stoybot
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Posts posted by stoybot
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I don't know about that. I went back to Counter Strike - even though I quit the competitive scene a few years ago - just because I got bored of the previous iteration of PvP. This update might just bring me back (haven't had the time to test it out yet). I'd be over the moon if we get mouse acceleration, raw mouse input, and numerical sensitivity but I'm not holding my breath.
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I'm by no means an active PvP player so I've probably not played against a whole lot of skilled people out there but these are the ones who impressed me and made me think twice about engaging them (limitted to EU players since I'm usually way too sleepy when I play in the NA servers):
FullMetal0339 (kicked my behind fair and square; great Daikyu player)
Tahem (think that was the name; guy with ridiculous aim tracking skills) - It's been a long time since I last played against him so I don't even know if he's still active.
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I have the same mouse as him, I can click up to 8 per second without aiming. That's not an issue.
Up to or average? I was talking about average speed (over a period of about 10 seconds) in my previous posts and I assume Pytha did as well. In any case, I wasn't trying to explain his particular issue - he's already stated that he has a medical condition.
I peak at 8 as well yet I can't go past 6 on average unless I let go of the mouse and only focus on clicking (completely impractical in-game). Here's what I got without holding the mouse:
In your last sprint, you clicked 50 times during 5.38 secondsYour average clicks per second was 9.30
At best you managed 11 clicks per second
I've managed to average a little over 11 but that statistic is meaningless in a shooter since I wasn't actually holding the mouse...
If I switch to a mouse with "softer" switches such as the Omron D2F-01F I can do 7+ on average easily without any tricks.
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As I said, the mouse is not a limiting factor. It is a high end Logitech gaming mouse with good quality Omron microswitches.
If I, for example, use two fingers from two hands to rapidly press the button, then I can exceed 5 clicks per second.
The link to button latency comparison of mice was just thrown in as an interesting reference and as an indicator of hardware/firmware quality. Tested mice had a range of almost 40ms difference in input latency. All logitech mice are within 3ms of the fastest.I'm not talking about the microswitch quality (or lack thereof) but its design. Just like with keyboard switches, different microswitches have different actuation force and travel time depending on how they are built:
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That's very ablest of you. I have joint problems. Others do as well, or other physical impairments.
I can't reach past 5 on my mouse, which is certainly not my limiting factor:
Trick doesn't work for me. I'm guessing this is some sort of 'warm up the muscles' exercise.
While input latency is a factor, the type of microswitch in your mouse likely has a lot more to do with your inability to go past 5. Certain click speed tricks simply don't work with some switches.
I still maintain that prevention is better than cure and the simplest way to fix this problem is to remove the incentive. Lower the fire rate to a reasonable level and normalize the damage to get the same DPS. It's simple and requires no programming. Since spread is tied to fire rate, accuracy might need some adjustments as well.
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Nighttide77 and Pythadragon, the difference between your results might be coming from the way in which you fired the weapon for your tests. Night probably fired it in short bursts while I'm assuming Pytha held down the left mouse button (which is the more unrealistic use scenario in my opinion). There's a very noticeable difference in the spread depending on how you fire the weapon.
OT: I haven't had any issues against Dera Vandal players. In fact, it's somewhat advantageous for me when I face the average DV player because I know how to move. I tried it out myself and it's pretty good. As others have pointed out, it's a newb farming cannon. You catch someone sitting still, he's dead before he even knows it, but if you go up against skilled players, the situation changes drastically.
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It's just bad design carried over from PvE and it should be fixed in both modes. The Latron is not even the worst offender (4.17 fire rate is not that high). You have weapons like the AkVasto with a fire rate of 10... Don't know about you, but I can't get more than 7 left mouse button clicks per second even without aiming. With a macro, the AkVasto used to have a ridiculous DPS and its spread was quite manageable.
Boost damage, lower fire rate and you eliminate the macro appeal while maintaining the DPS values. The only people that will notice a difference are the macro users. Oh, and please do that for both modes! I like my AkMagnus in PvE but that 8.33 RoF is just a reminder that I can never squeeze out the full potential of the weapon without resorting to scripting.
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They're not mandatory at all. I've been getting along fine without using them on a frame where I'm using all the slots for other mods.
How does making their effects innate increase build variety? I could argue that the opposite is true: the choice between those mods and other mods is what truly produces variety.
Your 3rd argument just conflicts with your second. Don't you think it would be more confusing for a new player to attempt to stagger or knock down his opponent, and have it inexplicably fail? At least with the mods, the effect exists in words somewhere that new players can read about it.
