Timed Exclusive Plus RNG is a Bad Game Mechanic

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17 часов назад, Nitro747 сказал:

They made the return of Tactical Alerts and the Rift Sigil exactly because it was a "one time" event sort of thing and some people like the OP here raged that the Sigil "lost its exclusivity"

They returned the reward. Not the alert. Original alert ( phoenix intercept - escalation where sigil was a guaranteed reward) was a 5 wave interception against lv 100-130 grineer on Draco.

And about 80% of the whining that followed was exactly about that, some of our special snowflakes though that interception was more difficult than the proxy rebellion (while staying silent about the fact that most warframes were more powerful than they are now even if the weapons were weaker). While I don't care about that in particular I don't understand why there was a need to change the alert. Oh well at least it wasn't a 5 wave interception against lv 120+ corpus. But then again, there were no nullifiers in this one so who gives a .

In short nothing makes sense.

[FallenDemonX]

I tried selling my extra Argon Scope and turns out is not as expensive as I thought. My point is that events come and go, Acolytes show up once a year or so and let´s face it, Torment and Violence are the only ones worth it (and maybe Agnst for Body Count, which is a common mod).

 

I see how losing your chance at an event can be frustrating because now not all the player base has access to that particular gear option. I am farming for a Zaw and everytime I ask for advice I have to specify I dont have plague parts. Thing is, this event happened twice already so there is no reason to think there wont be another time, Fortuna might have its own event for when it comes out and more events with cool stuff are on the horizon. Other games have this, so I fail to see your concern. 

[Vedfur]

if the mods would be alot easier to farm people wouldn't have anything to farm or look forward too.

''oh another acolyte event, no need to do them since i already got everything from them and they don't sell for much since everyone already got them.''

look at it this way, next time acolytes appear you have something to do, as i got argon scope and meme stikre i don't really care about doing it other than to plat.

 

also is a event in warframe a good excuse in your opinion to neglect dog? 

[(PSN)hereticSky]

18 hours ago, Padrey said:

One question: would changing the acolyte event to be structured more like plague star or baro kiteer (farm acolytes -> get currency -> buy mods) be bad? If so, why?

It wouldn't be bad per se, at least not in the beginning. But it'd make it incredibly easy if anything. It'd also be dull because it's just like every other event. I'm not sure if you realized Warframe offers variety above all else. So if every event is the same, essentially, same progression, this becomes just repititive. 

Another issue I see with this, as mentioned before, acolytes have only that, mods. There's really no other rewards. And even some of those mods can come acquired elsewhere. To make this simple event even simpler, easier, would rob it of any allure. Because of the exclusivity and difficulty of getting these mods, however useful or useless they may be, it attracts people. And the excitement of finding where the acolytes are and then hunting them, it's all part of that appeal.

Baro doesn't have this appeal. He comes along every two weeks, brings some stuff you may or may not have already, and stays for a day and bounces. This is a completely different mechanic. Shorter duration, higher frequency, bigger reward pool.

Plague star is entirely different event gaming somewhere in between Baro and acolytes, where the rewards are guaranteed but the frequency is less so and the duration is about the same. 

At the end of the day, different events have different mechanics which is fine, not every thing has to be the same. Understand that variety is overall the better choice even if in that instance it's not what you prefer.

Also, hyperbole aside, you play however long you want to play. If it's keeping you from other things, that's entirely your choice to make. The game is not responsible for catering to your life. You log in, you partake in the experience, you log out. If you feel like you're spending more time than you should, that's a choice you're consciously making. So please, don't be that guy.

[(XBOX)Stone Free x]

hace 21 horas, Padrey dijo:

Warframe has featured a 3 day long timed exclusive event that handed out rewards using pure RNG. You can only earn those rewards during those few days. This event happens twice a year. It can take you as little as an hour to get what you need or you can spend all weekend frustrated and end up screwed. I participated in this event and I was lucky enough to find everything I wanted from the event. This is a post regarding my experience, not a rage about not getting what I wanted - because I did get what I wanted. I just really hated the experience. 

You may notice i am being vague about what exactly the event was and the rewards it was tied to were. I am doing this on purpose because many people have written feedback on this and sooo many players pretentiously flooded in with their responses about how their critique is invalid because the mods you get as rewards "aren't actually that good and is completely replaceable with X mod." To those people, please know -->   HOW GOOD/NECESSARY THE REWARDS ARE DO NOT MATTER, THIS IS ABOUT THE GAME MECHANIC OF DISTRIBUTING THOSE REWARDS, ALSO KNOWN AS PROGRESSION MECHANICS. Got that??? Good....

