Otaiken
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Posts posted by Otaiken
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44 minutes ago, Apav said:
Even if they do a complete overhaul to stances and combos, combos by their nature are inherently restrictive so the lack of freedom of mobility will not change. You can't choose which way you want to move once you're locked into an animation.
Likewise, there is no reason to remove combo-less attacks from the old quick melee system either. Even if combos become so much better, combos and combo-less attacks can both peacefully exist, and having more variety so you can use the right attack for the right situation is only a good thing.
I also don't agree with this whole phases mentality when it comes to total overhauls of a gameplay system. There's no reason to nerf and break things by releasing part of the changes, while making us wait months for the rest. They only released phase 1 now because of the rule of cool. Besides, we don't even know what the rest of those changes are fully. And even if we did, we really don't know if they will actually fix things like they say they will. The very least they could do is add a stopgap as we wait for the rest of the changes. Having a separate keybind for combo-less attacks on a button that we didn't use before (a button that's customizable mind you) is not a negative for anyone. It doesn't require a massive amount of work to implement either, nor does it create any complications like these changes have.
Everything you've written is baseless conjecture.
"combos by their nature are inherently restrictive so the lack of freedom of mobility will not change" Is that in the bible? "You can't choose which way you want to move once you're locked into an animation. " Excal used to be unable to strafe when swinging during exalted blade. That sure didn't change...
"It doesn't require a massive amount of work to implement either" I think it's actually impossible to do. I'm just as ignorant as you however so it might be either way really.
I'm not exactly optimistic but you really went all out on the cynicism there. You must really love the polearm blender.
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You realize you're not saying anything new, right?
We all know that quick melee was more efficient on some weapon types. We all know about mobility and timing problems. DE knows about them too.
But this is just a phase 1 of melee 3.0, combo rework is not out yet. And I don't think that stitching the old quick melee onto the new system so people can stay in their comfort zone is a great solution.
In the meantime why not try some different melee weapons? System change might be a good time to branch out a little, don't you think?
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1 minute ago, DeMonkey said:
That actually sounds pretty interesting tbh.
At the end of the day though, it's their opinion. They've said it themself, they've seen so much Sci-Fi that it all looks generic now. You aren't going to change their perception, so I'm not entirely sure what your goal is.
I'm not sure what my goal is at this point to be honest. But I did amuse myself by "designing" this weird space station.
I kinda want to see it now.
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37 minutes ago, rune_me said:
It also looks like a grineer tileset, since the grineers crates, the grineer tiled floors, the grineer pipes on the walls and ceiling, are just as generic and plain as the Corpus tilesets. While I would agree that the Orokin tilesets are more original and more ambitious than the rest, it's still not something that stands out.
The 3rd link by the way, is just a collection of generic sci-fi crates and boxes. The same generic crates and boxes you can find scattered throughout all of the tilesets in Warframe. And in every other sci-fi game you play.
"The pipes are generic."
Ok... I honestly can't present an argument that would make that statement look dumber than it already is.
I suppose the only way to make a space station look non-generic is to have it be made of bricks. Maybe give it a white picket fence as well. All of the boxes in the space station need to be round and prevented from rolling around via magnetic field. And the pipes are gonna be... the pipes... there will be no pipes. Fluids will be teleported around or something. And no doors will have any lights on them, the locked ones are gonna be indicated by having a tie around the hande.
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7 minutes ago, rune_me said:
The same generic sci-fi design we've seen a million times before:
https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/scifi-asset-pack
https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/modular-sci-fi-environment-engineer
https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/sci-fi-case-pack
I certainly was too lazy to go through the whole store, so this is just from the first 2 pages. Point is, if you took the assets from Warframe and sold them as a package on the epic store, there would be nothing that separated that packaged from the dozens and dozens of others at all. Nothing that would make you say "whoa, that's something different." At all.
Like I said earlier, this is not a problem with Warframe, but with sci-fi in general. As a genre it's grown stale and too reliant on tired tropes: paneled floors, pipes on the walls, LED lit sliding doors, the same crates and barrels in every game and movie. Of course you very occasionally gets something actually original that stands out and genuinely looks new and different. But for every Bioshock there's a dozen Warframes and Anthems that's just more of the same old, same old.
