Helping Saryn

[Regar]

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I know that i'm not the only one that came out with this topic, and that's exactely because of this that i decided to say my opinion.

think that DE should really consider sitting around a table and think hard on a way to get saryn back to business. (i'm not saying that they aren't working about it , maybe they have something ongoin already, who knows D:)

 

First of all i want to say that I love her, her design and her abilities, but as a fan of her I also go to face reality: She hasn't a definite role as many other character in the game. I mean, I first thought that she was supposed to be a tanky melee hero with a nice CC, but as she is now she is just a 2000 healt/shield girl with a aoe half nuke and half cc and nothing more.

 

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Let's consider the expectations and the reality of her personality and characteristics:

 

Defensive Function

in order to be tanky, u not only need decent stats (thing that she clearly has), but u also need to generate aggro, to absorb part of the damage and to have the a possibility to avoid CC to be near a teammate when he needs it.

The only skill that generate some aggro here is a poor distracting decoy which as nothing more then loki's one (except for the fact that it's floating). 

 

Melee Function

To use your melee u need to avoid/ignore the CCs/Damage (like loki/ash while being invisibile, or loki that disarm enemies valyr while being in her ult or rhino with the ironskin) You can't ignorantly boost your damage and attempt a melee attack (even Valyr, which is supposed to be the most impulsive melee hero ingame, slows enemy with battlecry)

 

Disabling Function

It's also true that she has 1 nice CC, but it just stun enemies for a short period of time while other characters can slow em down or block em completely for minutes.  She compensates with a nice dose of damage but i think that's not much "in character" (if u don't know what i mean, i mean something that follows the natural behaviours of a character)

 

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After analyzing all this, I would like to think about some possible solutions.

So, let's discuss about her abilities, my key of interpretation is thinking more about her natural behavious (A tanky mistress of venoms which use her affinity with poisons to both facing and disabling enemies)

 

Venom

Over complicated ability that deals low aoe damages.

in fact i love how this ability is designed to work, spreading spores on all enemies in the room intoxicating the air, but do u really think that is damage the main porpose of a skill like that? why not adding a debuff instead? Like slowing enemies, or decreasing their accuracy/damage

 

Molt

just one word, why? why a caracter with such health and shields should ever try to escape from enemies with a decoy? In fact i love the idea of her skin left behind to decept enemies, but it's too weak and unecessary to Saryn

She needs something to incentrate the damage on her or something to prevent his fellow to get killed. if you really wanted some defensive mechanism to let her move on the battleground with ease, there's a possible solution:

A venomous web that prevent nearby enemies from using their legs (that means also not being able to turn) and mybe prevent them to perform some actions, like shield bashing or ground pounching) So basically u can use this both to lock the enemie attention on saryn and or to retreat. (it will be overeffective on infested, that's why i advice simply to slow infested movements)

 

Contagion

Yay, melee damage boost! For yourself (while there are much better abilities that affect allies too, battle roar and roar for instance) with a complicated mechanism to calculate the damage (it works like a mod, that means a % of the weapon basic damage like impact slash and puncture, not increased by other elemental damages or mods that give slash impact or puncture, cause those otehr mods are calculated after the elemental damage, this means that u only get a bonus from those mods like pressure point , rending strike and smite factions)

That's it's not that effective on high lvls and should require another ability to make the melee fight confortable. (i know that i'm repeating myself, but try thinking about rhino with roar and iron skin, loki with invisibility and radial disarm, or valyr with histeria and warcry).

As for the other skills i think that DE thought right for the first part of the developing, tanky and melee are really well shaped together, but not this way. If u can't avoid CCs u are not a melee fighter, u are just sucidal.

 

i have a couple of ideas:

First of all make it easy to calculate like invisibility and or roar.

Then add something peculiar, sharing the buff with team mates might be riski, so i'd like to see an overextending melee range on her attacks, like as she releases extra venom toxin on each attack which flows from her weapons to the enemies by air dealing toxic damage With this simple idea u can achive avoiding many CCs and also open a new way to play with your melee. (i'm not thinking about a 20m swing, more like 1 or 2 meters max, maybe a % based calculation like reach wont be bad)

 

Miasma

I already found really weird and fancy ways to rework other abilities, but i love miasma as it is, it just needs to be rebalanced and refreshed, that's why I'll say: less damage, more disables!

