Void/derelicts/rewards Re-Vamp (Updated 1/5)

[WondahBoah]

Note: This is kinda radical. I like radical. Do you?

Prime Access, Derelict Navs, and Vault Keys are removed.
 

Instead of killing off all keys like originally intended, we'll simplify entry keys to T1, 2, and 3 Void and Derelict keys. Six, and only six different kinds. With a key, you can enter any mission (so long as it has been unlocked, read on) of the corresponding difficulty and location.

 

Moving on...

 

@ Make Derelicts and Void into planet-like hubs...

...with selectable difficulties (T1 - T3). Each difficulty can be unlocked by playing through all the nodes of one difficulty. This applies to Derelicts too. Want a real challenge? T3 J-2000 is there for you crazies.

 

Maybe have an Orokin Deity be the Void boss? Maybe it's Hayden Tenno himself, corrupted and grown by the Void.

 

<> The Lotus gives the player a quest message at Mastery 2 along the lines of this: "We believe you are ready blah blah blah these are the coordinates to this sacred place blah blah master the Void/sanctify the Derelicts blah blah blah TENNOOOOOO."

<> Yes, you must be mastery 2 to enter the Void/Derelicts.

 

<> On the galaxy map the Void and Derelicts would be situated above and below the Sol system (dat subliminal Heaven and Hell, amirite?)
 

<> Public Void/Derelict matches will now be a thing, to make it easier to play with groups. Just trying to clean the recruit chat a little.

@ Implement moderate-to-expensive token shop system.

<> Tokens are awarded at the end of a mission.

 

T1 missions: 1-2 tokens, T2: 2-4, T3: 3-6.

 

Linear missions [Capture, Exterminate] will award lower amounts, Semi-Linear missions [Mobile Defense] award middle amounts, and Endless mission [Defense, Survival] awards are based on how long you stay (Every 5 waves/minutes tacks on minimum amount for that difficulty. If you go 20 minutes in T3 Survival that nets 12. 3+3+3+3 = 12 tokens).

 

Assassination awards based on difficulty (T1: 3, T2: 5, T3: 7).

 

<> Get this: Tokens will be shaped like little Void/Derelict keys. Cute, innit? Tokens abbreviated as tk

 

<> Items include Rare material packs (3 of a mat for 45tk), Corrupted mods (75tk ea), Forma (80tk ea), Potatoes (85tk ea), Prime Weapons (275tk+, based on what it is), Prime Warframes (500tk). Frames and weapons are purposely crazy expensive. You need to work HARD for those things.

 

         <> Nekros should be given a new home (I suggest Hades, Pluto. He and Excal can share.)

@ Have Darvo be the Prime/Corrupted item Shopkeeper...

...so he's not completely useless. Give him a "shop" node that can be visited (without a key). Here's some dialogue.

 

<> Darvo: "You won't believe what I found in that madhouse. You also won't believe what I had to do to get it, but let's not talk about that. What'll you buy?/Got anything shiny for me?"

Player bought something? "Did I ever tell you that I love you eyeless freaks?" or "I love money!"

Player doesn't buy anything? "What did you think this was, charity?" or "Are you crazy? These are great deals!"

Player leaves? "Ta-taaa" "Punch the Lotus in the gut for me!" "Good riddance" "Bye-bye now!"
 

<> Darvo: "That mass-produced thing you call a Warframe you've got on is a little dinky, don'tcha think? Tell you what, I'll run it through my Orokintransmogrification thingy, and it'll come out like one of the originals. You Tenno like vintage, right? It's gonna cost you a lot of tokens, and I'm afraid your frame will be reset to level zero. Don't worry, I'll transmogrificate your extra helmets too, free of charge. Whaddya say?" ***


Priming details***

Frame transformation cost: 300 tokens, and a level 30 Warframe of the kind you'd like.

 

Priming a frame should be a progression milestone, preparing you for endgame (when we get a real one), so with this it would be ok if it's a little more powerful. When you prime, you get to pick a polarity for a slot, a la Forma-ing your frame. If it's already perfectly Forma'd, then you can just move on past that part. Stat boosts would be more or less specific to the kind of frame you have (Speed boost, armor/health/shield boost, power boost, efficiency boost, shield regen boost). Also, when entering the Void, turrets will ignore you. Other helmets receive a nice cosmetic priming as well (stat helmets keep stats).

