Mods And Their Balance

[Depar]

Dmg Mods, we have:

 

Primary:

 

Serration:

max rank 10 165% costing 14 points

 

Shotgun:

 

Point Blank:

max rank 5 90% costing 9 points

 

Blaze:

max rank 3 60% costing 9 points

 

Secondary

 

Hornet Strike:

max rank 10 220% costing 14 points

 

so in summary

Rifle: 165% for 14 points

Shotguns: 160% for 18 points

secondary: 22% for 14 points

 

you see what is wrong here?(and we not talk about the ridiculous amount of mods you need after rank 6)

im certain there will be new double-mods for rifle and pistole to(making secondary even more the master race)

 

my suggestion is remove the ranks above 5, im sinking every fusion core and mod i have in my serration since a month

and only got the rank from 7-8 and a bit above this

 

so here it is

 

180%(240%) max rank 5 (starts with 30%[40%] and a cost of 6 points)

 

we do this to Hornet Strike, Serration and Point Blank

 

Now we come to Multishot

 

Primary:

 

Split Chamber:

max rank 5 90% costing 15 points

 

Shotgun:

 

Hell's Chamber:

max rank 5 120% costing 15 points

 

Secondary:

 

Barrel Diffusion:

max rank 5 120% costing 11 points

 

Lethal Torrent:

max rank 3 60% costing 11 points

 

so in summary

Rifle: 90%

Shotgun: 120%

Secondary: 180%

 

 

here im also certain there will be new NM multishot mods for shotguns and rifle but that dosent change the thing

that rifle will still lack the % aslong this mod not give 90%

 

My suggestion is we "glue" the stats from Barrel diffusion or Hells Chamber over the other two categorys

 

Lets see the Elemental Dmg

 

 

Rifle:

 

Hellfire:

max rank 5 90%fire costing 11 points

 

Wilfire:

max rank 3 60%fire costing 9 points

 

Stormbringer:

max rank 5 90%elec. costing 11 points

 

Cryo-Rounds:

max rank 5 90%ice costing 9 points

 

Piercieng Hit:

max rank 5 60%pierce costing 9 points

 

Shotgun:

 

Incendiary Coat:

max rank 5 90%fire costing 11 points

 

Blaze:

max rank 3 60%fire costing 9 points

 

Charged Shell:

max rank 5 90%elec. costing 11 points

 

Chilling Gasp:

max rank 5 90%ice costing 9 points

 

Flechette:

max rank5 90%pierce costing 9 points

 

Accelerated Blast:

max rank 3 60%pierce costing 9 points

 

Secondary:

 

Heated Charge:

max rank 5 90%fire costing 11 points

 

Convulsion:

max rank 5 90%elec. costing 11 points

 

Deep Freeze:

max rank 5 60%ice, costing 9 points

 

Ice Storm:

max rank 3 40%ice, costing 9 points

 

No Return:

max rank 5 90%pierce costing 7 points

 

in summary

Rifle:

 

Fire:150% for 20

Elec:90% for 11

Ice:90% for 9

Pierce:60% for 9

 

Shotgun:

 

Fire150% for 20

Elec:90% for 11

Ice:90% for 9

Pierce:150% 18

 

Secondary:

 

Fire:90% for 11

Elec:90% for 11

Ice:100% for 18

Pierce:90% for 7

 

i think we should bring all this elemental mods on the same lvl looking like this in every class

 

Fire:90% for 9

Elec:90% for 9

Ice: 90% for 9

Pierce: 90% for 11

 

"olol why pierce for 11 umad?" simple pierce is the best element against every fraktion from lvl 1 to infinity

 

Crit Mods

 

 

Rifle:

 

Point Strike:

150% crit-chance for 9 points

 

Vital Sense:

120% crit-dmg for 9 points

 

Hammershot:

60% crit-dmg for 9 points

 

Shotgun:

 

Blunderbuss:

