K1LLZ0NE
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Posts posted by K1LLZ0NE
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As has been noted, the damage cap isn't going to scale well. Maybe base it on the number of enemies that iron skin agros with an increased amount added per enemy for each rank?
That seems too complicated. I'm sure they want to find a simple fix that will make everyone "happy".
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I know it could still mean they could just change the cost/duration/aggro mechanic, but let's look at what was the cause of the change in the first place. It was justified with (I'm not finding the exact quote) "the designer felt the need to change it", so what was Iron Skin prior 7.11? An invulnerability on a time limit.
That's why I think they don't want (for whatever reasoning) to go back to that version when I read "At this point a complete revert to the original power is not planned":
But I sure can be wrong as hell with my assumption
I would just really like to know what they are thinking. Is it the invulnerability? Is it how long it lasts? Is it that it can be spammed? We do not have enough information to really do more than just tell them if we like the new change.
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it really depends on how IS will work though. If you look in DERebecca's post history she stated in another Thread, let me quote:
"Short term goal: Get a fixed version of Iron Skin. At this point a complete revert to the original power is not planned."
I assume that means the invulnerability with time limit (since thats what the designers felt was not right about it, it seems at least), and I really don't think the aggro mechanic would work with anything other than the time limited Invul IS OR if the damage cap/DR scales up into late game and does NOT contain fixed numbers and rather percentages. As always, thats just my opinion
Edit: Typo
I completely agree that an aggro with anything but full invulnerability for a set time, would be very bad. However, just because they say they will not revert it to it's original power doesn't mean they will not go back to a modified version of the original. Meaning increase cost or adding an aggro.
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but what if you are the only one left ? or just playing with a friend together? or everybody ran off, rushed and is out of reach to help the fallen team-member (not that rare in public games) ?
The more I think about it and read different opiniens, the more I think, like others, the aggro mechanic should be implemented in another ability to give diversity and options to the player
Okay, even if this happened, and it was just you and one teammate. If he gets downed you can still run to him, activate Iron Skin, rez him, then all the bad guys will be attacking you, and your teammate can find cover, or stick it out with you. No matter how you look at it, a taunt effect can only be good. Unless you are not 100% invulnerable. Then it is certainly a bad idea.
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...And if you're using IS to revive a teammate, probably the last thing you want is every explosive projectile, grineer roller, poison/disruption ancient, etc heading directly toward you....
But think of it this way. If one of your teammates goes down you can run a little ways away and use Iron Skin (with a taunt) and all the baddies will focus on you, leaving your other teammates to rez the downed one. This would be a much better way of rezing than the old way.
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What I feel they should do is move (original)Iron Skin to his ultimate, and give it a taunt effect. That's it. Now, if they want to work on the other skills, great. Personally I think Radial Blast + Iron Skin (with a taunt) would be devastating, and super fun to play with. And for those asking for an increase to the cost AND a decrease to the duration, we're talking about 15 seconds here. Considering Rhino's energy pool is only 150, boosting the cost of Iron Skin to 100 would stop it from being spammed. Don't forget that Rhino is mostly dependent on his weapons to do his damage. In 15 seconds its not like you can clear an entire room of mobs.
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I have never used Steel Fiber. Armor values only affect health, which means they are useless. Health cannot be recovered (other than Trinity and the odd Red sphere) so you would be better of investing in shields or abilities.
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I will be okay with the new Iron Skin as long as it is affected by armour value.
So with 60% damage mitigation (default) Iron Skin will actually take 2,000 damage before falling apart. This gives Steel Fibre an actual use! And requires proper modding to be made truly effective.
The problem with relying on mods to make the ability "truly effective" is that Rhino already requires lots of mods to help with his weak points. One good example is his speed. I can't go into a game without putting at least Rush on him. There's just no way. And you hardly even see a difference until you upgrade Rush a good ways.
