Melee Suggestions + Concepts (Better Charge Attacks, Reworked Whips)

[ManiacalPotato]

With Digital Extremes working on the melee rework, I thought I'd put to words some ideas that I've had bubbling in my head for a while. I'm sure some of these have already been thought up, but what if they haven't? I'm too lazy to look through hundreds of forum posts, so if I don't put my ideas here they might never be thought!

Idea 1: Mobile Charge Attacks

   I think the reason nobody uses charge attacks now is due to their requirement to hold still while charging. In a game so intrinsically about running and gunning (or slashing), it seems so slow and clunky to hold still in front of an enemy and spend a second charging up an attack just to do 3x damage. So, stay with me now, what if we could do charge attacks.... while moving? There would be three variations: one that can be performed while walking, one that can be performed while airborne, and one that can be performed while crouching or sliding. Each one will have their own attack animation, and possibly even special effects depending on the weapon.

   The standing charge attack would look pretty much the same as the current charge attack, except possibly with more range to make up for the loss in mobility. The aerial charge attack would be a dash, similar to the bullet jump that does the weapon's damage and inflicts a knockdown to anything it passes through. It could also be aimed at the ground to do a directional slam attack, similar to the one shown off on Devstream #111 (See it here) This would make melee a much more mobile form of combat, and would provide a significantly different close-combat feel compared to using a shotgun. The final attack would be a multi-hit slide attack that propels you a significant distance along the ground. The range and speed of the attack would be similar to an Atlas using his 1, but with three or so attacks woven in as you move. 

Idea 2: Whip Rework (Greatwhips)

   So first, a disclaimer: I love warframe's whips, but I hate how they're used. The stances are all somewhat lackluster in my opinion, and the current spin to win meta just isn't fun. Enter Greatwhips.

Spoiler

This is the art for the MTG card Mortal Obstinacy, made by Polish artist Slawomir Maniak. You can check out more of his art here. I first thought of the idea for Greatwhips after flipping through my card collection, seeing this card, and thinking "What if I took this feeling, and translated it into Warframe?"

These could either be reworks of the existing whips, or a new weapon class altogether. These weapons would be focused on having gargantuan range to make up for their slow attack speed. Their stances would either focus on dealing damage in a wide area, or cracking down on a single target. Here are some example stats, to show you what this would look like: 

Example Greatwhip

Damage: 115 (60% Slash, 20% Impact, 20% Puncture)

Attack Speed: 0.5

Crit Stats: 20% / 2.0

Status Chance: 40%

Attack Range: 12m (Compare to the Orthos Prime, which has a range of 4m)

   Basic combos would consist of massive, swirling strikes that hit enemies in a wide area. More complicated combos would focus on building up momentum before unleashing it in one long range, massive damage strike that would knock the target off their feet, if they somehow survive.

   And that's about it! I might change these up a little if I get some feedback. Thanks for reading my ramblings!

 

 

Edited June 2, 2018 by ManiacalPotato

[WolvenEdge]

So.... forget having to spam a specific keyboard combo for the meta, let's just embrace it and turn it into a weapon of its own?

This is going to be next to useless due to the fact that if you hit a wall or other object, your damage for that swing or swing combo turns off, so you'd better have the room to use it, or you're going to be dealing a grand total of zilch.

[ManiacalPotato]

49 minutes ago, WolvenEdge said:

So.... forget having to spam a specific keyboard combo for the meta, let's just embrace it and turn it into a weapon of its own?

This is going to be next to useless due to the fact that if you hit a wall or other object, your damage for that swing or swing combo turns off, so you'd better have the room to use it, or you're going to be dealing a grand total of zilch.

That's not how melee works. Damage isn't cancelled if the weapon hits a wall, and even after the melee rework it will only cancel that damage that would hit enemies through a wall; if the enemy is within your line of sight, it will still be damaged. Also, compared to the current maiming strike Atterax meta, this weapon would be more effective against large groups but less effective against small bunches of high level enemies. Modded Atterax has a 12m range, whereas this weapon would have a modded range of 31.8 meters. I agree that this weapon would be horribly unbalanced if it were released right now, but after the melee rework is released I think it's a fairly balanced sidegrade to a standard whip.