 

Also, you must be Rank 5+ to do this. Don't want any scrubs running around in gold, blowing random s*** up, do we? The low(er) cost of transforming your frame is in place to suggest one should advance their own frame, instead of just buying a prime.

You can go to Darvo at any time to prime a helmet, should you receive it after priming your frame/buying a primed frame. What does Darvo think? "Freeloader." or "Your welcome! Ingrate..."

PGBAQ (Prolly Gonna Be Asked Questions)

~~"How do we, DE, monetize this, WondahBoah? We want the gamers to have fun, but making money is fun too."

Simple.

Token boosters (2x, 3x). Token packs (10, 25, or 50). That way if people want to pay their way to a prime they can do so. I'll look down on them, as should you, but the option will be there.

You could also--don't string me up for this--sell Prime Syandanas that are only compatible with Prime frames.

 

12/26: I suppose Key packs too, but they'll be more direct; people are more likely to get what they want because there is some element of choice now, so they'll probably sell better.

~~"Confused player here. Why doesn't Darvo sell his goods to the Grineer/Corpus? Aren't they after this stuff?"

Darvo answers: "Well the Grineer shoot at me too much, and Alad busted me for trying to sell fake MOA parts... You guys are my only business. Besides, if I told them about this stuff they'd just take it, and I'd make nothing!"

~~"Player-Who-Cried-Powercreep here. Wouldn't making the Primes direct upgrades to the regular frames be powercreep, and break the game?"

Not necessarily, because it's advancing your frame, rather than making another obsolete. I'm saying that frames are all going towards being primed. Obviously at this point there are 3 frames that rule over all the others, but once they are finally well balanced, this would be totally acceptable. Also, Prime frames/Regular frames would count for the same mastery, making them the same exact entity, in a sense.

~~"Owner of a Prime Frame here. How does this affect me?"

Basically your frame will end up getting some kind of buff. You'll have to get your other helmets primed, but that's free. I hope you aren't here to complain?

 

1/5 ~~"DE again. You've eliminated Vault keys, and moved those mods to the token system. How do players get into the Vaults, and what will they earn from it?"

 

Here's my suggestion for Vaults:

 

1. Make them a rare tile spawn in both the Void and Derelicts.

 

2. Implement a brand new hacking game used for unlocking the Vault doors. To each door there are four locks that must be hacked open. If a player is playing solo they must go through all four. If in a group of four, everyone can take a lock to open.

   2a. If a lock is failed, the vault permalocks, alarms go off, and multitudes of enemies spawn.

   2b. Keep Vault key assets as Vault ciphers. Crafting a cipher allows players to unlock the corresponding lock. There is no negative stat attribute.

   2c. Make the hacking game unique; it can function like regular hacking but DON'T call it "Grineer Cipher." Please.

 

3. Loot inside can be as such: Credits caches scaled by tier (T1--4000 T2--9000 T3--15000), energy/health/buttloads of affinity, uncommon/rare (non nightmare/corrupted) mods, rare mats, and fusion cores. There is a small chance that an Orokin artifact will spawn in the center, which will award up 2-5 bonus tokens at the end of the mission, based on difficulty.

   3a. Vaults only spawn in Mobile Defense, Capture, or Exterminate missions.



Off-topic Trailer idea (Trailer to show off Void boss and end-game Prime Frames)

Oberon Prime, Volt Prime, Saryn Prime, and Valkyr Prime (which should have a completely different skillset than Valkyr, except Ripline, but that's a whole 'nother thread.) storm a T3 Void, causing mayhem everywhere: Volt shocks a group, Oberon crushes em with Reckoning. Volt gives Saryn a speed boost, Saryn imubes her Zorens with glowing poison and she hacks through more enemies. Valkyr pulls an enemy to her and she punches them in the face (Obex effect, no Obex. For trailer quality). Oberon lays down a field that roots a ton of enemies, and Valkyr pulls a pillar down onto them.

