Warframe Grinding, Farming & Rng

[RaianStar]

"I can't believe anyone is that unlucky" and "I have 5 copies of Streamline from the last week alone" aren't very good arguments for rare random drops. Warframe is a huge game. I expect there are ~34,000 players with luck so bad, they could run Xini 200 times and never see a Streamline.

Fully agree

[magusat999]

The grind doesn't bother me, since I have been playing grindy games since RPGs in the NES. As a matter of fact, I was sorely disappointed when some of my favorite franchise changed their system because of people whining about the grind. made those games contrived and kindergarten challenge at best.

 

In the case of Warframe, it isn't the grind that's a problem - it's the luck factor. The RNG is not nice and does not play fair. One person has 20 Focus mods and another has none after playing the same amount of games in the same area, or killing off Grineer by the thousands? That isn't "grind", that's imbalance and unrewarding.

 

One player mentiond how he has 5 Streamlines - well I have been playing for four months, and two weeks in I discovered I needed a Focus mod. I played specifically and maniacally only areas that are supposed to drop that mod and it only dropped last week. I have 3 Streamline, which came from Xini, and although I appreciate the Streamline mod I was looking for Focus. I've also been trying to get the Frost Prime BP - and I'm having the same problem - but plenty of people have Frost Prime; It brings to mind the question "Is the RNG really THAT RNG - or are there some Lotto-like "adjustments" to make it especially difficult depending on pre-determined factors?". (Lotteries throw out combinations that are too common according to their mathmatical calculations - so even they are not "random"). Does 5% drop rate become .005% because the system determines I need it more than someone else? It may not be so, but it feels that way - and that's way worse than grinding because you have little hope to get a reward for your efforts.

 

So all in all I don't mind grinding, but I'd like to see geting something out of it each time, and the higher level enemy you face the better the consolation prize should be. You might not get Streamline or Focus at wave x in Xini - but geting another Heated Charge as a booby prize is insulting and less than gratifying.

[Enguzrad]

Grind is not needed for challenge. Game can be challenging no matter the player's level and equipment.
But you are definitely right with that luck factor.

[JollierThanThou]

Where did you get that number and what on earth are you doing that you can't possibly find a streamline, Are you running missions that don't have a chance of dropping it?

I specifically mentioned Xini, because Streamline has a 2.21 percent chance to drop as a reward on tier 3 Grineer or Infested defense.

 

To put it another way, your chance of failing to get Streamline in one run is 97.79 percent. Your chance of failing to get one in 200 runs is 0.9779^200 = 1.15 percent. Warframe has 3 million players. If all 3 million ran Xini 200 times, you would see 1.15 percent of them--somewhere around 34,500--fail to get Streamline.

[philleapa]

I specifically mentioned Xini, because Streamline has a 2.21 percent chance to drop as a reward on tier 3 Grineer or Infested defense.

 

To put it another way, your chance of failing to get Streamline in one run is 97.79 percent. Your chance of failing to get one in 200 runs is 0.9779^200 = 1.15 percent. Warframe has 3 million players. If all 3 million ran Xini 200 times, you would see 1.15 percent of them--somewhere around 34,500--fail to get Streamline.

 

No matter how much math you use that doesn't explain the streamlines raining all over me.

[JollierThanThou]

No matter how much math you use that doesn't explain the streamlines raining all over me.

Sure it does. My math explains that there are approximately 2,966,000 players who have no trouble getting streamlines, and approximately 34,000 players who never see them. You're one of the 2.9 million. I'm one of the 2.9 million. The players who can grind Xini for 40 hours straight without seeing Streamline? Part of the 34,000.

 

You can't generalize your game experience to other players because the game experience is randomized.

[philleapa]

Sure it does. My math explains that there are approximately 2,966,000 players who have no trouble getting streamlines, and approximately 34,000 players who never see them. You're one of the 2.9 million. I'm one of the 2.9 million. The players who can grind Xini for 40 hours straight without seeing Streamline? Part of the 34,000.

 

You can't generalize your game experience to other players because the game experience is randomized.

 

Oh boy another useless argument, FYI streamline is one of the easiest mods to grab, the fact that we are talking about it being regarded as an end drop on xini and calculating everyone's chances of getting it there is just dumb, no matter how much you calculate no matter how much math you do, I simply do not care, Everyone i have met in the game has found the streamline mod and the only people that have never seen it are the ones that literally just finished tutorial and i am training them.

 

And if you wanna calculate the true number, did you take into account, that some people may have created trial accounts, or banned accounts or alt accounts. NO YOU DIDN'T!

If you want to calculate something at least do it right.

