endless mission rewards really needs rebalancing on all tiers

[SpacewalkerX]

there are still some rewards that are almost worthless, even to new players. For example, 15 Endo for 5 or 10 waves of defense is a terrible reward.

also, common mod rewards in the later stages of the starmap are also not really rewarding at all, since anyone that have reached that point will probably have lots of that mod already

if a reward for a mission is something that have been obtained multiple times during the same mission, then it is probably a bad reward.

[(PSN)KingGuy420]

There has to be booby prizes. If you were getting something good every single time, there'd be no chase and games like this are addicting because of the chase.

Destiny 2 made their drop tables more consistently rewarding and killed the chase, look at the state that games in thanks to that.

[SpacewalkerX]

i really have no idea what you mean by booby prizes.

as for the rewards in destiny 2. I was under the impression that one of the more common complaints were people often getting rewards that were worthless to them

i am saying that even if you dont get the reward that you are after, you should still get something that is worth more than one common drop.

[(PSN)KingGuy420]

9 minutes ago, SpacewalkerX said:

as for the rewards in destiny 2. I was under the impression that one of the more common complaints were people often getting rewards that were worthless to them

The more common complaint from the more hardcore players is that they had everything they wanted in a week and no reason to keep coming back... Cause Bungie killed the chase.

If you're getting something good every time, it makes it less exciting when you get something good. It's the thrill of the chase that keeps people coming back. All those crap prizes make it that much more rewarding when you finally do get something. It's that feeling that adds to the addictiveness of the genre of loot games.

[SpacewalkerX]

it does not need to be good, just worth the effort of doing 5 waves of defense, or 5 minutes of survival.

you are likely to get those rewards several times over before you even reach 5 waves or 5 minutes

[HeroOfTheWarframe]

I think @SpacewalkerX isnt wrong. A good drop is a relic in my opinion or 400 endo. Those 2 things arent super good and you need a loot of them before you got everything that you want from them. So its not to much to give the player those kind of stuff. And not a mod thats worth nothing.

[(PSN)El_Senior_Fats]

4 hours ago, SpacewalkerX said:

i really have no idea what you mean by booby prizes.

as for the rewards in destiny 2. I was under the impression that one of the more common complaints were people often getting rewards that were worthless to them

i am saying that even if you dont get the reward that you are after, you should still get something that is worth more than one common drop.

The main problem with Destiny 2 is that everyone now gets a fancy reward for doing absolutely nothing, and that everyone can get any loot no mater if you are a casual who plays 1 hour a week or a hardcore player who plays 100 hours a week

And the main reason why after 800 hours of Destiny 2 I stopped playing because of how pointless and meaningless rewards became, everyone gets a rewards no matter what, thats the D2 attitude now. Dont try to make this game anything like Destiny 2 please... 

And this is coming from someone with over 8000 hours in Destiny 1

Basically, you get easy loot, less special the loot becomes and less addictive the game is, perfect for the casual players bad for the hardcore player, who is, in the end, who keeps the game going, Destiny 2 is ruined for the hardcore player, a heaven for the casual player

Edited January 30, 2018 by (PS4)El_Senior_Fats

[Daster95]

vor einer Stunde schrieb (PS4)El_Senior_Fats:

The main problem with Destiny 2 is that everyone now gets a fancy reward for doing absolutely nothing, and that everyone can get any loot no mater if you are a casual who plays 1 hour a week or a hardcore player who plays 100 hours a week

And the main reason why after 800 hours of Destiny 2 I stopped playing because of how pointless and meaningless rewards became, everyone gets a rewards no matter what, thats the D2 attitude now. Dont try to make this game anything like Destiny 2 please... 

And this is coming from someone with over 8000 hours in Destiny 1

Basically, you get easy loot, less special the loot becomes and less addictive the game is, perfect for the casual players bad for the hardcore player, who is, in the end, who keeps the game going, Destiny 2 is ruined for the hardcore player, a heaven for the casual player

don't you think that there is also the opposite true?

if it's barely rewarding at all and you don't get anything useful out of it after running 500 minutes of survival or 500 rounds of defense then it would rather turn players new and old away because they basically don't get any reward for the time and work they put in?

[(PSN)El_Senior_Fats]

3 minutes ago, Daster95 said:

don't you think that there is also the opposite true?

if it's barely rewarding at all and you don't get anything useful out of it after running 500 minutes of survival or 500 rounds of defense then it would rather turn players new and old away because they basically don't get any reward for the time and work they put in?

