lohntron39 Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Casual player comments hold no weight here, this is a closed-beta, everyone signing up should be aware of the forums and what being a part of a closed beta entails. The OP's anger would make more sense if this were a released title, but it's not. We're here to feedback and help guide the development, of course there are many things that need fixing, but they shouldn't make you angry... If you paid $250 and expected everything to be great, you're doing it wrong. I'm wondering if YOU understand that this is a beta. That means players point out things that need to be fixed, improved, and changed. Saying "This thing that's broken doesn't need to be fixed because you can leave the game to go read the forums for a few hours to find out about it" is asanine and pigheaded. At no point did he say he expected everything to be working perfectly, especially not because he bought a founder's pack. Perhaps it would benefit you to go back and read his posts again. OP is at fault here, his manner and expectations are way off base. So you're saying you're not responsible for your own actions, that he forced you to respond the way you did? Come off it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankJaeger Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Nothing gets done by trying to shift blame or call each other out. Nor am I making any assumptions on what a Grand Master or regular free-of-charge beta tester should expect or should do. I'm simply responding to Stelek's concerns and trying to get this back onto a productive track - and I would like to hear what he has to say before everyone else keeps trying to hijack his thread. If you have other unrelated concerns about this or another topic, please bring it up with another user individually or make your own topic for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lohntron39 Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I'm simply responding to Stelek's concerns and trying to get this back onto a productive track - and I would like to hear what he has to say before everyone else keeps trying to hijack his thread. He already said it, your response was "Whoa man, that's too much, break it down for me slowly so I can respond to a single thing at a time." His posts are still there if you want to address what he has said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakalwe Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I'm wondering if YOU understand that this is a beta. That means players point out things that need to be fixed, improved, and changed. Saying "This thing that's broken doesn't need to be fixed because you can leave the game to go read the forums for a few hours to find out about it" is asanine and pigheaded. At no point did he say he expected everything to be working perfectly, especially not because he bought a founder's pack. Perhaps it would benefit you to go back and read his posts again. You missed the point of my comment: what part of what I wrote made you think I don't understand that feedback should be given? OP is angry that a closed-beta isn't living up to his expecations. It's all over the tone of his post, he's not giveing polite feedback and making suggestions, he's getting angry because the game isn't good enough. He's missing the point, too. So you're saying you're not responsible for your own actions, that he forced you to respond the way you did? Come off it. The OP 's tone was hostile. Of course it's going to set people on edge. His use of language is uncalled for, there's no need for it. Nothing gets done by trying to shift blame or call each other out. Nor am I making any assumptions on what a Grand Master or regular free-of-charge beta tester should expect or should do. I'm simply responding to Stelek's concerns and trying to get this back onto a productive track - and I would like to hear what he has to say before everyone else keeps trying to hijack his thread. If you have other unrelated concerns about this or another topic, please bring it up with another user individually or make your own topic for it. See above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lohntron39 Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 You missed the point of my comment: what part of what I wrote made you think I don't understand that feedback should be given? Casual player comments hold no weight here, this is a closed-beta, everyone signing up should be aware of the forums and what being a part of a closed beta entails. This part. The OP 's tone was hostile. Of course it's going to set people on edge. His use of language is uncalled for, there's no need for it. Your tone is hostile as well, yet when another player asked everyone to take it down a notch, you pointed fingers and tried to say it was all the OP's fault. Own up to your own actions. See above. Empty quoting other players' posts without adding something does not make it your own argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankJaeger Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Reported to DE for a lock since this is not going anywhere productive. I'll message Stelek directly to see if there is anything I can discuss with him to help with any of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lohntron39 Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Reported to DE for a lock since this is not going anywhere productive. I'll message Stelek directly to see if there is anything I can discuss with him to help with any of this. It's too bad you didn't use the opportunity you had to address all of the OP's concerns, but at least this way you're sweeping it all under the rug, which, by the way, is going to validate OP's concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakalwe Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 (edited) This part. You misunderstand. People were saying there isn't enough guidance right now for casual players, and while this is something that certainly needs to be addressed for retail, right now there should be no casual players. We're beta-testers, in essence volunter workers, that's what we're here for. And being a beta-tester means using the forums for feedback, so everyone here should be using them and aware of the information being passed around. Your tone is hostile as well, yet when another player asked everyone to take it down a notch, you pointed fingers and tried to say it was all the OP's fault. Own up to your own actions. Not hostile, but firm. We shouldn't accept people into our community with the kind of hostility the OP has, it never ever ends well. Empty quoting other players' posts without adding something does not make it your own argument. I think you misundertood again, I'd already answered the part I quoted in the previous comment, which is what "see above" is refering to. - PS - I would gladly discuss the OP's concerns if he had a better attitude. Edited February 10, 2013 by Zakalwe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lohntron39 Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 You misunderstand. People were saying there isn't enough guidance right now for casual players, and while this is something that certainly needs to be addressed for retail, right now there should be no casual players. We're beta-testers, in essence volunter workers, that's what we're here for. And being a beta-tester means using the forums for feedback, so everyone here should be using them and aware of the information being passed around. You missed the point again. Also, it's not "people were saying", that was exactly what the OP was saying. There's no bar to entry keeping people from getting a key in this "closed beta", and it's already spreading word of mouth about its ongoing flaws and shortcomings. There are casual players already, and simply waving your hands and saying there shouldn't be any does nothing to address the issues. Not hostile, but firm. We shouldn't accept people into our community with the kind of hostility the OP has, it never ever ends well. Not hostile? Let's see... How did you know it was worthy of $250 if you "came in blind"? If you can't see what your'e doing wrong here then there's really not much more to say... Thread should be locked. OP should take a breath and come back when he's not so angry. Sarcasm, hostile tone, "get out and come back when I like how you talk". If you paid $250 and expected everything to be great, you're doing it wrong. OP is at fault here, his manner and expectations are way off base. Harshly judgmental, finger pointing, basically attacking the OP, and he didn't even respond to you once. I like how you're deciding who should be on a forum or not. I think you misundertood again, I'd already answered the part I quoted in the previous comment, which is what "see above" is refering to. PS - I would gladly discuss the OP's concerns if he had a better attitude. Except you did the exact opposite of what you were quoting. You decided how the OP should be playing, you decided what the OP should be expecting from the game, and you shifted blame when Frank asked everyone to take it down. If you can't handle someone's concerns because they come across a certain way, maybe you should take a break from the Internet. It can be a little rough out here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakalwe Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 You missed the point again. Also, it's not "people were saying", that was exactly what the OP was saying. There's no bar to entry keeping people from getting a key in this "closed beta", and it's already spreading word of mouth about its ongoing flaws and shortcomings. There are casual players already, and simply waving your hands and saying there shouldn't be any does nothing to address the issues. The entire idea of a closed-beta is to be a beta tester, not a casual player. Just because people might pick up a key and not understand that doesn't change that fact. Not hostile? Let's see... Sarcasm, hostile tone, "get out and come back when I like how you talk". So you're absolutey fine with the hostile tone of his OP, yet me suggesting he change his tone so he doesn't upset the community is a bad thing? Harshly judgmental, finger pointing, basically attacking the OP, and he didn't even respond to you once. I like how you're deciding who should be on a forum or not. Again, I'm merely suggesting his tone change so he doesn't disrupt the community with his unnecessary hotility. Which he clearly has done. There's no need for it. And it's not harshly judgemental, the guy is clearly agnry and venting his disaapointment and frustrations by being pointlessly angry. This is a closed-beta, of course it's not going to be perfect. We're supposed to notice what needs improving and feedback politely and productively, not like this. I see... Except you did the exact opposite of what you were quoting. You decided how the OP should be playing, you decided what the OP should be expecting from the game, and you shifted blame when Frank asked everyone to take it down. It wasn't the opposite. Both quotes were commenting on the fact people were becomming upset with the OP's attitude. If you can't handle someone's concerns because they come across a certain way, maybe you should take a break from the Internet. It can be a little rough out here. Take your own advice maybe. I'm not sure why you decided to attack me when it's clear the OP's attitude has caused people to respond in less than productive ways, and his constant need to insult the responses he's had isn't indicative of someone who wants a productive discussion, but merely wants a soapbox to vent on. That's not what the forum