Mobs, Aggro, And You: A Way To Make The Game Less Irritating

[Bakercompany86]

Hell, I'm all for taking a stealthier approach. It would be even better if we were rewarded with a bonus incentive for completing a level without being detected (except of course in some missions like defense/mobile defense/assassination).

 

In regards to the linearity of the tilesets, we need more alternate routes, like shortcuts or the like, that can only be made available if a control panel is successfully hacked, a complex one, mind you. 

 

And the rushers? Derp, they gonna rush, but instead of activating that stupid countdown timer, they get a prompt asking them if they wish to finish the mission and leave or wait for the missing teammates (who lagged behind or were too slow to keep up)., after all, there are FOUR escape ships waiting for us at the end of the level (mostly!). I know this suggestion is problematic, given the current Peer to Peer system and its faults, and in order to make it happen we'd need dedicated servers of some kind. But in the long run, I'm guessing it would be worth it, farmers could carry on their harvesting of creds/exp/matls undisturbed and rushers could, well, rush.

Imho, postpone the new content, and add the fixes and the stuff we really need in order to have fun.

 

I wouldn't mind stealth enhancing mods too.  Part of the stealth rewards could be more stealth enhancing mods.  Random thought.

[RazorTip]

I wouldn't mind stealth enhancing mods too.  Part of the stealth rewards could be more stealth enhancing mods.  Random thought.

That....I....well....yes. Something like "Tiptoe", which reduces the sound of your footsteps. Or "Shadow Skin" which turns you invisible when standing in darker/shadowed areas. For that to work best, I think we'd also need interactive environments, like being able to shoot the lights to make the rooms/corridors darker. Hmm, think Alien Vs Predator (2010), where you can disable lights when playing as the Xenomorph, to make yourself harder to see.

 

 

 

...I was joking about the first mod idea. Like hell DE would name a mod "Tiptoe".

Edited August 15, 2013 by RazorTip

[Bakercompany86]

That....I....well....yes. Something like "Tiptoe", which reduces the sound of your footsteps. Or "Shadow Skin" which turns you invisible when standing in darker/shadowed areas. For that to work best, I think we'd also need interactive environments, like being able to shoot the lights to make the rooms/corridors darker. Hmm, think Alien Vs Predator (2010), where you can disable lights when playing as the Xenomorph, to make yourself harder to see.

 

 

Hmm...it's doable especially with them working on lighting changes already (like what they showed us in the last livestream).

 

 

But your mod ideas were along my lines of thinking.  Stuff like shadow melding, silent footsteps, even an active camo if you crouch and stop for a few seconds.  I'm open to anything like that.  I love backstabbing =D

[RazorTip]

Hmm...it's doable especially with them working on lighting changes already (like what they showed us in the last livestream).

 

 

But your mod ideas were along my lines of thinking.  Stuff like shadow melding, silent footsteps, even an active camo if you crouch and stop for a few seconds.  I'm open to anything like that.  I love backstabbing =D

Ninja post'd.

[Goodwill]

Well, to be honest, you are a hulking mass of whatever your Warframe is made up of which is made up, but not limited to metallic objects. I'm surprised you can be stealthy at all in this game. I mean, you can rush (run, you know, *thud *thud *thud) up to an enemy and stealth kill them, so they may be omniscient but they are deaf to the ear.

 

Also, I don't feel that the enemy is completely omniscient, or Tower III Void runs would be a pain in the &#!.

 

I think that the reason the AI is as basic as they are is because if they were too advanced, imagine all the data that would have to be sent back and forth between players? I'm all okay with how the AI are now. Only thing I think that could help with stealth is a positive incentive to do it. Like, every stage there is a treasure room and if the alarm goes off, the enemy locks the room permanently.

[Bakercompany86]

Well, to be honest, you are a hulking mass of whatever your Warframe is made up of which is made up, but not limited to metallic objects. I'm surprised you can be stealthy at all in this game. I mean, you can rush (run, you know, *thud *thud *thud) up to an enemy and stealth kill them, so they may be omniscient but they are deaf to the ear.

 

Also, I don't feel that the enemy is completely omniscient, or Tower III Void runs would be a pain in the &#!.

 

I think that the reason the AI is as basic as they are is because if they were too advanced, imagine all the data that would have to be sent back and forth between players? I'm all okay with how the AI are now. Only thing I think that could help with stealth is a positive incentive to do it. Like, every stage there is a treasure room and if the alarm goes off, the enemy locks the room permanently.

 

 

They already have plans to do a complete AI revamp.  Most of the AI stuff is processed on the hosts machine.  The only thing sent back and forth is typically coordinates.  