So you go to 500 rounds, from doing 2 rounds to 500 rounds?

I said if rewards come easy then people will lose the incentive to play it, easy rewards does not mean 500 rounds on defense in my opinion 

And I still agree with what I said, while rewards should be more "rewarding" the more complex the mission gets (for example, the longer you stay in survival, defense, etc) it should never be easy like he was suggesting. Which is exactly what I said, if you want good loot, stay for longer, when things start to get complicated then you start seeing better rewards, not right at the beginning. 

Main reason why I stopped playing D2, man you can even get rewards without even playing it, just log in, collect them and log out... and I am talking about proper rewards, like exotics, raid gear etc... what incentive is there? 

[Daster95]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb (PS4)El_Senior_Fats:

So you go to 500 rounds, from doing 2 rounds to 500 rounds?

I said if rewards come easy then people will lose the incentive to play it, easy rewards does not mean 500 rounds on defense in my opinion 

And I still agree with what I said, while rewards should be more "rewarding" the more complex the mission gets (for example, the longer you stay in survival, defense, etc) it should never be easy like he was suggesting. Which is exactly what I said, if you want good loot, stay for longer, when things start to get complicated then you start seeing better rewards, not right at the beginning. 

Main reason why I stopped playing D2, man you can even get rewards without even playing it, just log in, collect them and log out... and I am talking about proper rewards, like exotics, raid gear etc... what incentive is there? 

I am already doing that to Warframe most of the time because there is just no incentive really, the relic Rare rewards seem to be lower than 10% on radiant relics, the AABC endless rotation system is an insult to players dedicating their time to endless missions. I AM not saying you should be showered with Forma, platinum and Orokin Reactors, but 15 endo is just more like patronizingly telling me "Next time you're gonna get something worth your time *wink* *wink* *nudge* *nudge*"

[(PSN)El_Senior_Fats]

I agree with you in that aspect, Warframe can get boring after a while, we need more content as missions are repetitive enough but... for someone like me who has been playing for only a couple of months is still fine, I still need to do raids and try other stuff, still have some weapon to go through, builds to try, etc. 

But I would appreciate more content, but not necessarily more drops, although I do agree that drop rarity should increase the harder into the mission you are, or the harder the mission is, however, if you are doing a dark sector that is giving you 15 endo maybe you should try harder difficulty ones, where you can get 400 endo instead of 15. If you are getting 15 is because you are doing a level 9-15 mission, which is very low level, try a level 25-35 where drops are better, said this, drops wont get better the longer you stay, hence why people only stay for 2 or 3 rounds, because there is really no point in staying any longer, which is a shame, introducing better rewards for those who stay longer would be an incentive, but by longer I dont mean 5 rounds, I mean 10, then 20, then 30, etc..,. 

[Himenoinu]

11 hours ago, Daster95 said:

don't you think that there is also the opposite true?

if it's barely rewarding at all and you don't get anything useful out of it after running 500 minutes of survival or 500 rounds of defense then it would rather turn players new and old away because they basically don't get any reward for the time and work they put in?

Is it? So what would you have as rewards, if relics are not reward enough (seeing how before fashionframe, the end goal of new players is prime gear), what would you want in those survivals that would also make sense lore-wise and mission-type wise? :D

From my point of view the rewards tables do need adjustmets, yes, but in the direction of being more relevant towards the activity (e.g: you're diggin' for artifacts - you get endos and relics, you defend warframe cryopods - you get cash and mods, you intercept - you get again cash and rare mats related to the planet you're on, survivals would give again cash and some chance for faction related blueprints or components). But the rarity shouldn't increase with repeated rotations (you get buffs to everything every 5 minutes, round, etc, anyway).

10 hours ago, (PS4)El_Senior_Fats said:

I agree with you in that aspect, Warframe can get boring after a while, we need more content as missions are repetitive enough but... for someone like me who has been playing for only a couple of months is still fine, I still need to do raids and try other stuff, still have some weapon to go through, builds to try, etc. 

But I would appreciate more content, but not necessarily more drops, although I do agree that drop rarity should increase the harder into the mission you are, or the harder the mission is, however, if you are doing a dark sector that is giving you 15 endo maybe you should try harder difficulty ones, where you can get 400 endo instead of 15. If you are getting 15 is because you are doing a level 9-15 mission, which is very low level, try a level 25-35 where drops are better, said this, drops wont get better the longer you stay, hence why people only stay for 2 or 3 rounds, because there is really no point in staying any longer, which is a shame, introducing better rewards for those who stay longer would be an incentive, but by longer I dont mean 5 rounds, I mean 10, then 20, then 30, etc..,. 

