BrendanatorX
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Posts posted by BrendanatorX
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Many games have issues where wearing headgear removes your characters beard, this is unfortunately present in Warframe.
I first noticed this with the Drifter Dex Hood, but it is present in many others both with the hood open and closed such as the Drifter Grineer Hood and Bishamo Helmets. -
Me and some others are also having no infested spawning on round 4 on the tier 1 plague star bounty, I was excited to do this and haven't been able to complete it.
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Also again for the love of god please just add an auto-melee toggle, it has issues that everyone is currently forced into and could be removed simply by turning off auto-melee.
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There are currently a number of bugs while using the Merulina ability, such as mods (like hydraulic/galvanized scope) not applying their buffs, falling through elevator platforms, occulysts treating you as invisible, door controls on the Zariman not taking damage from guns or abilities while riding Merulina and apparently a broken ui element for picking up voidplumes and how many you've found but only while on Merulina?
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Extremely disappointed that you nerfed that.
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Garuda's Talons are still counted as an ability instead of a melee weapon since U33.5 which was never mentioned in the patch notes and nobody is saying anything about it.
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Garuda's Talons are still counted as an ability instead of a melee weapon since U33.5 which was never mentioned in the patch notes and nobody is saying anything about it.
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The ui sometimes flickers in this update, which may be triggering for some people.
So far it has happened on the login reward screen and either the mod screen or arsenal screen.
Unfortunately I don't have more info to give at this time, but if/when I do I will add it. -
As per my previous bug report
Garuda's talons still cannot harm nullifiers within their nullify bubble like other melee weapons can.
And furthermore the Rauta does not give combo count to Garuda's Talons like every other melee weapon either.
Please fix, it's been a few weeks now. 💝
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PC - U:33.0.6 - 8th May 2023
Both Singleplayer and MultiplayerI was made aware while playing with a friend that the 2x > 3x headshot damage change form the Veilbreaker update is working inconsistently.
He noticed that while using a Furis in a Veil Proxima railjack mission, he was only getting 2x headshot damage against empyrean grineer enemies, and when I tested with my Afuris Prime in the simulacrum against an Aerial Commander, I was only getting 2.7x headshot damage.
Upon further testing, it appears that depending on the enemy, their level and the amount of armor they have, the damage inconsistently fluctuates between 2x and 3x on headshots.
I have to assume this is due to terrible calculation of the damage rather than a flat multiplier being applied after damage calculation is done. Where either the headshot multiplier is somehow also quantized or armor is being applying a second time to the additional damage added from a headshot?Either way it's stupid and I'd love for this to be looked at.
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To add to my previous comment, here are some more enigmas which broke and become unable to be completed. This time these occurrences were in multiplayer however, and that may be why, but maybe not.
First up we have an enigma right behind Artisan Hamlet toward the stone fractal, there are a few places outside this little cave to place this Enigma Glyph Stone, but it's currently stuck up there, drifter can't jump up, you can't grab it during a jump, kaithe doesn't help, it just taunts you from above, breaking the enigma.
Secondly, we have this two person Enigma in the hanging city beneath Titan's Rest.
From what my friend and I could surmise, after grabbing the Engima Glyph Stone from the centre building, the circular metal container to the left of the tubular bell on the upper left balcony is supposed to come into play, however from the other side, it appeared empty and see through. There was no button to shoot inside it, nor could the enigma glyph stone be thrown in it, it would just vibrate inside it or fall out after a second, we did an exhaustive search of the area for 15 minutes trying to find other pieces to this puzzle that may come into play, but it appears everything you need is within this picture, unfortunately because of this, it was also unable to be completed.
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After finishing a 'The Lone Story' Sorrow Spiral, Post-Orowyrm but still in Duviri without extracting, I noticed that if I went down to the bottom of the 'Chamber of Muses' toward the screen half buried with a man sitting next to it, the entire world would visually disappear, I could still stand on it, and if I managed to move back up the path, it would reappear, but it did get me stuck falling off the edge and struggling to find my way back for 30 seconds.
I did return here during in the next spiral and find it working fine.. perhaps something after defeating the orowyrm causes this bug?
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So, here's the thing.. The first character used simulates the AW sound:
This has previously been used in the words "Water" and "Molluscs" for the sound produced by the second letter, but also for an unknown word that is roughly "P-AW-N-D-A" on various signs around Cetus.
