Boss Battles 2.0 - How To Make A Better Conflict

[YoshiPendragon]

Greetings Tenno,

 

Within this topic I will be working with the community in order to outline, restructure and enhance one of the most lacking areas of the game: boss fights. As it stands, our current confrontations fall into the categories of either low mobility bullet-sponge or phases of invulnerability with randomized mobility. The conflict is extremely shallow offering little to inspire teamwork or critical thinking, and usually results in just spamming bullets in their direction until they eventually fall. On average this results in the confrontation lasting under a minute if the team is properly equipped.

 

That being said, it is time to revisit the components of what a real boss entails and use these to create some well-thought out fan concepts on how we can apply them to Warframe.

 

Phase I: The Setting

 

One of the key critical elements of a boss fight is how the map is designed to house this battle. Using recycled level tiles and tossing in a boss at one of the more open spaces does not adequately create the necessary surroundings for an engaging fight. The elements of "high ground", "cover", "choke-point", "hazards", "no man's land" and "pathways" are needed in every layout, but their arrangement and size are relative to the boss itself.

 

"High ground" - A small territory in which either side can gain an advantage by having full visibility of the enemy while being only slightly visible to them

 
"Cover" - Environmental areas in which either side will be periodically forced into a retreat in order to survive

 

"Choke-point" - A cleverly placed very small area in which either side can be baited and easily slaughtered

 

"Hazards" - Most boss fights should contain an environmental hazard that can interfere with the player's ability to assault the boss, distracting them from their target in order to avoid possible death from outside causes (i.e. crumbling buildings, falling objects, lightning strikes, lava, fire, large creatures, etc)

 

"No man's land" - The obvious area in which the player should not enter due to extreme risk of death from enemy fire or boss abilities

 

"Pathways" - Tactical entryways, tunnels or routes the player can take in order to gain a situational advantage over the boss, or vice versa

 

These map components can be contained to a single area, or could be the design of the entire map for longer segmented encounters.

 

Phase II: Purpose

 

While not 100% necessary, having a clear purpose to fighting the boss can directly attribute to the overall enjoyment and replayability of the boss fight. Does the boss have something of yours? Did they kidnap someone? Do they pose an overwhelming threat? Have they attacked you? Have they attacked a friend? Do they have epic loot? Are you a sado-masochist?

 

Regardless of what the reason is, it should be enthralling and motivating. It should be clearly explained before encountering the boss in order to give purpose to needing to take the fight to them. Plot twists are always welcomed during the boss conflict in order to turn the focus to a new boss, further your interest in fighting those who oppose your glory or oppress the innocent.

 

Phase III: The Big Bad Wolf

 

Now that we know where, and now that we know why... it is time to meet the big baddy itself. This area at surface level can look the most complicated, but as with all great creations there is a method to the madness. By following these questions, you can quickly create a new boss that is unique every time.

 

Humanoid or Non-Humanoid?

 

If Non-Humanoid, Creature or Machine?

 

Sentient or Non-Sentient?

 

Weapons or No Weapons?

 

If No Weapons, Supernatural Abilities or Army of Fighters?

 

If Weapons, Ranged or Melee?

 

If Ranged, Melee as well?

 

Armored or Not Armored?

 

Alone or With Ally?

 

If Ally, is it a Pet?

 

If Pet, Stronger or Weaker than Boss?

 

Vehicle or No Vehicle?

 

Can the boss transform?

 

Can the boss fly?

 

With each question, you can get as creative or as simple as you'd prefer. Sometimes the most unorthodox approach can create the most interesting result. Adding a "creep" factor to a boss can make the battle even more interesting as it becomes harder to focus with the stranger the opponent as our mind tries to make sense of their unnatural qualities.

 

Phase IV: Flow

 

Although every major boss battle can feel unique, most of them follow similar trends assembled in slightly different order. The components of a boss fight's flow are: "the chase", "the stand-off", "the holdout", "the rage", "the sabotage", "the triumph" and "the escape".

 

"The chase": A section of the boss fight in which you must chase, on foot or by vehicle, the target through dangerous map elements (enemies or hazards) in order to corner them and prevent their escape or plans of destruction.

 

"The stand-off": With both parties on equal footing, the bulletstorm or slashfest ensues until the player dies or the boss reaches critical levels.

