Thoughts On Controls, Movement, Customization, Melee, Ninjaing, Etc.

[zelgaris]

Hello there fellow tennos,

I was thinking about this topic since I started playing Warframe back in the closed beta when I thought "It's just a futuristic Vindictus cross Gunz" and I am thinking about the movement and controls more since I started searching for exploits, gaps and other errors in maps, which are usually accessible through some basic or advanced ninjaing, i.e. wall jumping, wall running, slide-somersault-jumping, etc. Those bring me to some really interesting places (see Secret/Interesting Locations, More secret rooms in missions and my so far favorite Map Errors, Invisible Walls, etc.) some of them actually occupied with lootable lockers, some of them empty and some of them sending me to a long fall out of the map :)

Considering the above mentioned games I've played and considerably enjoyed in past, Vindictus feel similar in the movement and controls (although having different, Fantasy, setting), yet its melee system and the feel of every slash is superb to Warframe limited approach to melee, while Gunz feels like movement, jumps and attacks have no weight (easy to control, but it feels weird). For you, who played those two games like me, Waframe indeed plays like a cross between them - and I have to say a really good one.

So far for introduction, let's tackle the topic. We already have some controls customization options and even some semi-advanced options like setting crouch to ON/OFF rather than "hold" (which is great considering what crouch button does (slides, kicks) and the fact that most of normal keyboards don't have n-key rollover and we are limited to 3-4 simultaneous key combinations).

With newest hotfix patch we also got an option to being able to wallrun without the need to hold jump key (i.e. "Hold Jump to Wallrun" option added, more on that later, because it's not as good as it sounds like), so it's pretty evident that DE listens to us, player base, and also supports customization.

And we can also finally set the gamepad controls, which is also great.

But these are just small steps:) Naturally there are some things that could be further improved.

Notice, that the basic common themes of almost everything below are customization, variability, accessibility and user friendliness. Important themes if you ask me :)

[size=5]More Controls Customization[/size]

I know, that lot of controls customization can be done through third party macro software and lot of users is already using these to make for example the sliding jumps more easy to execute. Some of them are using macro tools to make the crazy clicking with non-automatic weapons automatic - a common feature, that should be implemented directly in the game without any penalty (somebody suggested to make it a mod, while other buying a expensive gaming mouse...).

So some basic suggestions, with the advanced following:

1) Toggle run (used in many games, for example pretty recent shooter/melee Warhammer 40K: Space Marine, where it works really well and there's no reason for it not working here)

2) Toggle aim mode - already mentioned several times on the forum by players, who would really like to use RMB/MB2 for melee attack rather than precise aiming. It's understandable and there is really no reason to not include this option.

[size=5]Advanced Customization and Adjusting the Movement[/size]

Don't you hate, when you try to sprint, then decide not to after already pushing shift, and your tenno just dodge-rolls from the platform you are standing on? Pretty annoying, right? I am not saying it is impossible to get used to this, everybody does in a sense by playing the game over and over again. But allowing us to change these advanced things would make some of our lives in this game a bit less painful :)

1) Allow us to change how the dodge/roll works, i.e. not use SPRINT key for it, but different key (or double tap of direction key, since you're pretty familiar with this from Unreal series). I hope I am not the only one, who would really appreciate this.

2) Toggle Auto-fire (already mentioned above) - there are actually people, who thing this shouldn't be in the game and it's a "skill" to mash the fire button as fast as possible. They also use "because of balance" argument. But we all know, this argument is not the case, the balance is handled by the fire rate of the given weapon (and current problems with these weapons are not in the rate of fire, but OP damage mods).

3) Allow us to walk - controller users already have this option, keyboard users don't, because we lack the analog input for movement. ON/OFF toggle key would solve this, and while ON, starting sprinting initiate automatic OFF, i.e. after a sprint, normal movement will be restored (this could be option able)..

