Gameplay Experience Is Being Ruined By Other Players

[nicopopolis]

A quick summary of how other players are ruining the experience for newer players

 

-Bringing over leveled gear to low level missions

-Rushing the mission

 

I've come to the conclusion that these problems are caused by three issues

 

-Drop rates cause people to run so many times that they no longer enjoy the mission

-People only want the new rewards, not a challenge

-The attempt to make content "challenging" is undermined by certain power combinations

 

To prove the point, look at how popular defense missions are, Infested in particular.  Take a Vauban and a Nova, they all come, get stuck in the screen, then get nuked, and all the delicious loot is in one spot.  No challenge, no skill, no gameplay required.  This is your current most popular mission, and most common scenario.  The only reason people are running any other missions is because they have to for the drops.

 

I've taken a long break from the game for updates 7 and 8, mainly because I hated the idea of having to join a clan so that I could progress in the game.  I still don't like the way certain things are implemented but at least it's easy enough to join a clan that already has all the research done at the moment.  Let me make one thing clear, I like playing the game with other people, it just seems that most people these days don't like playing the game.  This comes as I start playing again and the Captain Vor boss fight was redone.  It looks like it could be a really fun fight, but unfortunately there are two things that happen on this boss.  Either I take high-level gear which I could use to kill him by myself, or equip level-appropriate gear and join a group where someone has high-level gear and could kill him by themselves.

 

It seems standard to equip a max level Rush mod for players because if I don't there's no way I can keep up with other people even if they are stopping to kill every enemy along the way (usually with mass AOE skills).  If I need to gather materials, no one is willing to wait.  Even if they say they're there for the same materials.  They won't open storage containers or lockers, they won't kill enemies, they just rush the mission as I wonder where they think the drops come from.  Of course this leads to me being a jerk as well.  I can't tell you how many times on Psmalthe I found Control Modules from a crate or enemy and didn't bother marking or telling anyone because they just rushed to the boss.

 

From this I've discovered another problem that's become apparent due to the current situation.  If you play solo and are trying to level a pistol, you don't get affinity unless you use the pistol.  however if you play in a group, you get free affinity on all of your weapons, even if you stand around doing nothing.  I'm guilty of exploiting this as well by equipping a level 30 ember and then low level main, pistol and melee then joining a group and getting free affinity for low level gear.  I don't even care about cheesing it at this point because the only reason I'm even leveling that stuff is for mastery points, not because I ever intend to use it.  Or I equip a low level frame along with it and put on rush and Thieve'ss Wit and just look for materials while everyone else speeds through the mission and gets upset that I'm not keeping up.

[Mietz]

A quick summary of how other players are ruining the experience for newer players

 

-Bringing over leveled gear to low level missions

-Rushing the mission

 

I've come to the conclusion that these problems are caused by three issues

 

-Drop rates cause people to run so many times that they no longer enjoy the mission

-People only want the new rewards, not a challenge

-The attempt to make content "challenging" is undermined by certain power combinations

 

To prove the point, look at how popular defense missions are, Infested in particular.  Take a Vauban and a Nova, they all come, get stuck in the screen, then get nuked, and all the delicious loot is in one spot.  No challenge, no skill, no gameplay required.  This is your current most popular mission, and most common scenario.  The only reason people are running any other missions is because they have to for the drops.

 

I've taken a long break from the game for updates 7 and 8, mainly because I hated the idea of having to join a clan so that I could progress in the game.  I still don't like the way certain things are implemented but at least it's easy enough to join a clan that already has all the research done at the moment.  Let me make one thing clear, I like playing the game with other people, it just seems that most people these days don't like playing the game.  This comes as I start playing again and the Captain Vor boss fight was redone.  It looks like it could be a really fun fight, but unfortunately there are two things that happen on this boss.  Either I take high-level gear which I could use to kill him by myself, or equip level-appropriate gear and join a group where someone has high-level gear and could kill him by themselves.