They bust into the final room, and they see a helmet-less, Orokin-mutant Excal Prime that is twice their size sitting on a golden throne. This is Orokin Corrupted Hayden Tenno. He has extremely long black hair, a crazed smile, and a quarter of his face appears to be torn out. In its stead is an empty black void, and a glowing orb where his eye should be. They other eye glows gold like this as well. He is armed only with his Skana Prime and a Glaive Prime. He stands up, and unsheathes both weapons. At the other end, Volt is charging up and is ready to go, but Oberon blocks Volt's path with his mace as if to say "not yet". Hayden walks down from his throne towards the group, spinning his Glaive like a buzzsaw. Volt is getting uneasy at this point, and sparking like mad. He finally snaps; Volt pops a Speed and draws his Fang daggers, and charges full throttle at Hayden. Oberon hefts his mace, looks to the others and motions to charge in after Volt. He'd probably say "Dammit Volt... Alright, Saryn, Valkyr, on me! Let's save his &amp;#&#33;." Hayden is now sprinting at the others, weapons drawn. Volt leaps in the air towards Hayden, his daggers electrically charged, and Hayden's weapons prolly full of some Orokin magic, and the two collide weapons, sending a flash and a shock wave through the room. (End scene?) The team is buffeted by the force of the shockwave. Volt flies back, Valkyr Ripline's him to safety. The four Tenno stand in Hayden's wake, who is glowing brightly and staring them down. Drum beats that were subtle before grow louder, and the scene cuts towards Hayden's angry, crazy eyes on four accented bass drum beats. (End scene?)

Edit: The purpose of not hiding the PGBAQ is to make sure people go back to try and figure out what the hell I'm talking about. Cheers.

 

Edit 2: I'm thinking each difficulty has a different boss. For example in the derelicts, it could be a different J class Golem for each one. T1 would be J-3, T-2 something like J-600, and T-3 J-2000. Thoughts?

Edited January 5, 2014 by WondahBoah

[Cobalt313]

I kinda like this concept, but instead of eliminating Void keys entirely, I'd say just have tier I, II, and III keys that get you access to different "layers" of the Void, from which you can pick which kind of mission you want to do from there. May or may not be able to use higher-tier keys to play lower-level missions if you so chose.

 

As for Darvo- I thought he already technically ran the Market we normally get our stuff from. Having him run a secret Void shop selling exclusive equipment and Prime blueprints might be pretty interesting, though I wonder how that would effect the normal Void mission drops and such.

 

 

The rest kind of devolves into incomprehensibility though, and as such I have little to say on it other than "Were you in the Void yourself when you made this post?"

[Banansa47]

Genius XD !!!!

[WondahBoah]

I kinda like this concept, but instead of eliminating Void keys entirely, I'd say just have tier I, II, and III keys that get you access to different "layers" of the Void, from which you can pick which kind of mission you want to do from there. May or may not be able to use higher-tier keys to play lower-level missions if you so chose.

 

As for Darvo- I thought he already technically ran the Market we normally get our stuff from. Having him run a secret Void shop selling exclusive equipment and Prime blueprints might be pretty interesting, though I wonder how that would effect the normal Void mission drops and such.

 

 

The rest kind of devolves into incomprehensibility though, and as such I have little to say on it other than "Were you in the Void yourself when you made this post?"

Tryna go key-less here dude. Besides, that gives us more or less the same system we have now.

 

 

I could ask the same of you, I dunno how this is at all incomprehensible.

[Cobalt313]

Tryna go key-less here dude. Besides, that gives us more or less the same system we have now.

 

 

I could ask the same of you, I dunno how this is at all incomprehensible.

But I don't want to lose the satisfaction of earning Keys as login rewards or after several waves of Defense. The whole Keys thing is part of what makes Void missions so special; you can't just drop in there willy-nilly and grind away for Primes as much as you please, you gotta earn that privilege. Sure from one point of view it makes grinding for Primes more frustrating due to all the hoops you have to jump through to do so, but if getting such powerful equipment were easy, why bother with anything less? The only thing about keys I don't like is having disproportionate amounts of keys to missions I don't like to keys to mission types I do like, but getting rid of keys entirely kind of kills the whole point of the Void in my opinion.