4) Allow us to sit - I already suggested this in different thread https://forums.warfr...mation-command/ , since the sitting animation is already there. Would be really great to be able to do this while waiting for other players at some point. Adding a possible slow energy replenishing when sitting would be nice, but not necessary.

5) Allow us to holster weapons - pretty self-descriptive, basically only for visual purposes. Holstering command will holster the ranged weapons (i.e. rifle/sidearm) until unholstered by the same command or by other action like shooting. Melee attacks will not unholster the ranged weapons

But could also provide some simple boost to ninjaing, e.g. reduce stamina consumption when running, jumping and wallrunning when weapons are holstered (representing tenno has free hands, so the movement is easier for him).

6) Allow us to switch ranged weapons while performing melee attacks - already started a related thread today, which is describing the current problem with this - https://forums.warfr...ng-after-melee/

Basically, when executing a melee attack, the ranged weapon is instantly holstered, melee weapon attack(s) is performed, and after that the same ranged weapon is drawn.

Problem occurs in case we want to switch the ranged weapons after the melee attack. What happens is this

As you can see, I have Paris drawn before the melee attack. Right after the melee attack animation ends, I immediately push the weapon switch key (you can notice the changing of weapon in bottom right corner). One would expect the drawing of the switched weapon, but instead, the Paris bow is drawn, and then switched to the other ranged weapon by the command, which was already input few seconds ago.

It would made much more sense allowing us to switch between the ranged weapons freely during the melee attacks. It makes sense, since the ranged weapons are holstered before the melee attack, so there is no need to return to the previous weapon and than changing it, to the other.

7) Allow us to start sprinting right after landing/rolling/sliding/etc. while holding a sprint key. Now it works only in two cases:

- After a roll, which is resulting from a sprint-jump

- After a roll, which is resulting from a slide-somersault-jump

While trying everything else, connection to sprinting doesn't work, and these cases include:

- After a running jump, which results in normal running

- After a stationary jump, which results in normal running

- After a roll from stationary position or normal running

- After a roll from a non-sprint-fall

- After landing from wall-running (no matter the wallrunning boost)

- and more

In the above mentioned situations I assume tenno starting sprinting is an expected behavior, but that's not the case. It is possible to create an illusion of connection between these actions and following sprinting with proper timing, but it's still an illusion and it's hard to achieve. And when you miss the timing, you have to release the sprint key and push it again, or you can hold it how long you want, but it will have no effect.

One could argue that this timing is a player skill. Well, I can agree with the need of a skill to do it properly, but considering the fast pace of the game, more suitable is just allowing us to hold the sprint key and let the sprint connect/start every time it's possible.

8) Also start running right after we hit the running key, not after the delay, which is there for some reason.

9) Allow us to jump immediately when it is possible by holding a jump key before getting to the position on a horizontal surface allowing us to jump (i.e. after a roll resulting from previous jump, or right after the normal roll). Basically the same as with sprinting above, but for jumping.

10) "Hold to wall run" doesn't work properly, actually. Currently (i.e. holding) it works fine and switching it off does its job in simple situations, where it's clear wallrunning/climbing is possible. The problem occurs in situations, where the possibility of the wallrunning/climbing is not as clear and you try to do it somewhere on the wall you jumped to you are not sure, whether it's possible.

With this option turned on (i.e. holding JUMP key, releasing to stop) everything is okay, since the wallrunning starts automatically when the surface allowing a wall-running is found and the contact is made.

However, without the option turned off (i.e. tap JUMP to initiate wallrunning and tap JUMP again to end it) the initial tapping has to be precise/perfect, or it doesn't work - or to be more precise, when you are holding the jump key since the jump, tenno doesn't start wallrunning at all. Thus, as mentioned above, it's actually less suitable for free form movement and experimenting with possible routes.