is here for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lohntron39 Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 tl;dr To sum this up in a bite-sized morsel you might be able to swallow: you're trying to tell others how they should play, how they should think, who is allowed here and who isn't, how they should talk. You're doing it in a hostile way, and when you got called on it, instead of just rolling with it, you started finger-pointing back to the OP instead of just accepting that that's what you were doing. Then you basically said you were too good to discuss something if it wasn't worded the way you wanted it to be. Take your own advice maybe. I'm not sure why you decided to attack me when it's clear the OP's attitude has caused people to respond in less than productive ways, I'm not the one who said "I would gladly discuss the OP's concerns if he had a better attitude." So telling me to take my own advice is...odd, since I'm not the one whining about mean words, and you're still refusing to accept ownership for your own statements. Just keep saying it was the OP's fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakalwe Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 (edited) To sum this up in a bite-sized morsel you might be able to swallow: you're trying to tell others how they should play, how they should think, who is allowed here and who isn't, how they should talk. You're doing it in a hostile way, and when you got called on it, instead of just rolling with it, you started finger-pointing back to the OP instead of just accepting that that's what you were doing. Then you basically said you were too good to discuss something if it wasn't worded the way you wanted it to be. This is very bizarre. Fact: closed-betas are for beta testers to help beta test a product, not for casual players to enjoy a game. So while the fact there's no guidance for casual players right now is certainly something that needs to be addressed for launch, it's not something that should cause anger for its lack of inclusion right now. I'm not telling anyone how to play the game, play it casually by all means if that's what you want to do, just don't complain that the game isn't catering for that kind of casual play right now. I didn't say I was too good to discuss things with the OP, merely that I don't feel like discussing something with someone who's being outright rude and insulting to others just becasue he's angry because a closed-beta isn't up to retail standard... And of course my tone isn't going to be as friendly as it could be when the OP is being so rude to everyone. And no, I don't think we should allow people to get away with having this kind of attitude as it's nothing but disruptive, were I a mod I'd ask him kindly to tone it down and reword his posts. Many of his points are valid, but the way he's putting them across is just going to disrupt things/ That's how we moderate on the sites I moderate for at least, and it keeps things in check pretty well. I'm not the one who said "I would gladly discuss the OP's concerns if he had a better attitude." So telling me to take my own advice is...odd, since I'm not the one whining about mean words, and you're still refusing to accept ownership for your own statements. Just keep saying it was the OP's fault. Take your own advice as in log-off the internet if you can't take other people's opinions. Ie: my opinion that the OP should be more polite, so we could be polite in return and the discussion could be a productive one. You are having a go at me for being hostile, yet you've singled me out and seem to enjoy attacking me for some reason, and you seem absolutey fine with the OP's hostile tone and open rudeness and direct insults. I'm a little confused, to be honest. Edited February 10, 2013 by Zakalwe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lohntron39 Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 tl;dr You're not listening to what's being said, and apparently you think you're the one to tell everyone else how to play/act/think because you moderate a page somewhere. I'm done wasting my time on you, you're not worth any further effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakalwe Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 You're not listening to what's being said, and apparently you think you're the one to tell everyone else how to play/act/think because you moderate a page somewhere. I'm done wasting my time on you, you're not worth any further effort. I have no idea what your agenda is friend, but all I'm doing is suggesting that if people remain polite and keep their expecations realistic within the definition of what a closed-beta is, then these discussions can be productive, friendly, and worthwhile. You don't need to be a moderator anywhere to see the sense in that. If you choose to misinterpret my intent and/or not read what I've written, then that's your choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lohntron39 Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I have no idea what your agenda is friend, but all I'm doing is suggesting that if people remain polite and keep their expecations realistic within the definition of what a closed-beta is, then these discussions can be productive, friendly, and worthwhile. You don't need to be a moderator anywhere to see the sense in that. If you choose to misinterpret my intent and/or not read what I've written, then that's your choice. Nothing to misintrepet, your "politeness" has been pointed out several times. Don't lie when quotes exist. Ciao kid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davante Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I got to say I laughed when I saw you were a Grandmaster. That my friend is a lot of whining for a Grandmaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts