Void Keys/defense Getting Old Fast.

[BoOz]

Am I the only one who is getting sick of farming defense missions just to stand a decent chance of getting a key for the void?

 

I realize that missions like capture and such have a possibility of giving a key but the chances are like less then 1% according to the wiki.

 

I enjoy doing defense here and there, but having that as the only mission type that can give you what you want is getting old very fast.

[Yomuntai]

you're not the only one, hang in there buddy.

[yam240499]

Am I the only one who is getting sick of farming defense missions just to stand a decent chance of getting a key for the void?

 

I realize that missions like capture and such have a possibility of giving a key but the chances are like less then 1% according to the wiki.

 

I enjoy doing defense here and there, but having that as the only mission type that can give you what you want is getting old very fast.

I can feel your pain

[RoboDoge]

So what now? We need more void missions that will get boring fast?

 

 

This game need AI fixing, improving AI will improve gamplay overall.

[CeePee]

Void Prime weapons are rare and should be kept that way.

 

The game relies on you farming the weapons, making it actually take a few weeks just keeps you trying.

[BoOz]

You both are missing the point entirely. What I am saying is... I am tired of farming the same mission type over n over n over n over... I don't care that the keys are rare, what I care about is the fact that I can't run say.. a mobile defense, or capture, or raid, and have a chance at a key. There are other mission types that give a reward ie capture runs, yet its next to impossible to get a key from those.

 

Key drops from defense should be carried over to those mission types with the same chances for a key, maybe a little less of a chance considering you could speed run.. but having less then a 1% chance to get one from a capture mission, or whatever other mission type, is ridiculous.

Edited July 31, 2013 by BoOz

[A5PECT]

So what now? We need more void missions that will get boring fast?

 

Of course they'll get boring if you run them constantly. But there's at least some variety in mission types to do while farming in the Void, and that means you'll get bored of them less easily. Running for Void keys before that is only viable by grinding defense missions and becomes a chore no matter what you do.

 

This game need AI fixing, improving AI will improve gamplay overall.

 

That's a separate issue with a separate fix. Just because there's an overarching enemy design problem doesn't mean that other problems don't need their own solutions.

 

Void Prime weapons are rare and should be kept that way.

 

The game relies on you farming the weapons, making it actually take a few weeks just keeps you trying.

 

We're not talking about making it easier to get prime weapons or for them to take less time to farm for. We're fine if those two things stay exactly the same as long as we're not forced to do a single mission type just to get reliable access to the Void.

 

Running the first 5 waves of an endless defense mission takes half as much time as an equivalently leveled mission of another type, at most. I don't see a problem in bumping up the drop rates of keys a few percents in non-defense missions.

 

Edited August 1, 2013 by A5PECT

[Ceilous]

Of course they'll get boring if you run them constantly. But there's at least some variety in mission types to do while farming in the Void, and that means you'll get bored of them less easily. Running for Void keys before that is only viable by grinding defense missions and becomes a chore no matter what you do.

 

 

That's a separate issue with a separate fix. Just because there's an overarching enemy design problem doesn't mean that other problems don't need their own solutions.

 

 

We're not talking about making it easier to get prime weapons or for them to take less time to farm for. We're fine if those two things stay exactly the same as long as we're not forced to do a single mission type just to get reliable access to the void.

 

Running 5 waves of an endless defense mission takes half as much time as an equivalently leveled mission of another type, tops. I don't see a problem in bumping up the drop rates of keys a few percents in the latter.

 

i agree with you and the OP and maybe instead of Void Keys having a specific Mission why don't Void Keys just come in Tiers and you can pick the type of mission you want if that decreases drop rate of Prime weapons so be it but i have like 10 Void Keys for Raid and i don't even care about the rewards anymore i just want a different objective. (that sort of relates to the OP in the sense that once you do get Void keys you don't want to have to run the same mission just because thats the only key type you can get)

[Dasmir]

nightmare should have the same chance of a t3 defence of droping a key, so we can do others mission than just wave 5 defence insta quit pub game.avi

[RoboDoge]

i agree with you and the OP and maybe instead of Void Keys having a specific Mission why don't Void Keys just come in Tiers and you can pick the type of mission you want if that decreases drop rate of Prime weapons so be it but i have like 10 Void Keys for Raid and i don't even care about the rewards anymore i just want a different objective. (that sort of relates to the OP in the sense that once you do get Void keys you don't want to have to run the same mission just because thats the only key type you can get)

Because there is no profit for DE in this.