 

"The holdout": A period in which the player must fortify a point and survive against minions or artillery.

 

"The rage": The boss enters into an "ultimate" form often restoring health, increasing attack speed and damage, and potentially destroying the environment to cause harm to the player.

 

"The sabotage": The point in which a player must use wits to expose the boss's vulnerability. (i.e. hacking consoles, destroying shield generators, constructing a trap, breaking its armor, killing its symbiote, etc).

 

"The triumph": Once the boss has been pushed into their critical point, this is the time in which the player goes all-out for a beautiful finisher victory with cutscene.

 

"The escape": This phase can be one of two paths. Once the boss is pushed too hard, they can become unstable and enter into a state of inconsolable rage devoid of winning scenarios requiring the player to retreat to fight another day. Or, once the battle has completed the environment could become unstable/enemy forces going scorched earth requiring the player to escape to avoid annihilation.

 

Phase V: Intelligence

 

Half of the battle lies here: AI. The boss must be smart enough to play like a player, hence the words "Artificial Intelligence". In order to reach this point, we again return to a formula.

 

Dodge - The boss must know when and how to effectively dodge player's abilities.

Protect - When not ready to attack, the boss must have a way to defend itself or return the player's attacks.

Entrap - Smart bosses will often lead players into a trap which can be sprung for damage, crowd control or a distraction.

Leadership - In applicable scenarios, a boss will make use of its minions to do the dirty work when not safe to attack.

Cover - Bosses without great defense must know how to use the environment to block enemy fire.

Ruthlessness - During times of need, a boss will sacrifice a minion to gain their power for an upperhand.

Relentlessness - In the player's moments of weakness, the boss will press the assault to prevent recovery.

Synergy - Multi-boss combinations must complement one another's weaknesses with great strengths.

Awareness - Players in advantageous positions will become the target of the boss, preventing weakness exploits.

Control - When players begin to coordinate, the boss will use crowd control and hazards to scatter them.

 

Phase VI: Reward

 

How shall the player be rewarded for their victory? Should the player be rewarded differently based on efficiency of victory? Will there be grand-scale effects because of the victory? Did the player invite evil to their doorstep by achieving victory? A few factors shall remain static, while the rest dynamic.

 

1. Guaranteed reward. (Weapon or "Warframe" item)

2. Increased difficulty = Increased reward.

3. Recognition of victory by factions both allied and opposing.

 

 

Please feel free to add to this with your ideas, and let's keep this topic civil and intelligent. Post up any boss battle concepts that you may put together using these thoughts. Enjoy, and let's hope this can stir some action at DE.

 

 

________UPDATE_________

 

Boss Battle: The Grineer Scientist

 

The Grineer Scientist

Phase I: The Setting

The battle of The Grineer Scientist will take place in a Grineer lab tileset in which the player(s) will enter from the surface level. In order to enter the compound, players are to take a stealth approach and find pathways without alerting forces. In the event that the forces become aware of the players' presence, alarms will sound locking down the compound from entry. The only way to open the compound doors would be for the players to hunt down unmarked consoles and hack them in the proper order to override the doors. Once opened, a large enemy force will be awaiting the player(s) on the inside.
After the player(s) has ventured deep into the compound, they will find themselves at an elevator shaft with a large open lift and a console. This console must be hacked and will trigger the lift to begin descending as blast doors open at each floor below to allow the lift to work its way down. At each floor the lift will temporarily pause and be met by a group of enemies, meanwhile a task must be completed at each floor to restart the lift's descent. These tasks can range from collecting access codes from fallen enemies to activate a computer, to exploring that specific floor to find a captive Tenno engineer that must be escorted back to hack the computer for you.
At the destination of the lift, the player(s) will arrive at a very large laboratory deep below the surface. The lab is riddled with corrosive tanks directly below brittle walkways, exposed energy reactors emitting a field of powerful radiation and various breakable cages with rabid experiments inside of them. Looking onward to the helm of the lab stands The Grineer Scientist... with a friend.

Phase II: Purpose

The Grineer Scientist has become far too productive in his solitude, creating viscious abominations that are beginning to overrun nearby sectors. By defeating this subject, it will give nearby forces a temporary reduction in the number of these creatures that they will encounter, easing the difficulty of their missions.