90% crit-chance for 9 points

 

Ravage:

60% crit-dmg for 9 points

 

Secondary:

 

Pistol Gambit:

120% crit-chance for 9 points

 

Target Cracker:

60% crit-dmg for 9 points

 

in summary

Rifle:

150% crit-chance with 180% crit-dmg

 

Shotgun:

90% crit-chance with 60% crit-dmg

 

Secondary:

120% crit-chance with 60% crit-dmg

 

 

So crit seems the only part where the rifle could rly shine, but by losing in the first 2 categorys above

this is by no means justified, hear simple again buff shotgun and secondary mods to the same lvl

 

150%crit-chance with 120% crit-dmg for every category each 9 points

 

next, Firerate

 

Rifle:

 

Speed Trigger:

60% for 9 points

 

Shred:

30% for 11 points

 

Shotgun:

 

Shotgun Spazz:

90% for 9 points

 

Accelerated Blast:

60% for 9 points

 

Secondary:

 

Gunslinger:

72% for 9 points

 

Lethal Torrent:

60% for 11 points

 

in summary:

 

Rifle: 90% for 20 points

 

Shotgun: 150% for 18 points

 

Secondary: 132% for 20 points

 

and again the rifle-class gets a slap from the two other categorys, 20 points and not even over 100%

BUT, here is the problem with this, rifle class weapons have Charge-Mechanics

and firerate decrease this by a fair amount. giving rifle more then 90% firerate result in instant-charge

(sounds cool or? just tip the LMB and fire a charged shot with lanka/dread, however this would take out

the charge mechanic and even for 20 points i dont think thats what DE want)

 

so apperently i have so real suggestion on the Firerate-Topic, leave me yours here

 

Reload Speed

 

Rifle:

 

Fast Hands:

30% for 7 Points

 

Shotgun:

 

Tactical Pump:

30% for 7 points

 

Secondary:

 

Quickdraw:

48% for 7 points

 

Stunning Speed:

40% for 9 points

and again our bets should go to the masterrace Secondary with whopping 88% reload speed

this brings the reload speed from a Seer base 3 to 0,36 sec . . . isnt that beast?

 

my suggestion here is bring them all to 48% and lets w8 until the other 2 gets whoppin 88% too

 

Edit: according to TheGambler_BR this calculation is wrong dont mind it

 

 

 

 

best feedbeack i got so far

Your numbers are missing something kind of important. Value per point.

 

Allow me to elaborate using Multishot.

 

Consider all percentages as whole numbers. Divide the former percentage by the mod cost to find the ratio (or value) of the individual mod. If there is a decimal, round it to closest number as this is how the game is already set to calculate things. As a point of order, I will not use this method to compare a dual mod to a stand-alone mod. For the sake of balance, mods should only be compared against similar mods (I.E: Barrel Diffusion is not similar to Lethal Torrent, nor is Point Blank similar to Blaze). I'll be noting the value for these mods seperately, if only for reference's sake.

 

Split Chamber is 90% Multishot for 15 points. Value: 6:1

Hell's Chamber is 120% Multishot for 15 points. Value: 8:1

Barrel Diffusion is 120% Multishot for 11 points. Value: 10.9:1 -> 11:1

 

 

Lethal Torrent is 60% Multishot for 11 points. Value: 5.45:1 -> 5:1

Barrel Diffusion and Lethal Torrent combined is 180% Multishot for 22 points. Value: 8:1

 

To me, this is information that is extremely more effective for determining the balance of a mod. Barrel Diffusion severely outclasses all other multishot mods based on value alone and should be scaled back balance around Hell's Chamber, which is 8:1. Split Chamber should be enhanced to also meet this 8:1 value. The combination of of Barrel Diffusion and Lethal Torrent is there for reference, which ends up being around this balancing point due to the high point cost.

