A Couple Things That Need Some Attention

[Elhazzared]

I've been away from this game for a little bit and decided to start playing again a few days ago. A few things have changed, some great improvements noticed all across the board however there are 2 things I find that need some attention. One of them isn't really new, the other is so I'll start with the new first.

 

Forma - No, I will not go over polarisation not helping towards mastery. The problem with forma is in fact obtaining it. Now, if this was like catalysts which you really don't need that many and well, if you really need you can invest a very small amount of money which will give you more than you'll probably ever need. That would be fine. The problem is that Forma isn't used just for polarisation, it is used to build everything in the Dojo, even corridors! It is also used to build weapons after research.

 

Now at very least you need 7 of them just to build the dojo, 2 for cross shaped corridors, 1 for a reactor, 1 for the oracle and 3 for the 3 labs. Now add a few weapons, add polarisation and that is a lot of forma. Buying it from the market is just out of the question given the amounts you need of it and it's price.

 

So how do you obtain Forma?

 

Pay for it - This wouldn't be a problem if they were a lot cheaper given the fairly high number of them that you need. As it is however it's a huge waste of money.

 

Daily rewards - That means an incredible amount of luck necessary.

 

Alert rewards - Last I've seen in the foruns was like 9 or 10 days ago which means they are fairly rare as far as alerts goes, this also means that you see very few a mount, no more than two or 3 times a month for sure and you also have to be lucky to be in the game or at very least at the computer when it happens.

 

Orokin Void - You can obtain Forma from Orokin void mission however here is the deal. They are still fairly rare drops in there and to access the Orokin void you need Orokin void keys which in and of iteself are rare.

 

To gain Orokin Void keys you need to:

 

Pay for it - You get 5 keys, one of them rare for sure. The price for it is high though and there is no guarantee that Forma will drop in any of them, in fact they are fairly rare... Maybe compared to some other stuff that can drop it's not so rare, but at best some 12% chance is at the end of the day not likely to get you that many which coupled with the price of the void keys is not a good deal... Now there is other good stuff that can drop there and so that might balance the price of the keys... However this is about forma and not the rest.

 

Daily reward - Again, you need to be incredibly lucky here to get one and again, no guarantee of Forma once you complete it.

 

Rewards from completing missions - The sheer amount of luck you need to get a drop is mind stagering and even if you find a drop it's very unlikely for Forma to drop.

 

What we conclude from this is that Forma is highly needed and it's incredibly hard to get so DE want to monetise this needs hard which is wrong. So far DE has been fair (except on the glaive) with it's monetisation and this is indeed a black spot on their back... Now I understand that big clans will have no problems with this because either someone with money to waste will not mind buying them just to get the clan stuff going or due to sheer numbers and donations the Forma will be gathered quickly, after all hundreds of players playing daily are bound to trip on one here and there. However small clans will struggle as it happens in my case... Either Forma prices need to come down by a massive amount or drops become a lot higher or Dojo stuff starts not needing it as well as weapon building and Forma becomes only for polarisation which will then put it in a fair place as it is... What will be done to solve the problem (if anything will) I don't know but something needs to be done none the less.

 

 

As for the second problem I'd like to talk about mobile defense missions.

 

When it comes to the grineer map, be it against grineer or infested, these maps are incredibly hard to the point that the high level ones cannot be soloed or even done with just 2 people. This is just plain wrong when we talk about these missions being in the way to progress further down the line on the system... If they were at a dead end then fine, some content for multiplayer is indeed required. Barring players from access to other systems which may end up getting alerts is plain wrong.

 

Now while I speak only for myself I know some other people will identify themselfs with me on this situation. I don't like going into online matches. I like to play solo or with my friends only. It just so happens that at the moment I cannot get more than one person to play this with me and getting overrun by douzens of enemies make this missions completly impossible to complete and block my access to parts of a region.

 

This needs to be changed so that either mobile defense missions are severely toned down so that they can be done single player or so that they are put exclusivelly at dead ends so that they will not block the progress through a system.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Elhazzared

[truci4]

I play daily at xini and i get about 5 keys day. Got no problem to get free forma

[Destro6677]

You're not alone on the mobile defense thing.

 

Some veterans active on the forums have said they would be willing to solo any mission in the game with a low level/unranked frame except for mobile/ defense, because it's very difficult at Tier 3 and 4 planets.