Chewing through the content like it's the last day on Earth does have this side effect. Now thing is, for someone with 8k+ D1 hours, how little repetition did the action there have to keep you hooked for a hell lotta time? Content with no background story might be suited for some games, but I think adding content here for the sake of adding content would be disastruous to the Warframe's universe. Also, adding content before the current one has been cleared of stains and lacking features would just mean an even smaller chance for the latter to get its chance to shine (looking at both syndicate tasks - with their bland, generic theme/context and mechanics - and especially archwing missions, lacking in everything, from tilesets variety or navigation, to rewards and overall integration in both the game's narrative and players' routine activities)

Further on, I completely agree to that. Doing Akkad for roughly the same rewards available on Mars - both in Endos amount (not that people care about endo rewards there) and relics age - feels weird, However I disagree with the reset. every round you finish you get an extra "reward" in the form of a buff - affinity, currency, resources and drop chance - right? I also understand that there were events that were particularly rewarding long endless missions runs with what is now, for us, very rare stuff (such as the Ignis Wraith blueprint).

I think that any kind of ramping up the rewards could lead to the game being flooded with more powerful gear (which doesn't sound right, at all - just look at the difference between the once rare mod "Body Count" and the now continuously available "Drifting Contact"), or would pontentially put a serious dent in the game's economy (if the high tier rewards would be sellable, like dropping a chance for Meme Strike on the 5th repetition of an A-B-C cycle and such) or, which would be even worse, focus the whole attention on those few missions that give you the highest chance to get one step closer to the Orokin's mentality (and, probably, fate). The latter was what is usually happening to all MMO games, where the whole community just hovers around the latest introduced instance, event, etc, leaving a whole universe deserted.

At best they could increase the amount of common currency-type rewards. 500 credits? 15 endos? With our space mother being enthusiastic about it "Look what our operative just found!!". The only rewards that are fitting for the task we're performing are probably in the Derelict Survival.

So in the end, I'd say that yeah, I think the rewards for the endless missions need to be looked at a bit (and by a bit I mean thoroughly), but for the most part, they're in need of having their drop location redistributed and the credit rewards increased (what am I supposed to do with a 3k credits when pushing my mod to the next tier requires 1.5M?). Adding new, better rewards on top of the already existing buffs and better C rotation rewards wouldn't work well for us in the long run.

[(PSN)El_Senior_Fats]

2 hours ago, Himenoinu said:

Chewing through the content like it's the last day on Earth does have this side effect. Now thing is, for someone with 8k+ D1 hours, how little repetition did the action there have to keep you hooked for a hell lotta time? Content with no background story might be suited for some games, but I think adding content here for the sake of adding content would be disastruous to the Warframe's universe

It kept me hooked for almost 3 years, grinding for the perfect weapon roll, challenging myself, soloing raids, etc. Also a lot of crucible, trials etc. There was a lot of repetition of course, I had over 1200 raid completions just on 1 account so imagine how much time I wasted doing that, and raids were a weekly event, not a daily one like in warframe.

When you say content with no backgroup story, are you referring to warframe? because after almost 500 hours in warframe I still dont know what the story is about

[Himenoinu]

1 hour ago, (PS4)El_Senior_Fats said:

When you say content with no backgroup story, are you referring to warframe? because after almost 500 hours in warframe I still dont know what the story is about

Well, I lose interest in a game that just gives me stuff to kill mobs without a good reason to do that or a place for me in that universe. Warframe has a wonderfull universe and a story that can go so many ways! D1 and onward, D2 has some generic enemies and enemy clones (kinda like the grineer, only more bland) from what vids I saw and a story that the devs gave up on or packed it full with cliches just for the eye-candy.

Now warframe content, in my almost 3 months of playing, keeps dropping with bits and pieces connecting the dots that form its story and lore. I noticed people have no problem chatting over the small transmissions going on in story missions and I'm pretty they're not interested in reading the stories we have in Simaris' room, or even the codex entries.

Once at the end of everything story related that the game currently offers I wanted MORE. So I digged into all the events that happened before my time in Warframe. And now, although I know the general idea of some of those, I'd love to play through them even if the only reward I'd get would be a codex entry :D

[HeroOfTheWarframe]

vor 16 Stunden schrieb (PS4)El_Senior_Fats:

introducing better rewards for those who stay longer would be an incentive

I made a topic last week about this. I dont agree with you that it makes little sense to stay for longer than 10/15 min/waves/... . Staying for 20 min/waves/... makes much sense because there are 3 reward tables and at wave 5 and 10 you get something from table A at wave 15 you get something from B and on 20 you get something from C (most of the time A is bad reward B is better and C is the best). And then it repeats but it only repeats so you dont get better stuff. Its the same like restarting the mission exept that its harder and if you do defence missions it even takes longer to kill a waves so you get less reward per time played.

