Racercowboy
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Posts posted by Racercowboy
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With a good melee loadout you can wreck face, it just takes more effort. Although I could see why guns and powers are favored more versus melee, being that they are far, far less restricted. Not only can they reach out and touch things from a safe distance, they can do obscene amounts of damage that most (not all) melee weapons will never see and do it faster. They don't have to worry about timing to achieve combos, some of which are needed to obtain maximum damage. Melee uses up a lot of energy to achieve it's damage potential, while guns can be modded to never run out of ammo. So, why run up to someone and risk taking damage when you can just shoot them from a long distance safely and kill them?
In my opinion, it's not so much that melee is to weak, but the other options are too strong. We want three strong options, not two overpowering options and one strong option.
On another note, I am utterly shocked that no one has mentioned anything about trinity being a melee friendly frame. She has:
-The ability to keep up energy forever via energy vampire for unlimited channeling and not just for herself.
-The ability to ignored a ton of CC with link.
-The ability to shrug of a ton of damage with link and blessing.
Trinity can essentially charge in and melee away without regard to anything. I'd certainly put her as one of the top, if not the top, melee frame in the game.
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snipzorz
What's the incentive to slot and potato a gun if you've already found one who's aesthetics you like and can upgrade that gun to top tier status via tier potatos? The same issue applies. Once you've found a small stable of guns you like the looks of, there's no reason to get any others when they're no better than the guns you have now.
The fundamental issue that applies to any sidegrade system applies here: If all guns are even or can be made so, why bother acquiring more?
And that's leaving aside the difficulty inherent in a revamp of this scope in terms of balancing it all. Purely cosmetic features, on the other hand don't need to be balanced at all since they don't affect the game.
I see what you mean with, "once you find weapons you like, why use anything else" with a side grade system. But do consider this:
Lets take Braton, Grakata, and Soma for example like you did. Giving all 3 guns 15k DPS would make them imbalanced for sure, since Grakata has a very high status chance compared to the other two. But what if Braton and Grakata had something else that Soma didn't have to make up for the lack of damage? For instance, when they all are at the same rank Soma has the most DPS, but a longer reload and it's not accurate at medium to long ranges. Grakata is very proficient in statuses and has a really fast reload to make up for the lack of damage when compared to the Soma. Braton may lack in damage, but is very accurate and has very little kick versus the other two and has more damage per bullet making it a lot more ammo efficient.
As you can see, while Grakata and Braton may not have the DPS of the Soma, but they have other redeeming qualities to make them attractive choices as well aside from damage. It's just in the current scheme of things the damage output of non-favored vs favored weapons is so extreme that anything the non-favored weapons may bring is completely overshadowed by the damage difference. If the difference was much smaller we might see more weapons appear in games.
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The maths are strong with this one, let me add to this.
+1
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If we don't know the difference between potatoes and foundry, then, I don't see how we can have a discussion on anything in particular. We're not discussing anything in specific if we're not clear. We're just discussing the difference between this or that as opposed to directly discussing either one or the other. We're confusing two different things merely because they might have some similarity or connection. This is how problems become insurmountable and progress fails.
And, again, I've made it extremely clear why this topic is not about balance at all.
If you mean potatoes that up a weapon a tier as opposed to using the foundry to upgrade a weapon to the next tier, then I see what you mean. It's a different method, but does the same thing.
You can deny that your topic is not on balancing all you want, but what you are proposing to be done is fixing the balance between different weapons. The problem you outline is a product of bad game balance and you wish to fix it. This is not a bad thing at all, and I'm not disagreeing with you. I just don't know why you constantly deny that this topic is not on game balance. You want to fix game balance to give people more choices, and this is why people keep bringing up game balance in this post.
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Updated 1st post.
I do, but I didn't find a 10% speed boost to be more practical over... literally everything else.
But its not about practicality, it's about speed. D:
I must try this myself sometime, with four others with speed boost auras and a max power str volt.
Because MAXIMUM SPEED.
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sniped
While your OP may not be about balancing, the changes you propose heavily influence that aspect to the point where it cannot be ignored. If you change something to fix one problem but it causes a different one, then was the change really worth it?