It's ridiculous to argue that "new players don't have them". That's not an argument against Anticipation or Enguard, it's an argument against all mods. Which mods does a new player have? None, by definition. It's meaningless to point out that a new player lacks mods. New players can acquire the mods. That's the entire point of the conclave syndicate and reputation.
You've been doing fine because most new players don't know how to cheese as well as experienced players, and experienced players assume their opponents are using these mods. It's herd immunity. Anticipation and Enguard came out during a period in conclave which I call the Great Jat Kittag Wars. If you played back then, you'd know why these mods became mandatory.
Before Anticipation stopped working, I rarely, if ever, died to Landslide or Slash Dash spammers. It's happened a number of times since then and there's nothing I could've done to prevent stagger-lock apart from not getting hit by the abilities - not an easy task in the hectic battlefield.
A few hours ago I played against a Jat Kittag Nekros who knocked me down with Soul Punch, and right as I was getting back up, knocked me down again with the Jat Kittag. He managed to kill me after the second time in a feat of superhuman ability - point your crosshair at a downed enemy and press the left mouse button. Yeah, that's the reason why I equip these mods before I equip anything else - at least when they used to work.
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Funny, just read a topic where some player using a pretty similar loadout (even similar looks) did exactly the same and reminded me of this guy. Personally i didn't hear the blade because i was talking to gf during match (plugged earphones but laying on the desk, so no game sound). And i got in the half of the match, so i couldn't see that guy's loadout (he ended with 0 deaths).
I guess there's a bunch of players doing it after said topic was posted, in another match I saw another guy joining late and killing by himself about 43 times to my team, with the difference I managed to kill him a few times. Hopefully DE fixes this glitch (and somehow punishes players exploiting it instead of reporting) before it gets ruining the pvp experience for, new players, vets, and those of us in the middle.
This is one of the reasons why I'm very reluctant to report game breaking bugs. Some people just pick them up and start exploiting immediately. Here's an example:
Not a big problem in PvE but imagine a Valkyr moving like that in PvP... As far as I know, DE is aware of this bug but who knows when it will be fixed. Is there a way to report stuff like this privately?
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Oh, I remember seeing your name up there. You've got some good movements.
Thanks!
where do you normally play storybot
European servers.
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I can't say I've had a single person in FFA yelling/screaming/complaining over the open VoiP. I've had people chat boxing...but not even anything extreme.
I played a few FFA rounds in US East last night. Not only was there no VoIP raging, but people were quite respectful.
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The flaps on her back open up when she's sprinting or using abilities. A little known fact: If Nova uses mprime, the flaps will remain open until the wave reaches its maximum distance.
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I picked up the Daikyu yesterday and played 5-6 hours with it. I don't know what it used to be like, but it seem to be in a pretty good spot at the moment. A few other players punched holes in me with their Daikyus and that's my reference for the damage it does.
A Volt Prime with 266.3 EHP (145 shields, 100 health, 70 armor) dies in 1 shot in the 15+ meter range. Without factoring in bonuses against shield and armored flesh, the Daikyu hits for 284.2 damage with Spring-Loaded Broadhead.
A close range shot left me with 44 health, and that was usually followed by 2 Furis shots that finished me off.
Looking at Pythadragon's EHP charts, Volt Prime is in the middle as far as EHP is concerned, and the tankiest frame is at 306.6 (Frost Prime) - not that far off. With the impact conversion mod, you should be able to one-shot him (might be possible without it too, haven't tested it). Given that the Frost should be running one of the +0.1 mobility, -EHP mods, you'll be one-shotting him for sure.
Now, if you're complaining about the close-up damage, I think it's fine the way it is. Even as a Daikyu newb, I didn't find it too hard to use it as a shotgun and it doesn't require that much skill. If it was one-shotting a lot of frames in close range before, then yeah, it was way too powerful.So you're saying that properly timing, aiming, and leading a projectile is flipping a coin to hit a target? Not to mention baiting and/or waiting for opportunity.
I was about to type up something similar. Thanks for saving me the time. Just because they're hitting with every second arrow doesn't mean they're doing it randomly.
Naqel, as for your flicking comment... I have absolutely no idea what you mean. Comes into play when you have to hit more than once. What?
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Had the same thing happen to me and then had them pm me talkin crap, feels good right?
Yeah, not fun at all. They should make these mods built-in because I can't imagine what it's like for new players who don't know about the mods or don't have the standing yet/want to rank up first. Must be rather painful to go into the knockdown/stagger frenzy that conclave has turned into.
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Never succeeded to stun someone even once, not to mention stunlocks.
How ppl do that? What range I should land?