 

It seems standard to equip a max level Rush mod for players because if I don't there's no way I can keep up with other people even if they are stopping to kill every enemy along the way (usually with mass AOE skills).  If I need to gather materials, no one is willing to wait.  Even if they say they're there for the same materials.  They won't open storage containers or lockers, they won't kill enemies, they just rush the mission as I wonder where they think the drops come from.  Of course this leads to me being a jerk as well.  I can't tell you how many times on Psmalthe I found Control Modules from a crate or enemy and didn't bother marking or telling anyone because they just rushed to the boss.

 

From this I've discovered another problem that's become apparent due to the current situation.  If you play solo and are trying to level a pistol, you don't get affinity unless you use the pistol.  however if you play in a group, you get free affinity on all of your weapons, even if you stand around doing nothing.  I'm guilty of exploiting this as well by equipping a level 30 ember and then low level main, pistol and melee then joining a group and getting free affinity for low level gear.  I don't even care about cheesing it at this point because the only reason I'm even leveling that stuff is for mastery points, not because I ever intend to use it.  Or I equip a low level frame along with it and put on rush and Thieve'ss Wit and just look for materials while everyone else speeds through the mission and gets upset that I'm not keeping up.

 

Its a problem of underlying gameplay systems, the game isn't being played for the gameplay but for the rewards that the slot-machine gives out periodically.

[Sammy001]

Its a problem of underlying gameplay systems, the game isn't being played for the gameplay but for the rewards that the slot-machine gives out periodically.

this.

You made some valid points, but putting the blame on the players isn't completely fair.

 

L'enfer, c'est les autres. Why dont you try to join a clan mate, what do you really have to loose ?

[scavenge]

I've NEVER used a rush mod so far AND I've almost always been one of the first 2 ppl to arrive at the boss in a boss run.

 

You're doing it wrong.

 

Also ofc ppl aren't going to stare at every room as if it was their first time 1000 runs down the road.

[Inez]

A lot of your problems can be easily solved thru two built in game features:

1. Friends list

2. Clan

Seeing as there are lots of other online games that have these same features, learning to use them now will enable you to enjoy many other online games.

[HolySoul77]

A quick summary of how other players are ruining the experience for newer players

 

-Bringing over leveled gear to low level missions

-Rushing the mission

 

I've come to the conclusion that these problems are caused by three issues

 

-Drop rates cause people to run so many times that they no longer enjoy the mission

-People only want the new rewards, not a challenge

-The attempt to make content "challenging" is undermined by certain power combinations

 

To prove the point, look at how popular defense missions are, Infested in particular.  Take a Vauban and a Nova, they all come, get stuck in the screen, then get nuked, and all the delicious loot is in one spot.  No challenge, no skill, no gameplay required.  This is your current most popular mission, and most common scenario.  The only reason people are running any other missions is because they have to for the drops.

 

I've taken a long break from the game for updates 7 and 8, mainly because I hated the idea of having to join a clan so that I could progress in the game.  I still don't like the way certain things are implemented but at least it's easy enough to join a clan that already has all the research done at the moment.  Let me make one thing clear, I like playing the game with other people, it just seems that most people these days don't like playing the game.  This comes as I start playing again and the Captain Vor boss fight was redone.  It looks like it could be a really fun fight, but unfortunately there are two things that happen on this boss.  Either I take high-level gear which I could use to kill him by myself, or equip level-appropriate gear and join a group where someone has high-level gear and could kill him by themselves.

 

It seems standard to equip a max level Rush mod for players because if I don't there's no way I can keep up with other people even if they are stopping to kill every enemy along the way (usually with mass AOE skills).  If I need to gather materials, no one is willing to wait.  Even if they say they're there for the same materials.  They won't open storage containers or lockers, they won't kill enemies, they just rush the mission as I wonder where they think the drops come from.  Of course this leads to me being a jerk as well.  I can't tell you how many times on Psmalthe I found Control Modules from a crate or enemy and didn't bother marking or telling anyone because they just rushed to the boss.