[Danakar]

How about a Void Key as an Alert reward? Would that make you happy? ;)

[A5PECT]

How about a Void Key as an Alert reward? Would that make you happy? ;)

 

By itself, no. If there isn't a Void key alert available (which would be a vast majority of the time), then everything goes right back to the one-note defense mission song.

Also, I'd rather DE avoid leaning on the crutch at is the alert system any harder. It's already trying to hold up far more weight than it should.

Edited August 1, 2013 by A5PECT

[Danakar]

Alright, what would you suggest then? :)

[A5PECT]

Alright, what would you suggest then? :)

 

I stated my suggestion above: equalize the efficiency of farming for keys between defense missions and non-defense missions.

 

Defense missions have roughly the same percent chance to reward void keys as other mission types of the same level. The problem is the first 5 waves of a defense mission can be completed much faster and at a more consistent rate than any other mission type. So bump up the reward rate of keys in non-defense mission types so they become roughly equal to defense missions in how many keys can be acquired over a given set of time.

 

Better yet, compensate for the lower keys over time provided by non-defense missions by giving certain enemies a % chance to drop keys when killed during those missions (in addition to the current chances of getting a key in the mission reward screen). Get a short mission thanks to the procedural level generator? You'll finish the mission more quickly, but have less enemies to kill and thus less of a chance to get a key from that particular mission. On the other hand, if you end up slogging through a marathon of a procedurally-generated level, you'll fight more enemies and have a higher chance to find a key in that run. This would normalize the efficiency of key farming across mission types, encourage players to not rush during non-defense missions (e.g. actually kill things), and deal with the high variance in non-defense mission completion times.

Edited August 1, 2013 by A5PECT

[Danakar]

Hmmm, alright. Never got a void key as a reward from another mission type. All the keys my clan got were through defense missions as far as I know.

 

Not too sure about them being drops from random mobs though as this would be pretty odd. Imagine a Grineer grunt running around with a Void Key. Their superiors would never allow such valuable items ending up there. 

 

So how about them being a potential drop from a boss? Would that be an idea? To me that could be a nice compromise. :)

[A5PECT]

Not too sure about them being drops from random mobs though as this would be pretty odd. Imagine a Grineer grunt running around with a Void Key. Their superiors would never allow such valuable items ending up there. 

 

So how about them being a potential drop from a boss? Would that be an idea? To me that could be a nice compromise. :)

 

I considered boss drops as a Void key source, and while I like the idea more than using the alert system it still doesn't sit well with me. For starters, it would restrict the solution to assassination missions. Then there's the fact that you're making bosses an even more significant farming source. Bosses are already the only way (short of platinum) to get warframes, and players have expressed plenty of frustration in having to farm them for blueprints. It's just another element that'll be trying to support more of the game than it should. I digress, being able to do either assassination missions or defense missions would be worlds better than the current situation; I just think there are even better ways to solve the problem.

 

I'll also admit it'd be extremely odd for standard enemies to randomly drop things like Void keys, but they're currently one of the less overloaded/overstressed farming sources. While they're still a major farming site (namely mobile defense missions), most of the pressure is focused on bosses, defense missions, and the Void. Another large part of proposing them as a key source is the potential to limit mission rushing by players. If anything, it's just a quick and dirty fix that wouldn't be too much work to implement in the short-term.

 

I suppose a more involved but lore-friendly fix would be secondary objective soccassionally leading players to acquiring a void key. "Void secondaries" would behave similarly to normal secondary objectives, but would have Void keys involved with the objective (void keys as raid targets, void keys as defense objectives, hostages that happen to be carrying a void key with them, collecting intel that reveals the location of a void key, etc.) as well as tougher enemies than the original mission.

 

Hmm, maybe have the chance of a "Void secondary" occurance be dictated by the amount of enemies killed during the mission...

Edited August 1, 2013 by A5PECT

[BoOz]

One of the reasons I brought this up was because of my personal favorites frame wise. With having the keys drop mostly from defense missions I feel that I am stuck with playing one of the frames that are good for those missions. The dilemna here is the fact that I do not like playing those frames as much as Ash, and Excalibur (both frames that do much better in captures, raids, etc...).

 

So basically with the new stuff being here I have literally just sat in one spot the entire time on a defense map spamming Bastille, and shooting crap as it gets caught in the web (this is not fun) in between doing runs with people in the new void missions. I would much rather have the option to run something else for keys to break the endless tedious cycle. The obvious choice would be Mobile Defense missions, but I would welcome other mission types.

Edited August 1, 2013 by BoOz