Also, your idea seems like it was literally taken out of my other post up there, with a lot more paragraphs. Did you just not see it after publishing your post?
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No speed boost aura?
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I do agree with the OPs setiments, but his solution is far from what we need.
You see, we already have what the OP is proposing minus all weapons being Mk1-Braton level. It holds more issues than just imbalancing the game, it also stifles customization options. Do we really want more of this?
I'd rather see lower tier weapons upgradable via foundry so you can build them up to the power of a high tier. For instance, at masery rank 6, you can upgrade your Mk1-Braton to become as powerful as a soma. When the player continues to increase in mastery ranks, he can choose to further increase his Mk1-Braton or get a soma and level that up. The curb the costs of lower tier vs high tier, higher tiers can cost more to upgrade so it evens out in the end.
We don't need more things to take out the "modding" and throw in "optimizing". We have enough of that already.
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You cannot hide it DE. We has the proofs:
DE_Adam even mentions it in this post: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/321313-devstream-38-overview/?hl=%2Bpink+%2Bdojo
The truth has been seen. Resistance is futile.
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Dual Dark Blade.
More combos for stances with only 1-2 combos.
Have stance mods alter your air/slam/excecution/etc. attacks.
new mechanics for snipers, shotguns, or just guns in general.
"Stance" mods for guns
Pink color for dojo coloring (how could they leave out the most important color of warframe??)
Pet Skates.
interesting, well done passives for ALL warframes.
The ability to assassinate other tenno for your syndicate (this will never happen, of course, but it would be funny *strokes lanka*)
More attacks for Stalker (Why doesn't he use combos from stalking fan/reaping spiral? Why does he not have an execution move?)
More powers for Stalker
A questline for Stalker
A Stalker boss fight where he stops holding back (no, I'm not obsessed. He just needs more attention pretty badly)
EDIT: forgot two very very important wishes:
A stance mod for obex/kogake base entirely around kicks.
Linux port.
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I'm against turning the shield to health based instead of hits based. If it's health based they'll just become another measly corpus to add to our killed list.
As a user of many single shot weapons, I see no problem with bringing a melee or a secondary that can shoot and reload fast, since chances are you're bringing one anyway if you are using something like a latron. However, it would be nice if hits from single shot weapons count as more than one hit (2? 3?) to help alleviate the "Takes ten shots from a 8 forma'd max build critical Opticor, nothing happens" deal. Would be far more reasonable than turning them into another artic eximus globe.
EDIT: dat speling thogh.
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I m pretty sure one of the first released screenshots had ORANGE and PINK in it.
I want pink too. Seriously, i m very disappointed.
I remember that too. I think it was in a devstream. Time for some hunting.
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Despoil + equilibrium.
What are energy costs again?
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.... There's no pink?
WHERE IS THE PINK??
EDIT:
DE why no can we color dojo like dis:
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If only this were actually in warframe. xD
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Questions:
We have many weapons, warframes, and other equipment in this game that see almost no play time, due to either unpopularity or being outclassed in some way or another. Is anything going to be done about these things?
Progression in this game is skewered. Some of the games most powerful equipment is accessible very, very early and relatively easy. Mandatory mods must be leveled with resources we find rather than play time or level progression, which can create a lot of different paces for getting things like max serration. Will this ever be normalized so people progress at a much more regulated pace?
Will there be more quests for more lore?
Any plans for Warframe on Linux/SteamOS?
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YOUR TENNO POWERS ARE USELESS
He really meant it you know.
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Trinity.
No one dies.
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If it's the animations for peacemaker, I do agree that the original one was better. The sounds as well. I wonder why they changed the animations despite the overwhelmingly positive reception for them?
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I've spent the last several hours experimenting with warframe in linux. I never could get any shortcut to work through playonlinux--the game would only start if I went through the install process.
Going directly through wine, I was able to setup warframe with a convenient desktop shortcut. It was sort of playable, but the quality was noticably worse than when I got warframe to run through playonlinux. I'm not sure what factors contributed to the difference, but needless to say, I spent a lot of time tweaking display properties in game, as well as in the OS, with little reward.