Besides signs, the character has been used on Arcanes for the words "Maul" and "Pawn", assuming they are intended to be as is and not simply parts of other words found on the signage around Cetus as I suspect a lot of the Arcane scripture is.Point is, someone messed up and you'll probably want to change it to this:
Now, This set of character's is phonetically AH + EE, which was used in the first Ostron language teasers for the design council and for Tennocon to denote the word "I" meaning 'ME'.
However when the sound is used in the middle of other words they are used vertically instead of the horizontal fashion seen above, like in the word "Arrived" on a sign in Cetus.I wrote the cipher for this language, I've spent hours on this, I know what I'm talking about.
Whoever did this, may have made an oops, otherwise the language has some flaws and the people of Cetus don't know how to write their own language.
To my knowledge, it's most likely the language was written using Canadian English and pronunciation, so there are certain phonetics which may mismatch depending on your accent and your local pronunciation, making translation more difficult, but there are limits to that, for lore and continuity purposes, please fix this.-
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Having your random public squadmates decide for you when to leave and using navigation on YOUR ship, forcing you to lose all the pickups you haven't collected and wanted to is definitely super annoying.
And vice versa, when you're someone who joined on someones ship but want to return to dry dock after your mission, you either have to wait for everyone else to finish the new mission that was already selected before you got any say in it, or quickly force it back to drydock and annoy everyone else.
Either way I agree with OP that only the host should control their own ship's navigation and furthermore, everyone should have the ability to leave squad and return separately.
Aborting isn't an option because then even though you successfully completed your mission in space, it will give you a mission failed screen because you technically aborted and didn't return the naturally intended way along with the ship and the rest of it's crew who wouldn't have given you a choice in the first place, it's complete garbage right now that needs to change, it's something that makes me want to to try playing solo instead of bothering with other people in a multiplayer game where I should be enjoying the squad assistance on a ship intended to be manned by 4 people. -
Exactly, that's what I'm saying, it's annoying as heck and definitely needed for everything.
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TYPE: In-game
DESCRIPTION: On 2 different occasions, I received inbox messages after a completed 100/100 murex raid I contributed to a flotilla during, and received Condrix and Murex Emblems, but no Scarlet Credits to match my contributions, so I was bummed to be missing out on my bonus and really hoping I can get inboxed that after the fact even though is a tad late now.
VISUAL: https://imgur.com/a/tRX4dFh
REPRODUCTION: I honestly have no idea what caused it or how it happened to reproduce it.
EXPECTED RESULT: On the first occurance, I expected to get at least 2400-4800 scarlet credits in my inbox and the second occasion at least1200-2400 scarlet credits in the inbox after doubling score/contribution.
OBSERVED RESULT: Only Emblem badges were received, and on the first occasion I received an emblem twice which I suspect essentially replaced the spot where my credits should be, since I believe you're only intended to receive one emblem per flotilla based on your score of 1000, 3000 or 5000 doing Condrix or Murex missions.
REPRODUCTION RATE: It has occurred twice without trying to make it happen. I want my scarlet credits, not to waste my time.
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Lore suggests Sentinels are likely more than just 'pieces of metal' and that each are made a little differently per faction who made them.
That said, there is logic in that something smaller like sentinels wouldn't be as tanky or capable as a Warframe, though they are uniquely adapted Tenno companions which we outfit with mods to be more than they were and they're rather susceptible to AOE attacks which is just bad for business. This is something that can be combated with adding link mods, more options for heal/repair rate, better options for heal/repair. It's lucky that theres's a +shield recharge rate mod but there isn't one for shield recharge delay and honestly the two could even go together on the same mod.Animal companions I think there's less of an issue with, though I can agree that they do often rush in and get hurt, which I believe should be combated extra 'evasion' effectiveness since they are smaller and run around so much. I may even say the same for Sentinels, they're smaller and harder to hit.
As far as vacuum goes, I do think further work needs to be done on this. I honestly believe Warframes and heck maybe even Operators should get at least a roughly 3-5m passive vacuum radius to help pick things up which you can't directly boop, currently the radius is probably like 1-1.5m though I couldn't easily find the exact amount; and on top of that have sentinels apply a roughly 10-12m radius on top of that so that vacuum/radius radius around the Warframe/Operator caps with at least 15m radius and maybe even up to 20 if I may be so greedy.
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I wish I could report this as a bug, but I believe it to just be a large oversight.
I will preface with saying that invulnerability periods exist for a reason. A main reason might be that being instantly killed upon starting a mission, joining a mission, being revived or resurrecting yourself by holding the interact key because you were surrounded by enemies still or respawned into an environmental hazard is absolutely frustrating for players and will make them feel like they aren't given a chance. It's the kind of thing that can make players give up or feel like the situation is unfair. There are of course other reasons like ai or scripts breaking but this is less about that.