[JollierThanThou]

Oh boy another useless argument, FYI streamline is one of the easiest mods to grab, the fact that we are talking about it being regarded as an end drop on xini and calculating everyone's chances of getting it there is just dumb, no matter how much you calculate no matter how much math you do, I simply do not care, Everyone i have met in the game has found the streamline mod and the only people that have never seen it are the ones that literally just finished tutorial and i am training them.

 

And if you wanna calculate the true number, did you take into account, that some people may have created trial accounts, or banned accounts or alt accounts. NO YOU DIDN'T!

If you want to calculate something at least do it right.

So, you are saying no player can possibly have luck that bad?

[Paprika]

I'm that one guy complaining about not getting Streamline. My point is that I can't get to Xini until I get Streamline. Please don't tell me to just level up Vitality, Redirection, and Serration to farm Xini. If there's only one set of mods that's easy to obtain and utilize efficiently, there's something seriously wrong. The mod system was meant to bring in choice and variety. That didn't happen. 

[JollierThanThou]

I'm that one guy complaining about not getting Streamline. My point is that I can't get to Xini until I get Streamline. Please don't tell me to just level up Vitality, Redirection, and Serration to farm Xini. If there's only one set of mods that's easy to obtain and utilize efficiently, there's something seriously wrong. The mod system was meant to bring in choice and variety. That didn't happen. 

Can you run lower-level Infested or Grineer defense (e.g. Gaia, on Earth) to wave 15? You also get a 2.21 percent shot at Streamline that way.

 

(this is a workaround, not an endorsement of DE's decision to have rare random drops)

[Paprika]

Can you run lower-level Infested or Grineer defense (e.g. Gaia, on Earth) to wave 15? You also get a 2.21 percent shot at Streamline that way.

 

(this is a workaround, not an endorsement of DE's decision to have rare random drops)

I'm inept when it comes to shooters. I'm not afraid to admit this, and it might hurt the point I'm trying to make.

 

I've been playing all my games using traps and stealth only. If the game doesn't have that option, I don't touch it. This means I'm totally reliant on teammates for Defense. I usually just slink back into the position of support in situations like this. 

 

EDIT:

 

Just as a footnote, I don't like Defense. The fact that the closest thing to certain level progression is going through Defense just irks me.

Edited August 8, 2013 by Paprika

[RaianStar]

I posted the below idea that would ease the RNG (what does that even stand for anyway?) and generally mix up the style of gameplay.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/92024-enemy-mods/#entry1026253

[rksk16it]

I just wish there is an alternate way to get things, possibly token, if RNG is not helping you for long enough. I have played this game for quite a while now and have all the mods, all multishots, all nightmare mods except Blaze (I dont need that, so I didnt bother farming), etc.. but I still dont have Sanctuary mod for sentinel. Not that I need it badly, but I still need it, and I never seem to find it....

 

On the other hand, I once found a Flow on a random grineer melee mob on mercury.. MERCURY !!!!

[Bakercompany86]

RNG = Random Number Generator.

Basically, your loot drops are always a roll of imaginary dice.

[RaianStar]

RNG = Random Number Generator.

Basically, your loot drops are always a roll of imaginary dice.

Haha thanks ^^

I agree with having RNG however narrowing the field a little would help alleviate the RNG blues. After all, some people are just stupidly unlucky.

[Loswaith]

...

MMO means massive multiplier online which Warframe is. Being its f2p they need to make money. To do this they need to cut off fast progressions to attempt to make money. You won't get everything handed to you on a golden platter in a second here, let alone any f2p game.

By that sentiment it means World of Tanks, Mechwarrior online, and even TF2, Diablo, Path of Exile, Planetside and a bunch of other games are all MMOs.  Which clearly they arent.

 

Actually, if you break all containers in a mission on the Grineer galleon type, you will net around 100 plastids per run. Since I'm going for the Dojo weapons now (which are decidedly end-game) I've been trying out pretty much all the tilesets to see which one yields the most resources per mission. As for mods, unless you're seriously unlucky with the RNG you're never going to have to grind for those. But that of course assumes that a) You're not looking to max out the mods like Serration and such and b) That you're only combining mods of the same polarity.

Yes plastids are an uncommon resource as well, you only need some 4-6 drops to get a 100 of them, try doing the same for rare resources.  You can destroy 100s of containers, including the kills within those mission and get 0 rare resources (some are better or worse for this pending on the resource, O cells on saturn are the worst I've found to date), typically for some you only ever see them from boss missions (and even then you can not see them for long streches).

Edited August 9, 2013 by Loswaith

[Bakercompany86]

Haha thanks ^^

I agree with having RNG however narrowing the field a little would help alleviate the RNG blues. After all, some people are just stupidly unlucky.

