A Serious Talk About Corrosive Projection

[Silvershadow66]

any word on this? I'm very curious about how useful corrosive projection is in a party, but i don't personally have it. My one friend who plays this game a lot insists on foolish things like rifle amp, enemy radar and steel charge all the time, so it'd be difficult for me to test.

 

I feel like 2 energy siphon and 2 corrosive projection would be a good loadout, though.

 

My clan tried this out last week, T3 defence definitely seemed easier and with 2 ES it was simple to keep Snow Globe up continuously.

[SirSlayer]

Just tested this now.

For starters yes it does stack up to "armor ignore" heck with 4 people you can get >100%.

Yes more than "armor ignore", at some point it will amplify your attacks.

 

I'm not sure how it triggers but it didn't seem to work all the time.

My guess is "protected" parts get the negative multiplier (amplifier).

 

 

This might be THE alternative to E-siphon.

Edited August 9, 2013 by SirSlayer

[Definitegj]

Just tested this now, to prove you all wrong.

For starters yes it does stack up to "armor ignore" heck with 4 people you can get >100%.

Yes more than "armor ignore", at some point it will amplify your attacks.

 

I'm not sure how it triggers but it didn't seem to work all the time.

My guess is "protected" parts get the negative multiplier (amplifier).

 

Anyways,

this might be a nice alternative to E-siphon or atleast to the 4-E-S meta.

 

 

 

 

EDIT:

Please test some highlevel content with 3/4 corrosive and proper weapons (which do not ignore armor).

Ogris/Supra comes to mind ;)

 

So summary is you start out to prove us wrong but in the end prove us right?

[SirSlayer]

So summary is you start out to prove us wrong but in the end prove us right?

No actually I meant "you" as in that one guy who went: "it only goes up to 100%". :(

 

This aura makes your guns useful at high-end content. I would like to try it a bit more.

Edited August 9, 2013 by SirSlayer

[Definitegj]

No actually I meant "you" as in that one guy who went: "it only goes up to 100%". :(

 

This aura makes your guns useful at high-end content. I would like to try it a bit more.

 

Nice, this means that with 4 corrosive projection aura, the higher level we go, the higher non-armor ignoring weapon get boosted while armor ignoring weapon damage stay flat.

 

That irony, I love it.

 

Wait, wouldn't there be a point where the damage formula will go haywire?

Edited August 9, 2013 by Definitegj

[iValianT]

Since I use Torid which is serrated damage surprisingly making the elementals ignore armor too , energy siphon 4lyfe <3

Edited August 9, 2013 by Gingka2k10

[Tragixx]

Wait, wouldn't there be a point where the damage formula will go haywire?

 

In a way, yes. Once you get above 100% armor reduction, you should see an increase of damage, meaning an unmodded gun would do more than base damage.

 

I really want to see this, though. It seems like most people get almost there, and say "yeah, this is what should happen."

 

Armor is working as intended.

 

Armor scaling, yes. 

 

Should corrosive projection stack additively, up to 120%? maybe. That's where I want to ask a dev.

 

 

Since I use Torid which is serrated damage surprisingly making the elementals ignore armor too , energy siphon 4lyfe <3

 

No, each elemental damage should get ran though the damage formula, and suffer armor penalties, damage multipliers, etc.

 

Unless they're ticking on an unarmored location? But that's a different discussion.

 

 

 

My clan tried this out last week, T3 defence definitely seemed easier and with 2 ES it was simple to keep Snow Globe up continuously.

 

As the person who usually plays Frost in T3 def, unless you're spamming your other abilities, I don't see why you wouldn't be able to keep Globe up the entire mission without Siphon. (Assuming max Flow, Streamline, Continuity, Constitution) 

Edited August 9, 2013 by Tragixx

[Definitegj]

In a way, yes. Once you get above 100% armor reduction, you should see an increase of damage, meaning an unmodded gun would do more than base damage.

 

I really want to see this, though. It seems like most people get almost there, and say "yeah, this is what should happen."

 

 

 

Damage Scale = 100/( 100 + Armor Value * Armor Scale[your corrosive projection])

 

Damage increase when [Armor Value * Armor Scale[your corrosive projection]] =0 to -100

 

but

 

What happen when [Armor Value * Armor Scale[your corrosive projection]] = get more negative than -100?

Edited August 9, 2013 by Definitegj

[Ailia]

Lets put it this way, at 120%, high level ancients die in a single shot from anything due to the scaling reversal. There is a single problem though, at the point where damage after armor is less than 1, damage remains 0 even after corrosive, meaning you STILL hit the point where non-ignore damage is usless against stupid high armor foes.