Usually that's just a worst case scenario, but in that case a player will recognise that something was too difficult or that they made mistakes in the way they handled a situation but won't get to try again with it fresh in their mind, instead being forced to sit on the sidelines while everyone else completes the mission, or abort and start the mission all over again and potentially be in the same scenario 10-15 minutes later. This can make it harder to learn how to overcome it or at least, take a longer time, and come at a detriment to any squadmates who just lost one of their team. When it's this worst case scenario, the ability to revive is essentially pointless or nonexistent, a wasted feature, and on top of that, you just lose affinity each time you try, adding insult to injury.
On the contrary, when you give players that tiny invulnerability window, they get a chance to act on that realisation of difficulty or a mistake, to move out of the way of whatever killed them, to take a step back and think over how to better tackle it. You can't get too mad about that when you were given the chance to do better, if you keep failing, it means you weren't trying to survive or it truly is too difficult to get past yet, even with a plan or teammates, likely because not well enough equipped. This also benefits situations where someone may have been killed due to a bug, or died in a laser on an Orokin tileset, or maybe you're running a mission where everyone ran ahead and couldn't run back to revive you or save you from a particularly sticky situation. Bad things can happen, things can go wrong, this helps solve it or make it less of an issue because you have that chance to try again, do better or catch up.
The problem is, the same can't be said about companions. There is specifically a resurrection mod for Sentinels because firstly they're so often used and an important part of any loadout, secondly, they die too easy there needs to be more mods and better mods for their survivability because there's often a need to revive them, and thirdly, there's no natural invulnerability phase like there should be. Regen Specifically adds something that is currently naturally given to Warframes and is in my opinion extremely important. If your companion dies and they either run out of revives from any mods they may have to give them that capability, or if they don't use one or have that option, they're gone, and the only way to get them back is to let your Warframe die and bleed out, and then resurrect yourself by holding the interact key. Successfully bringing back your Warframe and your companion, for the .5 seconds it takes for a high level enemy to instakill them again while you are completely unharmed. For any devs who may cross this, here's something you may not realise; There are many people, including myself, who will intentionally try to die, to kill my own Warframe, forfeit my affinity gained, just to resurrect and have my sentinel back because I wanted or needed the utility it brought to the table. And y'know what? I'll even do it multiple times in a mission if I need that vacuum or the loot/enemy radar from Animal Instinct or the set mod bonuses they were modded for. High level content is not companion friendly and that needs to change.
Another thing, Archwings leaving the Railjack. Yes you gave us a 2 or 3 second invulnerability phase. But in my opinion, it barely covers the animation for leaving the railjack and being equipped with your archwing for flight, wanna know what happens if you leave a railjack while a crewship is firing missiles at it over and over? You die because you invulnerability stopped as soon as the animation that held you in place did and hardly left you a chance to leave without at least taking some damage, which for a weaker archwing like Itzal or an archwing that hasn't been modded well, means an almost certain death, even just one more second invulnerable would go a long way.
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About negative damage? That isn't something I've encountered, and was outside the scope of my investigation, I didn't start by looking for bugs so much as figuring out how things worked and comparing intention to actual effect.
What you said about researched information not being validated or proven, I did show some math in my bug report that I linked and I can further write equations at will and point others to referenced information ingame and out as proof that can easily be compared and replicated ingame, but you may have to do or watch a video of it yourself to decide that it is proven, everyone has to decide that for themselves until a DE dev literally writes a message stating it as fact.
The easiest example I can give you is an unmodded Krohkur in warframe builder which currently has no quantization directly takes the 26 impact damage listed and goes +50% vs shield = 39 damage vs corpus shield. and so on showing a listed 224.135 in the details page. Ingame damage floaties are rounded, you never see decimals, so going by Warframe Builder, it should deal 224 vs shield, but you see 222 ingame, which matches a quantized answer of 222.425. if you try to calculate crits and multipliers, the quantized answers currently are the ones you see ingame popping up. I can't say why it works the way it works, but I imagine it's unlikely for it to have been intended to calculate some other way and somehow accidentally also be 1/16th quantization answers by pure coincedence, it's too accurate.
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Wiki info isn't always up to date right away plus wiki info shows things that ingame doesn't tell you.