TLDR: I don't want timed exclusive loot events to be less grindy. I just don't like the RNG plus timed exclusive... for reasons i list below. DE should make every event like this based on a currency system with an NPC like Baro Ki'teer.

The whole vaulting and unvaulting thing is based on this progression mechanic (RNG plus limited time to farm), but is completely fine because the whole thing lasts two months. You have two months to farm the RNG slot machine. DE is more than generous with this, providing even more to the Mt Everest sized pile of evidence that they truly respect the player's money and time that they spend supporting this game. 

Another even more - really awesome timed exclusive game mechanic within Warframe is Baro Ki'Teer. He is the sole provider of many of the games best items (Supra Vandal, primed mods etc). The reason why people don't get nearly as tilted about his scarcity (and the inaccessibility of things like primed Mods) is that when he comes around, the game gives you a clear roadmap to earn the items you want via the Ducat currency. You hop into void relic missions and at the end, even if everyone rolled bronze tier items, we still made progress towards out goal! Combine that with the other benefits of people using vaulted relics or finding blueprints of items we actually also need, the whole experience is really rewarding and fun.

Compare this to an event that provides a 3 day short window once every 6-8 months that subjects players to low probability RNG; it is so out of place within this game. It forces you to play within that window and even if you are fortunate enough to not have other commitments (family functions, Busy work schedule, anything else that happens in life, etc) you still have to commit a completely unknown amount of time within that window. It does not respect the players time, seemingly the antithesis of what DE is about. In this event, the chances of landing the some of the rare rewards are close to 1 in 25 per run. Plug that into a calculator and you can see that 30% of the player base wont have the item they want after 30 runs.16% of the player base wont have it after 45. The reason why this sucks is that the 16% of the player base who just spent hours online still have a 1 in 25 chance of finding the mod on their next run. There is no progress being made on a failed attempt, which would be fine if we were not on a real world timer! 

After 50 runs of this event, I had been sitting at my PC for way too long. My GF was disappointed I didn't want to go on a hike with her because I felt that would be a waste of event weekend time. My dog was giving me the saddest of puppy eyes because he hasn't been to the park that day. And what did i have to show for it? Nothing... not a thing It took me approximately 55 runs of this event to get what I wanted. When I finally got it, I didn't feel accomplished like i do with every other progression mechanic within the game. I was just relieved it was over and I never have to farm for an argon scope aga... oh no. i said it.

Now you know this is about the acolyte event. Incoming community members swooping in to miss the point completely and brag about how they think  "actually Argon Scope is completely replaceable by hunter munitions, ect"  in 5...4....3...

Bro, dont waste your time trying to start a conversation on this forum, people are just plain ztupid and cant have a discussion without they acting irrational and offended because you dont like the bad design choices the devs make, i really got your point, and i think its a good idea, but you are not going to accomplish anything, believe me i just enter the forums to grab a laugh at those idiotz

[(PSN)NicolaiBM]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)hereticSky said:

It wouldn't be bad per se, at least not in the beginning. But it'd make it incredibly easy if anything. It'd also be dull because it's just like every other event. I'm not sure if you realized Warframe offers variety above all else. So if every event is the same, essentially, same progression, this becomes just repititive. 

Another issue I see with this, as mentioned before, acolytes have only that, mods. There's really no other rewards. And even some of those mods can come acquired elsewhere. To make this simple event even simpler, easier, would rob it of any allure. Because of the exclusivity and difficulty of getting these mods, however useful or useless they may be, it attracts people. And the excitement of finding where the acolytes are and then hunting them, it's all part of that appeal.

Baro doesn't have this appeal. He comes along every two weeks, brings some stuff you may or may not have already, and stays for a day and bounces. This is a completely different mechanic. Shorter duration, higher frequency, bigger reward pool.

Plague star is entirely different event gaming somewhere in between Baro and acolytes, where the rewards are guaranteed but the frequency is less so and the duration is about the same. 

At the end of the day, different events have different mechanics which is fine, not every thing has to be the same. Understand that variety is overall the better choice even if in that instance it's not what you prefer.

Also, hyperbole aside, you play however long you want to play. If it's keeping you from other things, that's entirely your choice to make. The game is not responsible for catering to your life. You log in, you partake in the experience, you log out. If you feel like you're spending more time than you should, that's a choice you're consciously making. So please, don't be that guy.

Warframe's variety comes in the form of different repetitive content to grind for the rewards you want, boil it down even further and it is repetitive in everything you do. Bounties on the plains, eidolons and fissure missions are just farming simulator space edition, add in eso/xini/io/ods or where ever your prefered relic farm is, it's still just more of the same. The different event does not have different mechanics, they're reskinned versions of already existing mechanics. I'm not saying warframe is bad, because I think it is a good game (or at least the idea behind it), I'm just saying don't give it credit it doesn't not deserve. Be critical about your approach and be even more critical on ideas for solutions.