 

Long story short: Split Chamber should be 120% for 15 points, which is 8:1. Barrel Diffusion should be 90% for 11 points, which would be 8.18:1 -> 8:1. This adjustment for Barrel Diffusion brings the combo setup ratio to 6.81:1 -> 7:1 (150% divided by 22 points)

 

You can apply this method to each category you've broken down in your post. You may find that what you think isn't balanced is more balanced than you thought.

 

i still think that bring them all to the same lvl so everyone can decide which he prefers without losing to much

Edited August 23, 2013 by Depar

[Trollin4ThePrimes]

Their is no such thing as balance in this game...

[Depar]

Their is no such thing as balance in this game...

i cant hear you over all the balance i try to make

[A1CZERO]

I wouldn't worry about numbers for now as DE knows the damage system is broken and they're working on it as we speak.

[Depar]

I wouldn't worry about numbers for now as DE knows the damage system is broken and they're working on it as we speak.

I'm aware of that DE gonna overhaul the armor, still thats no excuse for leaving the diffrences on the mods

[TheGambler_BR]

Your numbers on reload speed are WAY off.

 

First of all, it isn't a reload time reduction. It's a reload speed increase.

 

Reload times are calculated like this: (T*mT)/(1+mS) where T is base reload time, and 1 is base reload speed. mT and mS are modifiers.

 

When you increase reload speed, you change the mS value. If you change it to, for example, 30% (or 0.3), like you do with a Fast Hands mod, you get a 1.3 reload speed. Dividing, say, Snipetron Vandal's reload speed (two seconds) by it will reduce overall reload time to 1.5 second. 

I have a video proving that, down to the very frame per second.

 

As far as pistols go, I am not sure how stacking works because I haven't tested it yet. If it works additively, you have a 1.88 reload speed, which should reduce reload times to around 53,2% of its base value. If it works multiplicatively, then to just slightly below 50% base. Either way it's a 3% difference, almost meaningless. But nowhere near the 88% reduction you said.

[Depar]

Your numbers on reload speed are WAY off.

 

First of all, it isn't a reload time reduction. It's a reload speed increase.

 

Reload times are calculated like this: (T*mT)/(1+mS) where T is base reload time, and 1 is base reload speed. mT and mS are modifiers.

 

When you increase reload speed, you change the mS value. If you change it to, for example, 30% (or 0.3), like you do with a Fast Hands mod, you get a 1.3 reload speed. Dividing, say, Snipetron Vandal's reload speed (two seconds) by it will reduce overall reload time to 1.5 second. 

I have a video proving that, down to the very frame per second.

 

As far as pistols go, I am not sure how stacking works because I haven't tested it yet. If it works additively, you have a 1.88 reload speed, which should reduce reload times to around 53,2% of its base value. If it works multiplicatively, then to just slightly below 50% base. Either way it's a 3% difference, almost meaningless. But nowhere near the 88% reduction you said.

interesting, thank you for pointing that out

never learn out huh :3

 

edited it

 

thx you again

Edited August 20, 2013 by Depar

[Eirshy]

Honestly I'd want to wait till we get the damage system rework before trying to balance anything.

[Depar]

Honestly I'd want to wait till we get the damage system rework before trying to balance anything.

like i stated above, i dont think that the armor overhaul will change the fact that secondary remain as masterrace

 

however, yes it will differ how "strong" mods are, but DE also want to God-Tier all the frames

 

and i dont think they gonna weaken the mods/weps because of it

[TheGambler_BR]

like i stated above, i dont think that the armor overhaul will change the fact that secondary remain as masterrace

 

however, yes it will differ how "strong" mods are, but DE also want to God-Tier all the frames

 

and i dont think they gonna weaken the mods/weps because of it

 

It might change.

Secondaries are king now because they have VERY powerful weapons that ignore armor (acrid, despair). It's a combo of above-average stats with over-the-top mods.

Most primaries do not have such a good element (lanka and flux rifle do). They mostly deal bullet damage.

[Eirshy]

It might change.