 

...okay that was more long-winded and fanboyish than I intended, but hopefully you got my point.

 

 

As for the comprehensibility- it was mostly the layout of your post among the collapsible tabs that threw me off a bit, upon closer inspection it made more sense than I initially thought. Just a typical case something which makes perfect sense to one person not necessarily making perfect sense to everyone else.

 

 

Just a thought on the tokens thing- I understand how it's trying to make the Void drops less random, but personally (again) the random rewards are part of the appeal of Warframe. I'd say have the "void tokens" thing be in addition to standard mission rewards rather than in place of, and make Darvo's shop sell wares not normally dropped in missions or common enough that they wouldn't make Void missions obsolete, so stuff like Formas, Potatoes, and maybe some exclusive low-to-mid tier Prime parts and blueprints, possibly not found anywhere else in the Void. That and/or make his wares for sale randomize at regular intervals from a stash of possible ones, partly for story reasons as he's more or less scavenging for merchandise and partly so buying such valuable stuff from him isn't too easy.

 

 

Those are just my thoughts on such things though, as I may have said I don't like Void stuff being too easily obtained, though streamlining it a bit would still be nice.

[WondahBoah]

But I don't want to lose the satisfaction of earning Keys as login rewards or after several waves of Defense. The whole Keys thing is part of what makes Void missions so special; you can't just drop in there willy-nilly and grind away for Primes as much as you please, you gotta earn that privilege. Sure from one point of view it makes grinding for Primes more frustrating due to all the hoops you have to jump through to do so, but if getting such powerful equipment were easy, why bother with anything less? The only thing about keys I don't like is having disproportionate amounts of keys to missions I don't like to keys to mission types I do like, but getting rid of keys entirely kind of kills the whole point of the Void in my opinion.

 

...okay that was more long-winded and fanboyish than I intended, but hopefully you got my point.

 

 

As for the comprehensibility- it was mostly the layout of your post among the collapsible tabs that threw me off a bit, upon closer inspection it made more sense than I initially thought. Just a typical case something which makes perfect sense to one person not necessarily making perfect sense to everyone else.

 

 

Just a thought on the tokens thing- I understand how it's trying to make the Void drops less random, but personally (again) the random rewards are part of the appeal of Warframe. I'd say have the "void tokens" thing be in addition to standard mission rewards rather than in place of, and make Darvo's shop sell wares not normally dropped in missions or common enough that they wouldn't make Void missions obsolete, so stuff like Formas, Potatoes, and maybe some exclusive low-to-mid tier Prime parts and blueprints, possibly not found anywhere else in the Void. That and/or make his wares for sale randomize at regular intervals from a stash of possible ones, partly for story reasons as he's more or less scavenging for merchandise and partly so buying such valuable stuff from him isn't too easy.

 

 

Those are just my thoughts on such things though, as I may have said I don't like Void stuff being too easily obtained, though streamlining it a bit would still be nice.

 

To be honest, what I'm trying to do here is eliminate the factor of RNG in the void (it's only getting worse), as well as add in a sense of progression (Advancing through difficulty, Priming Frame). And with this, getting Frames and Weapons is anything but easy. If you want a frame, you either have to pay (in tokens) out the &amp;#&#33;, or a pay a little less but have to level a non-Prime frame. What I contemplated doing was adding a mastery rank req in addition to having cleared all the nodes of a difficulty (2, 4, and 6, respectively) to make it so you HAD to spend time playing the game and becoming stronger before taking on the next level of the Void/Derelicts.

 

Looking at Darvo, he could also have a cycle for which weapons and frames are in his shop, but that might complicate things further. We want a streamlined system, even if the things inside are hard to acquire.

 

Another thing we could have done is reduce the amount of tokens given out, or increase the pricing of weapons/frames/priming. Priming I'd say 400, a lv30 frame, and maybe a Forma.

 

Finally, a speculation: A lot of people hate keys. they might like it when they get a key they need, but the RNG, drop dilution, grinding, and generally the whole process can be a turn-off.