 

From this I've discovered another problem that's become apparent due to the current situation.  If you play solo and are trying to level a pistol, you don't get affinity unless you use the pistol.  however if you play in a group, you get free affinity on all of your weapons, even if you stand around doing nothing.  I'm guilty of exploiting this as well by equipping a level 30 ember and then low level main, pistol and melee then joining a group and getting free affinity for low level gear.  I don't even care about cheesing it at this point because the only reason I'm even leveling that stuff is for mastery points, not because I ever intend to use it.  Or I equip a low level frame along with it and put on rush and Thieve'ss Wit and just look for materials while everyone else speeds through the mission and gets upset that I'm not keeping up.

Agreed. but not entirely. When i craft a new frame, i always craft a new set of weapons for it, this almost gives that feeling of starting at mercury...but nothing will be the same ever again...because when the new frame reaches rank 10 i equip my high lvl redirection and BAM! wont die until rank 30...all those things that you said make sense but if you have friends to play with, specialy if all of you comunicate during the match, you can delete the jerk-rushers factor by 100% and have fun helping them to craft their gear and research some nice clan tech.

 

maybe this feeling that you have is caused by the really easy enemies and the overpowered skils and weapons right now in the game...also, after i got my shade, its impossible for me to die in a normal mission, so....yeah, the game is pretty easy and lacks storyline...but things will get fixed soon, i hope!

[BadAimbot]

When this game gets more popular I would support matchmaking based on how powerful players are (although judging that might be a bit tough). However when it comes to blazing through content that comes from no incentive to do harder content. Xini, while not exactly low level gives very similar rewards to the highest level Infested Defense, Palus, but has easier enemies so it gets done faster. I would also put some blame on how Warframe abilities are so easy to level, yet are supposed to be powerful enough to last the entire game. Unlike weapons, Warframe mods that boost abilities are not that significant in boosting their power (although indirect increases in power such as extra range certainly help).

[nicopopolis]

L'enfer, c'est les autres. Why dont you try to join a clan mate, what do you really have to loose ?

 

I did join a clan, in fact I kind of talked about that in my post.

 

A lot of your problems can be easily solved thru two built in game features:

1. Friends list

2. Clan

Seeing as there are lots of other online games that have these same features, learning to use them now will enable you to enjoy many other online games.

 

I never thought about playing this game with friends!  That's a brilliant idea!  Seriously, do you think I didn't consider this?

 

But even if you can find others that want to play the game the same way you want to you still have a number of issues:

-You have to be online at the same time to play together

-You need to have a similar goal while playing together

-You have to have a good connection with each other (since bad performance also ruins the experience)

 

I did join a clan.  I like the people in my clan.  But there's connection issues due to geography.  So despite the fact that I can find people that want to play the same way I do AND need to be doing the same things I'm currently doing AND play at the same time that I'm playing we unfortunately cannot play together.  The ones that I DO have a good connection with don't always play when I'm playing and aren't always doing what I need to do.  And yes, we do help each other with stuff we don't need but due to limited play time, not everything gets done.  I also have friends, but my friends aren't always on at the same time that I am regularly during the week.  So what now?

 

I've NEVER used a rush mod so far AND I've almost always been one of the first 2 ppl to arrive at the boss in a boss run.

 

You're doing it wrong.

 

Also ofc ppl aren't going to stare at every room as if it was their first time 1000 runs down the road.

 

And here's the comment from the token elitist player who didn't read the entire post.  Are you gathering materials?  Are you opening lockers and loot containers?  Are you hitting the side rooms where these things are abundant?  Or are you moving forward killing what's in front of you only?  Are you a new player or do you have high level mods that let you soak most damage?  Think about the new players who JUST started and what their very first boss fight is like with everyone farming for the Seer.  This has, does, and will continue to turn new players off of the game.