Secondaries are king now because they have VERY powerful weapons that ignore armor (acrid, despair). It's a combo of above-average stats with over-the-top mods.

Most primaries do not have such a good element (lanka and flux rifle do). They mostly deal bullet damage.

 

This basically.

 

 

And as much as everyone's like "oh pistols > all rifles", the one weapon category pistols cannot compete in at all is Snipers. Sure the Lex exists, but even the Vulkar is a better sniper than the Lex (thanks to crit (50/420 vs 33/225) negating the multishot isses).

Edited August 21, 2013 by TheBlueJelly

[Depar]

This basically.

 

 

And as much as everyone's like "oh pistols > all rifles", the one weapon category pistols cannot compete in at all is Snipers. Sure the Lex exists, but even the Vulkar is a better sniper than the Lex (thanks to crit (50/420 vs 33/225) negating the multishot isses).

but consider that crit mods on pistole are not on the same lvl as the rifle one's

 

 

yea sniper/bows are the "god"-Tier from the rifles (taking ogris/torid outa the count)

 

but still are pure lackluster, in comparison what they could be

 

i mean, the armoroverhaul will change nothing for the "real" sniper's like vandaltron/lanka

 

and it will not change the fact that acrid is still "the best" weapon out there

Edited August 23, 2013 by Depar

[Eirshy]

but consider that crit mods on pistole are not on the same lvl as the rifle one's

 

and it will not change the fact that acrid is still the pest weapon out there

 

Rifles have better crit mods, pistols have better everything else mods (except cold damage, actually).

In the field of Sniping, those crit mods vastly out-weigh the difference in the other mods.

 

 

As to the Acrid, Unless you're talking DPS, that opinion is quite subjective, and even then, it's entirely because the gun has stacking high-damage DoTs that hit 100% of the time, rather than being non-stacking or chance-based. And even when its DPS is high, it's also high-investment to actually use that DPS- as you need to keep pumping out new DoTs to actually "maintain" that DPS. This means the amount of overkill on the gun is actually comparable to the Lanka in the general case.

Edited August 21, 2013 by TheBlueJelly

[Depar]

 

Rifles have better crit mods, pistols have better everything else mods (except cold damage, actually).

In the field of Sniping, those crit mods vastly out-weigh the difference in the other mods.

 

 

As to the Acrid, Unless you're talking DPS, that opinion is quite subjective, and even then, it's entirely because the gun has stacking high-damage DoTs that hit 100% of the time, rather than being non-stacking or chance-based. And even when its DPS is high, it's also high-investment to actually use that DPS- as you need to keep pumping out new DoTs to actually "maintain" that DPS. This means the amount of overkill on the gun is actually comparable to the Lanka in the general case.

this maybe appears when we talk about a boss, or one singel high lvl ancients, but if you're not a spamming retard

you get a feeling for the acrid and can guess how many bolts you need to pump into that enemy to kill him and change

your target while the other foe, with the still running dots, dies

 

yes, sure thats player skill and have nothing to do with the weapon itself

 

but this also can appear on the lanka

 

i know until each lvl i can 1shot an enemy with 2 uncrits so i shot and while chargin my aim search for the next head

because i know my shot i fired early will be deadly.

 

this guess will start to break at the point where you need to have at least 1 headshotcrit to mow the enemy down because you cant be 100% sure one of you 50% will be a crit so you "need" to remain on this target to see if it actually happend that it die

 

the acrid, on the other side dont haves such variables like crit who could throw of you guess

 

but again demends on playerskill

 

but at the end of the day i compare apples to tomatoes

Edited August 23, 2013 by Depar

[Eirshy]

this maybe appears when we talk about a boss, or one singel high lvl ancients, but if you're not a spamming retard

you get a feeling for the acrid and get guess how many bolts you need to pump into that enemy to kill him and change

your target while the other foe, with the still running dots, dies

 

yes, sure thats player skill and have nothing to do with the weapon itself

 

but this also can appear on the lanka

 

i know until each lvl i can 1shot an enemy with 2 uncrits so i shot and while chargin my aim search for the next head

because i know my shot i fired early will be deadly.

