OrionTCB
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I have a lot to say on this topic. It's gonna be a long read for the willing. There might be a lot of typos, sorry about that.
On 2024-04-26 at 6:00 PM, [DE]Sam said:Streamlining Enemy Health
So, let’s simplify the system: Health, Armor, and Shields. All Flesh types become Health, Alloy or Ferrite becomes just Armor, and the difference between Protoshields fold into Shields.
Instead of 13 Enemy Health types to juggle, we can work with 3 to better develop Faction Resistances and Weaknesses and create a more approachable system.
Alright... It's great and all, but it creates weird cases ? I'll get more into it below.
On 2024-04-26 at 6:00 PM, [DE]Sam said:The Star Chart
So, Resistances then become more about the Faction. We can then recommend appropriate per-Faction Resistances which will then universally affect that specific Enemy group.
As such, The Star Chart will show recommended Faction Resistances per planet. Aligned with the present Faction, there will be listed Weaknesses and Resistances to communicate the recommended options for Damage against any specific Faction or location.
If multiple Factions exist on a planet, such as the Murmur or Infested on Deimos, then those separate Factions will have their own Resistances and Weaknesses, which will be communicated.
And regardless of specialized Resistances, Status Effects will continue to work the same, even if the Enemy is resistant to that Damage Type. If enemies are present with Shields, but the node dictates resistance to Magnetic damage, the Status Effect will still hinder the effectiveness of Shields themselves.
As well, Damage Resistances won’t change just because an Enemy’s Armor or Shields are removed; since they’re set per Faction, those Weaknesses (or Resistances) will continue to affect whatever Health Type they have equally.
Besides the nice visual QoL to showcase weaknesses and resistances, this "streamlining" feels like it doesn't really change anything ?
It's like renaming what already exists more than anything. Like, for Health types, Grineers have "Cloned Flesh", Corpus have "Flesh", Infested have, well, "Infested," etc. and basically, all will be renamed (streamlined) to "Health", but still will be per-Faction, so it actually will be "Grineer Health", "Corpus Health" and "Infested Health".
One problem rises, Grineer also have "Machinery", Corpus have "Robotic", etc. They are used by machine-type enemies of their respective faction, but if they are streamlined to "Health", wouldn't it be weird ? With the current system, akin to a RPG, a Grineer Soldier is greatly affected by Viral (+75%), but a Roller is resistant to it (-25%), which is logic. So what about the new "Grineer Health" ? I don't get it, maybe it's a little more deep than that, but if it's gonna be a combination of both, wouldn't Viral be nerfed against Grineers altogether ? It'll become +75% + -25% = +50%.
On 2024-04-26 at 6:00 PM, [DE]Sam said:Resistance Variance
Within a Faction, the Status Type Resistances and Weaknesses can vary based on Location. For example, regular Grineer may have different Resistances and Weaknesses than Kuva Grineer.
This may not always be needed, but we believe it can add some flavour and variety!
That's nice, BUT, isn't this just gonna worsen what already is on live ? Right now, we have builds for "Grineers & Corrupted" (A), "Corpus" (B) and the minority (like "Murmur", "Deimos", etc.) (C) which I feel like is already enough (and the max number of build slot per weapon/frame).
Honestly, I don't want another "Deimos build", which is what you're diving into, eg: "Kuva Grineer", "Amalgam Corpus", "Venus Corpus", "Earth Grineer", "Outter Deimos Infested", "Derelict Infested", and so on. I like the idea, really, I like when things are (too) complex, but since you're supposedly making these changes for new players, it's weird ?
Then again, I might be looking way too far, maybe a basic Grineer will have +75% viral and a Kuva Grineer will have +50% and that's about it, nothing more/less.
On 2024-04-26 at 6:00 PM, [DE]Sam said:New Armor Adjustments
Armor is king, most applicably on Grineer.So, it’s no secret that Grineer Armor scales their EHP to often crazy numbers—making Armor Strip that much more important.
And without Armor Strip, players rely on Viral/Slash and Heat to work around this, as Corrosive struggles to reduce Damage Reduction to a level that feels useful to players (at 10 Corrosive stacks, the Heavy Gunner retains 87% of their Damage Reduction).