I installed, unistalled, and reinstalled several versions of wine as well as reinstalled playonlinux several times, and also installed directx10 to see if it would be any improvement from 9 (it wasn't). For some reason, eventually playonlinux stopped being cooperative and wouldn't start the game anymore, leaving me at a "Retry" screen. Now I can only get it to run directly through wine, but the quality is rather poor. Also, all my widescreen windowed options in game vanished for some reason and won't come back. Fullscreen is unplayable since the mouse will only allow a single 360 degree rotation before locking the spin.
I haven't messed with warframe inside steam again.
I'm not really sure where to go from here, but it doesn't seem promising.
Sorry to hear about the troubles. What linux OS are you running? I'm using Ubuntu 14.04.1, not sure if this will work for you, but it worked for me.
Installing the game through steam from Playonlinux was the easiest option for me. There's a workaround for the "Could not update file: C:ProgramFilesSteamsteam":
- Go into the local files through steam (right click warframe in the library, go to properties, then local files tab, and click browse local files)
- Once in, open to the Tools folder
- You'll notice multiple launchers files in there. Delete "Launcher.exe" and rename "Launcher.exe.tmp" to "Launcher.exe"
- Close the file browser and start warframe from steam again. It should update.
If you play through steam, be sure to disable steam overlay. It messes with things for some reason.
I myself am also having that mouse issue, haven't figured out a way to fix it. For now, I just turn down the speed of my mouse in Ubuntu down really far, and turn up the sensitiviy of the mouse in warframe. It allows me to do about 3 turns before it stops, which is plenty for me.
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Those old dioramas that we miss so much would make nice loading screens without taking up a lot of resources.
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dont really see the point of this tread... unless its about enemy spawns and spawn rates....
I guess my point is in the current game there is no reason not to press 4 in 90% of the situations. Given that DE wants to do something about the 4 spam, maybe something can be done about the reasons why we 4 spam.
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Warframe has the potential to change the way the 4 key is viewed on your keyboard. It grants access to some of the most powerful (some game breaking) abilities in the game. We all know that continuously mashing this key gets old, but what really causes us to press this key so much?
After thinking for awhile, I realized something. In an attempt to figure out other methods to replace the 4 key, I found out that there really is no replacement for them. When you get surrounded by a bunch of grineer what options do you have for dealing with them?
- You can try to take them out with your weapons, which will usually be one by one even with fully decked out weapons just because of how they behave
- To counter this, you can try position in such a way where they are all in front of you and use punch through on your guns, but then they spawn behind you
- You can run, which doesn't work with every game mode. Also you get no loot and exp.
- You can use CC powers to distract them while you kill them with weapons, which can be effective depending on what frame you use but may take time in which more will spawn.
- You can press 4 and instantly nuke the whole area clearing them out.
As you can see, we don't have many tools for dealing with swarms of enemies, which are very common in this game. The 4 nukes are not only one of the few, but the best tools for dealing with the situation. What's better than pressing the delete key and watch your problem vaporize right before your eyes? I can't think of something much better, except having Nyx prime helmet and Bo prime handle drop in the midst of the destruction.
Another thing is that most of the 4 powers are Nukes. Not all of them are, but most of them serve a similar function: Lay waste to everyone along with their extended family. While it may make sense for some frames to have a nuke 4 (Nova for instance) It doesn't make as much sense on other frames (Trinity, although she doesn't have a nuke 4, just an example). Vauban's 4 is not a nuke and yet it helps a lot with the large crowds, but it does so in a Vauban-like fashion. Valkyr's 4 is the same way, as is Nekros' 4. They may not be at the same caliber of CC, but that is the point: Not every frame should excel in the same way. Valkyr's does not damage crowds all at once, but she becomes invincible (which by itself I personally disagree with, but that's for another topic) ignoring the damage from the crowd so she can take them out safely. Still good for large crowds, but different functions. We need more of this in other frames.
Wouldn't it be cool if if radial javelin(skana) strike instead of nuking everything in range was a buff that cause excalibur to spawn javelins around him, and at regular intervals while attacking. A small amount of energy is consumed each time a javelin is fired. Shooting with a gun fires javelins faster, but each hit with melee reduces the spawn time of the next javelin by a small amount. Slash dash consumes all javelins for extra hits depending on how many javelins were consumed. If activated again or at the end of the duration, all remaining javelins(skanas) will then perform a devastating attack in a small area around Excalibur, with the damage increasing for each javelin remaining. This ultimate is not a nuke, but at the same time it helps Excalibur in the time of need, providing extra firepower at the expense of energy.