 

this guess will start to break at the point where you need to have at least 1 headshotcrit to mow the enemy down because you cant be 100% sure one of you 50% will be a crit so you "need" to remain on this target to see if it actually happend that it die

 

the acrid, on the other side dont haves uch variables like crit who could throw of you guess

 

but again demends on playerskill

 

but at the end of the dayi compare apples to tomatoes

 

The difference is the gun's DPS isn't overly high with only 1 or 2 shots, and it actually takes a few seconds to apply its backloaded damage. Also, since the Acrid only barely benefits from a headshot, the Despair is actually able to compete with it if you headshot or sonarshot (or even ancient limbshot, as the DoT hits armor against everything except Moas and Osprey (which *never* apply armor)).

 

Just uh, read the OP in that thread if you want a full explanation of the problems the Acrid has... and the entire thread if you want in-depth discussion of its DPS.

 

The gun's good, don't get me wrong, but it isn't the god people seem to think it is.

Edited August 21, 2013 by TheBlueJelly

[Depar]

The difference is the gun's DPS isn't overly high with only 1 or 2 shots, and it actually takes a few seconds to apply its backloaded damage. Also, since the Acrid only barely benefits from a headshot, the Despair is actually able to compete with it if you headshot or sonarshot (or even ancient limbshot, as the DoT hits armor against everything except Moas and Osprey (which *never* apply armor)).

 

Just uh, read the OP in that thread if you want a full explanation of the problems the Acrid has... and the entire thread if you want in-depth discussion of its DPS.

 

The gun's good, don't get me wrong, but it isn't the god people seem to think it is.

i rode youthread, and this "problems" of the acrid are know by me.

 

still i had not the urge to say something to it, because i, like you surly already got, see the acrid atm at the godtier lvl

 

by this i dont say a lanka or flux cant compare in dmg/dps but for now i dont see the need to buff the acrid any further

Edited August 21, 2013 by Depar

[Archistopheles]

Get "on" my level,

 

Noob.

[Ruriko]

Your numbers are missing something kind of important. Value per point.

 

Allow me to elaborate using Multishot.

 

Consider all percentages as whole numbers. Divide the former percentage by the mod cost to find the ratio (or value) of the individual mod. If there is a decimal, round it to closest number as this is how the game is already set to calculate things. As a point of order, I will not use this method to compare a dual mod to a stand-alone mod. For the sake of balance, mods should only be compared against similar mods (I.E: Barrel Diffusion is not similar to Lethal Torrent, nor is Point Blank similar to Blaze). I'll be noting the value for these mods seperately, if only for reference's sake.

 

Split Chamber is 90% Multishot for 15 points. Value: 6:1

Hell's Chamber is 120% Multishot for 15 points. Value: 8:1

Barrel Diffusion is 120% Multishot for 11 points. Value: 10.9:1 -> 11:1

 

 

Lethal Torrent is 60% Multishot for 11 points. Value: 5.45:1 -> 5:1

Barrel Diffusion and Lethal Torrent combined is 180% Multishot for 22 points. Value: 8:1

 

To me, this is information that is extremely more effective for determining the balance of a mod. Barrel Diffusion severely outclasses all other multishot mods based on value alone and should be scaled back balance around Hell's Chamber, which is 8:1. Split Chamber should be enhanced to also meet this 8:1 value. The combination of of Barrel Diffusion and Lethal Torrent is there for reference, which ends up being around this balancing point due to the high point cost.

 

Long story short: Split Chamber should be 120% for 15 points, which is 8:1. Barrel Diffusion should be 90% for 11 points, which would be 8.18:1 -> 8:1. This adjustment for Barrel Diffusion brings the combo setup ratio to 6.81:1 -> 7:1 (150% divided by 22 points)

 

You can apply this method to each category you've broken down in your post. You may find that what you think isn't balanced is more balanced than you thought.