"Player X is at position Y."  *data sent*  *host machine makes calculation* "AI Algorithm executes, processes, AI reacts" *new positioning and firing data sent*

[RazorTip]

Like, every stage there is a treasure room and if the alarm goes off, the enemy locks the room permanently.

This. There are secret rooms in some tilesets, but more often than not they're useless, unless you have Master Thief or the lockers are in the green. One way to convince players to look for those 'treasure rooms' would be if there was a chance, let's say 35%~40%, of getting rare drops and mods.

[Splatter_Puppet]

I hate how if you screw up once, that's it for any stealth option. You are on the sensors and that's it. Every other game I've ever played with stealth included in it allows you to continue sneaking around even after an enemy is alerted to you, just as long as you can hide or wait out the alert. I would at least like to see a way to hide or avoid detection long enough to try and continue being stealthy. Being able to sneak up behind enemies who are distracted by other player and still remain hidden would be great as well, and getting a higher chance (or even 100% chance) for a mod to drop from an enemy killed by a stealth attack would be even better.

 

Love the idea of a "treasure room." Every ship and outpost has an armory or something, for example, that locks down when on alert.

[FatRefrigerator]

I hate how if you screw up once, that's it for any stealth option. You are on the sensors and that's it. Every other game I've ever played with stealth included in it allows you to continue sneaking around even after an enemy is alerted to you, just as long as you can hide or wait out the alert. I would at least like to see a way to hide or avoid detection long enough to try and continue being stealthy. Being able to sneak up behind enemies who are distracted by other player and still remain hidden would be great as well, and getting a higher chance (or even 100% chance) for a mod to drop from an enemy killed by a stealth attack would be even better.

 

This is a big issue for me, stealth is a one-and-done kind of deal, when it should be a thing that varies from mob to mob and room to room, not map-wide.

[fishworshipper]

They already have plans to do a complete AI revamp.  Most of the AI stuff is processed on the hosts machine.  The only thing sent back and forth is typically coordinates.  

"Player X is at position Y."  *data sent*  *host machine makes calculation* "AI Algorithm executes, processes, AI reacts" *new positioning and firing data sent*

And then my computer dies from having to do that with 200 different enemies. Simultaneously.

[Goodwill]

I hate how if you screw up once, that's it for any stealth option. You are on the sensors and that's it. Every other game I've ever played with stealth included in it allows you to continue sneaking around even after an enemy is alerted to you, just as long as you can hide or wait out the alert. I would at least like to see a way to hide or avoid detection long enough to try and continue being stealthy. Being able to sneak up behind enemies who are distracted by other player and still remain hidden would be great as well, and getting a higher chance (or even 100% chance) for a mod to drop from an enemy killed by a stealth attack would be even better.

 

Love the idea of a "treasure room." Every ship and outpost has an armory or something, for example, that locks down when on alert.

 

Well, thinking realistically, alert mode would not lift unless a body of a Tenno has been found. I mean, imagine if you are in your house and you saw a poisonous snake slither across the floor and you lost track of it, I'm pretty sure most people wouldn't be able to relax until they see that snake dead (or for people who are all, "animal rights", extracted).

 

That being said, if they could somehow implement a way for you to fake your death or provide false information that the Tenno has been disposed of, then that would work.

 

But in the context of your comment, they should just have it where you are in "stealth" mode (able to execute stealth kills) simply if the enemy AI does not have you targeted, which in turn will work if they are targeting an ally.

[RazorTip]

Dead body no jutsu!

We ARE ninjas after all. :3

 

Jokes aside, I don't think giving them a dead Tenno is gonna help much. Think of it like this, the alert is given, we butc- I mean, 'dispose' the area of unfrindlies, and then hack a nearby terminal to spread a message of "all clear" to deactivate the alarm. I believe someone mentioned this already once before, and this option does indeed offer us a chance at a more stealthy gameplay.

[Goodwill]

Dead body no jutsu!

We ARE ninjas after all. :3

 

Jokes aside, I don't think giving them a dead Tenno is gonna help much. Think of it like this, the alert is given, we butc- I mean, 'dispose' the area of unfrindlies, and then hack a nearby terminal to spread a message of "all clear" to deactivate the alarm. I believe someone mentioned this already once before, and this option does indeed offer us a chance at a more stealthy gameplay.

 

Most lol thing ever if you could kill one of your allies and use them as a scapegoat.

 

But your suggestion of spreading an "all clear" message via the terminal is probably the most viable solution I've heard. Props go to this suggestion.

[Splatter_Puppet]

Well, thinking realistically, alert mode would not lift unless a body of a Tenno has been found. I mean, imagine if you are in your house and you saw a poisonous snake slither across the floor and you lost track of it, I'm pretty sure most people wouldn't be able to relax until they see that snake dead (or for people who are all, "animal rights", extracted).