 

 

One last note, I did state at the beginning that I understand WHY players rush missions.  I'm not saying that the players are the cause of the problem,  but they are perpetuating it.  Rushing has been a long standing problem with the game and the developers have talked about it before.  Remember when it took only one person at extract to start the mission end countdown?  What I'm trying to get across a little bit is that they won't have to "fix" this problem if the community would stop the problematic behavior on its own.  But that won't happen so I'm providing some feedback here.

[DAWGUNITALPHA]

How is your gameplay experience more important than theirs?

[Relkin]

Well why play for a challenge when there is none to be had?  Once you hit a certain point everything is just a lulz fest as your waltz through missions like an unstoppable god of war come in flesh to the physical plane to play with these mortal playthings.  Sometimes you your playing T3 def or something and you just pointing at them for like 5-6 seconds at a time waiting for them to die yawning while your energy charges up because bullet sponges. 

 

The issue isn't really players man, it's a failure of the current game mechanics or lack thereof and the accompanying "AI".  

[Buzkyl]

The only was to stop rushing, is to give people a reason NOT to rush.

 

I rush, and often rush, i take my fastest frame run to objective, finish it then get to extraction.

 

 

Do i know that i may get in the way of new players? Yes and at times i do feel bad, but the main reason i rush( and i can assume other) are for this

 

-Finish mission to unlock next one and progress my map.

-I'm farming for warframe BPs and this ISN'T going to be the last time i'm doing this

-The boss drops *insert material here* that i need in large quantities, so i'm just being efficient.

-If i want to farm common/uncommon materials, i'll do defense missions, everything else is just another mission to be finish.

-I've seen the secret rooms, and i know each tileset thoroughly and the most efficient way around, and seeing how HEAVILY dependent droprates are on the RNG, rushing is just speeding up an already tiresome and boring process.

 

Go solo? While possible, not everyone should be forced to do so, because of the prefrence of others. If anything, DE should give people an incentive to slowdown. Because by the time a  new player finishes 2-4 planets, they've seen nearly every possible tileset, multiple times.

 

I'm not saying people should rush, but at the same time, what do i gain by slowing down?

 

If i see my team is rushing, i'll rush. If i realise i'm far ahead of my team, i'll wait awhile to let them catch up, at times.

[darkkterror]

Oh, gameplay experience is being ruined by other players?  Welcome to any online game ever.

[JamesSergon]

How is your gameplay experience more important than theirs?

 

...

 

Players, these days....  The point of Relkin wasn't even about its own gameplay experience.  He was pointing out how the actual game mechanics are encouraging rushing for wrong reasons and how it is starting to split the WF player base.

[JamesSergon]

Oh, gameplay experience is being ruined by other players?  Welcome to any online game ever.

Again, it's not directly players just ruining other players experience just for the sake of it.  That, there will always be.  The root of this issue belongs to the game's systems themselves.

[merial]

Maybe it's a simple case of having an option in ad hoc groups where individuals can choose rush, standard or no preference. I would prefer to enjoy the game but usually it's a case of keeping up and missing out on enjoying killing everything I see.

No play style should be denied as we all enjoy different things, we just need the ability to choose.

[Zeruel104]

I'll admit I started out as a person who would take things slow, look in all the nooks and crannies for mats, and generally have a good time taking my time. but as things progressed, and I started farming for WF BPs, I would get more and more frustrated at the number of runs I was having to do to get even one drop. so I started going faster and faster, until I discovered that I was just running through the levels just avoiding anything else but the boss...

 

it was a slow proscess, but it made me realize that everyone rushes once in  a while. mostly because their fed up with the RNG and are trying to minimize the time playing and still get the maximum amount of reward.