 

 

That's exactly it.  The law of statistics would indicate that *eventually* you would get the drop you're after.  But then Murphy's Law says that you can also get screwed =)

[RaianStar]

That's exactly it.  The law of statistics would indicate that *eventually* you would get the drop you're after.  But then Murphy's Law says that you can also get screwed =)

Haha

[.hisoka]

Sure it does. My math explains that there are approximately 2,966,000 players who have no trouble getting streamlines, and approximately 34,000 players who never see them. You're one of the 2.9 million. I'm one of the 2.9 million. The players who can grind Xini for 40 hours straight without seeing Streamline? Part of the 34,000.

 

You can't generalize your game experience to other players because the game experience is randomized.

 

While you're not wrong, being in the 34,000 is a terrible experience. And while I'm not saying I'm in that small group, but I will say I've been grinding for a Seer pistol reciever the past three days, and in that time I've seen the Cronus bp drop about 4 times, the Seer bp about 3 times, I currently have 4 Seer pistol barrels, and I've gotten quite a few Morphics just from continuously killing Vor. I've also gotten quite a few rare mods just by continuiously running Vor, main ones I wanted being the three multishots and flow.

 

I mean, after one day I'm like, "That's fine, it's understandable". After the second it's like "Ok.. maybe it'll drop". And by the third day I'm pretty much tired of playing the game. While I understand what RNG is, I just think there needs to be a way to avoid the extremes, because all it does is make me not want to play.

 

I mean, just saying tough luck seems like the wrong approach, which is why I wish there was some way to fix this happening to other people, because honestly it's just terrible.

[SweepTheLeg]

I don't think that Warframe is the worst grind ever. Try Maple Story in which you need to kill 10,000 green mushrooms for pretty much no reason.

 

...but that does not mean Warframe doesn't have a grind. The difference between Warframe and MMOs is that in an MMO the level system goes much further so even if you're spending days or weeks doing one quest, you're continuously leveling. Level 30 isn't the world's most difficult level cap to reach and once your weapons/frame is 30, you're literally just doing the missions to get that one set of materials which occasionally drops.

 

The RNG isn't that bad, but when you're farming for uncommon materials, it can be tedious. Need 800 plastids? Yeah, it'll probably take you a few hours or so with the amount of Plastids being between ZERO a mission and like...60~ish or so.

 

There needs to be some other incentive besides just the materials to make farming/grinding even more worth it. More levels. More random events besides extra objectives or slight stage modifications. A 2nd Stalker. The Stalker's RPG party that comes for revenge. If players didn't quite know what to expect, doing all the normal missions would be a relief because there is always something that could come up to ruin your day. That can be frustrating, but more often than not its an additional degree of fun.

 

I don't think Rare mods should be less rare, just like Rare trading cards shouldn't be less rare. They would lose value.

[Zerointerupt]

I am on day 4 (albeit my days consist of 3-5 hours of play) of grinding for control modules and have yet to get one to drop.  I cannot tell you how sick I am of valefor and farming hyena..  As I have said in other threads I do believe this is by design as DE saw the possible profits from cutting the drop rate on materials and throwing them up in the market for purchase.  Now you'll get people that are so frustrated and sick of the grinding that they will fork over cash for plat just to make the stuff they want.   

[krisp]

Warframe isn't grinding. If you had to get to rank 10-11 to have access to content, THAT would be grinding.

 

This is weaksauce at best.

 

 

I am on day 4 (albeit my days consist of 3-5 hours of play) of grinding for control modules and have yet to get one to drop.

 

 

having a really hard time believing this - in 2 hours I can at LEAST get 1 control module from Hyena.

Edited August 9, 2013 by krisp

[Bakercompany86]

By that sentiment it means World of Tanks, Mechwarrior online, and even TF2, Diablo, Path of Exile, Planetside and a bunch of other games are all MMOs.  Which clearly they arent.

 

 

People are a bit confused on here by the term MMO.  For a game to be an MMO, the players must exists in the same instance at the same time.  Just 4 Tenno per match, does not an MMO make.

[Zerointerupt]

Warframe isn't grinding. If you had to get to rank 10-11 to have access to content, THAT would be grinding.

 

This is weaksauce at best.

 

 

 

 

having a really hard time believing this - in 2 hours I can at LEAST get 1 control module from Hyena.

really?  when I have to run the same maps ad nauseam to gather materials isn't that the definition of grinding??  Believe it or not I don't care, but this is my current reality.

Edited August 9, 2013 by Zerointerupt

[Bakercompany86]

Warframe is definitely grindy....no doubt about that.