And again, the Warframes themselves don't fall into that category There's certainly quite a few of the frames that are genuinely well designed in my opinion and that did make me say "yeah I've never seen that before".
As I said, kinda sorta looks like a Corpus crate if you squint a little. That's all you have? That's your 75% of the stuff in Warframe is generic? (Btw the third link is completely off the mark, that one is in any way similar to WF just in you head.)
Also, where's Grineer, Sentient and Orokin stuff? We get it, Corpus are THE clean sci-fi aesthetic faction, where's the rest?
Actually, just show me a sci-fi character with that typical box head on the store. It's easy to write hyperboles but hard doing the legwork, am I right?
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1 hour ago, rune_me said:
Like I already said, I disagree strongly. I rather think that except for a few weapons and most (but not all) of the frames, nothing at all stands out. Most of the props and assets look more or less identical to 75% of the "sci-fi" asset sets you can buy on Epic's asset store. Here's your sci-fi crate. Here's you sci-fi corridors with your paneled floors. Etc, etc. It's not bad art design. It's just not good either.
Since I'm terribly free at the moment I took the time to go through 20 pages of sci-fi assets on the Unreal Marketplace and found your claim to be complete and utter bs. And that is not a matter of opinion, that is a fact.
At the very best you could claim that some of the enviroments look kinda sorta similar to Corpus enviroments but there's nothing even remotely similar to Grineer, Orokin or Sentient designs. If you disagree with that you are free to provide your own examples with links.
This is the one design somewhat similar to Warframe: https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/modular-scifi-interiors The ONE in 23 pages.
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15 minutes ago, ReaverKane said:
?
What game isn't about power fantasy? Some of the most popular dedicated PvP games have actual gods as their characters... LoL, Smite, Dota.And Overwatch is all about their characters being exceptionally powerful people.
What kind if inane argument was that?
There's a problem with feeling powerful and wiping the entire map with a press of a button when you're wiping actual other players because those players don't tend to feel very happy about it until they get their own little moment. There are some examples in kill streaks and OW ults but none of that is even close to what you can do to the poor enemies in WF.
There's also plenty of people who think kill streaks and ults and especially hard CC is casual trash in PvP settings and they honestly have a point. But that is a matter of taste I suppose.
It's always a balance of counter play and power moments in PvP which is a nightmare. I don't think OW is even a good example of a PvP game honestly. And then you have snowballing and stacking and a host of other issues PvP games like these need to deal with. Game with years of development and huge studios behind them... not a majority PvE title built very much on PvE concepts which some people think can make such greeeeeat PvP game with just a few minor tweaks and some ad banners.
WF will have good PvP mode the day Overwatch becomes perfectly balanced.
Honestly, these topics are an insult to a PvP games rather than WF. People think that making good PvP is somehow really easy.
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2 minutes ago, ReaverKane said:
Not really... I want it, don't want it to die, but don't play it because servers suck, and its impossible to get people playing. And like me there's a lot of people that think the same.
Here's a gameplay design point against PvP. Warframe is really big on power fantasy. Power fantasy and PvP... don't mix all that well. As such you need to strip significant amount of power from PvP and in doing so you strip the WF from the game mode.
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9 minutes ago, ReaverKane said:
You realize that decorating the dojo, especially to the degree that those featured ones do, involves more time than any PvP match, right? And yet, 1/10.
Yeah but you do it once and then you're mostly done. Repetition of small amounts over time adds up is that a hard concept to grasp?
Cipher is the most built BP of 2018 for example.
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6 minutes ago, ReaverKane said:
According to that people play less in the Dojo than PvP by a factor of 10... And yet they added a ton of resources and the Featured dojos feature...
The "gameplay" of dojo is building it not sitting in it. And plenty of people spent a lot of time (and possibly plat, hint hint) on building a dojo.