At certain levels, it's not that "Armor Strip is that much more important", it's MANDATORY. You said it yourselves, Corrosive becomes useless so you have to bring a percentage-based max armor strip ability (Pillage, Tharros Strike, etc.) or a weapon (Latron Incarnon, Shattering Impact melee mod, etc.) to do its job. To make Corrosive effective, you have to bring 2 emerald shards which do not fit well on all builds/frames, like I'm not gonna have 2 emerald on Ember.
Viral/Slash is king 'cause they ignore armor, simple. Why should I bother with a grineer at 97% DR (88% with Corrosive) when I can simply bleed it through its armor ? This also applies to Corpus, why bring Magnetic when Toxin exists, but whatever.
On 2024-04-26 at 6:00 PM, [DE]Sam said:To address this issue, we aim to do the following:
- Enemy Armor will cap out at a certain percentage to give Corrosive Armor-reducing stacks more of an active impact.
Alright.
On 2024-04-26 at 6:00 PM, [DE]Sam said:The Armor scaling curve will aim to be a bit more spread out, as opposed to being bottom-heavy. Partial strip from the top end will allow for more consistent damage gains, as opposed to needing to have a total Armor Strip.
The problem is that the current curve is non-linear, that's why Corrosive just dies at some point. At 100 armor we have 25%, at 200 = 40%, 300 = 50% and so on until it reaches the "threshold". At 1000 we have ~77%, 2000 = ~87%, 3000 = ~91% and at 10000 = ~97%. An Exo Gokstad Officier (only RJ) has +1M armor at level cap which is 99.97% DR, that's a ×3339 damage loss. Yikes.
The current curve makes it so that too much armor isn't necessary on frames. Why bother going above 300 (50% DR) ? It's too hard to reach the next "good threshold".
Enemies on the other hand can stack up armor to +10k and it'll never be bad. Here rises the Corrosive problem, it does wonders on non-SP missions, but at some point, like on SP Zariman, a Kuva Elite Lancer (from normal path) goes from 836 armor (~74% DR) to 8640 armor (~97% DR) (maths may be a little off) and with 10 stacks of Cor, it goes down to 167 (~36%) and 1728 (~85%)... Yeah, not that great for SP. The gap between ~97% DR and ~85% DR is still huge, but it's a ~×10 damage loss after Cor. Yeah, Viral/Slash is god.
Then, what about a linear curve ? Like every 10 points of armor is 1% DR ? At 100 = 10%, 300 = 30%, etc. until reaching the newly added cap of 90% (?) at 900. Could be even 100 points = 1% DR for more precision ; 1 point would be 0.01% which is good enough. This curve should also apply to Warframes.
Obviously, a linear curve would require to change every single armor value of every single mob in the game to mimic the past DR value. If a mob had 300 armor (50% DR), it would go up to 500 (50% DR), if one had 10k armor (too much% DR), it would be capped to 900 (90% DR), etc. Scaling will also be affected, but with a max cap, it doesn't matter much anyway.
Now, Corrosive will always be good ! A Grineer had 500 armor ? goes down to 100 (from 50% to 10%), it had 900 armor ? goes down to 180 (from 90% to 18%). Viral/Slash will obviously still be king, but not as much a now, you won't have to build for viral/slash.
Note : a simplier way would be to make Corrosive affect the base armor instead of total armor, much like Shattering Impact.
On 2024-04-26 at 6:00 PM, [DE]Sam said:Have a minimum threshold of any Enemy Armor. No armor-accessing Enemy will have below a certain minimum, Armor shouldn’t feel unimpactful.
Alright. Following what I already wrote, with a linear curve, you could implement a per-Faction/Planet minimum armor. I'll be ignoring Corpus and normal Infested of course.
On earth, a Grineer might have a min. cap of 200 armor (20% DR), but on the Kuva Forteress, it could go up to 300 or 400 (30% and 40%).
On 2024-04-26 at 6:00 PM, [DE]Sam said:Health scaling of Grineer enemies will be re-aligned, to an extent, to help compensate for the loss in Damage Reduction and to try and maintain a similar time-to-kill feel.