[Elhazzared]

I play daily at xini and i get about 5 keys day. Got no problem to get free forma

 

I am not saying I doubt you. But I'll ask you this. How many players are there doing it with you? What wave do you have to go to in order to have a fair chance at a drop? Cause mostly I play solo.

[Lane]

Conclusion: Grind your a$$ off for Forma if you don't feel like paying! :p

[Azraill]

Honestly you can go solo IO with any frame and a good one-shot weapon upto wave 5 (with any frame, low or high level, so long as you have one fast-killing weapon.) and upto wave 10 and sometimes 15 with a frame designed for damage / defense missions. (Ember, Nyx, Vauban, Sayrn) 

 

Within the 5-10 range as often as you get mods your coming across Tier II void keys. Tier II Raid/Ex void keys have the best chance at getting you a forma. (12.65%)

 

In your general 5 hour gaming day, you should have obtained (easily) 10-20 void keys. Rough guess.

 

In a 5 hour gaming day you can have the 10-20 Void keys translate into 1-2 Forma's if your playing by the odds thus, you can have 10 Formas in roughly fifteen days +/- 5 based on overall luck. Not a bad deal, for free.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Azraill

[ShockCollar]

Considering a clan is supposed to be at the minimum I think around 4-5 people (which is what my clan is) just a group of friends. Each of us running a defense mission a few times a day nets us each about 4 keys. Thats 16 chances at forma. And the drop is rewarded to each of us. So even if we get 1 drop in a day thats still 4 forma. Considering how much it costs to build our Dojo was pretty much complete in a couple of days. I have 3 Forma BP's that I haven't gotten around to using. From what I understand, Getting forma alone is not particularly effective for larger quantities but with a group getting them isn't really all that difficult. 

[Elhazzared]

well yes the first 5 waves are ok, usually from there on it starts getting complicated with increasing levels and amount of ancients... I suppose I can try farming it for a bit once I get everything or as much as possible unlocked... Still the amount of grind I forsee towards Forma is just way too high.

[truci4]

I am not saying I doubt you. But I'll ask you this. How many players are there doing it with you? What wave do you have to go to in order to have a fair chance at a drop? Cause mostly I play solo.

 

At xini you got about 40~% to get a key at wave 5 (defense mission) and this wave 5 is easy to do even for a low lvl

Edited August 2, 2013 by truci4

[Elhazzared]

Alright I'll have to give this a few tries and see how it goes then.

[krisp]

Orokin void keys which in and of iteself are rare.

Stopped reading there. Orokin keys are quite easy to get, and if you have a clan (which you mention) then you can do group runs and if a key drops, you can now run the void mission 4 times in a row.

 

To say that orokin keys are rare is like saying you're having a hard time getting Nano Spores.

[Elhazzared]

Stopped reading there. Orokin keys are quite easy to get, and if you have a clan (which you mention) then you can do group runs and if a key drops, you can now run the void mission 4 times in a row.

 

To say that orokin keys are rare is like saying you're having a hard time getting Nano Spores.

 

Quoting from the wiki, the percentages seam to be absurdly low... And yes I'm in a clan of 3 people, one of them doesn't plays anymore and the other might give me a hand from time to time but not all the time cause he got bored of the game.

[Countess_Hapmuhr]

Quoting from the wiki, the percentages seam to be absurdly low... And yes I'm in a clan of 3 people, one of them doesn't plays anymore and the other might give me a hand from time to time but not all the time cause he got bored of the game.

 

There's your second mistake. The wiki is notoriously unreliable, I wouldn't trust those stats. Getting void keys isn't a cake-walk per se, but it isn't impossible either. As for forma, you can actually get those as blueprints too on T3 defense, it's rare, but it's there.

[Elhazzared]

So far I haven't noticed any unreliabillity on the wiki. All weapons and stats are there and are right, all frames and powers is there and it's right, all costs for everything there is right. So if the percentages for drop chances for void keys are wrong, they are about the only thing wrong... But I have to test further to see if it is easy or not to get them.

[krisp]

Quoting from the wiki, the percentages seam to be absurdly low...

Every 5 waves you have a chance at a key. You can also do 5 waves then stop, or do lower-level missions for tier 2 keys (which have about the same chance of dropping forma).

