K1LLZ0NE
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Posts posted by K1LLZ0NE
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... some frames just deal more no frames deals less...
lol So, a 'frame can do more damage than another, but a 'frame can't do less damage than another? What kind of logic is this? If A > B then B < A.
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Rhino deals 50% less damage? Rhino can use any weapon in the game... he deals as much damage as any other Frame. The status immunity was indeed a bug which they said they are fixing.
Knockback was a bug. I have seen nothing saying status immunity (ie disrupters/toxics) is a bug. And sure, Rhino can use any weapon, but guess what, so can every other 'frame! So it comes down to which 'frames have abilities that dish out more damage. Saying that Rhino can still murder things with a fully modded Gorgon isn't a reasonable argument. Because all the 'frames can.
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was banshee quake not nerfed becuase it did to much damge cause of that?
slash dash is just op, and not very good damge to compare to other warframes, his slash dash is even better then his ulti.
like i said before other warframes except excalibur op slash dash does not do any where near as much damge comepared to some weapons dps and spamable.
No, Sound Quake was not really "nerfed". She is now vulnerable while casting, but there are easy ways around that. And you say Slash Dash is OP and can't be compared, fine. What about Miasma? Crush? Overload? And Radial Javelin can do lots of damage as well.
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i doubt loki decoy and mind control along with other palyers skill are one hit wonders. slash dash can do more/less then weapon depending on way is used and depending on mods on weapons. and which enamy you are fighting. also sound quake is not a skill you cna spam more then you can hit with weapons. excailbur is a starting warframe if people wnat to use him instead of rihno then they would and wont be complaining about his nerf, excalibur also has a more useless skill like his super jump.(dont even know why people will use that)
Slash Dash can do LOADS of damage. Sure, if you are only using it on one guy you're not really dealing that much, but when is there ever just one guy? Even for bosses, Excalibur is my main 'frame for farming bosses because you can spam the crap out of Slash Dash and deal HUGE damage. Much more than Rhino could possibly hope to. And you can tooootally spam Sound Quake. I used Banshee for like 3 days and got bored because all you had to do was start it at the beginning of a wave and just not stop until the wave is over.
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In that case remove stealth from the game since it allows players to trivialize combat by completely avoiding it. At the same let all enemies shoot through Frost's dome since it trivializes all ranged combat. Even better, remove Chaos completely since that trivializes combat while it is active.
I could continue but I hope my point is clear: There are many abilities in Warframe that trivialize combat in one way or another. Iron Skin was just one of many with the main problem being that it could be used constantly. As people are saying, remove the ability to spam Iron Skin and it would be balanced. Heck, just putting Iron Skin as the fourth ability and moving the other two down a level should solve the problem.
Exactly. I would be okay with a move to 100 energy cost for Iron Skin, although not exactly ideal. Personally I feel that Iron Skin should be 75, due to Rhino's energy pool of only 150.
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What people don't seem to understand is that Irons Skin wasn't something like "Wave starts, go Iron Skin and don't stop until the wave is over". This is how people are treating it even though this is not and never was the case. Abilities like Sound Quake do exactly this, but no body is complaining.
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he does not deal 50% less damge your weapons supposed to do more damge then your warframe.
According to who? If DE didn't want you to do most of your damage with abilities, then you wouldn't have abilities like Slash Dash or Sound Quake. Or any other of the dozen of "I win" buttons.
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saying rhino has atleast 50% more shield then others except frost and can absorb 50% more damge to shield and that you do not have to rely on powers to win,
also i reseted now, anyway why does it matter how much i used him during this update?
DE are buffing him back up abit people should just stop complining and wait.
Rhino may be able to take 50% more damage, but deals 50% LESS damage. So, again, every other 'frame is better. If you don't have much experience using the new function, how can you justify your arguments? If I knew exactly how DE was going to buff him, I would stop trying to make my case. But if by "buff" they meant "grant him status immunity then we're done", then I will most certainly not stop.
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This is the mentality I see on most threads/posts about Rhino being the 'Main Tank' of the game and I couldn't disagree with it more.