I thought this would be great feature, but currently it's for real masochists :)

Solution is to leave the start of the wallrunning working on hold, but after the wallrunning starts, allow us to release the JUMP key without ending the wallrunning and make the next hit of the JUMP key behave as "jump off" command for wallrunning. Basically, leave the start of the wallrunning same in both options, but change the way the wallrunning is interrupted:

- in one case by releasing the jump key

- in other by taping the jump key again

Also this option resets on start up (quitting) of the game.

11) If possible, change the ground slam (i.e. jump melee attack) animation so it doesn't looks so awkward and perform it relative to the tenno, not the cursor aim (this lead to funny/stupid 180 rotation when the ground is hit). Just see for yourself:

First ground slam, I don't change the camera after executing it. On the second, I do, and look at that... ain't it stupid? :) The third one with super jump is there for the effect.

But have you noticed, that the ground slam is performed in the following order:

- jump > landing > stopping the force of the landing and then hitting the ground with the weapon

What I am trying to say is, shouldn't it be:

- jump > landing+using the force of fall to hit the ground?

It's hard to explain, but the bigger the height of the fall/jump the more stupid it looks. It really looks like the tenno stops after landing and then hit the ground. Even Rhino in the Open Beta trailer is doing it better :)

Also, as mentioned, leave the jumping/falling direction for the grand slam rather than rotating it in the last second to match the camera.

Also, when doing the ground slam after sprinting (and while holding sprint key) this happens:

On one hand, I like he continues running, on the other hand, the sliding over the ground with the axe looks really bad. And in this case particularly, being unable to continue running after the attack actually makes sense, considering the force of the attack.

12) Allow us to interrupt attack animations by block command or roll command. Would be especially useful with heavy weapons. Also heavy weapons, especially Scindo, attacking after sprinting looks like this...

and it looks pretty weird... is this behavior intentional, or someone forgot to reset the velocity of the character after the first hit? Looking at that, I don't feel any weight from the attack.

13) Camera quake and other effects preventing from seeing, what is actually happening on the screen - I assume these effect are intentional to show us, the smashes move the ground. Well, try aiming when something like this happens nearby. I know, it's "so real", but I prefer my camera calm... unless it's really necessary.

This is what I am talking about - it's already sometimes see, what happening, and when using heave melee weapons, it's this BS...no vertical movement with mouse, just pure camera effects...

[size=5]Movement Animations[/size]

Allowing us to interrupt attack animations by blocking or by rolling/dodging could be one way to make the movement and combat especially more flexible and responsive. The other way is to modify the animations a bit.

One thread with this topic appeared today - https://forums.warfr...ral-animations/ - and I have to agree with almost everything stated in the OP, so I hope he don't mind repeating them, or the one I agree with.

Some animations are just dangerously long and while they can look good, how they look is the last thing, when you need to run away from danger.

1) Knockback/knockdown recovery is too slow and the tenno spend his time drawing his actual weapon back. Also talking about knockback/knockdown, there could be some kind of protection against it, but that's a different topic. Also allow us different kind of recovery than standing one:

- for example from knockdown to roll (so we can roll away from danger fast and then stand up) instead of standing up (can be done by a roll command and direction, or by a direction only) - would drain bit of stamina

- the fast jump/standing up performed by Loki in the Warframe Open Beta trailer at 1:17 (okay, even in the trailer he takes his time) - I understand it's just a trailer, but you do understand, you are showing us badass stuff we want to do ingame, but we can't, because it's only a trailer. Instead ingame, we have common/normal boring animation...

2) Ground finishers are so long and especially with heave weapons, it feels like they trigger on random basis... especially when fighting lot of employees at once. You want to mash them, but your tenno decided to ground finish the already dead enemy... if you really need these in your game, how about giving them a special key combination to execute rather then doing it "when the game feels right and when the player doesn't expect it"? :) How about CROUCH+Melee, or charging attack and then tapping melee

3) Hacking - rather not talk about this... also, quitting the hacking sequence in danger by ESC is not the best ideas, since we can hit the escape twice, and that will open the menu and that is not something we want to do in the dangerous situation. I suggest using melee attack button or X to interrupt the hacking in order to run away. Well at least we can interrupt it :)

4) Sprinting - starting delay, feels unresponsive, already mentioned before

5) Falling - well, we don't take fall damage, but I actually don't mind some kind of landing animation (also I would not mind some kind of falling damage, i.e. draining our shields with the blue ground slam effect :)), but the current one is just meh. For that reason, I prepared this...

you have a great and elegant looking landing animation, but you give us that meh looking one instead (same deal with the standing up animation after being knocked down).