[Depar]

Your numbers are missing something kind of important. Value per point.

 

Allow me to elaborate using Multishot.

 

Consider all percentages as whole numbers. Divide the former percentage by the mod cost to find the ratio (or value) of the individual mod. If there is a decimal, round it to closest number as this is how the game is already set to calculate things. As a point of order, I will not use this method to compare a dual mod to a stand-alone mod. For the sake of balance, mods should only be compared against similar mods (I.E: Barrel Diffusion is not similar to Lethal Torrent, nor is Point Blank similar to Blaze). I'll be noting the value for these mods seperately, if only for reference's sake.

 

Split Chamber is 90% Multishot for 15 points. Value: 6:1

Hell's Chamber is 120% Multishot for 15 points. Value: 8:1

Barrel Diffusion is 120% Multishot for 11 points. Value: 10.9:1 -> 11:1

 

 

Lethal Torrent is 60% Multishot for 11 points. Value: 5.45:1 -> 5:1

Barrel Diffusion and Lethal Torrent combined is 180% Multishot for 22 points. Value: 8:1

 

To me, this is information that is extremely more effective for determining the balance of a mod. Barrel Diffusion severely outclasses all other multishot mods based on value alone and should be scaled back balance around Hell's Chamber, which is 8:1. Split Chamber should be enhanced to also meet this 8:1 value. The combination of of Barrel Diffusion and Lethal Torrent is there for reference, which ends up being around this balancing point due to the high point cost.

 

Long story short: Split Chamber should be 120% for 15 points, which is 8:1. Barrel Diffusion should be 90% for 11 points, which would be 8.18:1 -> 8:1. This adjustment for Barrel Diffusion brings the combo setup ratio to 6.81:1 -> 7:1 (150% divided by 22 points)

 

You can apply this method to each category you've broken down in your post. You may find that what you think isn't balanced is more balanced than you thought.

thats very interesting, i will edit it in the topic if you dont mind

[Ruriko]

Not at all. Glad to been of assistance.

[Ruriko]

Now that I've rested up, I feel I can build on my original post and offer a better explination for my suggestion of adjusting by value instead of adjusting by effect.

 

When you make all the mods identical, regardless of point cost you're making the only variance between weapons the style of the weapon itself. It makes the effectiveness of a Rifle different to a shotgun only by effective range, and inadvertently created the argument that one category of weapon is better than another (Shotgun better than Rifle, Pistol better than Rifle, Rifle better than Sniper Rifle/Bow).

 

Adjusting the effectiveness of mods around a balanced, middle value that accounts for the cost allows mods to have a similar effectiveness without taking away their arrangement that gives them unique flavor. Yes, Pistols shouldn't always be better than Rifles, and Rifles shouldn't always be better than shotguns, but making all mods identical will not change that.

 

I've decided to follow your lead and use the same format you've used and apply my own method of adjustment in hopes of showing you that there is another way.

 

Damage Mods

 

Serration: 165% for 14 points. Value: 11.78:1 -> 12:1

Point Blank: 90% for 9 points. Value: 10:1

Hornet Strike: 220% for for 14 points. Value: 15.71:1 -> 16:1

 

Blaze: 60% for 9 points. Value: 6.67:1 -> 7:1

Blaze and Point Blank: 150% for 18 points. Value: 8.33:1 -> 8:1

 

Recommendation: Increase Point Blank to 105% for 9 points to create a value of 11.66:1 -> 12:1. Reduce Hornet Strike to 165% for 14 points, giving it the same value as Serration (11.78:1 -> 12:1). The Blaze and Point Blank combination would be adjusted to 165% for 18 points, giving it a value of 9.16:1 -> 9:1.