I don't know anything about this tool you use so I can't speak to how it works.. I know some of the information detailed in my report isn't relevant, like for finishers, because as previously stated, they aren't implemented into Warframe Builder yet, but was just wanting to point you in the direction of information which can be used both currently and in future, to improve the accuracy of what's shown.As far as what can be used at present, I can see that your listed stats with mods like pressure point go by multipliers of the base values, which is the correct way of doing things rather than just what it says is the new value for a given stat in the arsenal ingame, however there are some exceptions like the Atterax which actually deals 6.45 Impact and puncture despite showing 6.5 ingame, I have just noticed upon checking the wiki that it had already been figured out and put up on the wiki for quite some time. This in any case is an occasion where Warframe Builder doesn't have the right weapon stats so the values it shows will be slightly off. Furthermore, the damage values listed in the details tab which says how much damage vs each health type the weapon will do are also inaccurate because they are not quantized. it's a relatively easy formula to learn and use, also hopefully easy to add into Warframe Builder, and it would go a long way to helping people properly see what their damage will be if they are using Warframe Builder for that. The more accurate the better and that's just how the damage system calculates your damage dealt on hit ingame.
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There was a change since Update 27.3.0 Operation Scarlet Spear which affected the ingame stats shown and used when +% damage mods are equipped for melee, I didn't test for primaries/secondaries so I honestly don't know about those.
My apologies for the info dump and linking to a bug report I made, but a lot can be learned here and implemented that isn't listed anywhere else.Hope it helps!
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I apologize for how long and potentially complicated this is, I want to also say that I'm not a mathematician or game developer, so this is very on the fly, but I've done my best to show my findings and ensure that people understand what I'm talking about in the first place and furthermore how I came to these conclusions.
I started writing this and investigating the workings of melee and how damage works when trying to figure out how to min/max some melee builds for finishers and heavy attacks about two weeks before Update 27.3.0 aka Operation: Scarlet Spear. This update has either fixed or changed a few of these things to some degree, but in no way invalidates the purposes of this article as the points I bring up here are interconnected and even when not working at the forefront may still be affecting something behind the scenes.
List of changes I've noticed since the update that weren't listed in patch notes:
Pressure Point now shows more accurately rounded damage numbers with decimals and totals.
Internal finisher damage calculations for weapons using Pressure Point calculate more accurately now.
Heavy attacks/slam attacks are now correctly multiplying the weapon's damage while using Pressure Point.Below this section are explanations of the different areas which need or needed to be looked at when I started writing this, though I will list a few important points here as a TLDR first:
- Arsenal UI shows rounded numbers and decimals which don't accurately reflect the weapon's actual base damage. This would not be as much of a problem if it were ONLY for modded damage values as adding percentages can end up causing complicated decimals and it makes more sense at that point, however this should be changed so that what you see is what you get and you don't end up with more confusing damage numbers and calculations down the line.
- Floating Damage Numbers sometimes appears to be off by a small margin, perhaps mostly noticeable in critical damage? but I now think that it may be to do with the real damage values that we only see rounded versions of in the Arsenal UI.
- Physical/Elemental damage added from mods only contributes 50% of it's value to Finishers and there is little to no good or logical reason for the developer in charge of that system to design it that way. How it ended up that way on a technical level is explained below.
- Finishing Touch (+60%) and Pressure Point (+60%) should function the same as far as final finisher damage, but I did see one or two examples where they gave different values. This may have been fixed since.
- Damage multipliers and forced status effects per hit for melee combos are undocumented in-game, and it would be great if that could be shown on the combo screen for each stance similarly to how the warframe wiki has it laid out eg. melee (100%), melee (200%), block+melee (3 x 100%) or heavy attack (600% + bleed status).
- Certain finisher multipliers which I have listed below are either way too low or broken and need to be looked at.
- The quantization mechanic that the damage system is built on, it isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it is a very behind the scenes system that tricks players who think they will actually be dealing the damage they see in the Arsenal UI.
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First and foremost, in 2018 someone discovered that all Damage is quantized into 16ths before hitting an enemy rather than damage going directly by the numbers listed in the arsenal ui, I only just learned this when I started all this and I'm unsure if this is the actual first mention/original source but:Total Weapon Damage / 16 = Quantum
Damage Type # / Quantum = # Rounded to the nearest whole number.