[nicopopolis]

I know the Devs are doing what they can on this issue, but the players don't seem to be picking up on the the fact that it is a problem.  I'll admit that the game design encourages sociopathic behavior.  But what happens after you get that new warframe blueprint, all the materials to make it and craft the thing?  People will generally do one of two things, make a complete set of gear and start playing as if they were level one all over again, or strap on a level 30 weapon and speed level their frame ASAP.  If you put on all level one gear, you most likely still enjoy playing the game and don't want to speed level your character, you want to have fun shooting enemies.  If all you do is speed level everything, what's the point?  When do you slow down and start enjoying the game again?  When is it time turn off the game and go do something outside?

 

And things have been done but it hasn't been made transparent.  They've changed the drop rates for example.  Try this exercise.  Go to any defense map and try opening all the loot containers and count the number of material drops you find.  Then do 5 waves and count the number of material drops.  Go to wave 10 and count again.  If you're farming for materials it's actually better to open all the loot containers, do 5 waves, the restart the mission.  This isn't an accident, this is by design.  This is the developers trying to get people to SLOW DOWN.

 

Why then are defense missions so popular?  Because on most of them, you get all the enemies coming into a choke point where you can spam warframe abilities and wipe out waves easily.  Is this efficient?  Yes.  Is it fun?  No.  Is actually running the mission for a drop 20+ times fun?  No.  Is fighting a new boss for the first time fun?  Not when you're group is farming it and everyone else has already established the "most efficient" or easiest way to defeat it.

 

I'll re-iterate, whenever a new player is experiencing the game, the experience is ruined by high level players who are farming or leveling their nth weapon or warframe with other max level gear equipped.   They can't solo, because when you solo, you don't get xp on equipment you don't actually use.  So HAVE to play in a group, which causes the problem.  People are consistently unaware of the drop rate changes so still believe the best way to get rare loot (such as neural sensors or control modules) is to speed run the boss, when run per run, you actually find it more often in a locker or loot container.  This behavior is contagious so either everyone starts following suite or gets fed up and quits playing.

[KoshLovesYou]

A lot of your problems can be easily solved thru two built in game features:

1. Friends list

2. Clan

Seeing as there are lots of other online games that have these same features, learning to use them now will enable you to enjoy many other online games.

 

If being able to ignore players and thus prevent them from joining a match you are in, or a match they are in, worked? Then that would help.

 

As it is, there isn't a way to filter toxic players. As Warframe gets more popular, sadly that also means your chance of running across toxic players even at higher levels will increase. This is even more frustrating when trying to get hard to find drops like Neurodes in tough areas, where just one or two players can rush to the end due to their warframe choice, and head to the exit without tagging the corpse or loot for players who are trying to just get past the wave of foes they can't avoid as easily. Other players get screwed out of everything too easily that way.

 

I've had this happen quite a few times to me in the past week; wanting to team up with others, only to be unable to avoid toxic players who were farming the same mission together. Theres just no way to avoid this aside from rush and scramble yourself, and honestly? That just isn't as fun, and leaves a bad feeling experience when you can't actually cooperate in a co-op game.

Edited August 3, 2013 by KoshLovesYou

[RoboDoge]

I dont understand why would any material farmer wanna go online mode. When i farm ferrite on m prime i dont wanna be annoyed or concerned by new players that hardly know the basics of the game ( i dont blame them to ). I am farming and i dont wanna any hindrances, so i go private or solo.

 

 

Why would anyone in their right mind go online is beyond my understanding.

Edited August 3, 2013 by RoboDog

[drakwon]

i love newbies with their excaliber/loki/volt frames running around with their bretons noobing it up they are so cute...I try to help them as much as possible because I like the game and with out the newer players coming in the game wont grow. Im guilty of rushing, but I dont do it if new players are in the group...I just check their health and shield levels. If they want to stop players with high level gear from rushing lower players missions they need to stop putting things high level players need in low level missions. What the devs need to do is create a much more user friendly interface for the social aspects of the game. People barley talk because the chat functionality is so clunky. There should be an automatic party window like every other online game that display health bars and such.

Edited August 3, 2013 by drakwon