DE came out with this fancy Damage 2.0 with new damage types, proc chances and side effect on procs, why don't we use these new mechanics to valorize saryn? why don't u make miasma half corrosive half viral damage with 100% proc? (reduction to health and armor) that will make a very nice ult not only for the inatial stun, but for the disables on enemies that can help other damage/based teammates to hit harder!

 

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Disclaimer

I'm not here to say that my ideas MUST BE IN GAME, i just wanted to make people think, how saryn is right now, and how she could be with a rework on her abilities: Saryn, The super sexy mistress of venoms that supports her friends in the hardest moments of the battle (i'm not sayign that this will easy to rework, concepts are easy to find, but coding and making something work is way more complicated).

 

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Greetings, Regar

Edited January 8, 2014 by Regar

[VoidPunch]

I thought she was a Damage over time specialist.

 

The only skill I would like changed is contagion. Melee doesn't fit into her arsenal at all, maybe if it added a smaller amount of toxic damage to all her weapons then I would be perfectly happy, all her other abilities work for me, she is my second favorite frame, probably ties for first how she is

Edited January 8, 2014 by HandsOfnArtist

[HumboldtZ]

I want to play Saryn as a disease/venom spreader that keeps all enemies afflicted with her poisons, causes status effects (this is her endgame "utility"), while being able to tank and melee pretty well. This is how I would tweak her:

 

Venom: I just want to be able to spread Venom consistently and have it proc Viral status and do its DoT. Right now its a little too wonky and inconsistent. It should auto pop/spread spores upon enemy death and have a longer spore lifespan or something with a very high viral status chance

 

Molt: Why not a max of 4 or more molts just for fun

 

Contagion: Maybe melee 2.0 will make this skill desirable but right now it sucks. It should either do more damage, apply to guns also, or apply to team. Synergy with Venom (spore pop/spread) would be great also

 

Miasma: Its good as is, but very high status chance for the Contagious armor debuff would give her much needed endgame usefulness

[Regar]

I thought she was a Damage over time specialist.

"Being dot specialist" is not a game role, it's just a damage mechanic

and nope, you are not helping solving the problems :<

Edited January 8, 2014 by Regar

[VoidPunch]

"Being dot specialist" is not a game role, it's just a damage mechanic

Well what do you consider game roles because typically there are only a few general ones, attacker, defender/support, healer, and stealth. In those I would say shes attacker, besides, not every warframe has a definite role, that's what makes them versatile.

[Regar]

Well what do you consider game roles because typically there are only a few general ones, attacker, defender/support, healer, and stealth. In those I would say shes attacker, besides, not every warframe has a definite role, that's what makes them versatile.

They are versatiles in different roles (not all of em), that's why each of em have more then 1 role, it's up to u with mods to balance it

 

Anyway, u are clearly here to argue, and i'm a quiet guy who preferes to avoid such kind of anger from others

Edited January 8, 2014 by Regar

[Syzodia]

Ok, as a virtually exclusive saryn player, I'll address each of your points about her powers:

(Mind you, I do not think of saryn as tanky and/or melee - I think of her as a durable, versatile fighter (and agile, but her speed stat says otherwise))

Venom

Over complicated ability that deals low aoe damages.

in fact i love how this ability is designed to work, spreading spores on all enemies in the room intoxicating the air, but do u really think that is damage the main porpose of a skill like that? why not adding a debuff instead? Like slowing enemies, or decreasing their accuracy/damage

IMO, the only tweak this power needs to be "perfect" in my book is an [auto spore pop/spread] when the spore's "host" dies. It's annoying when you use venom on an enemy, only for it to die the next tick.

And venom already debuffs...it's called viral status proc.

Do you know what it does?

-25% HP. (I think it's relative to max HP but it's probably based on current)

Molt

just one word, why? why a caracter with such health and shields should ever try to escape from enemies with a decoy? In fact i love the idea of her skin left behind to decept enemies, but it's too weak and unecessary to Saryn

She needs something to incentrate the damage on her or something to prevent his fellow to get killed. if you really wanted some defensive mechanism to let her move on the battleground with ease, there's a possible solution:

A venomous web that prevent nearby enemies from using their legs (that means also not being able to turn) and mybe prevent them to perform some actions, like shield bashing or ground pounching) So basically u can use this both to lock the enemie attention on saryn and or to retreat. (it will be overeffective on infested, that's why i advice simply to slow infested movements)

Molt is fun, and awesome. I'd prefer it if molt actually had health/shields scale with the original saryn's respective stats, and scaling HIGHER (at higher ranks).