 

I think if we had a story + some sort of progression towards the Void/Derelicts, the elimination of keys would not be as scary as you might think.

[Cobalt313]

To be honest, what I'm trying to do here is eliminate the factor of RNG in the void (it's only getting worse), as well as add in a sense of progression (Advancing through difficulty, Priming Frame). And with this, getting Frames and Weapons is anything but easy. If you want a frame, you either have to pay (in tokens) out the &amp;#&#33;, or a pay a little less but have to level a non-Prime frame. What I contemplated doing was adding a mastery rank req in addition to having cleared all the nodes of a difficulty (2, 4, and 6, respectively) to make it so you HAD to spend time playing the game and becoming stronger before taking on the next level of the Void/Derelicts.

 

Looking at Darvo, he could also have a cycle for which weapons and frames are in his shop, but that might complicate things further. We want a streamlined system, even if the things inside are hard to acquire.

 

Another thing we could have done is reduce the amount of tokens given out, or increase the pricing of weapons/frames/priming. Priming I'd say 400, a lv30 frame, and maybe a Forma.

 

Finally, a speculation: A lot of people hate keys. they might like it when they get a key they need, but the RNG, drop dilution, grinding, and generally the whole process can be a turn-off.

 

I think if we had a story + some sort of progression towards the Void/Derelicts, the elimination of keys would not be as scary as you might think.

Which is why my idea limited the number of variables in the random selection pool to have some RNG without it being annoying (keep in mind some places would still make it easier to get certain tier keys).

 

As for story, I personally have been considering the possibility of replacing those random holodeck trials used for level progression for some kind of story-based missions, with cutscenes and everything; placing them in secret Void locations where you are sent to retrieve lost Orokin data or artifacts from special vaults might be a good way to merge the two ideas.

 

I personally don't dislike RNG; it makes the game last longer and gives me a reason to keep playing it. I wouldn't quite be for eliminating RNG altogether, but I have no qualms against narrowing down the odds a bit more.

[Siubijeni]

I would say this is a bit too much, personally. The RNG definitely needs to be looked at, though, as the pool gets as it has... and I think the keys need to be less specific, or at least equal in rarity to each other (the scarcity of Captures is driving me insane... am I the only one who only gets them 1/15 or maybe even 1/20 keys? Probably even worse than that). And I agree that the derelicts should not be behind keys (makes little sense even lore-wise... the derelicts are the Orokin Towers that didn't make it to their hiding spot in the void, are they not?)... maybe they could be replayable alerts that show up pretty regularly (as extra missions, like the Cicero one, not replacement missions) to simulate us having to find them drifting in space. Obviously, the Golem one and his navs could stay--it makes sense in that regard, when we're specifically looking for his ship. But the derelicts being behind keys is ridiculous--we don't want a second Void, and we never will. I'm fine with the void being behind keys because of its more elite status, and the way it fits in with the lore. But the derelict does not deserve that distinction, and no matter how much DE hypes it up and incentivizes it, it never will.

[RCOAS]

I don't agree. Only the RNG needs to change. You remember the trailer of Vor inserting a void key into a machine that enabled him to enter a Orokin Tower to find the Tutorial Tenno?

[Siubijeni]

I don't agree. Only the RNG needs to change. You remember the trailer of Vor inserting a void key into a machine that enabled him to enter a Orokin Tower to find the Tutorial Tenno?

That is part of the reason I agree that Void keys should stay. However, I do agree that they should be broadened, or at least balanced. Capture keys seem to be relatively rare compared to others, which is driving me nuts. I think there should be two base keys: one that allows you to pick Exterm or Capture (Sword Keys?), and one that allows you to pick Survival, MDef, or EDef (Shield Keys?). The Sword keys could include Survival, that one is a bit up the air--heck, both could have survival as an option. But then you need only six keys, T1 Sword and Shield, T2 Sword and Shield, and T3 Sword and Shield. If and when a sixth mission type is added, it balances out (or could be split three ways; for example, if the hinted Escort type was added, you could put it and Capture into Helm keys and move Survival into Sword keys with Exterm).