Rounded # x Quantum = Quantized Damage Type #
This is done for each listed damage type for the weapon and after all damage types have been quantized, the distribution of total damage between damage types may be higher or lower than it started.With damage types now quantized, modifiers and multipliers for 'Criticals', 'Stealth Damage' hits and 'Finishers' can then be applied as needed, followed by 'Damage Vs Health Type' modifiers (Eg. vs Infested Flesh, Ferrite Armor or Shield). However finishers convert damage types into True Damage which ignore armor and resistances, therefore you should not include damage vs health type modifiers on top of a finisher multiplier. It is best ordered like this:
Quantized Damage Type x (1 + (Stealth Multiplier -1) + (Critical Multiplier -1))Then x Finisher Multiplier or +/- Damage Vs Health Type Modifier.
Stealth Multiplier is 2.0x at unranked +0.2x per rank. Totaling 8.0x at rank 30 and 10.0x at rank 40.
Critical Multiplier can vary between numbers like 1.5x and 3.7x depending on the weapon.
The 1 at the start of the round brackets denotes 'damage x 1', and the -1 for stealth and critical is to remove the 1x usually included in the multipliers when used on their own, thus allowing them to be used additively.And as mentioned at the start, here is and example of what it would look like if you were using a Krohkur:
Total Weapon Damage (217) / 16 = Quantum (13.5625)
26.0 Impact / Quantum = 2 x Quantum = 27.125 Quantized Impact +50% Vs Shield = 40.6875 Quantized Impact Vs Shield
39.1 Puncture / Quantum = 3 x Quantum = 40.6875 Quantized Puncture -20% Vs Shield = 32.55 Quantized Puncture Vs Shield
151.9 Slash / Quantum = 11 x Quantum = 149.1875 Quantized Slash
Total Quantized Damage Vs Shield = 222.425
If you were Invisible or the enemy was unaware of you, your Stealth Damage would be 222.425 x8.0 = 1,779.4 vs shield
If you were to do a Critical hit your damage would be 222.425 x2.3 = 511.5775 (Ingame it will currently say 511 instead of 512 due to an error.)
If you were to Critical hit your Stealth Damage, it would be 222.425 x 9.3 = 2068.5525 (Ingame it will currently say 2068 instead of 2069 because of an error.)
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Floating text numbers stating how much damage was done per hit or dot tick doesn't show decimal values for that intended damage, so it 'attempts' to round to the nearest whole number and display that. There have however been many occasions on which the numbers that showed up were on a small scale, not as expected.
Some examples are:
Krohkur 120% pressure point critical hit vs shield (1124 instead of 1125.4705 (1125 rounded)), Krohkur unmodded crit vs shield (511 instead of 512 rounded (511.5775) or Krohkur unmodded stealth crit vs shield (2068 instead of 2069 rounded (2068.5525), Krohkur 60% pressure point crit vs shield (817 instead of 818), Gazal Machete 120% pressure point Heavy Attack vs shield (609 instead of 608.49375 (round to 608))
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Speaking of errors, ingame calculations have had inconsistancies that warrant fixing if possible. This I assume is directly tied to the aforementioned quantization, damage floaties and failure to round to nearest whole numbers at times. However there are cases of this going beyond just failing to round damage numbers up or down one digit and some things have seemed impossible to calculate because of either errors in the game's own calculations or because it uses different values than we are given. So far it appears to be better in some cases since the update, however prior to this update, using damage mods could break it quite often and I believe this was due to +% damage mods creating decimal values along with using different values than we were shown, which to quote others I have seen speaking about damage calculations in the arsenal.. 'is another lie we are being told'.
An example of error using the Krohkur:(Using +120% pressure point) 477 listed (57.2|85.9|333.9)
477 / 16 = 29.8125
57.2 / q = 2 x q = 59.625 x8 = 477 x8 = 3816
85.9 / q = 3 x q = 89.4375 x8 = 715.5 x8 = 5724
333.9 / q = 11 x q = 327.9375 x8 = 2623.5 x8 = 20988
q477 x8 = 3816 x8 = 30528
While these numbers do not accurately represent +120% of the listed stats of an unmodded Krohkur, this math here in theory should have been correct going by what is listed in the arsenal, however different values or sequences of calculations were used ingame, leading instead to dealing 30544 finisher damage. Even attempting to substitute true +120% values retuns an incorrect answer as seen below.
477.4 / 16 = 29.8375
57.2 / q = 2 x q = 59.675
86.02 / q = 3 x q = 89.5125
334.18 / q = 11 x q = 328.2125
477.4 total x8 x8 = 30553.6
The same was true for Silva and Aegis Prime, however as of the recent update, the damage type values and total damage value shown in the arsenal while using pressure point have changed, and with it the ingame damage calculations, which now are correct both in theory and in practice, returning a damage value of 30554, 10 damage higher than previously achieved.