And if you want money, allow us to buy and activate the one from the cinematic. Would rather pay for that than in-game benefits :)

Just a simple footnote... AKA [size=5]More Complex Melee Combat[/size]

Right now, melee combat is pretty basic, while important part of the game. In addition to simple button-mash combos, we have a charged attack, jump attack, ground attack (stupidly slow and unable to cancel with heavy weapons - see above) and since update 7 also a stealth attack (in easier mission = instant kill). And there are some advanced moves like sliding melee attack or jumping kick, but in the end, it still isn't that much.

So, the question is, if we want to make the melee combat more interesting, how to do it without ending like a Street Fighter 3rd person clone :)

Simplest way to make the melee combat more interesting is by adding more combos and adding one more melee button (e.g. Vindictus-like :)).

By new combos, I don't mean hit attack button 5 times instead of four, but for example:

- Using direction keys during normal combos in combination with attack

- Using other moves (e.g. rolls, jumps) during combos

- Using pause during attack execution for different attack

- Or above mentioned second melee button

Adding a Second Melee Button

Since we already have a charged attack (i.e. heavy attack), this one could represent something else, for example unarmed attack of some kind and the particular type of attack would depend on the place in the executed combo.

For example:

- when hit alone (i.e. not after a melee attack), it can work as a basic melee "push the enemy a bit away" attack with the current ranged weapon in hand (or simple elbow slam). Then it can be followed by a classic melee attack to create and start a normal combo. (would drain stamina a bit)

- but when executed after a single weapon melee attack, it would change the combo - these secondary attacks could be also used as combo finishers in some cases

Example combo:

- primary melee, primary melee, secondary melee = slash, slash, palm strike to throw the enemy few meters (maybe sounds too powerful, but that depends on balancing)

Basically, one more button means a lot more variability for the melee combat. But how the engine can handle this and whether developers want something like this I can't say (also, more animations needed for this) :/

---

I hope everything written above was coherent and understandable. Feel free to comment and share your ideas.

Next time, mods, slots, possible endgame, and GUI :)

Edited April 8, 2013 by zelgaris

[Sophax]

Valid points!

[SoloCreep]

#1 - Ive been waiting, hoping that a Toggle run will be added. My thumb cant take much more.. "I use my side mouse button "mouse4 for sprint". #2 - You can use mouse2 for melee or any other button for melee, just rebind the key in the controls options. As for everything else, I like it the way it is. Stop being so damn nitpicky people.

[Meenmu]

Good points.

Also, somewhat relevant to this topic, I've noticed the landing roll happens a bit too often. For example, sprinting down a short staircase sometimes leads to your feet briefly leaving the ground, and you end up roll-landing at the bottom. Or even going upwards, I often find that jumping leads to roll-landings, even when not appropriate, for example, at the top of stairs or jumping to a higher platform, or any platform of a similar height. The only reasons I find this to be a problem are that, firstly, it just looks awkward, and also it interrupts fluid movement. Especially when moving very quickly, the roll animation really slows things down.