[Tragixx]

Lets put it this way, at 120%, high level ancients die in a single shot from anything due to the scaling reversal. There is a single problem though, at the point where damage after armor is less than 1, damage remains 0 even after corrosive, meaning you STILL hit the point where non-ignore damage is usless against stupid high armor foes.

 

Have you proved that in-game, or just from a calculation standpoint?

 

I don't mean to sound harsh by saying that, I just want to get people together to work through the speculations, and have screencapped proof of what happens with 4 max auras.

[Ailia]

Ingame, we did a 4 corrosive run at 100% corrosive, and at 120% corrosive on Xini multiple times, as well as T3 defense, the result was pretty damn conclusive. Even with 4 corrosives, acrid remains the best choice due to the high armor mobs still going immune. The results are a bit different between 120% and 100% though, the immunity point changes a bit, 105%-120% ancients go immune at level 96-97, at an exact 100% its 127. No inverse armor scaling at an exact 100% though.

 

Easy content gets easier, doesn't really make hard content any easier than stacking siphons.

Edited August 9, 2013 by Ailia

[TezeretFoxtrot]

uhm... so... you mean to tell me 4 corrosive protections (even if they indeed stack to 120% additively) and non-AP/AI weapons would beat out 4 rifle amps (stacking to 105% or so dont remember) and 4 AP/AI/SerrBlade rifles like boltor or flux? dont think so. you are forced with a rifle but ammo drops like candy, no problem there

 

my opinion is that this game mechanic is just broken, increasing both HP pool and dmg protection as level skyrockets is plain overdoing it. past level 160, no enemy will get any damage from fire/freeze/shock sources, and past level 100 elemental resistence is so high that elemental mods other than AP arent really worth it anymore anyway

 

killing non AP/AI/SerrBlade for the sake of artificial difficulty is sad, armor should be removed alltogether, and HP pools should be pumped up accordingly. it proved almost impossible to put 4 corrosive protection together for testing, how many squads will be able to stack two or more in random pugs or even clan runs? only like 10-15% of current armory are AP/AI/SerrBlade (no counting melees with their AI charge attack), why cant we use those for high level? armor should be looked through a bit more carefully.

 

"working as intended" does not mean it is indeed working as intended, otherwise the statement would be backed up by some reasonable arguments. as far as gaming communities go, "working as intended" just means "we dont know how to tweak it right now, we might someday, but for now sky is not falling so this thing is staying, thanks for asking"

 

i'd love to use my braton prime and a cool pistol like the bew vasto, but im forced to use AP/AI/SerrBlade stuff in order to contribute to my squad's effort. i dont think this is good design, nor "working as intended" :P

[Ailia]

4 corrosives beats 4 rifle amps without a doubt, the problem is 4 corrosives doesn't solve the armor problem. As for why, it comes down to pistols being ahead of the DPS curve compared to rifles, plus corrosive applying to frame abilities like world on fire ( can tic as hard as 12000 on 3 enemies at a time due to inverse armor scaling ).

 

Past the armor breakpoint it doesn't really matter, get your acrid/flux ect.

 

TL;DR Armor is broke, fix plz.

Edited August 9, 2013 by Ailia

[NERVNQSR]

Ingame, we did a 4 corrosive run at 100% corrosive, and at 120% corrosive on Xini multiple times, as well as T3 defense, the result was pretty damn conclusive. Even with 4 corrosives, acrid remains the best choice due to the high armor mobs still going immune. The results are a bit different between 120% and 100% though, the immunity point changes a bit, 105%-120% ancients go immune at level 96-97, at an exact 100% its 127. No inverse armor scaling at an exact 100% though.

 

Easy content gets easier, doesn't really make hard content any easier than stacking siphons.

Sounds like a massive bug. If it gets fixed Corrosive Projection may become a thing.

Edited August 9, 2013 by NERVNQSR

[Ailia]

Really already is a "thing" for t3 defense, completely trivializes it when you run an exact 100%. Outside high wave defense, you won't see enemies that break the calculation. 105% and higher break the calc in t3 def unfortunatly. but taking ancient damage reduction from 94% to 0% is 16.6x more damage vs ancients and around 3-5x more vs everything else, a whole nother world apart from things like rifle amp. Applies to non-armor ignore abilities too. Vauban, ember blow everything to bits, nova trivializes the rest due to doubling damage again with her ult.