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I have noticed that where applicable due to damage mods, some listed decimals will actually show a rounded up/down amount of potentially larger than single digit decimal values, for example 10.1 instead of 10.1451. I believe it is less an issue that we cannot see reflected so exactly, but more of an issue that numbers are not correctly being calculated and not correctly showing up as what they are or should be as it is misleading. If a weapon says it does xyz amount total damage, that should be the exact damage the weapon does total, and if the weapon says it does xyz.x physical damage or xyz.z elemental damage, it should be the amount that the weapon does if possible at the very least when completely unmodded. That should always be absolutely true for every weapon. And ideally once mods are included after that, should be at least better reflected, even if unable to be 100% due to slight 100ths or 1000ths of a decimal.
Whether it was intentionally/manually forced this way for weapons or if it is the game itself's calculation algorithms which do it is not something I know.
Examples of some messed up values:
Cassowar, 188 base damage total with a +100% pressure point shows 376 damage total listed but total damage if you added up the listed values for each damage type was actually 375.9
Silva & Aegis Prime & Shaku using pressure point at +60% or +120% which due to being single damage type, were messed up too, especially comparing +Damage to +Physical or +Elemental, which should all add the same amount of damage, but don't, and on top of that screwing with the decimals.
Zaws on the other hand are like a crazy exception where everything is either working better or woking way way worse, decimals function properly, but the values are all over the place so it's harder to keep track of.
Atterax has 129 listed total but 129.1 damage total from it's damage types and lists 581 heavy attack damage (4.5x for whips) rather than 580.5 or 580.95 total damage x4.5 depending on how you do it.
Lesion has 237 listed total but 237.1 damage total from it's damage types and lists 1442 heavy attack damage (6.0x for polearms) which would be correct if it wasn't supposed to add up to 1422.6.
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Pressure Point/Spoiled Strike/Rivens (and possibly other similar mods for melee, secondaries and primaries) did not always add a true +% to unmodded damage type numbers listed or the listed total, nor to the listed heavy attack/slam attack values listed. Speaking of, half the weapons ingame do not show decimal values while the other half show at least a .0 at the end.
Furthermore, said +% damage mods would erase decimal values for the listed damage total which as seen in previous examples, causes a Krohkur to show 477 rather than 477.4 and beyond that, mess up the order of operations when calculating damage by way of erasing decimals for the amounts damage added to each damage type rather than being applied to the listed damage type values which should be what we have before even starting calculations.
Another Krohkur example of weird ways this worked:An unmodded finisher deals 13888 damage.
217 (26i|39.1p|151.9s) listed (Unmodded)
217 / 16 = 13.5625
26.0 / q = 2 x q = q27.125i x8 = 217
39.1 / q = 3 x q = q40.6875p x8 = 325.5
151.9 / q = 11 x q = q149.1875s x8 = 1193.5
q217 total x8 = 1736 x8 = 13888t (matches)
If you add up the x8 numbers without decimals, you get 1735.
1735 +120% from pressure point = 2082 x8 = 16656
13888 + 16656 = 30544 which is correct, but this is bizzare because the finisher damage should be multiples of the base damage, which gets increased by +% damage mods.A +120% pressure point finisher deals 30544 damage.
477 (57.2i|85.9p|333.9s) listed (+120% Pressure point)
477.4 / 16 = 29.8375
57.2 / q = 2 x q = 59.675 x8 = 477.4
85.9 / q = 3 x q = 89.5125 x8 = 716.1
333.9 / q = 11 x q = 328.2125 x8 = 2625.7
q477.4 total x8 = 3,819.2 x8 = 30,553.6 (wrong)
q476 without decimals x8 x8 = 30,464 (wrong)
Again if you add up the x8 numbers without their decimals this method uniquely does work again, adding up to 3818 x8 = 30544 but any decimal altering should have occured at the very start, making this appear very broken. These occurances were near impossible to figure out without bending the rules and changing the order of operations.
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Finishing touch was not immune to these kinds of errors either and using a Finishing Touch +60% would only achieve the same finisher damage numbers as when using Pressure Point +60% half the time, being slightly off the other half of the time depending on the weapon and it's values.
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Another curiosity I found was in the case of Physical and Elemental damage mods which are applied rather differently.
Firstly, two things I was already aware of, but will list for posterity.
