Skill Trees suggestion

[Torguish]

Bump :)

[Torguish]

Feedback anyone? :P

[herflik]

The bad point of the suggestion is the amount of the trees, also if everyone can have every tree it just make the warframe types useless at some point. Your warframe type should be specialized in given thing, thats why you pick it, just like a pokemon. You cant make water type out of pikachu only because you pay or grind lol. Thats why melee specialized/designed warframe should never be good at gunplay, that would just break the prupose of having different frames.

I would make simple 3 trees: offense, defense, utility. You can still spec alot if the trees are big enough like ~50 points each.

Additionaly to that make a tree that is "Ability" tree, where you modify all 4 abilities of your frame, or even have more than just 4 abilities.

Each tree should have limitations too, like giving 3 good choices, but you can pick only one, and the other two become blocked even if you have the points to spend.

For example you spend 5 points on the "common" bonuses to abilities and then you got to pick 1 out of 3 big ones (lets say for Ash):

1)Throw 5 shurikens in spread, lower the range and damage of the ability.

2)Teleport automaticly cast charge attack with increased charge damage.

3)Smoke bomb (or what was the name) break shields of enemies.

You pick one, then spend another 5 points on common and again pick one good one, or you can always spec only in the common ones.

There always will be cookie-cutter builds as long as there is customization, only perfect balance will make them wanish, and thats almost impossible to do.

Edited February 11, 2013 by herflik

[Torguish]

The bad point of the suggestion is the amount of the trees, also if everyone can have every tree it just make the warframe types useless at some point. Your warframe type should be specialized in given thing, thats why you pick it, just like a pokemon. You cant make water type out of pikachu only because you pay or grind lol. Thats why melee specialized/designed warframe should never be good at gunplay, that would just break the prupose of having different frames.

I would make simple 3 trees: offense, defense, utility. You can still spec alot if the trees are big enough like ~50 points each.

Additionaly to that make a tree that is "Ability" tree, where you modify all 4 abilities of your frame, or even have more than just 4 abilities.

Each tree should have limitations too, like giving 3 good choices, but you can pick only one, and the other two become blocked even if you have the points to spend.

For example you spend 5 points on the "common" bonuses to abilities and then you got to pick 1 out of 3 big ones (lets say for Ash):

1)Throw 5 shurikens in spread, lower the range and damage of the ability.

2)Teleport automaticly cast charge attack with increased charge damage.

3)Smoke bomb (or what was the name) break shields of enemies.

You pick one, then spend another 5 points on common and again pick one good one, or you can always spec only in the common ones.

There always will be cookie-cutter builds as long as there is customization, only perfect balance will make them wanish, and thats almost impossible to do.

And the bad part about YOUR trees is simply no customization what so ever. You right away go amd point out your problem with the tree even tho there is none. I mean really. Warframes are not pokemon, they are space ninjas, literally. It's been said by the devs and by the community.

Also, the reason behind the reason why I want multiple trees is simple: YOU WANT TO PLAY YOUR WARFRAME YOUR WAY.

How am i making different warframes like this? I don't see it. You play a Warframe because you like it's skill, appearence and how it co-ops with the skills you use. You are only suggestion a larger system from what we have now and right now, it sucks.

Also, the CURRENT system gives a much easier way in making other warframes useless. HOW SO? Think about it, while pretty much everyone has the same tree, the main thing in this game is killing. And i can say, Excalibur is a lot better at killing than let's say... Trinity. When will you understand that people will never look for a certain warframe? They want customization and freedom in modification and playstyle.

With this specific system, Warframes will still be played how they are meant to be played. Wether it being stealth or head-on. If you want a full stealth group, your system would simply suggest that trinity can't go stealth like Ash because of he can't be leaning towards stealth, because he's a support type Warframe.

Let me explain to you this in pokemon terms:

I am not trying to change the TYPE of pokemon, rather it's style in battle.

- You CAN teach pikachu to fight in the dark by physical damage only.