[Cauldrath]

I agree with pretty much everything you said, but I don't think a second melee button is really needed. One of the problems with melee combat right now is that a lot of moves are only available when sprinting or wallrunning and there isn't much ability to flow between moves. Making the recovery of basic ground and charge attacks jump and roll cancelable would make jump attacks flow better without letting you do cancel loops. (Like saber dash canceling in MMX4-6 or jump cancel combos in DMC.) There should also be a specific animation for rolling backwards during a melee attack that does a quick step back (or backflip, or whatever looks coolest), then if you are holding sprint, you immediately come out of the recovery sprinting so you can do this step back move into a slide slash, jump kick, or whatever. I'd also like to see the jump attack replaced with the wallrun attack while sprinting and continuing to hold the sprint and jump buttons, just so that move can be used more often. You could use it for hitting cameras, flying enemies, and reactor cores when your normal jump attack wouldn't hit that high.

[zelgaris]

Valid points!

Valid indeed ;)

---

#1 - Ive been waiting, hoping that a Toggle run will be added. My thumb cant take much more.. "I use my side mouse button "mouse4 for sprint". #2 - You can use mouse2 for melee or any other button for melee, just rebind the key in the controls options. As for everything else, I like it the way it is. Stop being so damn nitpicky people.

ad 2) Oh come on, after reading what I wrote there, do you really think I don't know how to set melee to RMB? And that's not even the issue here, it is making the Aim mode toggle not hold, as it is now, i.e. exactly what you want with sprint, and what already works with crouch.

---

Good points.

Also, somewhat relevant to this topic, I've noticed the landing roll happens a bit too often. For example, sprinting down a short staircase sometimes leads to your feet briefly leaving the ground, and you end up roll-landing at the bottom. Or even going upwards, I often find that jumping leads to roll-landings, even when not appropriate, for example, at the top of stairs or jumping to a higher platform, or any platform of a similar height. The only reasons I find this to be a problem are that, firstly, it just looks awkward, and also it interrupts fluid movement. Especially when moving very quickly, the roll animation really slows things down.

Yeah the landing roll is annoying sometimes, but I personally don't mind it after jumping to higher platform, though it's tricky to prevent it - should be possible to make the execution cleaner to prevent "wtf, I haven't executed this command" behavior. Nobody wants a character, who is not listening to our control :)

Anyway, what I find even more annoying and happening on daily basis is when I try to perform a sprint jump, but the tenno rolls instead, not jumping at all. This mostly happens on non-flat terrains. I thought it's related to the issue you are describing when sprinting down a staircase, but when I don't jump, the sprinting animation seems uninterrupted, so there has to be a different reason for this unwanted behavior. .

Should add this to OP...

---

I agree with pretty much everything you said, but I don't think a second melee button is really needed. One of the problems with melee combat right now is that a lot of moves are only available when sprinting or wallrunning and there isn't much ability to flow between moves. Making the recovery of basic ground and charge attacks jump and roll cancelable would make jump attacks flow better without letting you do cancel loops. (Like saber dash canceling in MMX4-6 or jump cancel combos in DMC.) There should also be a specific animation for rolling backwards during a melee attack that does a quick step back (or backflip, or whatever looks coolest), then if you are holding sprint, you immediately come out of the recovery sprinting so you can do this step back move into a slide slash, jump kick, or whatever. I'd also like to see the jump attack replaced with the wallrun attack while sprinting and continuing to hold the sprint and jump buttons, just so that move can be used more often. You could use it for hitting cameras, flying enemies, and reactor cores when your normal jump attack wouldn't hit that high.

I still think that the combat would be more interesting and also complex with another attack button, but I don't mind not having one in case it can be done without it (and I'm sure it can, in a way). Good point with the recovery canceling, that's one think I wanted to add to point 12) but somehow forgot about it :/

I don't think there is actually a need for special backward flip/roll from melee - normal roll in combination with direction key would do the job pretty well.

The issue with holding sprint after the stationary or normal running is, I think, pretty well described in point 7). It can be actually done with perfect timing, but missing it results in normal running, while you are holding shift, instead of sprinting (i.e. the shift key gets ignored).

[haseo669]

Yes, excellent point good sir. These details might seem tiny but they help players feel more comfortable and less frustrated on the little things and focus on the game itself.