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6 minutes ago, S.Dust said:
They would probably watch more than they do now like I said look at what the top watched games have in common. Also streamers who play warframe and do content "they know people will watch" are not exactly rolling in viewers often. Also lunaro is part of conclave or at least I thought it was. Also I don't think most warframe partners would mind trying it out if DE shared the end goal with them they wouldn't need to pay them, plus again its not like people enjoying watching others play warframe they are more so there for the streamer and the conversation but with pvp game more is going on cooler things are happening.
Most watched games are PvP hence every PvP game will get good views. Is that really your argument?
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Well, we did get plenty of topics suggesting that WF copy a popular PvP game to reach success. Community at large didn't think it would really work. So the logical next step is to suggest WF copy a failed PvP game to reach success.
What we really need is a Warframe match 3 mobile game, that will get the hype going. Failing that maybe an MMO? Call it World of Warframe.
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You can encourage streamers to play conclave but that doesn't mean people would watch it.
Streamers still mainly play content they know people will watch and if conclave was such content they would be streaming it already.
I think even Lunaro would be more fun to watch than conclave and that mode is even deader than conclave.
How would you encourage streamers to play conclave anyway? Bribe them? "Hey everybody, come watch me play this mode they had to pay me to even touch!"
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55 minutes ago, Loza03 said:
Power Creep's hitting us so hard because the enemies are only a threat due to numbers. Increasing those numbers only delays it. Enemies right now rarely have any kind of actual strategic AI, most have no abilities that change combat and of those that do many are either rare or locked to certain planets. The rest are only a problem because after a while they can one-shot players without any kind of telegraphing.
Imagine if lancers had F.E.A.R level squad tactics AI and were actually trying to flank you and made better use of cover. Now how would that prevent frames like Saryn from wiping them out along with the rest of the room? It wouldn't and hence advanced AI wouldn't really help Warframe that much.
Anyway, the difficulty in fortuna comes from the actual objectives more so than from enemies. My Valkyr will always be immortal in Hysteria and I can easily find the energy to keep it going forever. That however won't help me to keep 3 different defence points clear of enemies that like to throw you all over the place. And that is how you create difficulty, you use objectives and mechanics instead of raw enemy scaling. That is also why endurance will never be endgame no matter how high enemy levels go or how high they start.
Imagine if enemies in current sortie level rescue actually targeted the hostage and the hostage didn't teleport all over the place as players speed through the level. The mission would be nearly impossible to complete because that hostage goes down fast and you would have to carefully guide it through the level using heavy amount of CC. So here the level of the enemies is not the problem. In Spy the level of enemies is irrelevant (and so are modifiers) yet everybody who is not masochistic solos that one. Levels don't matter, mechanics do and that is what needs to change.
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Statistics are nice and all but interpreting them is most of the battle.
The usage numbers on Zenurik are high and the first obvious reason would be that Zenurik is OP and hence needs to be nerfed right? And maybe buff other schools too? Imho this would be partial solution at best and that is if it changed anything.
Consider this:
1) Up until very recently changing your focus school was a hassle. I use Rage build on frames very often, those builds are pretty popular in general and on those Zenurik is rather pointless. Yet I'm often too lazy or simply forget to change my focus school to something that might fit better. I even frequently have to abort solo focus farm because I simply forget to pick Naramon. Imagine nerfing a mechanic because of what is essentially a UI issue. All of this counts as another point towards Zenurik usage whether I even use those abilities or not.
2) Focus is really grindy and somewhat outside of general gameplay for most people. Chances are that good amount of people will only have one focus school available to them at all. Sure, the fact that Zenurik is so useful in most situations means that people will probably pick that one to be THE school to grind for. That does mean Zenurik is stronger than others, but it's more about the utility. It's not about picking between several options, it's more about getting the most bang for your buck. This will also be hardly solved by nerfing Zenurik. people will either move to the next best thing (and will still just use one school) or drop the focus system completely.
There's more to this than just Zenurik being so darn great. The whole system has issues starting with UI and ending with the way it's separated from the general gameplay and how grindy it is.
I think Zenurik is fine. But I feel that the whole focus system is too clunky. Other schools have to be either stronger or focus has to be easier to grind or both. Also, the way lenses lock your focus gain into specific weapons... I kinda hate that. Not only does this mean I have to play the same mission over and over to grind focus, now I also use the same weapons and frames just so I can get decent focus amount, the system goes out of its way to be as unpleasant to grind for as possible. So I, like many people, just park my operator on Zenurik and forget about the whole thing.