The people who abuse these mechanics usually use frames that have easy knockdown abilities like Nekros or Banshee (not as easy as Nekros). Staggering is also rather nasty if you're up against an Atlas or Excal. Finally, there's always the Jat Kittag.
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Did they not fix this in the hotfix today?
Not in the notes so I'm guessing no. Guess I'll have to put up with angry players switching to Atlas to stunlock me to death.
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Your input on the matter isn't very relevant.
Automatic weapons reward consistently keeping you crosshair on an enemy, and closing the range between you to negate the spread.
A player better at both will reliably kill his enemy faster, even at very low differences in skill.
The less hits it takes to kill, the more prone to dumb-luck the result of an exchange becomes.Especially in a game like warframe, where situational awareness and stealth aren't really that much of a factor.Based on your comments, I'd question how much time you've spent in PvP. As I said, you don't need to keep your crosshair on the enemy, shooting in the general direction is more than enough. Autos have a somewhat decent scoped (ADS) accuracy, but against good opponents that know how to move, you can't afford to shoot them with ADS. Most fights take place in close range and closing gaps is extremely easy. Tracking is just one side of aiming skill... there's also flick shooting, where a lot of people excel.
Your luck comment is also suggesting that you've never gone up against a good Daikyu player. Those guys are probably in bed with RNGesus given how often they land shots. Must be luck, right?
In all the time I've spent in PvP, there was only one guy that was actually intimidating and skillfull with his handling of autos (which was partly due to how strong the Bratons were back then). Given his skill level, he'd probably be just as scary with hard hitting, single-shot weapons.
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Seems you ran into a premade group, where they all joined up before and then started a match. This is to keep friends together on the same team. Even outside of these matches, the game doesnt even bother to balance the teans, and if a few people leave it can even turn into 4 v 1. Generally, stay away from team matches, they're the worst. Free for all's are much better.
I'd stick to FFA if it didn't devolve into VoIP screaming fests in languages I don't understand (mostly Russian though; I've learned all the insults over all my years of Dota and CS). Any better in US servers?
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Automatics on the other hand, thanks to the granularity of their damage provide you with a TTK directly proportional to your skill, while also giving the enemy the time to counter-engage.
Automatics and skill do not belong in the same sentence as far as Warframe is concerned. The random and uncontrollable spread does not reward marksmanship and encourages spray and pray. The only advantage autos give you is an easier way to land shots because of Warframe's broken hit detection. I'll sometimes switch to a Gorgon when I'm playing on US servers or notice that I'm lagging. Takes no skill to use that weapon yet it nets me quite a lot of kills.
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My wish list is rather simple:
1. Stop increasing the TTK.
2. Stop nerfing skill-based weapons.
3. Stop giving cheap knockdowns and staggers to everything.
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I equipped this mod and my performance went way down. Some upgrade it is...
EDIT: Gave up on trying to make it work. I don't know if there's some trick to it, but it keeps canceling/recharging my shots every time I land.
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PvP is a lot harder than PvE so I think that's reasonable.
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Good guide as usual. I find myself frequently referring new players to your videos!
A few corrections and additions:
Ivara's noise arrow doesn't alert enemies and the sleep arrow has an interesting gimmick. If you sleep alerted enemies and let the sleep expire, the enemies will go back to their unalerted status (it's actually beneficial to use lower duration).
Enemies can become alerted if you kill one of their buddies in their line of sight. I've had enemies that were 10+ meters away become alerted after a stealth kill because of that.
The melee affinity bonus isn't that amazing if you can kill enemies two or more times faster with regular weapons, thus netting you the same or more affinity per minute. A Firestorm Tonkor or Lex Prime can clear rooms very quickly (the Lex allowing for LoS control, and the Tonkor nuking large groups instantly).
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and the flavor of the week award goes to dera vandal and astral twilight
I've had no issues dealing with Dera Vandal players, but on multiple occasions had to run in the opposite direction the moment I heard the sound of a glaive.
[Pvp]Daikyu Meta Is Quite Annoying
in Conclave
Posted
That's how I play with 1-shot (or close to it) weapons as well. Never track people and only flick shoot when the opportunity presents itself. Well, I keep my crosshair in their general direction but the precise shot is where I take care to aim.
As a dedicated CS AWP player for years, this kind of playstyle is in my blood... but I also think it makes sense as you can focus on movement while you're not shooting.
I do think Eureka's statement makes sense though. The Gorgons were really strong before they got their damage nerfed, and now that EHP was nerfed as well... It might be back to the spray and pray - but get your prayers answered very frequently - days.