So, Frame Fighter. Some Criticisms and Suggestions

[Sonicfanx1]

Note: This came from 5 matches of Frame Fighter and I don't really want to go back because of how broken the game felt.

Edit 1: Coming back to edit baby.

I play fighting games so I think I've got some authority on this topic. Also I know this is just a mini-game that you're just supposed to play for 5 minutes and not care about it, but as it stands right now, it's the kind of game you only really play ONCE and never touch again because of how broken it is. Honestly, that's not worth the 50k Standing you put into it. And I know that there are other games, but if the first game you made for the Ludoplex isn't good and doesn't have polish then that doesn't give people much reason to invest standing into other games.

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Criticism

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Frame fighter has some issues. The block button is broken if you're waking up and need to block immediately. Grabbing is kinda over powered if you're up close. There are no defensive options. You're basically dead if you get knocked down seeing as it's neigh impossible to block on wake up and a whole slew of other problems that people are probably going reiterate.

Frankly, Frame Fighter plays like as if it were the first ever fighting game ever made. Essentially, it is Street Fighter 1.

How it compares to other fighting games

The game's biggest problem is that it is simply broken and unplayable. Fighting games isn't just about punching people and combos. It's about spacing, strategy and positioning too. Defense and offense is just one vector of fighting games. Look at Dragon Ball FighterZ as an example. To many veterans in the FGC, Dragon Ball FighterZ is an easy game but it is played at an extremely high level because the core gameplay doesn't revolve around large combos or anything. It's all about fighting game fundamentals. Unfortunately, Frame Fighter doesn't have traditional fundamentals. The way it handles itself is more akin to a beat-em-up than a fighting game.

The Recovery Issue

Usually in fighting games, when you recover (wake up) you are invincible and cannot be hit or grabbed. From a technical standpoint, you have not hurt box. This is so when you get up, you at least have a fighting chance. Unlike in fighting games, I've been able to hit people as they are getting up and even grab them which causes another HKD (hard knock down) which allows for the same set up. Not to say that players who are recovering don't have a dis-advantage. Now I don't know if that was from lag but this was my experience. In fighting games, we usually go for the HKD for advantage. The opponent's defensive options are to either guess, Burst (in anime fighters most of the time), or do a DP (Shoryuken/Dragon Punch, invincible on start up, high priority).

Defense and Offense

That was just my qualms with recovering. The combat is a whole other beast. Frankly, the combat is solid but severely lacking in areas. I have no issues with auto combos, but I do have issues with how you've balanced them. First of all, blocking is absolutely useless. You literally unsafe blocking and if you do block, you take tremendous amounts of chip damage. What this means is that if you block, you DO NOT have enough time to throw out a punch before your opponent can. This is what we call unsafe or minus frames. And the chip damage is pretty ridiculous. It might just be the effects, but I felt like I was taking half damage which is unacceptable on block. You're essentially punishing defensive play and rewarding offense too much.

Edit 1: Played some more frame fighter, updated Offense

Heavies are garbage. Never use that button. It has no armor, it's slow and has no range. Lights on the other hand are BROKEN. For some reason, lights do NOT cause a HKD and cause so little push back that you can link a light auto into another light auto. As for mediums, it's only really useful as a poke tool and the 3rd hit is a frame trap for some reason (Frame Trap: A move that looks punishable but isn't). Grabbing is also SUPER BROKEN since you can grab opponents on wake up. The smash (down+Button) also causes an instant knock down which is useful but since HKDs knock back so far and the corner is a billion miles away, it's just a way to reset to neutral. There are also no good air to ground moves but there's an anti-air. Which is weird because the HKD is also really good.

Speaking of which, the anti air has too little recovery and is easily the fastest move in the game.

Again this could just be my lag, but I was the host in this case. If anyone was lagging, it should have been my opponent.

Edit 1: Movement

Too stiff. Walking speed is too slow and rolling has too much recovery. Because of this, it is far too hard to get in easily and a defensive player (without lag) can easily beat any offensive.

Now there are other issues, but frankly I'm too lazy to list them all off and you could learn much more by just playing Street Fighter (play SF4 not SF5. SF5 is bad) and trying to learn how the game works mechanically and technically. Frame Fighter is already based a lot on SF and MK (though it plays more like SF and DoA than it does MK purely because of the auto combos) so it shouldn't hurt to play them and figure out how they work technically.

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Suggestions

Note: I wrote this section before the criticism section. There are bound to be repeat information.

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3 things that I'd like changed/tweeked immediately:

1) On wake up (recovery from being knocked down), I'd like to be fully invincible (as in weapons pass through me, no hitbox) until I'm standing and can block.