As for acolytes and any other even for that matter, the only thing they offer reward wise is a couple of mods and/or mr fodder weapons. Don't glorify them by any stretch of the imagination, they are overall just a snooze fest of the same grind we already have. I think the plains event have a goodish approach to things, with the ability to buy resouces that otherwise would be just about the annoying farming possible, the rewards are fine for the tier it's at, the only thing you could wish for, was something other than hunter munitions to be useful after the event is done. Baro Ki'Troll is by far the best implantation of currency based rewards, as he offers you a way to make your junk useful. We're already spending hours farming prime junk in the hopes to sell it on the market, imagine just how much prime junk you'd have without him.

[(PSN)hereticSky]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)NicolaiBM said:

Warframe's variety comes in the form of different repetitive content to grind for the rewards you want, boil it down even further and it is repetitive in everything you do. Bounties on the plains, eidolons and fissure missions are just farming simulator space edition, add in eso/xini/io/ods or where ever your prefered relic farm is, it's still just more of the same. The different event does not have different mechanics, they're reskinned versions of already existing mechanics. I'm not saying warframe is bad, because I think it is a good game (or at least the idea behind it), I'm just saying don't give it credit it doesn't not deserve. Be critical about your approach and be even more critical on ideas for solutions.

As for acolytes and any other even for that matter, the only thing they offer reward wise is a couple of mods and/or mr fodder weapons. Don't glorify them by any stretch of the imagination, they are overall just a snooze fest of the same grind we already have. I think the plains event have a goodish approach to things, with the ability to buy resouces that otherwise would be just about the annoying farming possible, the rewards are fine for the tier it's at, the only thing you could wish for, was something other than hunter munitions to be useful after the event is done. Baro Ki'Troll is by far the best implantation of currency based rewards, as he offers you a way to make your junk useful. We're already spending hours farming prime junk in the hopes to sell it on the market, imagine just how much prime junk you'd have without him.

This is a very contradicting post.

First you say all of the events are the same, just reskinned. If that's true, then this post wouldn't exist. This is the first contradiction to the op.

Then you go and say that the rewards do acolytes are just some mods. Which is true, I agree. But this is the second contradiction to the op.

I've never said Warframe is the perfect have but it's a much better choice than the majority that's out there. If the current options seem to be some sort of time gated RNG vs lootboxes, then I'll absolutely pick the prior.

As for bad decisions made by developers... That is an extremely shortsighted comment because it takes a series of decisions and months of toil to get a product like this. And to even offer it free of charge, without incessant lootboxes, are you spoiled or what? Warframe has its problems I'll admit but this isn't one of them nor is this the topic for that.

[(PSN)NicolaiBM]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)hereticSky said:

This is a very contradicting post.

First you say all of the events are the same, just reskinned. If that's true, then this post wouldn't exist. This is the first contradiction to the op.

Then you go and say that the rewards do acolytes are just some mods. Which is true, I agree. But this is the second contradiction to the op.

I've never said Warframe is the perfect have but it's a much better choice than the majority that's out there. If the current options seem to be some sort of time gated RNG vs lootboxes, then I'll absolutely pick the prior.

As for bad decisions made by developers... That is an extremely shortsighted comment because it takes a series of decisions and months of toil to get a product like this. And to even offer it free of charge, without incessant lootboxes, are you spoiled or what? Warframe has its problems I'll admit but this isn't one of them nor is this the topic for that.

Nothing contradicting about it, just boiling it down to the bare essentials about what the events are. This topic is about the rewards from timegated events, just like the acolytes, so having the same farming method as the rest of the game is a bad idea. Have you forgotten how it goes with the acolytes? Sit around and do nothing until the acolyte in rotation shows up, get as many speed runs in as possible, repeat.

As for bad decisions made by the devs, you point it out yourself. "It takes a series of decisions and months of toil to make a game like this", but it only takes 5 minutes to take a step back and be critical about your own idea andsay "is this a good idea and what problems does my idea have"

As for being spoiled, let's not pretend for a second DE is the same struggling to stay afloat company they used to be, 2016 they had an income of 58+ million USD, LeYou bought 61% for 73 million dollars, so despite it being free to play, they're doing fine and it's time for DE and LeYou to start fixing issues instead of just piling on more content having yo suffer through the same issues. Even add in a little common sense, where do you think the platinum in the market comes from? It's not the 50 free starter, because you can't trade that.