Alright.
On 2024-04-26 at 6:00 PM, [DE]Sam said:New Shield Adjustments
The Grineer are tankier by design, but the Corpus try to make the difference through their Shields. However, Corpus Effective Hit Points is significantly lower, making them often trivial to deal with.Are you seriously comparing Grineer EHP which scales off of a multiplier and Corpus EHP which is basically 2 health bars ?
Also, high level Corpus have the exact same problem as high level Grineer, at some point, you won't do s to shields unless you play a specific build or, you guessed it, use a shield stripping ability !
On 2024-04-26 at 6:00 PM, [DE]Sam said:Our goal is to reduce the discrepancy between Grineer and Corpus time-to-kill (TTK) through their Shields by making Corpus Shields a bit more challenging and interesting to fight.
Here, our goal is to provide some scaling factors to Shield Regeneration and Delay, designed to create a more perceivable benefit of affecting Status Effects, particularly at a higher level.
Such scaling factors may look like:
- Enemy Shields having a shorter Regeneration Delay when depleted.
- Enemy Shields having a shorter Regeneration Delay when hit.
- Enemy Shields Regenerating faster.
Players early in the game and at lower levels in general will still be able to power through Shields, as the factoring, like other stats, will be less noticeable. However, the impact of Status Effects like Magnetic will be much more perceivable at higher levels.
Cool, but pointless. None likes to fight against Corpus, y'know, 'cause of their shield and nullifier, all that (I'd say I am a caster more than a shooter, so it bothers me the most). Also Toxin exists, it ignores shields, so who gives a f about Magnetic ? But more on that later.
On 2024-04-26 at 6:00 PM, [DE]Sam said:Blast
The blast is blasting! More to come! Our concepts and ideas with Blast are rapidly changing; no specifics will be made as of right now while we continue to work on the Status!As a damage type, it's really bad, so give it some love.
As for the status effect, stop running away from the inevitable, just make Blast go Boom, do AOE damage, that's all we want, anything else will be utter s, and you know it. Look at its state right now, it does literally nothing, even Impact has a greater impact (heh) ; opening to finisher was a great idea.
I have some suggestions. I am by no mean a game designer, but I did play the game for thousands of hours and my personal knowledge of RPG mechanics should back me up (I'm not saying I know it all or know the game better than the devs, I am but a mere mortal).
1) Fuse / Ticking bomb : Blast does AOE damage at max stacks or when duration ends.
- The max number of stack would be either 5 or 10.
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Stacks are removed upon explosion and apply a hidden secondary status which applies the same effect as before : accuracy reduction. Counts for CO.
- This status is applied to the main target and all enemies around.
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Base damage would be based off the weapon/ability damage (like any other damage dealing status). Each stack adds damage to the AOE damage. Could be either:
- A raw gain, like +100 per stack (objectively bad),
- A % of damage dealt (the instance which added the stack),
- Another % of the total weapon/ability damage.
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Has a base radius of 3m. Each stack adds either .6m (if 5 max stacks) or .3m (if 10) up to a cap of 6m. Pretty much like Gas.
- Since it's a one-time boom, base radius could be increased to 5m and increases up to 10m at max stacks. 10m is the same radius as the Concealed Explosives mod.
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Explosion should knock down light enemies and stun heavier ones.
- Or knockdown everyone, no matter the "weight".
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DOES NOT RAGDOLL. I REPEAT. IT. DOES. NOT. RAGDOLL.
- Ragdoll is one the bane of the game, it's fun but it's also kinda bad. Look at poor Atlas, unable to punch ragdolled enemies for who knows why.
2) *Click* : Blast starts as inactive, then get primed on hit and does AOE damage. Has no stack.
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When an enemy gets a new Blast status, it starts as inactive and does nothing (counts for CO).
- The next time the enemy is hit (by anything), the status gets primed and explodes.
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On explosion, enemies around (not the main one) get a new inactive Blast status.
- There should be an internal cooldown (0.2s) to avoid recursive explosion. A primes B, B primes C but not A, C primes A but not B, etc.
- The cycle repeats itself.
- Like 1) it should add the accuracy reduction status to self and enemies hit by the explosion.
- Damage would be either based on the source which added the status or the one that primed it.
- Radius would be either always at 5m or scale with damage. From 100 to 1000. ≤100 = 3m, from 101 to 999 scales up to ~6m and ≥1000 = 6m.
3) Qorvex : Blast does AOE damage everytime a stack is added. No stack limit, but effects cap out at 10 ?
- Each stack has an independant duration (like Bleed).
- Like 1) it should add the accuracy reduction status to self and enemies hit by the explosion.
- Damage would be based on the source which added the status. Damage increases for each stack. This would be lowest of the 3.
- Radius starts at 2.5m and rises to 5m at 10 stacks.
On 2024-04-26 at 6:00 PM, [DE]Sam said:Cold
Our goal with Cold is to emphasize the effectiveness of the fantasy of slowing and freezing your enemies.Cold now has a new effect where you freeze your enemies upon reaching the new Cold stack maximum.
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Cold has a new stack cap!
- Freezes enemies for a few seconds after inflicting full Cold stacks.
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While Frozen, Critical Damage is greatly increased.
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How do Frozen enemies deal with additional damage?
- Do not regenerate Shields.
- Weapons and Warframes that deal Cold will be updated to reflect this new behaviour.
- Freeze may synergize with other Status Effects, such as Bleed.
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How do Frozen enemies deal with additional damage?
- VIP enemies (Acolytes, Bosses, etc.) cannot be completely frozen; they’ll also be immune to the frozen-inflicted Critical Damage increase, naturally.
F'in finally ! A whole decade of waiting !
I do hope that freezed enemies are stunned for the whole duration, otherwise it's pointless. Also, is there an internal cooldown to freeze ? Or as long you inflict cold status it stays frozen ?
As a bonus to make it even better:
- Freeze could do a % damage based on current/max enemy health when proc'd (so only once per freeze).
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Freeze could also weaken shields. Since Cold is a part of Magnetic, it's only natural. It is also more accessible than Magnetic and less Corpus-focused.
- Shields take 33% of their current value as raw damage.
- Applies a Magnetic-like shield damage amplification effect but only +50% (whereas Magnetic starts at +100%).
On 2024-04-26 at 6:00 PM, [DE]Sam said:Gas
Gas often lacks effective readability, making it difficult to distinguish its presence from the Enemy or yourself. It’s important to introduce enhanced visuals for the Gas Status so its presence is noticeably present.Some ideas we had were to, which are very prone to change:
- Extends the range of the Gas Cloud FX based on the range of the Status (caps at 6m at 10 stacks).
- Additional FX added to affected enemies to communicate Status activity.
- Gas FX having billowy volume to better present presence.
- Gas FX having additional floating particles around the smoke.
- Enemy Gas FX having additional red coloring to communicate threat to player.
I'm not that much of a Gas user, but everytime I see a Gas build it's used for the meme effect ?
Idk much about it, but it was fun when it did Toxin damage instead of Gas damage.
On 2024-04-26 at 6:00 PM, [DE]Sam said:Magnetic
While Magnetic won’t be getting dramatic changes, our goal is to make the Status a stronger pick against Corpus and Shielded enemies.As mentioned, Magnetic aims to have an updated Status Effect behaviour that’ll affect the Regeneration Delay, the Regeneration Rate and Reset Delay of Enemy Shields!
Additionally, we’re interested in the idea that the Magnetic Damage Type will have improved effectiveness against Nullifier Bubbles! Currently, this would look like:
Increased minimum damage against Nullifier Bubbles.
Increased maximum damage against Nullifier Bubbles.The problem with Magnetic is not the status itself, it's its uses. It kills shields and nothing else. Ofc, it was changed to cripple shields and it does its job, kinda poorly at that. But that's not the worst part ! Why bothers damaging shields when you can ignore them !? Just use Toxin. Much like Slash ignores armor, Toxin ignores shields.
Like I said with Cold, Toxin is a much easier element to use on build, you don't need 2 mods and it's flexible 'cause it goes into either Gas, Corrosive or Viral, which 2 of them are the best against Grineer.