Physical damage mods only increase pre-existing physical damage by a percentage of that pre-existing number, Eg. 100 Impact +100% Impact will give you 200 Impact but if your weapon doesn't have any impact damage to begin with, impact mods will do nothing.
Elemental damage mods add a percentage of the total weapon damage as elemental damage, eg. if you use a +60% Heat damage mod on a weapon with 100 Total damage (spread across 50 impact, 25 puncture and 25 slash) you simply add 60 heat damage as it is 60% of the total damage.
Now for a few parts that aren't mentioned anywhere.
Damage added by physical or elemental damage mods is calculated separately to pre-existing physical or elemental damage rather than as a combined number, and when quantizing those separate values, they are 16ths of the weapon's total damage before adding the physical or elemental damage mods, which going by the previously used example, 100 total damage (50 impact, 25 puncture, 25 slash) you would quantize each of the impact, puncture and slash values by a 16th of 100 total damage listed. However if you add 60 heat damage from a mod, you will see the arsenal say a total 160 damage, but still be required to quantize 60 using a 16th of 100 damage total and the same is true for if you added physical mod, for example +50% impact damage would add 25 impact damage but be quantized using a 16th of 100 instead of 125 total damage.
Lastly is the interaction of added physical and elemental damage values with finishers. I believe I saw somewhere that physical and elemental damage mods did not contribute to finisher damage in the past. This is no longer the case, however it comes at the cost of a rather bothersome condition, only 50% of the damage added by physical or elemental damage contributes to finisher damage. I don't think this makes any sense, I'm hoping its unintentional and can be fixed, but that's how it is.
Even if you more than double the weapon's total damage because of only physical/elemental damage mods, you still get less than double of an increase in finisher damage and probably struggle to to add even half the damage. Not only is this not mentioned anywhere but it's silly. There are currently maybe only two weapons left since the melee 3.0 rework which have a single damage type, Shaku which is Impact-only and Silva & Aegis (Prime) which is heat-only. For those weapons, adding a +60% pressure point is essentially the same as adding +60% impact or +60% heat to match the damage type it already deals as far as you will see in the arsenal, but get very different results in damage.
At least now pressure point will show the same damage values with the mysteriously undocumented change since the update, though otherwise all of this is still true.
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A largely undocumented part of melee is the extra damage and forced status procs on different kinds of attacks depending on weapon type or stance used. Some attacks will deal flat multiples of total damage dealth and others may just add extra % of a damage type eg. Tatsu does +100% puncture damage after damage calculations for ground finishers.
For example:Tatsu: 214 Listed ( 20i | 54p | 68s | 72r ) x12 Ground Finisher
214 / 16 = 13.375
20i / q = 1 x q = 13.375i
54p / q = 4 x q = 53.5p
68s / q = 5 x q = 66.875s
72r / q = 5 x q = 66.875r
q200.625 total ( 13.375i | 53.5p | 66.875s | 66.875r )
13.375i | +50% = 20.0625i | 20.0625i |
53.5p | -20% = 42.8p | +100% = 85.6p |
66.875s | = 66.875s | 66.875s |
66.875r | -25% = 50.15625r | 50.15625r |
|total = 179.89375 | |
| 222.69375 | x12 = 1672.325
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As far as heavy and slam attacks which I briefly touched on already, they were intended as multiples of your weapon's current damage and to be affected by mods. This is not always easy to work out as for one a great deal of weapons will not display decimals at all for their heavy attacks and for the ones that do, some happily display .0 while others will happily display .1 to .9 but regardless of that roughly half of melee weapons displayed no decimal at all and even some of the ones that did, didn't even match up as a multiple of the damage values listed. Even so, heavy attacks and slam attacks damage appeared rather mismatched. Some seemed to work correctly as a multiple of the intended regular damage after mods were applied, though most appeared to instead scale based on an unmodded heavy attack which then had mods applied.
Some examples of this I already added above where it seemed relevant, but deserve to be here too as they in particular served as good examples.
Atterax has 129 listed total but 129.1 damage total from it's damage types and lists 581 heavy attack damage (4.5x for whips) rather than 580.5 or 580.95 total damage x4.5 depending on how you do it.
Lesion has 237 listed total but 237.1 damage total from it's damage types and lists 1442 heavy attack damage (6.0x for polearms) which would be correct if it wasn't supposed to add up to 1422.6.
Gazal Machete also makes this list as far as heavy attack damage not lining up correctly, however since the update passed, I no longer have the stats to list here.
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Lastly, random finisher fun fact, I went and checked the finisher multipliers for all weapon types during my investigation and there are a few which are either broken, don't make sense or deserve a buff which I will list here.