Somethings you should really try:

 

• Use molt at the peak of your jump in an infested mission.
• Use molt but stay inside it - hide in your own.....hide = shield recharge!
• use molt right next to you, to attract fire (temporarily) whilst you revive a teammate
• Use molt behind cover - enemies still go for the deadskin but it has added protection

 

Venomous Web.....reaaally?

I'm pretty sure she's been designed with a snake in mind, hence why the profile video describes her as "Elusive but deadly". Snake hides are also quite durable, and the snakes themselves are.....well, mostly venomous.

Not a spider. Spiders aren't even tanky.

Contagion

Yay, melee damage boost! For yourself (while there are much better abilities that affect allies too, battle roar and roar for instance) with a complicated mechanism to calculate the damage (it works like a mod, that means a % of the weapon basic damage like impact slash and puncture, not increased by other elemental damages or mods that give slash impact or puncture, cause those otehr mods are calculated after the elemental damage, this means that u only get a bonus from those mods like pressure point , rending strike and smite factions)

That's it's not that effective on high lvls and should require another ability to make the melee fight confortable. (i know that i'm repeating myself, but try thinking about rhino with roar and iron skin, loki with invisibility and radial disarm, or valyr with histeria and warcry).

As for the other skills i think that DE thought right for the first part of the developing, tanky and melee are really well shaped together, but not this way. If u can't avoid CCs u are not a melee fighter, u are just sucidal.

 

i have a couple of ideas:

First of all make it easy to calculate like invisibility and or roar.

Then add something peculiar, sharing the buff with team mates might be riski, so i'd like to see an overextending melee range on her attacks, like as she releases extra venom toxin on each attack which flows from her weapons to the enemies by air dealing toxic damage With this simple idea u can achive avoiding many CCs and also open a new way to play with your melee. (i'm not thinking about a 20m swing, more like 1 or 2 meters max, maybe a % based calculation like reach wont be bad)

Worst ability in her array, IMO, but all it would need in my opinion is to extend its effects to guns as well.

Alternatively, keep it as it is but make it work like acrid - guaranteed toxin, that is stackable (and perhaps exponential). Then the power description will actually make sense: "Spreading disease with each strike"

I understand that this relates to how snakes spread venom through their fangs, but in this game it needs a buff in one way or another (like the two I suggested).

"Leaking venom" with each melee strike is actually a good one too (as you suggested), which reaches multiple enemies...just make it stackable like acrid.

 

Btw, how is this even hard to calculate...?

Miasma

I already found really weird and fancy ways to rework other abilities, but i love miasma as it is, it just needs to be rebalanced and refreshed, that's why I'll say: less damage, more disables!

DE came out with this fancy Damage 2.0 with new damage types, proc chances and side effect on procs, why don't we use these new mechanics to valorize saryn? why don't u make miasma half corrosive half viral damage with 100% proc? (reduction to health and armor) that will make a very nice ult not only for the inatial stun, but for the disables on enemies that can help other damage/based teammates to hit harder!

Miasma with a viral component and 100% proc is basically guaranteed kill: 4 ticks, -25% hp = insta kill (unless the viral proc works on current HP, rather than max).

It's fine as it is, but if I were to buff it, I'd say: make miasma leave a venom spill in its effective range on cast! All enemies who tread this spill get the corrosive proc (and some damage).

 

Now that aside...

I probably love her BECAUSE she doesn't have a "definite/specfic role" (versatile), Which is also why she isn't in very high demand in most teams, but she can solo just fine.

You should be glad that in i think 11.4 they actually buffed Saryn: Venom to its former glory, molt actually scales in durability and ofcourse the much needed damage 2.0 attributes to her venom/miasma.

If anything of her needs buffing, it would be contagion and her speed (right now it's 0.95 (rhino = 0.90) - bring it back to 1, at least...). Everything else is fine for now

edit: Box'd for economy.

Edited January 8, 2014 by Syzodia

[Infamous_Dwarf]

Ok, as a virtually exclusive saryn player, I'll address each of your points about her powers:

 

Ohai saryn player, what do you think of my build? What build do you use, and how high lvl def/sur can you get wtih her?