If you want to know what would be my solution for this problem her is the link to my topic:

 

[(PSN)El_Senior_Fats]

1 hour ago, Himenoinu said:

Well, I lose interest in a game that just gives me stuff to kill mobs without a good reason to do that or a place for me in that universe. Warframe has a wonderfull universe and a story that can go so many ways! D1 and onward, D2 has some generic enemies and enemy clones (kinda like the grineer, only more bland) from what vids I saw and a story that the devs gave up on or packed it full with cliches just for the eye-candy.

Now warframe content, in my almost 3 months of playing, keeps dropping with bits and pieces connecting the dots that form its story and lore. I noticed people have no problem chatting over the small transmissions going on in story missions and I'm pretty they're not interested in reading the stories we have in Simaris' room, or even the codex entries.

Once at the end of everything story related that the game currently offers I wanted MORE. So I digged into all the events that happened before my time in Warframe. And now, although I know the general idea of some of those, I'd love to play through them even if the only reward I'd get would be a codex entry :D

I will have a look but I honestly, two monthns into the game, mr 20 and I still have no clue of what is going on in warframe, most of the lore in Destiny 1 came out of grimoire but you still got a vague idea of what was going on by playing the normal missions, in my opinion, Destiny universe is far more complex than warframes, however, Destiny's story is badly told and makes little sense, shame you have to go to the grimoire to understand it, they could have made a great story but couldnt (most likely) or didnt. Destiny 1 evolved with every DLC, new bosses, more lore, again, shame they didnt connect it properly to the story line and that you had to go to grimoire for a better understanding but it was still there. Simple story if you understand the potential behind it.

Warframe some times feels like is just a bunch of planets with similar missions, similar scenarios (there are literally 6 or 7 types of missions repeated on every single planet) plus the assassinations, which in some cases involves the same boss (ie Vor). Now I am ot saying it is bad, but comparing it to Destiny makes little sense to me. And I really like Warframe but at this point I wouldnt mind more stuff that feels different somehow. 

Seems like the codex and grimoire are very similar approaches though. In all fairness I see many similarities between Destiny and Warframe, even some of the names are the same in both universes. 

I dont speak of Destiny 2, to me is just a huge dissapointment better left forgotten, I rather pretend it never happened tbh

[Himenoinu]

17 minutes ago, (PS4)El_Senior_Fats said:

I will have a look but I honestly, two monthns into the game, mr 20 and I still have no clue of what is going on in warframe,

That is mostly caused by picking up too early on gear hunt, with a pinch of youtube how-to's and by seeing the quests as just locks on the door to your desired location, warframe or weapon. Granted, some of the things going on in Warframe's universe were a bit puzzling for me (I'm new too, with a bit over 2 months and almost MR 20 :D). And until late, I couldn't figure out where they came from and why some things were happening. And the answer was, for me, all the events that happened between Warframe's launch and present day left no traces in the codex. Some quests feel like they try to hint at what has transpired but it doesn't work out too well for them.

Ha! I even made a suggestion some days ago for new players to be able to live the old events (just for the story, if nothing else), by collecting cephalon fragments in areas related to an event and accessing the mission upon completing one. Obviously, I would love them being chained actually, just so we can follow the events as they unfolded.

There are 3 ways I have gathered knowledge (in a rather pleasant way) playing Warframe. First was obviously focusing on the narrative during quests instead of eyeballing the quest marker while listening to some Arch Enemy. Then I discovered the stories in the imprints (those aditional scan targets offered by Simaris) and lastly, the stories tied to the warframes, be they in the trailers DE has put out or in the Codex.

So you could go, replay some quests, read a bit of lore, check youtube for them trailers and maybe even both the original concept and the end result for their other game, Dark Sector (which I'm considering playing as soon as Lotus will stop warning me about conflicts errupting all over and the balance of power being ever shifting). You might even look at Excalibur's Proto skin with different eyes.

[(PSN)El_Senior_Fats]

I see what you mean, you are totally right btw lol

 

But but judging by your comments I fear that the game content is event more locked out of the game than in Destiny 1 man! 

Anyway good tips, will follow your advice then ;)