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5 hours ago, --DSP--Jetstream said:
Let see,
Requires clan research, resources for that clan research, wait underway research time, gravimag bp require atmo & repeller system (good luck repeating phase 2), and after that you can build it, wait 3 days for build time or 50p foundry rush cost
OR
Buy it directly from market for 20p
Its the f2p business model, yeah you can farm for free, but that doesn't mean they won't make the experience as daunting as possible so its always more convenient paying with plat than paying with your time and effort 🙂
That's not really the correct pay vs farm scenario because farming 20 plat and then buying it from market would be much easier.
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4 hours ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:
Without Quick Thinking + Energy Siphon (or in those conditional missions, Rejuvenation), no way I can do the 80-100 level missions. One shot mechanics there, and there isn't always a safe place when your cloak runs out. I got it at max duration but 30 seconds isn't long when you have to clear the room of multiple spawns. I'm one tanky Loki!
You realize you can just pop into operator mode and go invincible and then relocate even if your invis runs out in the middle of a stacked group of enemies right? Turning operator mode on by itself gives you short invincibility period which is enough time to go into void mode.
You can also dash and walk through toxin clouds and tank any slash or toxin procs as long as you manage to bail out of the frame soon enough,
Which brings me to my point. People seem to forget they have invincibility button at their disposal which costs them no energy.
Endgame survivability through operators is on a whole new level. You can turn invincible, relocate and heal (Magus Elevate/Vazarin). You can tank anything and CC entire groups of enemies as you dash through them to safety.
It's a shame that most people use operators solely to spam energy and revive, they can do so much more than that. And that is even before you invest into focus and equipment. It is a huge grind though, so I can kinda understand it.
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I dread the day focus becomes really useful because focus farm is the thing I hate the most in the entire game. Either you farm in a very specific (and mindnumbingly boring) way and get decent amount or through general gameplay and get next to nothing. Not to mention that you have to pick between using the same weapon over and over and gaining focus or gaining mastery and leveling weapons.
DE has to really rethink the whole lens system and focus acquisition before changing focus further. Personally I think the lens system is worthless and should merely serve as passive supplement to focus gain. Instead focus abilities should be made more useful and active operator use in combat should reward large amount of focus, but for that they'd need to make them useful from the start and not after you have half the trees maxed out.
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What I'd like to see in WF is a megacity open world map (maybe Jupiter?). It could be much smaller but denser map and also a rather unique enviroment for open world. WF's movement system would make perfect use of vertically stacked map.
Another enviroment I'd find interesting would be partially infested dense jungle, but that fits WF much less.
One of those would be fine with me, but another flat plane kind of map would be a bit too much I think.
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Unfortunately shields have pretty much no synergy with anything else in the game. Shield gating alone wouldn't change that fact very much.
What could help is a set of "On shield break" mods with various effects that could introduce some builds and synergy between mechanics. Though DE would have to do pretty good balancing job in order for these not to be situational as hell.
Shield gating also wouldn't help against typical causes of death for shield builds. Like having 2k shields Harrow turn a corner at high level mission walking into a gas cloud that instantly wipes your measly 300hp. Sure feels nice to die with over 2k of shields.
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9 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:
Of course, once the median of those prices hits the thousands we are in Frankenstein's Monster territory...The prices have now hit a point where DE won't make (as much) money from plat purchases because most players won't purchase plat in the amounts needed to afford these inflated rivens...Even the garbage ones.
Now it's just constantly circulating old plat.
But hey, you and the OP can keep worrying about dispositions, plat discounts, simulated cancers, tragedies, random hyperbole, and cry emojis if that's what floats your boat.
...Who am I to judge?
Have a great day.