Dark Split-Sword (Dual Swords): 2.0x stealth/back/front finisher multiplier while all other dual swords deal 8.0x. I don't think I have to explain why this is silly, finishers should be powerful and by comparison to other dual swords, this is a rather big downgrade.
Dark Split-Sword (Heavy Blade): 3.0x stealth, 2.0x back and 0.5x front finisher multipliers while all other heavy blades deal 12.0x stealth/back and 2x front finishers. (Again, not very strong finishers, less than even a dagger and 0.5x? I mean imagine doing a special attack called a "Finisher" that hits for less damage than a regular attack, someone definitely messed that up.)
Heavy Blade: 2x front finisher, which again, is rather low for a finisher, and I get that the weapon has high base damage already, but if you're gonna make a finisher do barely the same damage as a barebones critical hit it's not very exciting.
Redeemer (Gunblade): 3x front finisher also quite a low amount.
Sarpa (Gunblade) 1.75x front finisher, again, low, just how did this get decided on?
Daggers are at 4x for stealth/back/front finishers but I wouldn't call it that excessively low either.
Kesheg (Polearm): 6.543x stealth/back/front finisher while every other polearm deals 6x. I don't think this one is a problem, it is a kuva weapon after all so it's kinda canon for it to be stronger so that's awesome, just was an interesting find.
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Once again thank you for reading, this is the end of my investigation, I am absolutely drained and I hope I can finally get back to enjoying the game and start the new event. I would absolutely like to the points I've made here be acknowledged and to any Devs reading this, if there are any explanations you can give, info you can share for each of these systems, including whether what I've found is intentional or not, please do so, and if any changes are made to big systems like this, it would be great to see them properly documented in patch notes.
Regards, BrendanatorXPost edit updates:
I've discovered Atterax's true impact and puncture values are actually 6.45 rather than 6.5 listed, I'm sure this is the case for many weapons and as far as accurately knowing what your weapon will deal after being increased by multipliers and such, it does matter.
Krohkur's IPS spread (rounded numbers) with a +165% pressure point currently say 69.0 instead of 68.9 for impact, 103.5 instead of 103.6 for impact, though slash remains accurate. I have no choice but to guess that it's listed values are also misrepresented like for Atterax or mods like Pressure Point are still not functioning properly.-
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A possibly important calculation I just thought of but didn't find is finishers, is there any chance of Stealth Damage Bonus and Finisher calculations being added?
For example total damage numbers for:
Ground Finishers (Which are not true damage, but are damage multiplied and treated as a finisher for modding purposes, the multiplier being different depending on weapon class. Also stealth damage is typically only possible if someone else knocks the enemy down since you lose the stealth damage bonus for 3 seconds if you interact with the enemy and cause it).
Stealth Attack Finishers, Back Finishers and Front Finishers (Which are converted to true damage, Stealth Damage multiplied, and also finisher multiplied differently per weapon class and differently depending whether it is a Front or Back Finisher).
Plus Stealth Damage Bonus which is a melee damage multiplier based on enemies being either unaware of you or you being invisible and strangely the multiplier is dependent on weapon rank, eg. unranked melee weapons deal +100% damage while invis making it 2x damage and rank 30 gains +700% damage while invis making it 8x damage, even scaling up for the few melee weapons that scale to rank 40 which end up dealing +900% damage while invis making it 10x damage.
All of these can co-interact so ideally you would have listed something along the lines of:
Example Nikana
Base damage: 100
Stealth Damage (Rank 30 = x8): 800
Ground Finisher (Nikana: x10): 1000
Stealth Ground Finisher (Stealth Damage x Ground Finisher): 8000
Stealth Attack Finisher (Nikana: Stealth Damage x8): 6400
Back Finisher (Nikana: Stealth Damage x8): 6400
Front Finisher (Nikana: Stealth Damage x16 (x8, x8)): 12800
I don't have every bit of information down 100% but hopefully that much helps..(I've updated the wiki info on Stealth Attack multipliers and such so they should be usable now. The only weapon's I've found not to strictly follow it's weapon class are the Kesheg and Dark Split-Sword, which do not share the multiplier's with Polearm, Heavy Blade and Dual Sword, though this can be seen on the page for finishers.)
Note Beacon not found for dojo decoration
in UI
Posted
Not only can I not place a note beacon in the dojo decorations, but I also cannot use a personal decoration note beacon in my dojo, quite disappointing as many other dojos use them.