2) Better controller support (controller on PC just doesn't work as intended right now)

3) Allow us to press block while holding a button (i.e. hold block and back at the same time) or let us block while holding back. (As per most fighting games without push-block)

---Now we got that out of the way, this WILL make the mini-game much better and less broken. Onto less game breaking issues.

First of all, frame fighter doesn't have a dedicated "training mode" which is fine since this isn't really a sophisticated fighting game like BlazBlue or Guilty Gear, but I'd still like it anyways to play around with the game without having to go online.

Secondly, while having auto combos is fine (Dragon Ball FighterZ has it), I'd like there to be at least 2 buttons that are a sweep (hard knock down) and a light poke (that doesn't go into an auto combo). This will give the game some form of neutral as I don't want to be using "medium" or "i" all the time as my main poking move.

Lastly for now, some major gameplay alterations. In fighting games, we have high/mids/lows. Highs are moves that are overheads or moves that MUST be blocked standing. In the anime FGC (fighting game community) we usually call them overheads and not Highs. Mids are moves that can be blocked either standing or crouching. Lows are moves that hit low or must be blocked crouching. Integrating my previous suggestions, you could change how some moves operate to make this more like a more serious fighting game. This would make the game (as it is right now) more like a mix of street fighter and dead or alive with push block (a dedicated block button, no auto blocking while holding back). It would also REALLY balance the game and make it more fun given how jank it is right now.

That's all I really have to suggest right now. You don't really need to make this into a "real" fighting game (though it'd be nice if you guys could...?) but these suggestions could really help make the game more fun and balanced.

Edited August 17, 2018 by Sonicfanx1
Refreshed experience, giving some more criticism

[N7Khan]

It gets better. The crouch anti air causes a hard-knock down but doesn't reset to neutral. Instead you can roll after your opponent and chain any one attack into another crouch anti air, causing a very simple to execute touch of death scenario, no need to go for a grab on their wake-up. There is very little reason not to crouch block and spam the move. Only real thing that can beat it is a very reactable ground pound that's plus on block or a meticulously spaced single heavy attack into crouch anti air for knockdown. Its also great to mash out on hit for defense when the game isn't boiled down to the one interaction. 

Crouching also goes under most attacks including the throw. Speaking of throws also loop in the corner with no method of getting out of it. Its a cool minigame if both players like to mash I guess, after that its dubious at best. Found out all of the above in about a half hour of playing around with it. Personally I wouldn't remove moves outright to fix any of this, rather tweak the get up time and have attacking extend your hurtbox so some semblance of whiff punishment can exist. Adding pushback when guarding would also do wonders.  Finally, have a dedicated roll button. Cant really do spacing if tapping in any direction causes a huge roll, at the very least add iframes to said roll so you can get out of mixups.

Edited August 17, 2018 by N7Khan

[LeoLucario]

The main thing i'm extremely disappointed in is the lack of diversity between frames, the only thing that separates them is minor speed, damage stats and one single underwhelming ability bound to a single key press. I was really hoping each frame would have an ultimate ability where they would use their 4th ability and each use a different weapon that matches the frame the best or at the very least have abilities be performed through traditional inputs e.g quarter-circle forward + light attack would use the first ability so on and so forth. Oh well, hopefully they update it further and actually flesh it out instead of the buggy, slow and extremely simple mess that it is currently. 😕

Edited August 18, 2018 by LeoLucario

[TinFoilMkIV]

My biggest issues are the unresponsive blocking and ability to be hit on wake up. I think the blocking issues would be fixed if the game registered holding the block button, instead of seemingly only being able to start blocking when pressing the button. The problem currently, is that if you press block before you're able to act, such as when you're being hit, or standing up, you end up just standing there like an idiot and eating attacks to the face. That's not good for a fighting game. The whole point of guarding in a fighting game is to stop yourself from being attacked. If pressing it the slightly wrong way makes it completely non-functional, then it's not really doing it's job.

The wake up is a bit less of a problem, but still pretty big. Getting knocked down is supposed to be bad, but it's not supposed to outright lose you the game against a competent opponent. While it's not always that level of bad, it's still giving away lots of free hits and potentially looping into a complete loss.

[(PSN)Mr-TRAPxx]

I agree with all of your points, and my biggest problem is how broken the hitboxes are. I could be standing a good enough distance to where it seems I can't get hit, and yet, I still take damage. It's kinda ridiculous. Hopefully, when the time comes, DE can fix this cause I'm kinda upset that I wasted standing just get the ludoplex to play this broken minigame..

Edited October 16, 2018 by (PS4)Mr-TRAPxx
Missing words

[(PSN)calvin_0]

frame fighter is just a fun mini game for bored people to waste time on and you want DE to turn it into a full fledge fighting game that can be taken to Evo?

[Nitro747]

DE already said its dead content and they'll never touch on that again. You know, just what they do with 95% of what they ship to this game.