If platinum buyers aren't buying these rivens though then who is? Either no one is buying them in which case riven are inert as far as economy is concerned or high roller traders are buying them. That would mean that rich traders are funneling plat in smaller amounts from platinum buyers and then circulating that plat between themselves with rivens or hoarding it. So that would make rich traders themselves a platinum sink of the non-riven market. The platinum you pay has to come from somewhere, someone had to buy it. And if they didn't buy it in 5k amount just to buy a riven then a trader had to funnel smaller purchase amounts to afford those high prices.
Either some platinum buyers are indeed sinking their plat into rivens or rich traders are juggling that plat between themselves and hence removing it from the non-riven market anyway. The scenario where absurd riven prices cripple plat sales just doesn't make much sense to me.
It's not like either of us have data to prove anything but just logically how does people not being able to afford rivens affect plat sales? Are they discouraged by seeing those prices? Presumably people will still buy plat in amounts to buy conveniences, prime parts, mods and cosmetics and rivens change absolutely nothing about that.
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14 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:
The problems right now is that inflation has priced most players who'd buy plat out of the market entirely and has attracted a black market to boot making sellers wary...That's what DE has to solve for as they can lose revenue, players, and reputation if they don't.
Priced most players out of what market? Riven market?
Rivens are not basic commodity. Especially godtier rivens are mostly a gross overkill for any of the game's content. They're luxury goods, superfluous and expensive.
The bread and rice of warframe market is not rivens, it's basic mods and prime parts and those are as affordable as ever and entirely unaffected by rivens (vaulting though, that's another matter). Or is the implication here that players who got rich on rivens will start buying basic prime parts for ridiculous prices and hence ruin the market for poor players?
Riven market should be largely separate anyway. Solely the fact that it shares chat with other trading makes a lot of people annoyed. Just putting it in its own corner would be a huge improvement.
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Arguments in this topic would make sense if rivens were some important basic commodity and the implementation of said commodity priced poor masses out of the market.
But... rivens are not important basic commodity. In 99.9% of the game's content godtier rivens are complete overkill. If there was some kind of endgame content that absolutely required rivens on already strong meta weapons to clear then you'd have an argument that riven market is exploitative and harmful but that isn't the case.
So we have a largely superfluous commodity selling for ridiculous prices. Rivens are luxury goods of Warframe. Of course people in trading will tell you that you absolutely must have these things, they're trying to sell them!
Also, I know they're being advertised for such prices but are they actually selling? Most people will just copy the price they see others posting for since they have no idea how valuable rivens actually are. Until we get actual data on the volume of sales at these prices we can only speculate.
If there's anyone rivens can possibly exploit it's the obsessive 100 percenter minmaxing personality type. And well... those are exploited by gaming systems across the entire industry.
I do find it sad that the system which meant to encourage poeple to go out of their comfort zone and try different things resulted in simply widening the meta weapon category. But I don't know to what extent that is the fault of the system and to what extent it's the fault of the players. I'm fine with rivens because I don't see them as lottery tickets. I see them as a way to make more niche weapons more viable as is intended. The only way DE can force people to see rivens that way is to make them completely untradable and I'm not sure people really want that.
The fact is that if you want to engage in the riven system as it was inteded (boosting weak weapons, and encouraging you to build stuff you wouldn't normally use) you absolutely can without spending a single plat. Just go get yourself some rivens and farm some kuva. Sure it is RNG but if you could selectively pursue a riven for a weapon it would defeat the point of the system. So how exactly are players who use the riven system the intended way harmed by the ridiculous market pricing?
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Well, Ember has fire on her head ergo she should be immune to fire. Nova is constantly venting antimatter from her back and hence should explode the moment she comes into contact with a single air molecule. And Mesa should just be immune to pistols I guess.
Melee 3.0 would be catastrophic to the game
in General Discussion
Posted · Edited by LocoWithGun
So far there seems to be fewer complaints about melee 3.0 than there were about melee 2.0 and parkour 2.0. It's a bit ironic how people lobby for rollback of a system that wouldn't exist if DE listened to such people back then.
Anyone remember melee 1.0 when charged attack were the most used builds on melee? Melee 2.0 completely removed that (they were added back in much later) and people complained, just like people complain about removal of quick melee now.
Everything will be just fine. Feedback is always gonna be mostly negative anyway because people happy with the game don't take time to make threads on forums.