The main difference tho' between Viral and Magnetic is that, Magnetic only works on Corpus, Viral works on everything. Everything that has "Health" is subject to Viral. Magnetic only affects "Shield". Who uses "Shield" ?
- Bosses, but you won't even think about using Magnetic against them.
- Some Sentients, but same as Bosses.
- All Corpus-related enemies, which includes : Corpus (wow), some Corrupted and Amalgams.
Would I bother using Magnetic against them when I have Toxin ? No. Will I bother after the update, absolutely not. And that's mostly due to the fact that I don't like fightning Corpus.
So, what can be done to revive Magnetic ? Not much I'm afraid. But again, here are some suggestions:
1) Good on everyone and everything, not just Corpus !
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Magnetic should work like Viral AND Corrosive, both at the same time, but for shields.
- Viral : It already does that, amplify damage done to shield.
- Corrosive : It should reduce shield for each stack, at 10 stacks, 80% of shields are removed and at 14 (not yet possible), 100%.
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On non-shielded enemies (includes Corpus who lost all their shields), it should jam their weapons for the duration (think Mesa's Shooting Gallery). At 10 stacks, maybe disarm them altogether.
- Don't think about logic here, Slash makes robots bleed oil, I get the idea but wtf ?
- Robots and machines should be first slowed up to 9 stacks and then stunned at 10.
2) Void's Bullet Attractor (might be too much of a hassle on the large scale of things).
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Remove Bullet Attractor from Void and use it on Magnetic instead.
- What about Void then ? Idk, make a new 'Void burn' status effect which reduces defences (armor and shield) by a % for each stack ?
- It should still destroy shields, obviously.
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Just encountered one of many host migration issue with the Corrupted Jackal ; it refused to die.
First, the host left on the 'quit or continue' screen, nothing wrong here. Then, we got tp'ed to Jackal area, still, nothing wrong here. While looking for decree fragments (2/3), the new host left, leaving me and another player. At first glance nothing would go wrong, but when the other player tried to parazon finish (first parazon ever) the Jackal, it refused to "die" and go to the next phase. This would go on until the time limit (never seen it before). We both tried to parazon him, one after the other and even let ourselves be killed to try and reset the Jackal. You can guess that it didn't lead to anything and we both lost our Circuit progression (not much on my part, Idk about the other player tho').
Others details would be that as Styanax I removed the Jackal's whole armor and the other player was a Revenant. Also, I was the new host, but my internet is pretty good.
I don't have anything more to say, I guess it has to do it all with host migration.
Jackal literally too angry to die.
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2 hours ago, MATHIELPRIME said:
Los on an ability that you gotta stack damage for it to be a nuke and suddenly an enemy goes out of sight before you detonate it is stupid as hell cause the place is filled with ignorant people saying its a one button nuke while they don't have the slightest of ideas how it works only way it's one button nuke is if you play in missions lvl 40 and down
I agree, but I have seen what DE did over the years (~9 years now), they RARELY backdown on stuff like this. I remember when Limbo got transformed into DIO, it was super fun, but the "projectile are frozen in time for both enemies and players" part made him disruptive, so he got smacked, I get the reason why, some times after this (or at the same time, can't remember), his ult could nuke entire rooms 'cause it did damage based on %max health of all enemies inside it. It was also super fun, but didn't last even 1 week, not sure either. It's been years. They NEVER reverted any nerf toward it.
On the same topic, Khora's whip could go through walls, nerfed, never reverted. Melee hits could aswell, never again. Spin2Win died with Maiming Strike, I had fun with it but got boring. Berserker (before it got renamed to Berserker Fury) was a must have, it died 8 years after its release, it got replaced with Primed Fury on every single build. Explosives weapons (such as Bramma and Zarr) got their ammo killed, everyone complained (mostly the Monkey spammer), did it get reverted ? No.
2 hours ago, MATHIELPRIME said:don't get me started on your logic of devs not bending the knee yes that's is an amazing way to loose revenue and player count especially when you mess up big time maybe if they were in the right and maybe only then they should do that
I'm not defending DE here, just devs as a whole. Devs don't make decisions, the market does. Also, devs have pride in what they do, if they think that what they did is for the best, then it is, we have no say in their business. If they do get financial losses and their image gets damaged, maybe they'll do something. Honestly I don't have much faith in DE since Reb took charge, it got better recently, but here we are.