- You CAN teach hitmonlee to throw sand in someones eye, or maybe even use a GUN.

- You can ''train'' your Pokemon into being a space ninja, while utilizing the same skills he already has, wether he being a lightning or water type pokemon. He can use those abilities in both Stealth AND Head-on battle, this only depends on how you TRAIN your pokemon.

So as you see, you failed to interpret the system i'm brining. You assume this will change the essence of these Warframes which is only based on their SKILLS, not TALENTS.

And also, if thats a big problem to you, how is not Ash using a huge hammer not? I mean, you can put 2 miniguns on Blastoise or give him Uzis, now can you?

Examples:

-When i pick Ash, i like to be aggressive, not stealthy. I like to disappear while IN battle, get into cover and throw shurikens from a blind angle. Even tho, Ash is suppost the ''Stealthy''.

-When i pick Excalibur, i like to be stealthy, using my Blade Dash for multiple, silent takedowns or blinding enemies and taking them down before they can react. Even tho Excalibur is suppost to be more ''Head-on''.*

So sorry, i don't see it as a ''problem''. I see a lot more problems in your system, since it will generate cookie cutter build a lot more easily since there is next to NO reason in trying new builds.

And ps: This game is pretty much pure grinding, that's exactly why you grind. To modify your Warframe and be more powerful. I'm giving more of a reason to grind.

[herflik]

And the bad part about YOUR trees is simply no customization what so ever. You right away go amd point out your problem with the tree even tho there is none. I mean really. Warframes are not pokemon, they are space ninjas, literally. It's been said by the devs and by the community.

Also, the reason behind the reason why I want multiple trees is simple: YOU WANT TO PLAY YOUR WARFRAME YOUR WAY.

My tree still have decent customization, possiblity over 200 nodes where you can pick only 30. So your argument is totally out of...

Your tree have problems...

1) To make so many trees, for every waframe (remember new ones will be probably added all time), developers will need lot of time to balance them, plus making them. You need to make realistic requests or you will end up with many superb small trees where there wont be any customization at all.

2)If you make all the trees the same for every frame, meaning less work, realistic work, it will totally remove diffrence between all frames except ofc just 4 abilities. So thats failure of customization too.

3)Every idea got flaws, if you think your dont (and you state that), then you cant really give good feedback. Everything got cons and pros, if you want to give good suggestion try to present both sides of it comparing to current system.

4)Warframes resemble pokemon archetypes alot. Support, elemental types, stealth, tank, and probably new archetypes in future. Every frame got its own role and if you take it away by giving "do what you want", you remove the touch that developers give to the frames. You should be able to customize your frame, but within some boundries of "style". Like I wrote, when there is melee oriented frame its just dumb to give it possiblity to be master at guns, why would the melee oriented frame exist in first place then?

How am i making different warframes like this? I don't see it. You play a Warframe because you like it's skill, appearence and how it co-ops with the skills you use. You are only suggestion a larger system from what we have now and right now, it sucks.

You suggest basicaly only larger system too, so what are you talking about? You just add more sectored structure, with sems dumbed down alot. You can basicaly put any "bonus/skill" under offense/defense/utility, you dont really need any more trees unless you make it for someone who get loost in toilet OR if you want to overhelm developers with additional work.

Also, the CURRENT system gives a much easier way in making other warframes useless. HOW SO? Think about it, while pretty much everyone has the same tree, the main thing in this game is killing. And i can say, Excalibur is a lot better at killing than let's say... Trinity. When will you understand that people will never look for a certain warframe? They want customization and freedom in modification and playstyle.

With this specific system, Warframes will still be played how they are meant to be played. Wether it being stealth or head-on. If you want a full stealth group, your system would simply suggest that trinity can't go stealth like Ash because of he can't be leaning towards stealth, because he's a support type Warframe.

You just counter argument yourself. Firs you say its bad that trinity cant deal damage as excalibur, then you write your system wont really change anything since everything will be limited anyway to given playstyle. Make up your mind maybe?