 

Elemental Mods (Fire)

 

Hellfire: 90% for 11 points. Value: 8.18:1 -> 8:1

Incendiary Coat: 90% for 11 points. Value: 8.18:1 -> 8:1

Heated Charge: 90% for 11 points. Value: 8.18:1 -> 8:1

 

Blaze: 60% for 9 points. Value: 6.67:1 -> 7:1

Incendiary Coat and Blaze: 150% for 20 points. Value: 7.5:1 -> 8:1

 

Recommendation: Change nothing. All mods, including the combination of Incendiary Coat and Blaze, share the same value of 8:1.

 

Elemental Mods (Freeze)

 

Cyro Rounds: 90% for 9 points. Value: 10:1

Chilling Grasp: 90% for 9 points. Value: 10:1

Deep Freeze: 60% for 9 points. Value: 6.67:1 -> 7:1

 

Ice Storm: 40% for 9 points. Value: 4.44:1 -> 4:1

Deep Freeze and Ice Storm: 100% for 18 points. Value: 5.55:1 -> 6:1

 

Recommendation: This one is a difficult one to adjust, since it would involve making them all completely identical. The argument can easily be made that elemental mods are all identical outside of this and armor piercing, thus justifying making them all 90% for 9 points for a value of 10:1. Assuming this to be true, the only unusual thing in this roster would be Deep Freeze and Ice Storm, 140% for 18 points for a value of 7.77:1 -> 8:1.

 

Instead, it would be better to adjust the point cost of Deep Freeze to 6, making it a very awesome early game mod as well as a viable low-weapon rank mod. This reduced cost also benefits the player, since they don't have to sacrifice the same amount of points for a weaker effect than its other weapon counterparts. This change results in a value of 10:1, just like the other weapon types and other elemental types.

 

With this above change, the combination of Deep Freeze and Ice Storm would have 100% for 15 points, giving it a value of 6.66:1 -> 7:1

 

Elemental Mods (Electrical)

 

Stormbringer: 90% for 11 points. Value: 8.18:1 -> 8:1

Charged Shell: 90% for 11 points. Value: 8.18:1 -> 8:1

Convulsion: 90% for 11 points. Value: 8.18:1 -> 8:1

 

Recommendation: Change nothing. All mods share the same value of 8:1.

 

Elemental Mods (Armor Piercing)

 

Piercing Hit: 60% for 9 points. Value: 6.67:1 -> 7:1

Flechette: 90% for 9 points. Value: 10:1

No Return: 90% for 7 points. Value: 12.85:1 -> 13:1

 

Accelerated Blast: 60% for 9 points. Value: 6:67:1 -> 7:1

Flechette and Accelerated Blast: 150% for 18 points. Value: 8.33:1 -> 8:1

 

Recommendation: This is the only other category of elemental mods that does not fit the mold, with the other being Freeze. This is the only category that I feel I must tread lightly, due to the nature and raw power of armor piercing. That being said, obviously No Return should not be superior to Flechette, which by value alone, it most definately is.

 

Piercing hit should have its cost reduced to 6 points, making it a powerful early game/low weapon rank option for players while also balacing its value at 10:1, same as Flechette. Likewise, No Return should have its effect reduced to 70% Armor Piercing to also meet this 10:1 value.

 

Critical Chance

 

Point Strike: 150% for 9 points. Value: 16.67:1 -> 17:1

Blunderbuss: 90% for 9 points. Value: 10:1

Pistol Gambit: 120% for 9 points. Value: 13.33:1 -> 13:1

 

Recommendation: Everything is all over the chart here. This one is one of the more difficult mods to balance because the value has almost no meaning since every weapon has different critical hit chances. Generally, you see anywhere between 2.5 - 5% for automatic rifles, 5 - 7.5% for semi-automatic rifles (including burst fire), 20% for Sniper Rifles, 2.5 - 7.5% for shotguns, and pistols that run the gambit from 2.5% to 15%, depending on the style of weapon (or just plain design, in the case of the Viper).