 

[Syzodia]

Ohai saryn player, what do you think of my build? What build do you use, and how high lvl def/sur can you get wtih her?

Should I mention that I'm more casual than hardcore (though inbetween on that scale)?

I don't have fleeting expertise, but instead of that and stretch I use vitality and Rush/fortitude/master thief (depends on the situation).

And my aura is rifle amp.

Redirection/vitality are I think rank 6 - powers maxed and the rest are rank 4.

As you might be able to tell: I don't use powers often.

 

Sometimes I do survival solo just because I want to use up my remaining revives...

the last time I did an infested survival (on Mimas, Saturn, during infestation outbreaks), my solo was about 43 minutes (I was about to extract when life support hit zero but then I got a lag spike and an ancient in the extraction room slapped me....*failed* but close enough).

 

Your build looks fine to me....

but was that question supposed to be arrogant/sarcastic?

[Infamous_Dwarf]

but was that question supposed to be arrogant/sarcastic?

 

Nope, t' was a serious question.

[Syzodia]

Nope, t' was a serious question.

Ok.

Because my first impression was: "Is this guy trying to show off at me?"

Have fun :)

[Regar]

 

Ok, as a virtually exclusive saryn player, I'll address each of your points about her powers:

(Mind you, I do not think of saryn as tanky and/or melee - I think of her as a durable, versatile fighter (and agile, but her speed stat says otherwise))

 

IMO, the only tweak this power needs to be "perfect" in my book is an [auto spore pop/spread] when the spore's "host" dies. It's annoying when you use venom on an enemy, only for it to die the next tick.

And venom already debuffs...it's called viral status proc.

Do you know what it does?

-25% HP. (I think it's relative to max HP but it's probably based on current)

Molt is fun, and awesome. I'd prefer it if molt actually had health/shields scale with the original saryn's respective stats, and scaling HIGHER (at higher ranks).

Somethings you should really try:

 

• Use molt at the peak of your jump in an infested mission.
• Use molt but stay inside it - hide in your own.....hide = shield recharge!
• use molt right next to you, to attract fire (temporarily) whilst you revive a teammate
• Use molt behind cover - enemies still go for the deadskin but it has added protection

 

Venomous Web.....reaaally?

I'm pretty sure she's been designed with a snake in mind, hence why the profile video describes her as "Elusive but deadly". Snake hides are also quite durable, and the snakes themselves are.....well, mostly venomous.

Not a spider. Spiders aren't even tanky.

Worst ability in her array, IMO, but all it would need in my opinion is to extend its effects to guns as well.

Alternatively, keep it as it is but make it work like acrid - guaranteed toxin, that is stackable (and perhaps exponential). Then the power description will actually make sense: "Spreading disease with each strike"

I understand that this relates to how snakes spread venom through their fangs, but in this game it needs a buff in one way or another (like the two I suggested).

"Leaking venom" with each melee strike is actually a good one too (as you suggested), which reaches multiple enemies...just make it stackable like acrid.

 

Btw, how is this even hard to calculate...?

Miasma with a viral component and 100% proc is basically guaranteed kill: 4 ticks, -25% hp = insta kill (unless the viral proc works on current HP, rather than max).

It's fine as it is, but if I were to buff it, I'd say: make miasma leave a venom spill in its effective range on cast! All enemies who tread this spill get the corrosive proc (and some damage).

 

Now that aside...

I probably love her BECAUSE she doesn't have a "definite/specfic role" (versatile), Which is also why she isn't in very high demand in most teams, but she can solo just fine.

You should be glad that in i think 11.4 they actually buffed Saryn: Venom to its former glory, molt actually scales in durability and ofcourse the much needed damage 2.0 attributes to her venom/miasma.

If anything of her needs buffing, it would be contagion and her speed (right now it's 0.95 (rhino = 0.90) - bring it back to 1, at least...). Everything else is fine for now

 

 

yes, i know what viral do, i wrote it too, health reduction, and i'm pretty sure that's not stackable (but i'm not sure)

 

I find the molt scaling health with max health an interesting idea, my idea is trying to think outside of the box to shake the creativity from others

 

another thing,I'm actually glad that she had her dameges shaped to damage 2.0 but i really think that she still lacks something.

there also another bunch of frames that need reworks,(single target skills are not that effective except against boss, and most of em don't work on em xD) but i just wanted to start with saryn cause i would like to play with her on higer levels without feeling like "the guy with the unuseful frame but with good weapons"

 

anyway u should try reading at concepts with more ease, without thinking that much about numbers (i personally tried to not write a signle number, but i forgot about %, sorry)

 

 

so, that's it, keep up with new ideas, we need em!