I want to keep style as it is, I wont support people who pick Trinity thinking it will be damage dealer (lol). Thats not bad design, thats bad logic behind user that play the game. If people dont look at given warframe it just mean its abilities are weaker than other frames and need buff, or people are just bad at utilizing given frame, or they just dont know what for there are frame types and then they whine.

I want customization and freedom too, but like I wrote, realistic for developer to make within boundries of playstyle of given frame. Totall freedom wont work well in this game, so I hope you dont mean that.

Let me add counterargument to your lower statements.

Let me explain to you this in pokemon terms:

I am not trying to change the TYPE of pokemon, rather it's style in battle.

- You CAN teach pikachu to fight in the dark by physical damage only. Pikachu would hit like a girl comparing to brute strenght pokemon, thats why you shouldnt spec him like that, he wont be muscular no matter what you do.

- You CAN teach hitmonlee to throw sand in someones eye, or maybe even use a GUN. Guns are not really a pokemon battle style, so shouldnt really be taken in account, also basicaly eveyr pokemon can throw stuff so thats not unique enough to be restricted to single type.

- You can ''train'' your Pokemon into being a space ninja, while utilizing the same skills he already has, wether he being a lightning or water type pokemon. He can use those abilities in both Stealth AND Head-on battle, this only depends on how you TRAIN your pokemon. Stealth snorelax, I want to see it man. Also head-on battle with magikarp, yeah that would be nice to see, splash, splash. You can utilize some skills, but you will be always restricted by some boundries, totall freedom is only in elder scrolls game and such.

So as you see, you failed to interpret the system i'm brining. You assume this will change the essence of these Warframes which is only based on their SKILLS, not TALENTS.

And also, if thats a big problem to you, how is not Ash using a huge hammer not? I mean, you can put 2 miniguns on Blastoise or give him Uzis, now can you?

Examples:

-When i pick Ash, i like to be aggressive, not stealthy. I like to disappear while IN battle, get into cover and throw shurikens from a blind angle. Even tho, Ash is suppost the ''Stealthy''.

-When i pick Excalibur, i like to be stealthy, using my Blade Dash for multiple, silent takedowns or blinding enemies and taking them down before they can react. Even tho Excalibur is suppost to be more ''Head-on''.*

So sorry, i don't see it as a ''problem''. I see a lot more problems in your system, since it will generate cookie cutter build a lot more easily since there is next to NO reason in trying new builds.

And ps: This game is pretty much pure grinding, that's exactly why you grind. To modify your Warframe and be more powerful. I'm giving more of a reason to grind.

First off, every system that allow customization will create cookie-cutter builds, so stop talking b.... ok? Your system will do it more greatly, because it give bigger customization with is much harder to balance for developers. Higher customization is nothing bad, but it require tons and tons of work to make it even work. Again be realistic at suggestions.

I really didnt failed to interpret your system at all, you just act like it dont have any flaws, and I already wrote about that.

Ash is more melee weapon oriented, as I know hammer is still melee oriented so its within his playstyle. Additionaly current stealth game still need lot of fixes to work well and be in some place, so first wait for that. Now you cant really talk about anything being stealth based.

Again guns and pokemons really dont fit each other, its like talking about Warframe using cards from yu-gi-oh to fight lol.

Play ashe aggresive instead of stealthy and hide in cover? Wasnt hiding being stealthy and non-head-on or did I miss something?

Head-on means you jump into 10 enemies and massacre them like berserk with gignatic sword, mopping the floor with them, not hiding with little shuriken behind cover.

Exaclibur is jack-of-all-trades for me, he isnt really the head-on guy, Rhino is more head-on guy in this game.

By the name excalibur I would think he is melee oriented similary to Ash, but more tanky rather than stealthy, still he isnt superb tanky comparing to Rhino.

Like I said, probably few times already, you can put EVERYTHING you came up with in offense/defense/utility or even a single tree if you want.

Depends if you want dumbed down sectioned to max tree or overhelming gigant like Path of Exile. I would go into the middle of the ground, you want to go to partition everything to max on the other hand.