 

That being said, if they could somehow implement a way for you to fake your death or provide false information that the Tenno has been disposed of, then that would work.

 

But in the context of your comment, they should just have it where you are in "stealth" mode (able to execute stealth kills) simply if the enemy AI does not have you targeted, which in turn will work if they are targeting an ally.

 

This is true, which is why other games that make an enemy just give up and say "Oh well, I guess it was nothing that just shot half of my friends," and go about his day are rather silly in that regard. I would at least like to see a way to hide from enemies even on alert though. As in they are frantically searching and I'm crouched behind a box or something and when I leave cover the whole room doesn't come running over when nobody was around me for 20 meters or more and I'm not in anyone's line of sight. I'm thinking more along the lines of games like the new Batman games for example. Enemies can lose sight of you, and in turn they get scared, paranoid and even turn on each other.

 

I agree, a stealth mode would probably be the best option.

Edited August 16, 2013 by Splatter_Puppet

[Mietz]

If I could kill realism discussions on video game forums, I would.

[Goodwill]

If I could kill realism discussions on video game forums, I would.

 

Unfortunately it is sometimes the only viable way to communicate with people that bring up realism as an element to be addressed. Also, you can't deny that "realism" is part of the concept process when creating a game. So the subject isn't completely null and off-topic.

[Bakercompany86]

This is true, which is why other games that make an enemy just give up and say "Oh well, I guess it was nothing that just shot half of my friends," and go about his day are rather silly in that regard. I would at least like to see a way to hide from enemies even on alert though. As in they are frantically searching and I'm crouched behind a box or something and when I leave cover the whole room doesn't come running over when nobody was around me for 20 meters or more and I'm not in anyone's line of sight. I'm thinking more along the lines of games like the new Batman games for example. Enemies can lose sight of you, and in turn they get scared, paranoid and even turn on each other.

 

I agree, a stealth mode would probably be the best option.

 

 

Yeah it bothers me that when I'm detected the entire ship knows my precise location, even if I'm creeping through a vent.

 

It would totally fit Warframe lore for Tenno Warframe suits to have the ability to hide from scanners.  The ship could be on alert and not just casually patrolling anymore, but in no way should they have a lowjack on your Tenno.

[Guest]

give the AI a "cone of sight"

 

like in metal gear solid

 

again, its something...

[FatRefrigerator]

give the AI a "cone of sight"

like in metal gear solid

again, its something...

Seeing you mention this and all the stealth discussion reminds me of a post I made a long time ago, it was popular, but DE can't read every thread before it goes to the back pages.

Forgot the link, here it is: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/11763-new-stealth-mechanic/

Edited August 16, 2013 by FatRefrigerator

[Bakercompany86]

Seeing you mention this and all the stealth discussion reminds me of a post I made a long time ago, it was popular, but DE can't read every thread before it goes to the back pages.

Forgot the link, here it is: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/11763-new-stealth-mechanic/

 

Wow...that's a fantastic post.  We should give that guy some attention.  DE could definitely use that to program their AI.  It's ready to be written in pseudo-code already =D

[RazorTip]

This is true, which is why other games that make an enemy just give up and say "Oh well, I guess it was nothing that just shot half of my friends," and go about his day are rather silly in that regard

Skyrim is one of the best examples there is, shoot a guy in the head with an arrow, wait for the eye thing to close and say "Hidden", and the bloke just stands there with an arrow on his neck. Like this one, to prove my point:

 

While this is funny, it just doesn't sound right, nor realistic, even in a game.

Edited August 16, 2013 by RazorTip

[FatRefrigerator]

Skyrim.

Yeah, which is why that stealth mechanic thread I posted up above would be good because it doesn't allow for that to happen.

[FatRefrigerator]

I think I discovered the issue guys, they need to stop using Combat Formation Bravo!

[FatRefrigerator]

Just another shameless bump

[MaxHardwood]

I'm actually okay with them knowing my precise location... No so much the infested mind you. However, if the alarm is gone if, it should be relatively easy for them to track you inside their ship. I mean if they have technology for artificial gravity, internal sensors would be nothing.

 

In terms of gameplay though, I'd think it's more like this.

 

1) Alarm goes off

2) Everybody knows exactly where you are

3) Hack a terminal

4) Recalibrate sensors to not detect you (maybe another minigame?)

5) Another enemy recalibrates the sensors when they see you by running to another terminal

 

So they would see you, alert everybody, know exactly where you are, you disappear, they're on alert for the rest of the mission. That would at least be kind of plausible. Mind you a ship of the size you normally play on would have people working sensors and stuff all the time so hacking and recalibrating wouldn't actually work.. but it's a video game PEW PEW ZAP!