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150*2.5=375 power, 15*1.3=19.5 seconds, 50/1.3=39 energy cost(game rounded up)
can be used 9 times before energy reaches 24 lasting 175.5 seconds. This does not include using energy siphon, if did he would:
regenerate 87 energy (solo) giving him 111 energy allowing 2 more use.
can be used 11 time then being left with 33 energy with 214.5 seconds use (not including energy got back for the extra 39 seconds which would allow another 19-20 energy gain)
people thats clever and even if they dont have good reaction would get atleast 3min+ of invul with this ability and solo ever stage (cant say i not done it during closed beta soloed pluto)
dont forget he can regenrate his shield during hsi ability if people combine this ability with shield they could last over 5 min
so over powered killzone would you realy go so far to try make your rhino the most over powered warframe -.-
The problem with this logic is that Irons Skin deals no direct damage. I get that Iron Skin could be abused, but having maxed out energy mods on a maxed out frame with 4 energy siphons is NOT a fair comparison. Under these circumstances any frame can be OP. I get that Iron Skin needed a little work. But changing the nature of the ability is not the way to go. Just increase the cost. That's all that is needed.
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While it is true that Rhino is not technically "useless", there is absolutely no reason to use him. If you want 'frame that does damage, use somebody else. If you want a 'frame that can take lots of damage, use somebody else. There is nothing that Rhino excels at. Not anymore.
Edit: Also, the argument that with maxed power mods and everyone using energy siphon isn't really valid. Under these conditions any skill can be spammed and considered OP. The main difference with Iron Skin is that it deals no direct damage.
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I find myself wondering if thats before or after his Armor. Because with a Maxed out Steel Fiber, he has 110% of his base of 150. If damage is reduced that much before it even hits his health, wouldn't 800 damage still be pretty seriously tanky? My Rhino still has 2 days before its finished, so im no expert, but that still seems like a lot, even on Pluto.
That 800 is a flat rate. Meaning nothing modifies it (armor value and mods do nothing). And as for that being a lot of damage, not if you really think about. Now that it aggros, you can have an entire room full of enemies hitting you with crazy damage. Just hop on pluto with 800 shields and see how long it takes for them to get depleted. Like 5 seconds. If you are going up against the base mobs. And not higher waves of defense missions.
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Many people seem to have the assumption that PvE games do not require balance. That is an incorrect assumption for various reasons. A class or ability which is deemed underpowered by the majority of players will see less use than ones which are deemed overpowered, thus creating more monotony. It does not matter whether a game is PvE or PvP. Players will always seek to be the best, because that is human nature.
Consider Frost. He is used in almost all high-level defense farming missions, because he is optimal. This creates monotony, becuase the strategy never changes. A good dev team should try to make every class (and multiple play-styles) equally optimal, but in different ways (I never said it was easy).
The second thing one must understand is that buffs and nerfs are both relative. Buffing all but one class will result in a net nerf to the unbuffed class. The method is different, but the outcome is the same. No game system exists in a vacuum.
While it is true that a PvE game needs balance, only things that break the game need to be nerfed. At least while there are more important bugs/features to work on. Iron Skin was not so OP that it broke the game. Not even close. Rhino was the first 'frame I got. I hardly knew anything about it. I just loved the way he looked. And after using him a lot, I really enjoyed it. However, I decided I wanted to try new things, and even thought that other 'frames could do some of the things Rhino did, but better. So I branched out with Frost. He was also super fun to play and again I eventually felt I wanted to branch out. So I got Ash, Volt etc etc. Rhino was never so OP that all anyone wanted to do was play him.
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stupid to go back to way it was, reason he was changed because the way he was, was overpowered, he just need a rework.
What is considered to be "overpowered" is subjective. It would help if the devs told us why they think it is overpowered. Then we might be able to get somewhere. And please don't give me a hundred reasons you think it was OP. That is not the point of this post.
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I would also like a detailed reason as to why they feel the need to change Iron Skin. What specifically are they looking for? We can not hope to come to a good conclusion if we don't know what is wrong.
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I would say it is JUST a damage cap. Otherwise they would have specified.
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I see a lot of people would prefer some sort of % damage reduction over flat out invulnerability for a set amount of damage, like this new fix. However, the problem with % damage reduction is that even at 90% DR, enemies can still kill you suuuuper fast. Why? Because you take a lot of damage QUICKLY. Sure, it might be nice only taking 10 damage, but 10 damage x20 enemies hitting you every second is 200 damage a second. You will be shredded in no time.