Edited February 11, 2013 by herflik

[Torguish]

My tree still have decent customization, possiblity over 200 nodes where you can pick only 30. So your argument is totally out of...

Your tree have problems...

1) To make so many trees, for every waframe (remember new ones will be probably added all time), developers will need lot of time to balance them, plus making them. You need to make realistic requests or you will end up with many superb small trees where there wont be any customization at all.

2)If you make all the trees the same for every frame, meaning less work, realistic work, it will totally remove diffrence between all frames except ofc just 4 abilities. So thats failure of customization too.

3)Every idea got flaws, if you think your dont (and you state that), then you cant really give good feedback. Everything got cons and pros, if you want to give good suggestion try to present both sides of it comparing to current system.

4)Warframes resemble pokemon archetypes alot. Support, elemental types, stealth, tank, and probably new archetypes in future. Every frame got its own role and if you take it away by giving "do what you want", you remove the touch that developers give to the frames. You should be able to customize your frame, but within some boundries of "style". Like I wrote, when there is melee oriented frame its just dumb to give it possiblity to be master at guns, why would the melee oriented frame exist in first place then?

You suggest basicaly only larger system too, so what are you talking about? You just add more sectored structure, with sems dumbed down alot. You can basicaly put any "bonus/skill" under offense/defense/utility, you dont really need any more trees unless you make it for someone who get loost in toilet OR if you want to overhelm developers with additional work.

You just counter argument yourself. Firs you say its bad that trinity cant deal damage as excalibur, then you write your system wont really change anything since everything will be limited anyway to given playstyle. Make up your mind maybe?

I want to keep style as it is, I wont support people who pick Trinity thinking it will be damage dealer (lol). Thats not bad design, thats bad logic behind user that play the game. If people dont look at given warframe it just mean its abilities are weaker than other frames and need buff, or people are just bad at utilizing given frame, or they just dont know what for there are frame types and then they whine.

I want customization and freedom too, but like I wrote, realistic for developer to make within boundries of playstyle of given frame. Totall freedom wont work well in this game, so I hope you dont mean that.

Let me add counterargument to your lower statements.

First off, every system that allow customization will create cookie-cutter builds, so stop talking b.... ok? Your system will do it more greatly, because it give bigger customization with is much harder to balance for developers. Higher customization is nothing bad, but it require tons and tons of work to make it even work. Again be realistic at suggestions.

I really didnt failed to interpret your system at all, you just act like it dont have any flaws, and I already wrote about that.

Ash is more melee weapon oriented, as I know hammer is still melee oriented so its within his playstyle. Additionaly current stealth game still need lot of fixes to work well and be in some place, so first wait for that. Now you cant really talk about anything being stealth based.

Again guns and pokemons really dont fit each other, its like talking about Warframe using cards from yu-gi-oh to fight lol.

Play ashe aggresive instead of stealthy and hide in cover? Wasnt hiding being stealthy and non-head-on or did I miss something?

Head-on means you jump into 10 enemies and massacre them like berserk with gignatic sword, mopping the floor with them, not hiding with little shuriken behind cover.

Exaclibur is jack-of-all-trades for me, he isnt really the head-on guy, Rhino is more head-on guy in this game.

By the name excalibur I would think he is melee oriented similary to Ash, but more tanky rather than stealthy, still he isnt superb tanky comparing to Rhino.

Like I said, probably few times already, you can put EVERYTHING you came up with in offense/defense/utility or even a single tree if you want.

Depends if you want dumbed down sectioned to max tree or overhelming gigant like Path of Exile. I would go into the middle of the ground, you want to go to partition everything to max on the other hand.

1: There is no Melee oriented Warframe, they have spezialazation in a certain area but they all have A sword, Guns and the ability to move like ninjas.

2: They all have stealth capabalities.

3: They all have their unique skill set which helps them to get around differently.

4: That's why i said: More easy to generate a blast-through cookie cutter build. This system HAS been done before and it DOES give players the possibility to play like they want, without any problems you stated. RIFT.