 

To achieve a balanced value between these mods, Point Strike will have to be reduced to 120% for 9 points, giving it a value of 13.33:1 -> 13:1. Blunderbuss should have its cost reduced to 7 points, bringing its value up to 12.85:1 -> 13:1.

 

Critical Damage

 

Vital Sense: 120% for 9 points. Value: 13.33:1 -> 13:1

Ravage: 60% for 9 points. Value: 6.67:1 -> 7:1

Target Cracker: 60% for 9 points. Value: 6.67:1 -> 7:1

 

Hammer Shot: 60% for 9 points. Value: 6.67:1 -> 7:1

Hammer Shot and Vital Sense: 180% for 18 points. Value: 10:1

 

Recommendation: Presently, regardless of weapon, natural critical damage is 150% of normal. That makes it easy to balance everything out. You may notice that Vital Sense is drastically more powerful than its counterparts. I'm not completely sure that isn't unfair, since Sniper Rifles use Rifle mods. That being said, it is clear that Ravage and Target Cracker are underwhelming by comparison.

 

The aim should be to balance all the mods around the value of 13:1, same as Vital Sense. Why bring all the values to this point? It is much harder to balance mods around a made up value, say 10:1. It would mean adjusting 3 mods instead of just 2. If the aim is to make the mods better by balancing them fairly, then on needs to focus on benefiting players and all players benefit from extra damage.

 

Ravage and Target Cracker would need to see identical changes: Increase the effect to 90% and reduce the cost to 7. This results in a value of 12.85:1 -> 13:1, same as Vital Sense.  

 

 

Fire Rate

 

Speed Trigger: 60% for 9 points. Value: 6.67:1 -> 7:1

Shotgun Spazz: 90% for 9 points. Value: 10:1

Gunslinger: 72% for 9 points. Value: 8:1

 

Accelerated Blast: 60% for 9 points. Value 6.67:1 -> 7:1

Accelerated Blast and Shotgun Spazz: 150% for 18 points. Value: 8.33:1 -> 8:1

 

Lethal Torrent: 60% for 11 points. Value: 5.45:1 -> 5:1

Lethal Torrent and Gunslinger: 132% for 20 points. Value: 6.6:1 -> 7:1

 

Shred: 30% for 11 points. Value: 2.72:1 -> 3:1

Speed Trigger and Shred: 90% for 20 points. Value: 4.5:1 -> 5:1

 

Recommendation: This is another difficult one. Once again, rather than going with the neutral value of 8:1, I recommend bringing the mods to the highest value of 10:1. Fire Rate benefits everyone while coming at its own cost. In balancing them, it isn't their effect that needs to be adjusted. It is their point cost.

 

To this effect, I recommend reducing the cost of Speed Trigger to 6, thus giving it the target 10:1 value. Likewise, Gunslinger should have its cost reduced to 7, resulting in a value of 10.28:1 -> 10:1.

 

With this change, Lethal Torrent + Gunslinger would have an adjusted value of 7.3:1 -> 7:1 while Speed Trigger + Shred would have an adjusted value of 5.28:1 -> 5:1.

 

As an additional counterpoint, I feel the need to compare the Dual Stat Mods against each other.

 

Accelerated Blast has a value of 7.1

Lethal Torrent has a value of 5:1

Shred has a value of 3:1

 

Is this fair? In this category, no. However, because these are dual stat mods, all with different effects included, they cannot be fairly judged against one another. They have no balancing qualities to compare.

 

I will not address Reload Speed. Other users have already done that. If time allows, I will address it later. For now, I am off to prepare for work.

Edited August 23, 2013 by Ruriko

[Ruriko]

Shameless bump because I finally finished editting/updating my last post. Sorry for my screw ups with it originally. Thought occurred to me while I was driving to work and I realized I was basically being stupid.

[Altey]

All is ok with mods balance