I actually had no idea Rhino had invulnerability via Iron Skin, and now that I know he doesn't I'm interested in building one. Invulnerability makes for a very boring tanking mechanic and, if I may be so bold, is flawed tanking design. A lot of people complain that Trinity still has access to invulnerability but from the sounds of it that frame has to set up a combo and is still subject to knockdowns/staggers/disruption (correct me if I'm wrong). There is energy management involved as well as situational awareness. If DE decides to tweak that as well then good on them but there is at least some degree of work involved here.
NOBODY should have access to a full on herp-a-derp mode button that trivializes all combat mechanics.
NO tank should be able to just run out into the fray and never go down. Yes, you are a tank and your job is to soak up damage and create openings for your team but eventually, under sustained fire, you WILL go down. This is why there are four of you in a cell. You have teammates supporting you with their own defensive and offensive moves and if it still gets too hot then pull out, regroup for a few seconds, then charge back in and do it all over again.
I do hope they buff his other abilities so the character is still fun to play (according to all these posts), but I honestly hope invulnerability stays out of the picture. It just sounds like a lot of people liked to pick Rhino because they could hit a button, do whatever the hell they wanted, and call it teamwork. Now you'll have to play smart and call it teamwork. Not exactly seeing the problem here.
You admit to not actually using him, so please don't crowd the thread.
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used him alot before update and never used iron skin except boss fights, and after update still used him but dint use iron skin on boss but used his rush to damge and get behind and hide to regen my shields he has the highest sheild capacity ingame along with frost 450 at level 30 + mods and you get 2.43k shield. ofcourse you would of invested some time in getting cores to level up mod but not long for me since update 7 replaced all my mods with cores. and mods were easy to get for first few week after update.
So what you are saying is that you used Rhino to rush in and do damage before your shields ran out then you took cover? Pretty sure just about every other 'frame in the game can do that better now. Just saying.
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DE are already working on changing him completely unerfing him is stupid he was op all there is to it and needed nerfing but was nerfed to much they are working on fixing it,
How often have you used Rhino yourself? And how much have you used him after the update?
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Well, Trinity doesn't reallty have any CC/damaging abilities.
And Rhino does?
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Decoy doesn't grant invincibility.
Moult doesn't grant invincibility.
Invisibility and smoke screen can be hit with ancient, no stun/toxic immunity.
Link requires target with large health pool to be effective or it'll jump around other targets. I think it's next on the nerf line.
Snow globe is stationary and you still got stun through it. I think i got killed with Bombardier once inside it.
Blessing grant short immunity but it's more healing than tanking.
Don't have Vauban so I don't know.
Most AOE ultimates are another topics, not related to this one. Moreover, most of them lose effectiveness at higher level. You certainly can't kill everything with crush/overload/avalanche/miasma at higher levels. Bladestrom and Radial javelin fares better in this point.
in·vin·ci·ble
/inˈvinsəbəl/AdjectiveToo powerful to be defeated or overcome
in·vul·ner·a·ble/inˈvəlnərəbəl/AdjectiveImpossible to harm or damage.
Moult and Decoy stop you from taking damage. Invisibility and Smoke Screen stop you from taking damage. Link stops you from taking damage. Snow Globe stops you from taking damage. Blessing stops you from taking damage. Bastille stops you from taking damage. AOE killing everything stops you from taking damage.
I'm sorry, but yes, all of these abilities can be used to "grant you invulnerability".
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If you're going to discuss how 100% damage reduction for 10 seconds with toxic/stun/disruptor resistance isn't OP then make your case. I'll listen.
Okay, Rhino has some of the least damaging abilities in the game coupled with the worst speed in the game. Also, his CC is sub-par and can be matched by using any Heavy Melee jump attack. Also, high defensive stats (health, shield, and armor) don't do squat at higher levels. What makes a "tank" (at least in this game) comes down to abilities. Not stats. If warframe A has an ability that allows for better damage reduction than warframe B, then warframe A is the better tank. Rhino is supposed to be THE tank frame. He is the ONLY rank locked frame, and the most expensive. ALL of this clearly proves how Rhino with (old) Iron Skin was not OP.
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Decoy, Moult, "Kill everything in the room (most the ultimates)," Invisibility, Smoke Bomb, Link, Electric Shield (uni-directional, not as OP), Snow Globe, Blessing (to an extent), Bastille, probably more I can't think of.
Took the words right out of my mouth.
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exactly. atleast excal has a nice CC (radial blind) AND a high damage skill (radial jav/slash dash)
And MUCH better maneuverability.