5: This system does not change your Warframe, it only enchances is in the direction you want to. Since, you know.. they can all use Guns, Swords, Stealth(Broken, but still.), Elements (In swords and weapons etc..), Ninja-like movement AND if you have the correct MODS you can make yourself a tanky Warframe.

The only things Warframes have ''spec'' are playstyles like:

Tanky (Endurance)

Stealth

Support

Elemental & Physical damage.

But HOW you play them is still different like so:

Do you use skills, swords or guns for stealth kills? Do you like elemental damage more than physical? Do you have to play a supportive role or can you just heal yourself more effectively? Do you have to use guns/swords? Maybe you want to be more ninja with increased running speed and better wallrun/slide skills? Or tanky? Or stealthy? or elemental..-ly?

There is no melee Warframe, Gunner Warframe. You can play them already how you wan't but the lack of innovation in the current system does not really make you want to try out new stuff. If you prove me wrong, i will go and cry in corner.. :(

6: This does not ''take away the devs touch'' and also; Isn't that for the devs to decide, again?

7: Again guns and pokemons really dont fit each other, its like talking about Warframe using cards from yu-gi-oh to fight lol.

You didn't get the point at all.. didn't you. I said you CAN teach a pokemon to use these things by not changing it's core essence, element. You can teach a pokemon different ways in countering certain situations.

My point shortly: You can win a fight with a water type pokemon against electric type pokemon. If that was their weakness, don't remember much about pokemon. That's my point.

8: The reason I think behind ''oriented'' warframes is simple: the skills. It's up to you how to use them. Right now, with your tree a stealth run including Rhino because ''it doesn't feel like and he doesn't fit in.''.

9: Ash is a stealth-based Warframe, not melee. If he was a melee oriented, how come i see other Ashes blast in with guns blazing? I just... don't get it.

10: The main style still would be from the skills. And when you start, you can only play with the default trees. Which with later on, you can modify if you buy and/or farm more spec chips. This can give you the full extent with that specific Warframe.

*

Examples:

You want to solo runs correctly with let's say... Trinity. But it's more of a solo Warframe, you can't because it's a support, it's made for Supporting. With multiple trees you can play like YOU want. You can make a stealthy trinity, head-on tanky trinity, melee trinity, gunplay trinity, ELEMENTAL NINJA TRINITY.

Again, you wan't to play a bit more stealthy but you play Rhino. What do you do, you buy or grind yourself a new warframe? I think just no.

11; How does your system prolong the game? I mean, when you get bored with your Warframe, what gives you a reason to play with him again if you can't change the style of play in a way?

I'm getting bored as hell of Excalibur. I would like to try him out more diversly.

While yes, i think the system i'm suggesting needs a lot of balancing, throwing in things like Pokemon, the stupid 'it's too much work for the devs'' arguments. If you can prove me wrong i will lift my hat to you.

Also, rather than trying to shove your own idea here, while this is MY suggestion i'd like a way to make it better and more fitting, since balance in this game is rather imporant.

With this i'm looking for this:

-More diversity in Warframes.

-Don't get bored so easily.

-Better chance of playing with friends when they want to do eg.. Stealth run but you want to play Rhino.

- Allow fully free customization

- More reason to grind.

If you want to you can make your own Skill tree suggestion you know.. :D Or, like i said before, explain your idea fully and i will put it up there with YOUR nametag, we can discuss balancing etc.

Yes, i'm an extremely aggressive debater, please excuse me if i have offended you any way but i think this is a lot of fun.. D:

Edited February 12, 2013 by Torguish

[neKroMancer]

From the example of ME3 system - some of the best designed kits in the game isn't flashy but relied on higher utility. Customizing said utility powers can change the way player play his game without creating large customization system.

Turian sentinel is one of the most versatile, highly customizable kit in ME3MP : 2 passive skills, 2 active powers, one toggle power. Players are given enough points to fully upgrade 4 powers which means they have to choose what they want out of the kit before playing. He can tank, CC, debuff enemy, buff weapon damage. He's one thing that MEdev did right in term of kit design since players have to choose which aspect to excel.