[Morkislair]

I totally agree.

 

            Void keys drops need to be balanced, even concerning their level (am I the only one who almost never drops a T1? Odd). But I like the idea of them being a key to another dimension. And I also agree, to need keys to access derelict doesn't feel right, but that doesn't really need to be changed a lot: let's call them beacons instead of keys.

 

            After all, they lead to an abandoned ship and we use navigation coordinates to make them. Let's imagine once they are made, they focus on one single signal and therefore can pinpoint one and only one derelict ship. That would make sense and almost nothing would have to be changed.

            Then I'm all for level tiers in derelict ships, to streamline the drops.

 

            But all in all, I don't like the idea of tokens and what follows, for several reasons.

            Badassery. When someone comes in with a prime warframe (except Excalibur, of course) or with prime weapons (same goes for clan weapons, except the Flux rifle and the Ignis) it says right away "been there done that". Because it cannot be bought anywhere, to have to search for its parts and that can take a loooong time. I like the idea that money cannot buy anything in that game.

 

            Story reasons. I'm perfectly fine with the Prime warframes being the evolution of the non-prime ones. But. Considering all the lops and holes in the lore of the universe, I like to imagine that it is the other way around. Our mondane daily frames are a devolution of the prime ones, and, as the Excalibur description hints, the secret of the Tenno's long lost memories might hide in the Orokin Towers.

 

            More story but that could change. As far as I like the idea of an ultimate hidden void boss thing, I must say: first things first. Before to have an end game, one must have a proper game. For now, except the intro, the only story elements are of context, fighting for the balance the Lotus works for. Even the events were shaped that way. That's no proper story. I don't expect warframe to be a story driven experience, nor do I wish DE to rush anything story-wise because they must first work on gameplay and tiles to create context and structure before crafting storylines inside.

            So I don't see any endgame anytime soon, and wouldn't like to for another one reason: having a Void Orokin boss would be seeing the face of what has not been seen at all. It would spoil all the ymystery surrounding the Orokin, because so far, we have never seen anything but what the Neural Sentry sends to fight us. Having an orokin boss would kill the magic.

 

            But, when the time comes, one could find coordinates in the Void to navigate deeper inside and find something, be it an orokin planetship or anything. Those coordinates could be your tokens.

[WondahBoah]

I totally agree.

 

         

 

            But all in all, I don't like the idea of tokens and what follows, for several reasons.

          

LOL wut.

 

Alright, I thought about it, and I'm gonna retouch it a bit to include both Void and Derelict keys

[Banansa47]

 

 

 

 

my solution for warframe in general........

[WondahBoah]

relevance bump

[Cynical_Goblin]

How does this not have more upvotes?

[WondahBoah]

How does this not have more upvotes?

Poor titling? Changed that up. Tell your friends :D

 

Edit: Please people, feedback on the updated version is welcome

Edited January 1, 2014 by WondahBoah

[WondahBoah]

Updated with vault details

[zephyrdragoon]

I dig pretty much any idea of token systems. This one looks especially good (coming from someone who submitted one a few months ago). I'd link some of my old ideas but my thread has been archived AFAIK.

 

Good luck, you have my support. +1

[Sunfaiz]

Not sure i completely understand but maybe, you could harvest Keys ( there is no T1 keys or T2 keys, just keys) and when used they would in turn open a new map. and the level you want to play is determined by how many keys you use. Something like "star map>keys map>Mission type select># of keys select>Play mission. Could use this idea for T4s and T5s. Also it might fit nicely with the token system

[WondahBoah]

Not sure i completely understand but maybe, you could harvest Keys ( there is no T1 keys or T2 keys, just keys) and when used they would in turn open a new map. and the level you want to play is determined by how many keys you use. Something like "star map>keys map>Mission type select># of keys select>Play mission. Could use this idea for T4s and T5s. Also it might fit nicely with the token system

I have the Void/Derelicts map idea in there, but I'm not sure about requiring multiples of keys like that, because that would increase the key grind, more so than my proposed idea, and just about as much as it is now. A 1-to-1 key-to-mission system is just more efficient because it saves time and stress.