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You're an idiot. 5~7.5 seconds is barely enough to get in 3 heavy weapon swings at MOST, provided you have both Reflex Coil and Fury on.
And yes, he does fine even on Pluto after post patch. But he now PLAYS LIKE A GIMPED EXALIBUR.
Again, I might as well play Excalibur.
More like WORSE than a gimped Excalibur.
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If you're going to discuss about returning of old invulnerability. I think it's a lost cause. Apart from defense mission which should be a challenge mode, damage immunity is extremely OP in regular mission. Even when you consider Pluto missions, it's still OP compared to other powers of other frames.
The main feature of Iron skin was special effect immunity, imo. Total damage invulnerability is simply too much and takes away a lot of strategic play from Rhino. I played him before I reset on Sedna and Pluto, he did fine with 80%DR as long as you know what is ahead of you. It's more brain, less reflex at this point. More rediretion, a lot more.
Alternatives are lessen invulnerability by 1/4-1/2 which means he will have only 5-7.5 second for Iron skin which is barely enough for higher defense with mobs at lv60+. You may be able to kill a few of them before it expires.
Its been said a lot, but I will say it again. If its invulnerability that is the problem, then every other frame has similar abilities. And you say that you have to maneuver with Rhino more now, which may not be such a big problem, except for his garbage maneuverability.
When you look at Iron Skin by itself, and say "Wow, 100% damage invulnerability!? WTF? OP!" then sure, looking at a single aspect of any frame will make it look OP. The fact is that Rhino WAS a balanced frame. Garbage speed, and garbage damage along with (old)Iron Skin makes Rhino perfectly balanced.
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As long as DE is willing to give stun/toxic/disruptor resistance back to iron skin, it'll be fine. 80% DR is quite plenty imo. Overheat has higher reduction without resistance to special effect seems like a good balance to me.
Where have you been playing that 80% DR is enough? It is my experience that 80% DR is not enough on higher levels. Not to actually get in the fight for any real damage.
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It's all that needs to be done ffs. Focus would give him 100% reduc. Fix his stagger inability and you have a proper tank. You have to build into it, but that's what you should have to do.
First, they haven't said WHAT they will change. That was the point of my post. I feel you missed that. Also, Focus DOES NOT affect Iron Skin. Just saying.
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If you dont agree with someone, or think they are a troll, either ignore or report that post/person to the moderators.
There is no "point" in namecalling and stuff like that. It just removes the focus from what (i hope) we are all here for, giving feedback to DE.
I did this as soon as I realized he was trolling. At first I stopped arguing with him. Then he moved on to someone else. Then I made a post explaining to others what he was doing. Then the new thread started and I made the mistake of replying to another one of his posts. He trolled some more, and I made my final post.
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Actually, that argument might be over, because it never started...
If its a debate on a topic you want, please do give a "reason" for keeping iron skin as it was.
saying "i want!" has never been a part of a debate.
There have been many suggestions made. Ranging from "Keep it the way it was or else!" to "I get that it was OP but you went a little to far. Please do __________________ to fix it." I have made many such posts and have tried to debate the credibility of my suggestions as well as others. I hope you did not just go to the last page of this thread, read one or two comments, and then post your own. I think we, those who are unhappy with this update, have done a fine job of expressing our thoughts and opinions.
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You do know that any credibility that you might be trying to aim for with your posts go out the window (screaming bloody murder btw) when you start on the name calling.
Why not just stick to the facts and opinions.
You know, have a meaningfull exchange of opinions ...
Ummmm, do you mean calling the Troll a Troll? Sorry if I offended you? But he is obviously a Troll. Any an all posts he has made prove this. Sorry.
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Yes, thats the answer which directly deals with the question of why this was done.
If you dont believe their words.... that's another matter entirely but this is what we have from them so far.
You do realize that that "quote" didn't actually come from Scott, right? It was just something Rebecca said while being sarcastic. Last thing I'm gonna say. Trolls really just need to stfu and gtfo.
Update 7.11.0: Vauban!
in PC Update Notes
Posted · Edited by K1LLZ0NE
Rhino has NO offensive capabilities (beyond his weapons). And Nyx and Loki both have ways of taking no damage for a duration. And Loki can even deal MORE damage while taking no damage.