All choices should be equally attractive - well-designed tree lower the tendency of cookie cutter build from emerging, lower the developing budget, lessen the need to balance things regularly thus more free time to polish/make new content.

While I enjoy your idea, I don't think that it's realistic enough for DE to implement in the current game structure. It feels like it's a whole new game instead of Warframe. I think all we need is well-designed skill trees and removal of mod slots from the tree.

[Torguish]

From the example of ME3 system - some of the best designed kits in the game isn't flashy but relied on higher utility. Customizing said utility powers can change the way player play his game without creating large customization system.

Turian sentinel is one of the most versatile, highly customizable kit in ME3MP : 2 passive skills, 2 active powers, one toggle power. Players are given enough points to fully upgrade 4 powers which means they have to choose what they want out of the kit before playing. He can tank, CC, debuff enemy, buff weapon damage. He's one thing that MEdev did right in term of kit design since players have to choose which aspect to excel.

All choices should be equally attractive - well-designed tree lower the tendency of cookie cutter build from emerging, lower the developing budget, lessen the need to balance things regularly thus more free time to polish/make new content.

While I enjoy your idea, I don't think that it's realistic enough for DE to implement in the current game structure. It feels like it's a whole new game instead of Warframe. I think all we need is well-designed skill trees and removal of mod slots from the tree.

This is what i'm talking about. This i understand. Thank you Mr.

And i know where yer coming from but all one can do is hope.. :) I wanted to throw in an idea and that's basically what i did.. :D Altho remember, i still think mods should stay in things like Guns & Swords but Warframes should get rid of them.. :)

But yeah, i know it's a bit far fetched t othink DE would implement a system like this but i hope.. maybe someday.. :D

[neKroMancer]

And i know where yer coming from but all one can do is hope.. :) I wanted to throw in an idea and that's basically what i did.. :D Altho remember, i still think mods should stay in things like Guns & Swords but Warframes should get rid of them.. :)

Based on the assumption that weapon trees are going to be the same. What if the weapon tree also modified into 30/45 system?

[KyleOne]

Added support. It would be fun to see trees and/or some really clear milestones to look forward to. Good thread.

[Torguish]

Based on the assumption that weapon trees are going to be the same. What if the weapon tree also modified into 30/45 system?

Whatever works, as long as it can be balanced correctly, i will check it out. For weapons i only want a progression system since i think, a sword is always a.. well.. sword. :P

Added support. It would be fun to see trees and/or some really clear milestones to look forward to. Good thread.

Thank you! :)

[Torguish]

bump

[Torguish]

bump

[Disthe]

Hey! I almost forgot this one.

The skill tree currnetly is rough, dunno if update 7 brings what kinds of change to that.

Anyway, the suggestion is a great step of skill tree. Players should feel struggle(thats a good feeling) to collocate the skill point, and 'skill boost' indeed need to be various. From the main branches to sub branches sometimes in parallel, the skill tree resonance - fantastic!

I didn't see any reasons not to support such good suggestion. Devs gotta consider this.

[Torguish]

Hey! I almost forgot this one.

The skill tree currnetly is rough, dunno if update 7 brings what kinds of change to that.

Anyway, the suggestion is a great step of skill tree. Players should feel struggle(thats a good feeling) to collocate the skill point, and 'skill boost' indeed need to be various. From the main branches to sub branches sometimes in parallel, the skill tree resonance - fantastic!

I didn't see any reasons not to support such good suggestion. Devs gotta consider this.

Aye, i get this might change the game a lot tho so i get why some people might find this threatening.

I just think every warframe should be used to their full potential in many other ways. With this we could achieve this, so you could do Stealth runs easier with Rhino etc. :)

[KyleOne]

I'd like to support the idea that the forums are EXACTLY for us to think big and be honest. We should say what's fun from our primal fun center. In my business, the worst thing a client can do is assume they know what can be done. They SHOULD lay all thoughts on the table and let us figure it out-- it's our pleasure to do so and to be successful.