 

"Fixing" corrosive to not break the formula would really break the game unfortunatly, non-armor ignore ults one hit kill everything with armor at 120%, even ancients and about half of the bosses. Ones that can hit the same enemy multiple such as ember can take down any boss that doesn't have invuln stages in one cast.

Edited August 9, 2013 by Ailia

[TezeretFoxtrot]

Really already is a "thing" for t3 defense, completely trivializes it when you run an exact 100%. Outside high wave defense, you won't see enemies that break the calculation. 105% and higher break the calc in t3 def unfortunatly. but taking ancient damage reduction from 94% to 0% is 16.6x more damage vs ancients and around 3-5x more vs everything else, a whole nother world apart from things like rifle amp. Applies to non-armor ignore abilities too. Vauban, ember blow everything to bits, nova trivializes the rest due to doubling damage again with her ult.

 

AP/AI/SerrBlde stuff already deals 16.6x and 3-5x in your example, and the best performing pistols are already AP/AI... so... it boils down to "does this aura also lowers fire/shock/freeze resistences on mobs?" i wasnt aware of that. i remember several patches back that frame's damage dealing powers were converted to the appropriate element, so im going out on a limb by saying world on fire deals fire damage, how in hell is that boosted by reducing enemies armor? thing here is that this game is much more broken than i thought and i am indeed making a fool of myself by not exploiting it... fork me :/

[Ailia]

Armor applies to everything that isnt "Serrated Blade", "Armor Penetration", "Physics Impact", or "Poison". That includes all elemental types, bullet, laser and a few others.

 

Even armor ignore guns benefit more from corrosive projection than rifle amp due to a large portion of them still being elemental when modded.

 

Look at it this way, if elemental damage wasn't screwed by armor, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion since the gap between ignore and not would be a ton smaller. A bit &#036;&amp;*&amp;*#(%&amp; that enemies become immune to their elemental weakness in a lot of cases, such as ancients eventually going fire immune on their body.

Edited August 9, 2013 by Ailia

[TezeretFoxtrot]

soooooo elemental resistences were removed in a past patch because ALL elemental damage now is affected by armor? my whole gaming experience since dat patch is a huge lie -.-

 

on the plus side, this is not lasting much, DE keeps telling us they dont want a 'optimal setup' to ever exist. with the current armor mechanic and corrosive protection working as it does, it is gonna be THE optimal setup no matter what

[Ailia]

Damage modifiers such as the elemental modifiers (ex. fire vs infested) are applied as well as armor unless it is also a damage type that ignores armor, or a weakspot that doesn't apply armor to that damage type. It is a bit complicated in that regard. In general, body shots apply armor to all non-ignore damage types, some weakspots exempt some damage types from armor (ex. fire vs ancient limbs).

[Tragixx]

ancients eventually going fire immune on their body.

 

How and when? From what I see, fire damage is a static 2x multiplier for fire damage.

[Ailia]

Because armor applies to elemental damage, go test it on ancients above level 127, non-armor ignore weapon with just a fire mod doing body shots.

[TezeretFoxtrot]

god, such bad balance after months of beta staggers me more than the lack of endgame content... like doing defense forver? does anyone remember what the insane guy from farcry3 said about insanity?

[Tragixx]

Because armor applies to elemental damage, go test it on ancients above level 127, non-armor ignore weapon with just a fire mod doing body shots.

 

So, going immune to fire isn't what exactly happens, its that armor mitigates the fire damage.

 

But, with 100% or higher corrosive projection, armor is 0, and fire damage, among other elements (assuming the target doesn't have a multiplier against it), does full damage, regardless of enemy level, yes?

[Ailia]

Unfortunatly, no. At the point where armor would round fire damage to zero, it stays zero even with corrosive. Arguably a bug or a feature depending on how you look at it. Tested that heavily at 100% and 120% with embers world on fire. Quite sad to go from doing thousands of damage per tic to 0's as soon as the enemy level broke certin thresholds. Reconfirmed the levels it does it after with a braton + fire mod only under corrosive.

Edited August 9, 2013 by Ailia

[Tragixx]

Unfortunatly, no. At the point where armor would round fire damage to zero, it stays zero even with corrosive. Arguably a bug or a feature depending on how you look at it. Tested that heavily at 100% and 120% with embers world on fire. Quite sad to go from doing thousands of damage per tic to 0's as soon as the enemy level broke certin thresholds. Reconfirmed the levels it does it after with a braton + fire mod only under corrosive.

 

I don't see how. If you're reducing armor by 100%, armor is 0, and damage is calculated against that 0 armor.

 

I can't see how that's a feature at all.

Edited August 9, 2013 by Tragixx