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I don't get the reason for removing the invincibility from Banshee's ultimate when almost every other warframes ultimate has them invulnerable during it. I understand it needed a nerf to damage, but to remove a property that so many other 4's have is just dumb. It's supposed to be super strong and overpowered, it's her ultimate.
Granted, I think the skill is still great regardless.
I'm pretty sure (don't quote me on this) that all the ults have had their invulnerability taken away. Just what I have heard. Haven't tested it myself.
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No, dude, the point isnt Focus the point is the positioning of the Radial Blast when cast.
A Rank 4 Focus cast at melee range took maybe 20% damage at most but if you cast it at a longer range the Radial Blast, apparently, hit for it's actual damage.
So, i dont know if this is a bug or intended but to bring out the most damage from Radial Blast you actually have to activate it at a distance.
Running up to melee range doesnt seem to be the way to use it.
I tested this as well.
A base Scindo, meaning no damaging mods, did barely anything and at most maybe reaching 15% if actually smack some one with the jump.
I get what you're saying. And it has to be a bug. Radial Blast (I believe) is supposed to be a close range AoE. Not some weird combination of melee and ranged.
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I know what you mean, mate. The damage reduction wouldn't have to be 100% anyway. My main point is that Iron Skin-ish ability would be more suited as a Lvl 3/4 Ability rather than 2.
The trade off for invulnerability would be that every enemy in vicinity would start attacking you. Which would put you into a serious position when eventually the power runs out and everybody is onto you. I meant it as a boost when all teammates could focus fire into one area, making the ability more as a team boost, rather than an individual one.
My only problem with this statement is that without 100% damage reduction, and a taunt on all the enemies, would be get slaughtered. It's already bad enough without having absolutely every enemy in the room on you.
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Here's an idea for Rhino:
-snip-
While I agree that an aggro effect would be amazing, the problem is that some just don't like the idea of "invulnerability".
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It doesn't matter when it would be for me. I didn't want any of the gear I bought for TESTING purposes. I was buying things in a closed/open beta, just to test them. A lot of those things have come to be nerfed or changed quite a bit. I tested them some more. I do not want any of them. The reset was not optional for me, because I didn't want any of those things and it was well over a hundred bucks or more worth of junk.
I've beta tested MMOs for years now, and not once have I gone into one that didn't have a global reset after going public. Like a lot of things, that is slowly starting to change as the word beta loses it's meaning for most developers.
I totally get that. When I heard there was going to be an optional reset I bought everything I could to test and see what I like. I'm going to wait a little longer until I reset but I eventually will. I'm just confused about why you are upset I guess. As long as they offer a reset you cares when it was offered?
they only gave 100plat thats small compared to the atleast 330 you get for first founder package. im saying they they should have allowed optional reset to be made sooner at same time as update 7.0 or during open beta weekend
I can understand this as well, but again, as long as you get the option to reset I don't see the problem :P
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Indeed they are! =)
I know I used 2 extreme examples but I was just trying to get a point across. Sure, Iron Skin lasts a lot longer than any other ult. But that is because of the nature of the ability. It doesn't deal massive amounts of damage. It protects from massive amounts of damage. The way I see it powers that deal large amounts of damage are somewhat polar opposites of Iron Skin. Does this mean it shouldn't be in the game? No. This just better emphasizes why it is needed.
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they should have given us a better time then just end of beta it was not clear enough, some people believed it was end of closed beta like other games normaly would sadly it was not, lots of players used there plat to buy things to test out and build a guide/wikia out of it.
They said that they were giving plat specifically because they didn't want to force a reset on everybody.
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I don't think the rank locked warframe part should be taken in consideration for this, but I still think that godmode is too much. And with such ease to use it and go through everything, and be able to use it again very soon after, too. Like in my other post, 95% damage or something of the kind would make it more fitting. Something that makes him STILL take damage, but low.
Okay, well think of it this way. In most games (no matter what kind) higher level gear is better than lower level gear. Why can the same not be true about Warframe? Look at the Hek and the Gorgon. Both are in the top of their fields as damage dealers. The Gorgon even has the highest DPS in the game!
Also, what about other similar abilities? Is it just Rhino's Iron Skin or do you want all abilities that allow for some kind of "immunity" to damage to be nerfed?
Update 7.11.0: Vauban!
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