2 hours ago, MATHIELPRIME said:but after they messed up with stuff that didn't need any messing like his damaging abilities when all the fuss was just for his overguard sharing hell will brake loose and that is based also on their comments saying that they got no problem with dantes damage but suddenly they implement a buggy mess of a system on it that hasn't been fixed for so many years
I agree. Overguard was the main target. Personally I think it gave a little too much OG (I'm playing Dante since release as of now) compared to Styanax/Frost's Augments. I know, they're Augments, they are optional, so they shouldn't give too much, while Dante is the official OG spammer, so it's obvious he's the best at OG generation.
There was NO reason to give Tragedy a LOS check. I'm sure it's mostly due to low level nuking, you cannot do that on SP (unless they're primed, etc). Look at Nova's 1st Augment when fused with Titania on Fissure, it got killed. Why ? 'cause it killed low levels too fast for its own good I guess. I miss it, but whatever.
2 hours ago, MATHIELPRIME said:so yea no clue how you think messing things up and then refusing to fix that is the correct way to go at some point people like you should understand when something is just messed up and stop fungirling everything DE does they are not gods on earth that never mess up they are people that can make mistakes and they have to man up to those mistakes and fix them also lying to the player base saying small changes and then messing his entire kit like that after doesn't really justify them standing their ground now does it?
I mean, it's not that bad, yeah LOS as a whole sucks and its implementation sucks even more, but so what ? If that's how the game's supposed to be, so be it, what can you do besides complaining and almost sending not-alive threats to the devs (I'm not saying someone did, you get the idea, right ?).
Was it a mistake to add LOS, nah, Dante is still strong af (not Mirage/Saryn strong but he's still pretty good) ? Is it a $&*^ move to change a product after someone paid real money for it ? Absolutely. You have all the rights to compalin, please do. If you can, ask for a refund, maybe they'll do it. Sue them even if that's what you want to do (might be extreme).
2 hours ago, MATHIELPRIME said:Ps: just like you didn't bother to read any of the other posts stating clear reason why los is garbage and should be removed
I have made a post earlier in this thread right here. What I meant it as literal, I have not read +750 messages. I may have read up to 100, but it was all the same ; Dante's Tragedy got nerfed for nothing. OG is disruptive, it's getting fixed next time, good. Nezha got reborn then killed, $&*^ move. Eximii (plural for Eximus) are now immune to all CC, that sucks as well. I know very well why LOS is garbage, I have seen it, I tested it on every single Warframe before I made my first post on the subject.
I abhor LOS as a whole, If it was me, I would remove LOS from many spells. It would create chaos, but what about it ? It's a PvE game, PvP doesn't exist (Conclave should be removed at this point). Only new players and wanna-be always first will complain that a Saryn destroyes everything. I have never complained about it, I like it. My mindset on this is "cool, another player does everything for me, I don't have to do anything like I usualy do, I can chill".
2 hours ago, MATHIELPRIME said:I didn't bother using any punctuation marks
That's just childish.
I may have missed stuff, but I will make my point clear. I don't like LOS, at all. Do I think it should be removed ? Maybe, if they do that's cool, I'm all for it, if they don't, that's too bad, I mean what can I do, I already complained about it. DE made several changes on the game that I would like to be reversed, but they never did. Maybe this time they will 'cause the amplitude it took was way over the top. If it does 👍.
Also, the YT gaslighting is sad.
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I haven't read the ~750 replies on this post, so it may have already been pointed out and/or suggested, but I did see some posts suggesting ways to fix the current LOS problem. Personally, I would find it best to keep LOS at this point, I don't think DE will (and should) break. I mean yeah, it makes them look bad 'cause "they don't listen to the community", but devs shouldn't blindly do what the community wants them to do. There are times where devs should bend the knee, but I don't think this the one.
I still think this was a bad move on DE's part ; the change was rushed and greatly impaired Dante's nuking capabilities because the applied LOS check was utter garbage. Anyway, keep the LOS as is, just fix it for real. As of now, Dante's model/hitbox blocks the LOS check (this includes Warframes and bodies). This is just ridiculous.