One of the posts above me had an idea--or I thought this was what he was saying--to have upgraded spells. THAT sounds fun. Maybe shoot 2 or 3 ash stars and spec into that. Maybe some sort of turret on Volt's shield and people can spec into shield for silly fun. Or a chain effect on Nyx's confuse. Or remove the resource cost of a utility spell like Excalibur's jump.

[Torguish]

I'd like to support the idea that the forums are EXACTLY for us to think big and be honest. We should say what's fun from our primal fun center. In my business, the worst thing a client can do is assume they know what can be done. They SHOULD lay all thoughts on the table and let us figure it out-- it's our pleasure to do so and to be successful.

One of the posts above me had an idea--or I thought this was what he was saying--to have upgraded spells. THAT sounds fun. Maybe shoot 2 or 3 ash stars and spec into that. Maybe some sort of turret on Volt's shield and people can spec into shield for silly fun. Or a chain effect on Nyx's confuse. Or remove the resource cost of a utility spell like Excalibur's jump.

Well i suppose so..

If someone wants their idea up on this pages OP then make a good explanation.. :P

Like i said, i want to eliminate the chance of there being multiple same gamestyle warframe players. I wan't there to be a lot more diversity. This system can be tweaked and like i said, it's a very raw version of what i'd like to see.. ^^

[erebus2075]

i really don't see the need for this..

i really like the simplicity of the skill system as it if now.

i do however feel that skills need some changes to be more effective at their field, as it stands now you rarely got a need for anything then your "ultimate skill".

the fact you get locked in place for a good 1-2 second when using skills makes you extremely vulnerable when using a skill so it better have a very high effect, which most of them doesnt.

i would suggest looking at all skills, buffing/changing them and allow movement while you use skills,this would fix what is needed there.

making huge and complicated "skill trees" is useless when there is only 4 skills, it's pretty much a wasted of developement time which should be used on better things.

and constraining people with such a system would be even worse, and it very fast becomes a constrain more then an additional and welcome choice :)

at least thats how i feel

Edited February 19, 2013 by erebus2075

[Torguish]

i really don't see the need for this..

i really like the simplicity of the skill system as it if now.

i do however feel that skills need some changes to be more effective at their field, as it stands now you rarely got a need for anything then your "ultimate skill".

the fact you get locked in place for a good 1-2 second when using skills makes you extremely vulnerable when using a skill so it better have a very high effect, which most of them doesnt.

i would suggest looking at all skills, buffing/changing them and allow movement while you use skills,this would fix what is needed there.

making huge and complicated "skill trees" is useless when there is only 4 skills, it's pretty much a wasted of developement time which should be used on better things.

and constraining people with such a system would be even worse, and it very fast becomes a constrain more then an additional and welcome choice :)

at least thats how i feel

I don't see how do you contrain people with this system? O_O

Oh well, can please them all :D

[plznohurtme]

Weighing this game down with skill trees which quite frankly appear in pretty much every single "RPG" of any sort is a waste of time for everyone involved. While I do think more customization would be good I also think that basing it off of the current design is a far better way to go. If you played prior to update 6 when they did the first revamp of the warframes then you know the general direction they seem to be taking. The current system of getting mods and updating everything as you go seems to be pretty straight forward and okay. The basic health/shield mods are rather plentiful and the rarer mods that change the way your warframe behaves (power duration/strength) are harder to get, but they're not a barrier towards play, just a barrier to becoming "more powerful".

By spreading out the current skill models the way that they already did they opened up the opportunity to choose what ranks of what ability you get and how many mod slots you acquire. I think that a further extention of that would be a far better direction to go.