 

Being in a 3-people clan of which you're the only active player is not anyone's problem but yours. Don't expect to get very far with clan structures (and it's a bit unreasonable of you to have that as a basis for a complaint). I would recommend recruiting some other people, since if one forma drops in a group of 4 people, it drops for everyone.

Edited August 2, 2013 by krisp

[Elhazzared]

Every 5 waves you have a chance at a key. You can also do 5 waves then stop, or do lower-level missions for tier 2 keys (which have about the same chance of dropping forma).

 

Being in a 3-people clan of which you're the only active player is not anyone's problem but yours. Don't expect to get very far with clan structures (and it's a bit unreasonable of you to have that as a basis for a complaint). I would recommend recruiting some other people, since if one forma drops in a group of 4 people, it drops for everyone.

 

No it's not unreasonable in any sense. Solo players or players who play in very small clans and don't want to go into big clans or online mode and deal with whatever kind of people show up have a right at getting everything else that others do... Solo players aren't exactly a minority, there are a very significant number of such players and they shouldn't be punished because of they don't want to get into big clans or do online and deal with all kinds of people... In fact, solo and private play is there for a very good reason.

 

What is reasonable is that the game is not made any more difficult for such people than for people in big clans.

[krisp]

No it's not unreasonable in any sense. Solo players or players who play in very small clans and don't want to go into big clans or online mode and deal with whatever kind of people show up have a right at getting everything else that others do... Solo players aren't exactly a minority, there are a very significant number of such players and they shouldn't be punished because of they don't want to get into big clans or do online and deal with all kinds of people... In fact, solo and private play is there for a very good reason.

 

What is reasonable is that the game is not made any more difficult for such people than for people in big clans.

There is a clan for people who play solo. It's called The Lone Rangers. You can enroll in there and have all the access of a big clan while still soloing perfectly fine.

 

Clan technology is clan technology, meant to be a group effort by a pool of people and not easily accessible to soloers (though judging by what i said above, it kinda is). You're not entitled to all of the content just because you happen to be present at the login screen. That's not how games work.

[Elhazzared]

There is a clan for people who play solo. It's called The Lone Rangers. You can enroll in there and have all the access of a big clan while still soloing perfectly fine.

 

Clan technology is clan technology, meant to be a group effort by a pool of people and not easily accessible to soloers (though judging by what i said above, it kinda is). You're not entitled to all of the content just because you happen to be present at the login screen. That's not how games work.

 

Again this is plain wrong. I am entitled to all of the game content. Now if you tell me that there are specific game content in which you need a group to beat but whose rewards are nothing that couldn't be otehrwise attainable with the same amount of difficulty, then yes.

 

To treat a part of the database (which is not really that small I might add) as second class players is not a good game design, rather it is a big game flaw.

 

As for enrolling in other clans even if it's just for access to labs... No, again I don't want to be in other clans, I have my own which will serve for me and my friends to play with whenever we play... Again all players should have the same easy access to everything, this is a good principle that many games apply and those who don't will eventually start having problems.

 

Now shadow keys don't seam as rare as I previously thought but the forma none the less is since it doesn't drops that often. the of course there is the huge problem of DE's poorly made matchmaking which means that i can invite anyone to join me. But I can never join other people's sessions... Even today played with a friend, we got a void key. My key we both went in there. His key, I had no way to go with him cause I couldn't join his session which makes this all the more problematic.

[krisp]

Again this is plain wrong. I am entitled to all of the game content. Now if you tell me that there are specific game content in which you need a group to beat but whose rewards are nothing that couldn't be otehrwise attainable with the same amount of difficulty, then yes.

 

To treat a part of the database (which is not really that small I might add) as second class players is not a good game design, rather it is a big game flaw.

 

As for enrolling in other clans even if it's just for access to labs... No, again I don't want to be in other clans, I have my own which will serve for me and my friends to play with whenever we play... Again all players should have the same easy access to everything, this is a good principle that many games apply and those who don't will eventually start having problems.

 

Now shadow keys don't seam as rare as I previously thought but the forma none the less is since it doesn't drops that often. the of course there is the huge problem of DE's poorly made matchmaking which means that i can invite anyone to join me. But I can never join other people's sessions... Even today played with a friend, we got a void key. My key we both went in there. His key, I had no way to go with him cause I couldn't join his session which makes this all the more problematic.