Phase III: The Big Bad Wolf

The Grineer Scientist is not so different from your typical Grineer, simply geared quite well with some of the best in reverse-engineered Orokin technology. This boss  has been tampering with the Technocyte virus in order to create bio-enhanced armor, weaponry and even an army of mutated creatures. With a large shield powered by nearby reactors, and an array of crowd-control sentries, this target has little to fear for its lackluster health and armor. The true danger lies within "The Friend". As a dedicated comrade, this Grineer has volunteered for many experimental Technocyte operations resulting in massive deformities and a brutish appearance. "The Friend" has assimilated with its body armor, adapting the alloy plates and ferrite into a dense resilient hide. Arming itself with weaponry from nearby infantry, "The Friend" is not afraid to de-limb fellow Grineer for the purpose of taking their toys. When weaponry fails, it falls back to a primal habit of using brute force in the way of charging headstrong into its foes to lift unprepared Tenno in its massive hands before crushing them repeatedly into the ground. The only way to bring down this titanic beast is to use cold weaponry or nearby cryo-cells to freeze its armor, and then use fire abilities, ammunition or explosions to shatter and expose soft flesh. Do not let it retreat, as The Grineer Scientist will supplement this beast's rage with injections that further its armored mutations and the power of its strikes.

Phase IV: The Flow

1. Enter compound via stealth or force.
2. Proceed down the lift completing objectives at each stop.
3. Begin boss battle.
4. Deal with adds caused by collateral damage to cages, rescue comrades from corrosive pits.
5. Focus on "The Friend" in state of augmented rage, or destroy reactor shields to bring down The Grineer Scientist and prevent any further augmentations.
6. Hunt down the fleeing scientist and stop him from triggering self-destruct sequence.
7. If succeeded in preventing self-destruct, ride lift to escape. If failed, building begins to crumble starting with the lift. Player(s) must escape by fighting way through enemies up stairs and pathways to a waste run-off drain.

Phase V: Intelligence

The Grineer Scientist serves as supplemental support to "The Friend" and uses environment for own protection and to avoid the fight. Can create additional environmental hazards. Uses proximity to sentries for protection until shield generators are destroyed, cutting power to sentries and defense. Uses crowd control to prevent player(s) from overwhelming "The Friend".
"The Friend" uses brute strength and environment as weapons to corner and overpower player(s). Leads battle with strong hand until armor is broken, then stuns player(s) to try and retreat for augmentation. Will often toss players at breakable environment areas to place them in additional harm such as corossive tanks and beast cages.

Phase VI: Reward

Rewards issued based on successful defeat of one or both bosses. If lab self-destructs, mission locked for X amount of time and The Grineer Scientist can potentially launch assault on various sectors to avenge death of "The Friend".

Edited April 29, 2014 by DoctorYoshi

[halofury36]

I would also say that having choices, such as sabotaging a secondary map area in order to weaken the boss (possibly at the cost of some bonus rewards) can add depth to the encounter. Another form of this is beating a boss before a time threshold or event trigger so that they can stop the boss' plan/change the flow of the story.

 

Basically, the lore of the battlefield can be mission-wide, not just in the fight. You touched on this a little bit, but I feel it is important to build on. 

[YoshiPendragon]

I would also say that having choices, such as sabotaging a secondary map area in order to weaken the boss (possibly at the cost of some bonus rewards) can add depth to the encounter. Another form of this is beating a boss before a time threshold or event trigger so that they can stop the boss' plan/change the flow of the story.

 

Basically, the lore of the battlefield can be mission-wide, not just in the fight. You touched on this a little bit, but I feel it is important to build on. 

 

Agreed, which is why I have only outlined some generics to leave each boss fight able to be designed uniquely. In my head I was thinking up a couple simple scenarios such as needing to hack consoles to lock doors to direct a boss to a certain area to fght (chained gauntlet), requiring a teammate or two to split off and go sabotage a reactor to take out the boss's shields, or some neat little boss-rage moments where a Grineer boss will get angry and rip the arms off of two Heavy Gunners to dual wield Gorgon rifles once they have depleted their own ammunition.

Edited April 29, 2014 by DoctorYoshi

[YoshiPendragon]

Updated OP with example Boss 2.0 fight.