Generally speaking what I'm thinking of is having more abilities available to each warframe above and beyond the current 4 that each is limited to. However allow players to only acquire 4 of the skills at any given time, which would be pretty easy to limit by just spreading out the abilities far enough. I do understand that for whatever reason people want to specialize their warframe to suit what they want to do, but in the long run that just takes away from additional future warframes being developed. The more customization offered to the current frames just means something that they have to be careful with in the future because they don't want too much overlap. Going with this I think that they're going to find a way to balance out the casters who all basically do the same thing... stack range and AE defense missions down entirely. The more balancing they're able to do with change up the way that people play the frames as a general rule.

Right now it's pretty easy to make a melee frame if that is what you want to do, and otherwise setup for abilities. The only thing that isn't currently in is the ability to buff your gunplay, but honestly from everything I've seen the gunplay is very well balanced and buffing it would just be silly. The only thing you really can't specialize much in is making a stealthy warframe, but I think that might be something they look into in the future. The Loki and Ash are somewhat stealthy, but they're really limited in stealth and I think it wouldn't be too hard to have a warframe that is setup predominantly with stealth abilities and have it be effective.

Comprehensive skill trees are great for a lot of games, and I understand the appeal, but for this game and the direction that it appears to be going in I just don't think that it makes sense. It seems that what DE wants to do is end up having a lot of different warframes as time goes on (think maybe similar to heros in LoL) and having skill trees is directly counter to this.

[Torguish]

Weighing this game down with skill trees which quite frankly appear in pretty much every single "RPG" of any sort is a waste of time for everyone involved. While I do think more customization would be good I also think that basing it off of the current design is a far better way to go. If you played prior to update 6 when they did the first revamp of the warframes then you know the general direction they seem to be taking. The current system of getting mods and updating everything as you go seems to be pretty straight forward and okay. The basic health/shield mods are rather plentiful and the rarer mods that change the way your warframe behaves (power duration/strength) are harder to get, but they're not a barrier towards play, just a barrier to becoming "more powerful".

By spreading out the current skill models the way that they already did they opened up the opportunity to choose what ranks of what ability you get and how many mod slots you acquire. I think that a further extention of that would be a far better direction to go.

Generally speaking what I'm thinking of is having more abilities available to each warframe above and beyond the current 4 that each is limited to. However allow players to only acquire 4 of the skills at any given time, which would be pretty easy to limit by just spreading out the abilities far enough. I do understand that for whatever reason people want to specialize their warframe to suit what they want to do, but in the long run that just takes away from additional future warframes being developed. The more customization offered to the current frames just means something that they have to be careful with in the future because they don't want too much overlap. Going with this I think that they're going to find a way to balance out the casters who all basically do the same thing... stack range and AE defense missions down entirely. The more balancing they're able to do with change up the way that people play the frames as a general rule.

Right now it's pretty easy to make a melee frame if that is what you want to do, and otherwise setup for abilities. The only thing that isn't currently in is the ability to buff your gunplay, but honestly from everything I've seen the gunplay is very well balanced and buffing it would just be silly. The only thing you really can't specialize much in is making a stealthy warframe, but I think that might be something they look into in the future. The Loki and Ash are somewhat stealthy, but they're really limited in stealth and I think it wouldn't be too hard to have a warframe that is setup predominantly with stealth abilities and have it be effective.

Comprehensive skill trees are great for a lot of games, and I understand the appeal, but for this game and the direction that it appears to be going in I just don't think that it makes sense. It seems that what DE wants to do is end up having a lot of different warframes as time goes on (think maybe similar to heros in LoL) and having skill trees is directly counter to this.

By far the best feedback i've recieved in this forum.

And also, that last sentence took all motivation away from which i want to continue this thread anymore :( Specially since i pretty much agree with everything you said..

Oh well, i'll keep this here for it is a suggestion and some people like it and i will keep modifying it for the better (hopefully).

Also for this threads defence, remember that this is a RAW version of this whole thing, i do plan on changing things but right now i'm focusing on the Bow thread because it's probably happening.. :D I mean really, DERebecca said that ''It's not in the game (yet)!''.. And asked me personally to keep up the thread.

Anyways, thanks again, you are awesome! :)