"everyone should have the same easy access to everything" - rationale which does not in any way represent reality.

 

Some things are made to be rarer than others to encourage value. Some things are made so they're easier to get if you conform to a specific playstyle, to encourage various things (such as organized clans). This is not a new thing, nor is it unreasonable - diversity is what drives a game, and if you feel like the devs owe you every piece of content they create no matter how you happen to play, then you're simply delusional.

 

Threads like this always come up from time to time when a community gets big enough - people who judge things entirely from their warped perspective and expect to engage in obviously non-productive activities yet still have the same level of productivity as everyone else. Furthermore, they act as if they're owed this and there's some sort of injustice done to them that their 2-hour-per-week, only-play-with-one-hand playstyle (as an example) doesn't have the same amount of efficiency as everyone else.

 

The answer, of course, is no, the devs won't cater to each and every player individually. Yes, there are some challenges which are meant to drive you out of your comfort zone and interact with a larger group to overcome. No, things won't change just because you cry injustice. And no, no one gives a S#&$ whether you *want* to do it as it's meant to be done. You don't put in the effort, you don't get the rewards. Or in Warframe's case, you get them slower.

 

As far as joining people is concerned, add them to friends (temporarily) and set the minimum ping to unlimited. That should solve most cases.

[Elhazzared]

"everyone should have the same easy access to everything" - rationale which does not in any way represent reality.

 

Some things are made to be rarer than others to encourage value. Some things are made so they're easier to get if you conform to a specific playstyle, to encourage various things (such as organized clans). This is not a new thing, nor is it unreasonable - diversity is what drives a game, and if you feel like the devs owe you every piece of content they create no matter how you happen to play, then you're simply delusional.

 

Threads like this always come up from time to time when a community gets big enough - people who judge things entirely from their warped perspective and expect to engage in obviously non-productive activities yet still have the same level of productivity as everyone else. Furthermore, they act as if they're owed this and there's some sort of injustice done to them that their 2-hour-per-week, only-play-with-one-hand playstyle (as an example) doesn't have the same amount of efficiency as everyone else.

 

The answer, of course, is no, the devs won't cater to each and every player individually. Yes, there are some challenges which are meant to drive you out of your comfort zone and interact with a larger group to overcome. No, things won't change just because you cry injustice. And no, no one gives a S#&$ whether you *want* to do it as it's meant to be done. You don't put in the effort, you don't get the rewards. Or in Warframe's case, you get them slower.

 

As far as joining people is concerned, add them to friends (temporarily) and set the minimum ping to unlimited. That should solve most cases.

 

 

Nope, it doesn't solves the issue, that's how I have it. I can host matches everyone can join me. I cannot join anyone, it always gives me session unavailable... But that's not really what this is about although it does have some impact towards it.

 

What I said and I belive I am correct is that just because you are part of a large group you shouldn't have things easy and those part of a small or solo have things hard. This is not an encouragement to a different style of play or anything of the sort. This is almost like saying. Go join a big clan or just spend a lot of money to get what you need and frankly this is wrong. Giving certain players beneficts just cause is never a good thing. If you say that a certain mission favors a specif type of warframe, sure. I see no problem with it because then some specific missions will favor mine, some will do the opposite.

 

While you do are right that people who don't put in the same effort or time shouldn't get as much stuff. The thing is is not about how much efforth is put in by the player. The thing is, a player doing things solo or with a friend will be at a severe disadvantage to build up their dojo because of the rate at which is humanly possible for them to attain forma. A big clan will just have hundreds of players and will get all the forma dirty quickly just because of those sheer numbers. This once again has nothing to do with how much efforth players put in... In a way it's like saying, let's have a tournament to see who is the best clan... Well duh, the ones with a lot of members are the only ones with a shot at it because you're not matching numbers to be fair, you're just allowing everyone to go in.

 

The Devs don't cather to individual players but just as I am voicing out these concerns, how many people do you think are in my position? There are a lot players who solo or play in very small groups. They are taking a huge hit here too and this I am sure bothers them as much as it bothers me. We are still a rather large chunk of the community, large enough not to be ignored by DE with these kind of decisions and quite frankly, it's decisions like that, that cost players and as such, customers.

[KiLoSphere]

Another Idea for Forma that I would like to see if purchasing with Plat. Forma Bundles. How about the more you buy the more you save?