Edited June 2, 2018 by ManiacalPotato
Typos

[WolvenEdge]

7 minutes ago, ManiacalPotato said:

That's not how melee works. Damage isn't cancelled if the weapon hits a wall, and even after the melee rework it will only cancel that damage that would hit enemies through a wall; if the enemy is within your line of sight, it will still  be damaged. Also, compared to the current maiming strike Atterax meta, this weapon would be more effective against large groups but less effective against small bunches of high level enemies. Modded Atterax has a 12m range, whereas this weapon would have a modded range of 31.8 meters. I agree that this weapon would be horribly unbalanced if it were released right now, but after the melee rework is released I think it's a fairly balanced sidegrade to a stnadard whip.

Your point on the melee changes and LoS.

Still sticking to my guns on the rest though. Compared to the Atterax, this thing would roflstomp against everything; its slash damage is higher than the Atterax's entire base damage, and it has longer range, and higher critical chance. Smaller groups of higher level enemies wouldn't fare any better than large groups of cannon fodder.

[ManiacalPotato]

1 minute ago, WolvenEdge said:

Your point on the melee changes and LoS.

Still sticking to my guns on the rest though. Compared to the Atterax, this thing would roflstomp against everything; its slash damage is higher than the Atterax's entire base damage, and it has longer range, and higher critical chance. Smaller groups of higher level enemies wouldn't fare any better than large groups of cannon fodder.

I made the damage so high to counterbalance the slow attack speed, I was comparing it to greatswords which have an average damage of around 130. I still think the Atterax has a higher dps, since it has higher crit stats and a higher attack speed. This weapon is also only 60% slash, compared to the Atterax's 90% slash which would make the high status chance much less of a boon.

[WolvenEdge]

1 minute ago, ManiacalPotato said:

I made the damage so high to counterbalance the slow attack speed, I was comparing it to greatswords which have an average damage of around 130. I still think the Atterax has a higher dps, since it has higher crit stats and a higher attack speed. This weapon is also only 60% slash, compared to the Atterax's 90% slash which would make the high status chance much less of a boon.

It would be less of a boon only if you didn't specialize your mod order.
69 slash, 23 puncture, 23 impact, with buzz kill, becomes 151.8 slash, which is now ~77 percent slash with the application of one mod, which isn't even a Riven. Speed isn't an issue; it's a crit weapon that hits crowds. Slap on a Berserker and watch the gore fly.

I like the idea, I just see issues with it being absurdly powerful, to levels akin to the current meta problem.

[ManiacalPotato]

Just now, WolvenEdge said:

It would be less of a boon only if you didn't specialize your mod order.
69 slash, 23 puncture, 23 impact, with buzz kill, becomes 151.8 slash, which is now ~77 percent slash with the application of one mod, which isn't even a Riven. Speed isn't an issue; it's a crit weapon that hits crowds. Slap on a Berserker and watch the gore fly.

I like the idea, I just see issues with it being absurdly powerful, to levels akin to the current meta problem.

That's fair, how do you think I should improve it? I don't want to remove the slash damage for flavor reasons, since real-life whips mostly deal damage via lots of shallow cuts.

[WolvenEdge]

7 minutes ago, ManiacalPotato said:

That's fair, how do you think I should improve it? I don't want to remove the slash damage for flavor reasons, since real-life whips mostly deal damage via lots of shallow cuts.

Personally, I'd lower the critical chance. Atterax has a solid 25, and it's near the top of melee weaponry in that particular category. 20% is where I'd put it; high enough for some crit builds to still be viable on it, but not roflstomp levels of 5x reds using Blood Rush. (I mean, that's how I built my Zaw, but it only has 40-odd damage base.)

40% status raw, with a reasonable slash bias and potential for high raw damage output, is a potent weapon in its own right. You can bleed out entire armies at once, and that's a bit scary imo. (Just imagine pairing that nightmare with Ash's passive and his invisibility. Yikes.)

But that's just what I'd do with it. I'm sure there are other ways to whip it into shape.

Edited June 2, 2018 by WolvenEdge
Puns. I'm sorry.

[ManiacalPotato]

5 minutes ago, WolvenEdge said:

I'd lower the critical chance. Atterax has a solid 25, and it's near the top of melee weaponry in that particular category. 20% is where I'd put it; high enough for some crit builds to still be viable on it, but not roflstomp levels of 5x reds using Blood Rush. (I mean, that's how I built my Zaw, but it only has 40-odd damage base.)

40% status raw, with a reasonable slash bias and potential for high raw damage output, is a potent weapon in its own right. You can bleed out entire armies at once, and that's a bit scary imo. (Just imagine pairing that nightmare with Ash's passive and his invisibility. Yikes.)

Damn, that is scary haha. 

Alright, edited that in! Thanks for the feedback!