Now, the suggestion that I have seen spread and that I'm most content with:
Quote- Make Dark Verse and Tragedy synergize more ; since LOS is kept, make it so that all enemies affected by Dark Verse are always hit by Tragedy, no LOS required.
- This could also apply to Noctua's hit (both the 1st ability and Wordwarden) and Pageflight. But just the 1st point would do greatly.
For records, I have already read 100th of messages and posted 1 (now 3) myself here :
And also, since someone misunderstood me (this post may or may not be badly worded), I made a clear response of my POV :
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Many have said (like myself) that the overguard change won't do anything. DE missed the mark. Like someone already said, I highly doubt that DE will revert the LOS requirement. I still think that it's a bad move, 1) LOS is broken 2) Why not Saryn, Mirage, etc. ? Why just Dante ? Maybe in the future they will get their due and simply disappear from the game, but right now, Dante took an underserved shot. Either, apply diminishing return, reduce range to mimic Dark Verse (30m → 20m) or reduce damage multiplier (×3 → ×2).
I know, as of now, DE is currently looking into LOS to fix it once and for all, maybe ? It's just too bad, but won't change too much.
I'll hijack this post to redirect to the comment I made on the hotfix post.
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2 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:
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Increased Wordwarden’s weapon damage on warded allies from 30% to 50%.
- The Wordwarden felt a bit lackluster in comparison to the rest of Dante’s abilities, so we gave it a boost to encourage players to experiment and engage with it more.
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Final Verse’s “Tragedy” now only affects enemies within Line of Sight.
- This felt like the most reasonable change to Tragedy since it could be cast back to back without much forethought on positioning. So to make it a more active ability, enemies must now be within range in your Line of Sight to be impacted by it.
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Reduced the amount of Overguard gained from Final Verse’s “Triumph” from 5000 to 2000 at Max Rank.
- For a bit of compensation, we increased Triumph’s base Overguard Regeneration per second from 50 to 100 at Max Rank (can still be modified with Ability Strength).
- Reduced the amount of Overguard gained from Light Verse from 500 to 250 at Max Rank (can still be modified with Ability Strength).
- Added Overguard Cap stat to Final Verse’s “Triumph” description to make it clear that there are cases where the cap for Light Verse and Triumph can be different (ex: when using the Precision Intensify Mod).
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Final Verse’s “Pageflight” no longer applies increased Status Effect Damage to enemies hit by its Paragrimms.
- This was an undocumented element of Pageflight, but for the sake of transparency we wanted to inform you of its removal. We believe its removal strikes a better balance and synergy with Status Damage inflicted by Tragedy.
- NOTE: This is not a removal of the Status Vulnerability added to enemies by Pageflight. We are only removing the unintended additional damage taken from Status Effects.
Wordwarden buff is welcomed. Overguard nerfs were obvious and won't change anything. Pageflight's hidden effect won't be missed I guess ?
But, Tragedy's LOS requirement is a bad move. Yeah, the spell is good, it's an ultimate ability, it should be strong. You could've nerfed its range to match Dark Verse (30m → 20m) and/or its damage multiplier (×2 instead of ×3). It doesn't help that LOS check is garbage in this game, there's a lot of inconsistency that many other players have already mentioned.
Now, why do I think it's a bad move. One, this is a nerf for a nerf, there's no other reason behind it, just to keep the "muh balancing philosophy" intact. Do not even try to pull out the "it's disruptive" card, look at Saryn. Second, what about those then : they do not need any LOS. Some may just be inconsistency, blame Simulacrum.
Spoiler• Banshee's Sonar
• Banshee's Silence
• Banshee's Sound Quake
• Caliban's Sentient Wrath
• Citrine's Prismatic Gem
• Dagath's Rakhali's Cavalry
• Ember's Fireball
• Equinox's Rest & Range
• Equinox's Pacify & Provoke
• Equinox's Mend & Maim
• Excalibur's Radial Javelin
• Frost's Ice Wave
• Frost's Avalanche
• Gara's Shattered Lash ; both.