[zelgaris]

Yes, excellent point good sir. These details might seem tiny but they help players feel more comfortable and less frustrated on the little things and focus on the game itself.

And then, there is the warframe GUI - bane of all GUIs :D

[Pave]

Without going too much into details (or reading is someone has already mentioned things I'm going to mention of), most if not all of these are possible to implement and tweak into the future versions of the game. It's just up to the developer themselves. we already have a extra good and functioning base, it's just the matter of tweaking them to be more intuitive and flexible, while also still keeping the tight controls.

Of course, some of the suggestions were something that might require a separate gamepad/controller (ala. like in Monster Hunter with special attacks and such). But with enough thought and efford given, I'm certain these can be made work flunetly on both control types (infact, I believe Monster Hunter Frontier has pulled this off). Heck, if this would allow "fusion-controlling", then it simply would work without problem (E.G do all the meleeing, acrobatics and such more actiony with controller. And more precise shooting with Keyboard&mouse-combo on the fly (I think was possible to do on EVE Online: Dust 514 too).

In short, taking some notes form the combat system of Monster Hunter-series is adviceable, if they're going to make the melee-combat more varied in future (take notes espeially from Portable/Freedom 3, because I personally don't like Tri Or Ultimate 3 (Felyne Comrades over Shakas all the way, Nyah! (and Tri/3 doesn't have Tigrex either, because Nintendo-kids can't handle that much of awesome, brute power (no, I don't like 4 so far, it's going even more overboard than the swimming/scuba-diving from Tri-games...and seriously, you don't simply use the carving knife as a weapon, ever! That's just, no!...although I like the idea of grappling/clinging on monsters, but still too many "uuuuurgh"-things (dragon "zombie"-virus...yeah, as if Alatreon already wasn't just dumn enough...Seriously, first an almost omnipotent dragon, and now we get a "zombie" dragon generating more zombie-dragons...Tigrex and Khezu do not approove this...(yes, I am indeed bitter, this would suit better a game something like Dragon's Dogma or something else than Monster Hunter...)))))).

Of course, I want to see the full vision of the developers too. So I'm not going to disapointed if any of these suggestions here are ever going to be implemented. But, it might make the game even more enjoyable, however, since pushing limits of the develoeprs themselves could turn out to be an extremely interesting exprience both for players gameplay-wise, and developement-wise for developers to simply see if they're able to pull various things off.

Edited April 9, 2013 by Pave

[Iraetus]

Yay! Great suggestion without having to revamp the way the game works. :D. Good Job :)).

More Ninja Space Knight Cowboys!

[zelgaris]

Just wanted to tell you, that the second "Thoughts on..." thread was posted few days ago - https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/26891-thoughts-on-mods-capacity-polarity-slots-motivation-challenges-gamestyles-and-endgame - wall of text warning.

[Guest]

these are some pretty rad ideas bro

[BlueSpark]

Very well devised compilation of suggestions. Control responsiveness is somewhat lacking in certain areas - let's hope DE can draw some inspiration from this thread and help us feel like we're really in complete control of our warframes.

Edited April 14, 2013 by BlueSpark

[ValhaHazred]

These are all good. I'd like to add to 11 that I think air slashing should be possible and the ground pound would be a charge attack.

[kalos]

добавили бы в игру броски предметов и врагов. И PvP бои 

[Pave]

добавили бы в игру броски предметов и врагов. И PvP бои 

Translation (via Google translate): Would add to the game throwing objects and enemies. And PvP battles

-----------------------

I pesronally won't comment on this.

[Subzero42]

hmm i like the points this post is going for and the kind of dmc combat for the melee. that would be cool to add more animations to this as well as some are really fluid and change/improve some that are strangely awkward or less appealing. 