[halofury36]

Nice flavorful example. It displays your point well.

 

I would love to see boss fights actually have an effect on regions of the game as well. Give people more lore reasons for both discovering the boss and giving a motivation to fight. The fact that the consequences of the fight can either enhance or limit farming in the game (non-permanently) give incentive to play with more skill or thought. I approve.

[Catharsis25]

I might not agree with necessarily everything, but I like it. This is good stuff. 

[YoshiPendragon]

I might not agree with necessarily everything, but I like it. This is good stuff. 

 

Feedback and critical analysis are always welcome. Ideas grow through discussion, and you may very well raise some points that I may not be able to see from my perspective.

[Fayted]

That example is a huge stretch from the boss fights we currently have, but it would be so much better. Bosses right now feel so...lacking.

[botbot123321]

Boss fights now are just something you farm for warframes... This gives it an interesting spin.

[YoshiPendragon]

Boss fights now are just something you farm for warframes... This gives it an interesting spin.

 

Fayted is going to be working on an exciting narrative following the concepts in the OP to demonstrate a possible boss fight. He'll be posting it up in the general discussion section once it's all done, I'll put a link in here too.

[FoxFX]

DoctorYoshi, if I might ask: is this more of a skeleton you setup for us to make our own bosses for?

 

On the side note, a great excerpt you wrote here. I feel that for general 3rd person games, all bosses should follow this concept:

 

1> Break up the pace from the regular game and feel different, like the feel of an epic duel between 2 entities

2> While being easy to hit, a good boss should be so that you also must dodge their blows.

3> Has a variety of attack that keeps a boss interesting

4> It should have something different from its minions

5> an interesting boss has some unique sort of weakness to it while being very tricky to kill

6> The more the boss is damaged, the harder the boss should be

[YoshiPendragon]

DoctorYoshi, if I might ask: is this more of a skeleton you setup for us to make our own bosses for?

 

On the side note, a great excerpt you wrote here. I feel that for general 3rd person games, all bosses should follow this concept:

 

1> Break up the pace from the regular game and feel different, like the feel of an epic duel between 2 entities

2> While being easy to hit, a good boss should be so that you also must dodge their blows.

3> Has a variety of attack that keeps a boss interesting

4> It should have something different from its minions

5> an interesting boss has some unique sort of weakness to it while being very tricky to kill

6> The more the boss is damaged, the harder the boss should be

 

I did indeed make this as a skeleton model, but also for DE to see and reflect upon their bosses so that they understand why we are not happy with them. Seeing as DE has been pretty good about recognizing and including community created content, I'm hoping that this model will spark some creative genius within the community and get some raw material flowing for the developers to work with.

[FoxFX]

I did indeed make this as a skeleton model, but also for DE to see and reflect upon their bosses so that they understand why we are not happy with them. Seeing as DE has been pretty good about recognizing and including community created content, I'm hoping that this model will spark some creative genius within the community and get some raw material flowing for the developers to work with.

Well I have made a couple of bosses in the Fan Concept, but at least bosses that would feel doable for DE to do. I'll post these ideas in your format soon.

 

I applaud you for making a thread like this for a more structured thought-base for bosses in this game. I rarely get many people to read what I got.

[FoxFX]

Based on one of my previous submissions: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/217901-corpus-boss-corpus-mecha-suit-pillager/

 

Corpus Boss: The Corpus Powersuit, the Taurus

 

Phase I: The Setting

 

The fight takes place in the Corpus Outpost Tile Sets. The boss fight is out in the open where at the end is a big door leading to an Oxium mine shaft as well as 2 small doors where small drones can spawn from. There are several crates all over on a round metal floor where in the middle is the boss with his power suit.

 

Also to note is that there are these new types of explosive barrels around the arena called "Cryo Barrels." these Cryo Barrels are used by the Corpus to seal off the movements of any Tenno they have captured in cryopods. Firing the Cryo Barrels creates an explosion that can freeze any enemy for a couple of seconds while it slows down Tenno movement for a small duration.

 

Phase II: The Purpose

 

Ever since the Corpus discovered Oxium, the Lotus has been paying attention to the Corpus's activities. She later on discovers a major Oxium mining facility.