Another thing is how free we are to use 4 abilities. Its very, very cost efficient to press 4 and there is absolutely nothing stopping us from doing so except energy. This I think is another issue, as it makes another why would you choose this stupid situation (the most famous one being status mods). Sure, we can choose to slash dash instead of radial javelin strike against a crowd, but let me ask: Why would you do that to yourself? You could argue that 4 slash dashes does twice the damage of one radial javelin strike, but only in a straight line aoe in front of you and over a much, much longer duration. It's certainly not worth the extra time and effort. On top of that radial javelin strike stuns, so even if they live, it buys you time to kill them, while slash dash does not. In the end, you're shooting yourself in the Orokin Reactor by choosing slash dash over radial javelin strike for dealing with crowds. If choosing to press 4 was an actual choice and not a dumb test maybe we'd see less keyboards with broken 4 keys.
Well, that is then end of my thoughts, just had to get that out. Also, for those who broke their 4 keys the delete key works just as well.
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I found both weapons to perform quite well. If you do plan to go forma crazy though Grakata will out perform the Karak in the long run by a pretty big margin. I myself preferred the grakata over the karak, simply because it has many more build options.I would at least get both and max them out for mastery reasons though.
Expensivemasteryfodderframe, Forumriotframe, Arbitrarydeveloperdecisionsframe, Nerf It All! Down To The Mk-1 Ground!
in General
Posted
Balancing weapons in the same tier can be made less of ball of spaghetti by grouping weapons together. For example:
We have Lanka, Vectis, Braton, Soma, Burston, Grakata, Vulkar, Gorgon, Sicarus, Lex, and Furis. They all need to be made viable in the same tier, and it would seem like a lot of work. However, you can make groups of characteristics:
Single shot: Has higher damage per shot, but much lower rate of fire. Overall lower DPS but very high accuracy.
Full auto: Higher DPS, but lower damage per shot. Bad accuracy but king of sustained fights
Burst: Balance of accuracy and DPS. More DPS than single shot but lower accuracy, and vice versa for full auto.
From this small list, we can, for example, take the Vectis, Lanka, Vulkar, and Lex for the single shot category. They'll have higher damage per shot than the other mentioned rifles. Now that e have that out of the way, Lets balance them to each other. They are single shots, but Vectis, Lanka, and Vulkar are all sniper rifles, while Lex is a pistol. From this we can make a sniper rifle group and a pistol group.
Sniper rifles: Devistating headshot damage, very slow rate of fire. Has scopes to zoom in for pinpoint shots.
Single shot pistols: High damage, with a lot of recoil and a small magazine size.
From this, while similar in function, we have differentiated Lex from the Sniper rifles. Shall we take this even further with the Sniper rifles?
Corpus Laser rifles: Has overheating mechanic. Guns do not consume ammo, but generate heat when fired. heat slowly dissipates when gun stops firing after a few seconds. If gun overheats, it's safety mechanism stops it from firing for a hefty amount of time until the gun is cool again.
Grineer Ballistic Weaponry: Grineer's heavy bullets have a chance to cause target to stagger from the impact. Their guns hold a lot of ammo, but heavy rounds take a bit longer to reload.
Tenno Percision Rounds: Tenno's streamlined bullets are designed cause massive damage to enemy vital locations. In order to keep weapons lighter and since tenno have good aim, they hold less rounds.
As you can see, while Lanka, Vecis and Vulkar may all be sniper rifles, they don't have to be the same and not only in stats. The Lanka can remain the strongest single shot, but charging it too much will make it overheat and then you can't shoot it for awhile. Vulkar may have the lowest damage, but it can also serve to pin down enemies with it's heavy shots. Vectis remains as a balanced, strong sniper for general purpose, but being worse than the Lanka with damage and no CC like the Vulkar.
The same thing can be done with all the other guns. By making groups and categories a lot of the stuff can be simplified while leaving room for creativity and diversifying.