[zelgaris]

I hate the new 5 image per post limit here, so instead of editting the op, I'll do it this way. On the other hand, it forces me to keep the thread alive :)

 

Follow-up to the opening post
14) Jump Kick inspired by the beta trailer
I assume you've already seen the

. It's nice and it's one of these trailers showing us cool stuff and animations (which we can't, sadly, actually execute in the game) to alude the crowd and mislead a bit in the process. Not that we can do anything about it than dealing with it these days...

Anyway, there is a particular section, which inspired this idea (and I am not talking about the stupid sequence, where Loki is knocked down and the attacker just leaves him to stand up slowly). I am talking about the part, where Loki performs a jump kick against the boss.



See the difference between this jump kick and the ones you do in the game?
In the in-game version, after executing a jump kick, the tenno continues through the enemy, while in the trailer, Loki bounce back from the enemy.

If you ask me, I would like to have both of these versions in game.

 

Considering the Implementation, current jump kick is performed by holding crouch in the air. The alternative (i.e. trailer) version would be triggered by holding the jump key in addition to the crouch during the jump kick and it would result in the enemy being staggered or knocked to the ground, while the tenno flips back (and can connect to roll, for example).

What do you think?

[Quetzhal]

Well, actually, one of the reasons I loved the beta trailer was because it wasn't misleading. Everything that was shown in the trailer were things you could actually do in the game. Fancied up a bit to make everything flow more fluidly, yes - but everything was there. I assumed the wallrunning was just an aesthetic choice and couldn't be done in the game. I was very wrong and very happy because of it.

That said, being able to chain a backflip to a jumpkick would be pretty neat, yeah.

[dinosau4]

Support!

[SomethingCrazy]

YES YES AND YES!!!

 

Agree with the OP on everything.

 

Edit: More of a Stealth suggestion but I think it would be pretty cool as well if the perform an air assassination like Assassins Creed or Farcry.

Edited April 16, 2013 by SomethingCrazy

[zelgaris]

Follow-up to the opening post
15) Melee Attack Buffer

Since I already mentioned/suggested allowing us to cancel attack by block or roll (see no. 12 "Allow us to interrupt attack animations by block command or roll command" in the opening post) I actually don't mind the current attack buffering that much, however, it's still a valid point.

So go check A Small Change to Melee Buffering thread and support the fellow tenno "gell" in good cause.

 

Basically, it's about the fact, that right now, it is especially noticeable with slow heavy weapons, when you tap melee attack two times in a row in fast succession, the attacks are buffered and you committed to them long before they are actually executed.

He is suggesting changing this in a way there is a few frames long window at the start of the attack animation, where tapping the melee attack button doesn't add any attack to the melee buffer, i.e. tapping the melee attack twice really fast will perform only one attack, not two.

 

Just read it yourself :)

[RabidEwok]

Fantastic post OP - you've echoed so many things I've been meaning to post since I started playing, that it was getting tough to finish reading everything because I wanted to post YES! so badly. 

 

If I had to pick just one thing out of everything you posted that really hits me EVERY single time I play the game (and I love Warframe to death), it would be the Sprinting problem.  Beyond the fact that you have to hold the button down 90% of the time - it's the failure of it to work when you want to, like coming out of a roll, or landing, etc.   I find myself letting up and re-pressing the key so many times that I'm unfortunately used to doing it (as I'm sure we all are), and that's really frustratingly sad.   And for the love of God, give us a sprint toggle option.  My pinky wants a divorce. 

 

You really did nail so many things down - won't bother quoting everything, just wanted to post that I agreed completely - the game could feel so much better than it already does. 

[Xevious]

Very in-depth and all definitely valid points. +1

[zelgaris]

YES YES AND YES!!!

 

Agree with the OP on everything.

 

Edit: More of a Stealth suggestion but I think it would be pretty cool as well if the perform an air assassination like Assassins Creed or Farcry.

 

That would be nice, but I would prefer fast clean kill - what the tennos are doing right now is some fancy inefficient animation. After playing the game for a while, you notice the animations are actually in the way of the gameplay :(