 

The Lotus will give you the mission to seal the Oxium mining facility to hinder any advancements in Corpus technologies. Alas, one such weapon system has been developed in which the Corpus boldly claim will "put the Betrayers in their place."

 

Phase III: The Big Bad Wolf

 

The Corpus power suit is called the "Taurus" and is a robotic suit ridden by a special Corpus Crewman pilot. Due to the Corpus's Oxium technological advancements, the Taurus is capable of leaping long distances and can sometimes hover around. The Taurus is equipped with a state-of-the-art shield system that is almost impenetrable to any attack.

 

The Taurus is accompanied with a prototype Corpus rail gun: "The Duplus". The Duplus comes with 2 different firing mechanisms. The first one is a radial shot that can cause Radiation status at an uncommon chance. The second firing system is a bigger version of the Flux Rifle firing, but the Taurus usually fires this one by spinning the laser around the arena.

 

Phase IV: The Flow

 

As soon as all members in the party enter the boss arena, a cinematic happens showing a Corpus Crewman tinkering on the Taurus then suddenly noticing the Tenno behind him. Without much hesitation and as if with great confidence, the Crewman slowly enters the Taurus, and with the power suit activated, it picks up the Duplus rail gun next to it.

 

As mentioned before, you cannot hurt the Taurus at first, but you can damage its rail gun. Doing enough damage to the rail gun will cause it to explode and also releasing a very powerful blast that severely damages the Taurus's invincible shield system. To get a better shot at the Duplus, players will either find a player that can get the pilot's attention or players can lure the boss to one of the Cry Barrels and shoot the barrels when the Taurus is near to freeze it in its track.

 

Once in a while, Owium Ospreys will spawn to give the Tenno some distractions.

 

Phase V: Intelligence

 

The pilot of the Taurus is a general "hothead." If one player has fired at the Taurus enough times, it will tend to focus its attention at that player and sometimes uses a reckless charging attack that leaves it rail gun, the Duplus, vulnerable to attacks and the Taurus itself vunerable to more attacks and a Cryo Bomb trap. Once the Duplus' health is zero, the Taurus will angrily throw the broken rail gun at any nearby Tenno which does tremendous damage.

 

Once in a while, the Taurus will jump extremely high into the sky and float there for a while. Once in this mode, it will drop a couple of timed cryogenic mines randomly all over the place. These mines can do damage and can limit the Tenno's evasive maneuvers.

 

When the Taurus is unarmed, it will be a bit faster and will use a lot of charging attacks and will often jump across the map and smash the ground for some radial knockdown damage.

 

The Taurus has its own Finisher attack that can be countered by the Tenno: it lunges to a nearby Tenno and grabs their upper torso. The player will then be prompted to type in a 4-5 directional command quickly before a short timer runs out. Succeeding the prompt will create an animation when the Tenno breaks free and stuns the Taurus for a few seconds. If the player fails the command, an animation occurs where the Taurus jumps up with the grabbed Tenno and rockets down slamming the Tenno on the floor. This attack will leave the Tenno in a downed state regardless.

 

Phase VI: Reward

 

As of now, I have no idea what could be a possible reward for this boss.

 

WIll post my other boss ideas in a later time.

[YoshiPendragon]

Based on one of my previous submissions: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/217901-corpus-boss-corpus-mecha-suit-pillager/

 

...

 

WIll post my other boss ideas in a later time.

 

Sounds like a pretty fun boss fight. It reminds me of the mechs from Mass Effect 3. I'm hoping that DE does in the near future add in some sort of "break-free" mechanic adding in more need for teamwork to help save anyone that gets caught up in an attack. DE seems to be afraid to add in guaranteed death scenarios in the sake of not auto-failing the mission, but frankly this is the only game I can think of that is afraid to say "you failed, gg, best of luck next time." It's not like you lose anything failing a mission, just need to try again.

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

The only boss that can really clasify as a "Great and fun boss fight" is the Hyena pack. They REALLY put your skills to the test, they are as fast as you, as agile as you (or even better) and they tent to comibine their skills for some really scary combos (Ice Hyena slowing you so the Ballistic rains down hell on you).

 

I hope they keep this Quality on their next reworks.