[Syzodia]

yes, i know what viral do, i wrote it too, health reduction, and i'm pretty sure that's not stackable (but i'm not sure)

 

I find the molt scaling health with max health an interesting idea, my idea is trying to think outside of the box to shake the creativity from others

 

another thing,I'm actually glad that she had her dameges shaped to damage 2.0 but i really think that she still lacks something.

there also another bunch of frames that need reworks,(single target skills are not that effective except against boss, and most of em don't work on em xD) but i just wanted to start with saryn cause i would like to play with her on higer levels without feeling like "the guy with the unuseful frame but with good weapons"

 

anyway u should try reading at concepts with more ease, without thinking that much about numbers (i personally tried to not write a signle number, but i forgot about %, sorry)

 

 

so, that's it, keep up with new ideas, we need em!

 

Well, I'm more mathematic than literate, so I prefer |\|(_)MB3R5...usually.

I Honestly don't know if viral stacks either...but that'd be hard to test with current status proc rates...i htink.

 

It is true that many other frames have their own powers that need adjusting. As for saryn, I don't know what you think is "missing" other than what you've suggested already.

 

but i just wanted to start with saryn cause i would like to play with her on higer levels without feeling like "the guy with the unuseful frame but with good weapons"

I wouldn't say she is "useless" at higher levels (BAM CORROSIVE!)....more often than not I feel like I'm not being USED.

#1 scenario is when allies completely ignore my venom spores, or try to pop them when it is the only target. Ugh, that irritates me SO MUCH.

Something else that annoys me is when I'm in an infested mission and a loki pops up decoy....just for decoy (and not switch teleporting). Uhm, loki? You're wasting your decoy; my molt is hardly even being damaged and is doing the same thing as your decoy...which is already dead.

/endrant

I don't use my powers very often anyway - normally it's just my weapons that do the job. To the point where I virtually never use Miasma (I even use contagion more often!)

 

That aside...

 

I want saryn prime.

[-CM-Syein]

Saryn is a damage overtime frame, however, that only work for enemies that took long to kill, such as high level heavy gunner, ancients, or possibly napalm etc. Other than that, as a damage overtime specialist, most frames can outclass her easily. 

For opinion, some said she is useless at high level, but i feel like she more useful as high level. (or dps more at high level). Mobs that are hard to kill, required overtime dps. 

[Kaidinah]

Gonna put in my normal Saryn suggestion. Make Molt explode when killed. Make Molt explode into a AOE toxic damage DOT. That way it is bait with a trap. Roses have thorns!

[Syzodia]

Gonna put in my normal Saryn suggestion. Make Molt explode when killed. Make Molt explode into a AOE toxic damage DOT. That way it is bait with a trap. Roses have thorns!

Oh my goodness, THIS!!!!

And maybe attach some venom spores to those enemies too <3

[Ohmlink]

I personally would like her #1 skill changed to a poison cloud. Works like it does now, but instead of hitting one target it could hit multiple. They could even keep the spores fuctionality as they work now. Other change is to make her DOT's actually deal damage, ticks of 10 don't get you very far a buff to damage would be helpful.

 

Adding utility to her skillset would go a long way.

[Regar]

Gonna put in my normal Saryn suggestion. Make Molt explode when killed. Make Molt explode into a AOE toxic damage DOT. That way it is bait with a trap. Roses have thorns!

 

this sounds nice

[NDroid]

I think Venom could be viable if it's given a 100% proc chance (and ideally automatic spread if the target dies). The proc doesn't stack as far as I know and since Venom has no utility outside of pure damage it needs something to make it useful against higher level enemies since the damage component isn't that high. A guaranteed proc would make Venom useful for softening up groups of clustered targets. Or we could always bring the old Venom back..

 

As for Contagion, it is pretty lackluster but a lot of it has to do with the state of melee in general. It might become more useful once the melee rework comes out but having it apply to all weapons would still help though.