 

Other honrable mentions can be Vor, Hek and Sargas Ruk,

Edited April 30, 2014 by The_Sharp_Demonologist

[YoshiPendragon]

The only boss that can really clasify as a "Great and fun boss fight" is the Hyena pack. They REALLY put your skills to the test, they are as fast as you, as agile as you (or even better) and they tent to comibine their skills for some really scary combos (Ice Hyena slowing you so the Ballistic rains down hell on you).

 

I hope they keep this Quality on their next reworks.

 

Other honrable mentions can be Vor, Hek and Sargas Ruk,

 

Those are far from great and fun, the majority of those boss fights are based around annoyances rather than challenges.

 

Hyena pack spams you with stumble and control abilities so that the only option you have is to get some distance and hope to get a good shot in on one. It leaves little room for approaching the fight from a tactical angle, you just have to get lucky or overwhelm them with sheer force and damage mitigation from Iron Skin or Blessing.

 

Captain Vor spams two moves as his only means of combat. He's either going to use his little tesla ball to spam damage at you, or he's going to use his invulnerability bubble to slow the fight down. All you have to do is keep your distance and keep shooting him in the head until he's done. No challenge.

 

Vay Hek is probably the stupidest boss fight I've seen yet, but they are moving in a more engaging direction. I have no idea what sense it makes to have him open his helmet if he KNOWS that is his only area of vulnerability. We literally don't have to do anything to make him expose his weakness, he just does it on a timer. Once he takes a certain chunk of damage, he flies off for no reason as if doing the same tactics in the next section will end up with different results. His final form is what bothers me the most. Where did this come from, and why is he even weaker now than he was before? Shouldn't this suit be super damage resistant and extra painful? The second he enters this thing we just watch his health melt away from using even the most modest weapons.

 

Sargas Ruk is by far the best boss fight out of what you listed, but once again why periodically expose your own weakness?

 

Alad V, to this day, is still their best thought out boss design. The use of a symbiotic relationship of Alad V for Zanuka's shields, and Zanuka's crowd control and firepower to make up for Alad V's fragility creates a great fight. The only thing that I could do without in this fight is that damn flashbang move, but it has its purpose.

[Evariskitsune]

 

Alad V, to this day, is still their best thought out boss design. The use of a symbiotic relationship of Alad V for Zanuka's shields, and Zanuka's crowd control and firepower to make up for Alad V's fragility creates a great fight. The only thing that I could do without in this fight is that damn flashbang move, but it has its purpose.

 

See I mostly agree on this; but on one point. 

 

I like the flashbang.  

 

Yes, it's annoying.  But that's the brilliance behind it.  

 

You never know when it's going to happen, and it adds a real danger to this boss fight.  If you can't see, you can't shoot, and Zanuka has enough firepower to at least kick down your shields when the flash goes off.  Not including any Corpus mobs that might happen to have come in the door behind you.

 

In my opinion; boss fights need a element to them that makes it so no matter how well prepared you come gear-wise, you should have a chance of losing if your strategy, tactics, and luck fall short.  

 

But that's me.  

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

Sargas ruck at least has a reason to expose his weakspod and its because after a sertain amount of attacks i guess he needs to vent the suit or he would explode.

For Hek i havent fought him bu i though the Tethra suit was a cool fight, didnt knew he was so weak.

 

As for Alad I hate it. Zanuka himself is a pretty fun match but Alad is @(*()$ stupid, all he does is run away. If you cant defend yourself or dont want to fight cause your a puni chicken WHAT ARE YOU DOING IN OUT IN THE OPEN. And dont get me started whit his @(*()$ unaboidable flash cause if i have to fight him once more i think my eyes will burst out.

 

Alad V is like the cáncer that is stopping the fight to be enjoyable.

Edited April 30, 2014 by The_Sharp_Demonologist

[botbot123321]

Some theory's on why hek opens up his helmet.

1.he needs to come out and get air

2. The mask overheats

3the mask has shields and when they go down they must regenerate or he will explode.

4. The person who made the suit was stupid

5 the DE needed a way to kill him

[FoxFX]

I'd like to keep alive this thread by adding in one of my latest concepts:  https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/229165-sub-faction-concept-kela-de-thaym-and-the-pure/

 

While it'll take some time for me to remodel the text of this boss to your format, please feel free to review what I've jotted down.