• Garuda's Seeking Talons ; only quick-tap.
• Gauss' Mach Rush
• Gauss' Thermal Sunder ; both.
• Grendel's Pulverize ; slam.
• Grendel's Regurgitate
• Gyre's Arcsphere ; initial landing.
• Inaros' Sandstorm
• Kullervo's Recompense
• Lavos' Vial Rush ; impact.
• Lavos' Transmutation Probe
• Lavos' Catalyze
• Loki's Radial Disarm
• Mag's Magnetize ; pulling.
• Mag's Polarize
• Mag's Crush
• Nezha's Divine Spears
• Nova's Antimatter Drop
• Nova's Molecular Prime
• Nyx's Chaos
• Nyx's Absorb
• Oberon's Hallowed Ground
• Oberon's Reckoning
• Rhino's Rhino Stomp
• Saryn's Miasma
• Sevagoth's Reap
• Sevagoth's Sow
• Sevagoth's Gloom
• Sevagoth's Exalted Shadow's Embrace
• Vauban's Bastille ; both.
• Volt's DischargeYou could argue that for some of them, physic does the trick (Banshee). But Dante's Tragedy uses Void magic, it goes through space and time, so nothing related to "physics" and "logic" is valid here.
Be consistent. If Equinox's bleed goes through walls, why not Dante's ? If you were to apply LOS check on every frame 'cause of ~muh balance~, frames like Banshee (who has no ult) should simply be removed from the game and Saryn (one of the strongest frame, ever) would suffer. An explosion (like a bomb, Zarr/Bramma), should be blocked by LOS. Banshee's abilities shouldn't ; waves travel through matter, etc.
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Increased Wordwarden’s weapon damage on warded allies from 30% to 50%.
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Not gonna lie, I don't like the changes about the Combo System and Heavy Attacks (and some stuff related to techniques I guess ?).
First of all, everything about this feels very slow, too slow for a game that wants you to go as fast as possible. Moving seems slow and even killing enemies like lancer +100 (as of this update) seems like trying to kill a napalm +100 (before all the changes) and the worst about this is that I had no trouble taking down enemies above +100 before.
Since the combo system is gone, all (but not exalted weapons or abilities related to melee [the 25% scaling is irrelevant], why is that ?) melee weapons got a ~3× damage boost to "compensate", but it just doesn't work. Okay I guess it's cool to one shot everything below 20 now, but I could do that before as well so it feels pointless, now the problem is that since your weapon damage doesn't scale with how many times you hit/kill something anymore you basically take 1 year to kill any mobs that are too tanky for your sad melee weapon, so you just take your everyday primaries/secondaries without really caring about your melee weapons, which I believe should be the opposite, considering taking the fight at extreme close range may normally be benefiting, but it's not the case anymore, 'cause the damage output is just embarrassing. Even by shredding grineer armor it's just sad really and now that, just as I said, damage doesn't scale up anymore, it may takes even longer to taken down corpus shield, killing units affected by ancients' aura or the ancients themselves at high levels (you know, the "end game" stuff like, sorties, arbitration, siphon, ESO).
Now the heavy attacks. First I really don't understand why it has been promoted to 'Hey, you wanna do any damage to a single target in a game that shouts: KILL THE MOST ENEMIES AS FAST AS POSSIBLE!, then try this out, please'. This really bothers me, this feels like I need to use it to do any killing above +100 now, but I really don't want to, it's slow and I don't want to kill enemies one by one with a melee weapon (like a polearm) every minute, if want to do that, I'll take any sniper or something even as low as a Lato, it may just be even better at this point. Why does this cool little mechanic that you could use anytime you want without any cost (besides time) had to replace and use the most important thing melee had to fight against (or in pair with) primaries and secondaries ? I do understand that they tried to revamp it so that it may be used more when needed and save it from the same fate of the channeling system. They took the concept of combo (which is, the more you hit, the harder) and used it for the heavy attacks, but IT JUST DOESN'T WORK (you hear me Todd Howard ?), why would I spend all the 220 hits (which is the max right now) I did beforehand to do ×12 more damage on a single enemy that isn't a boss ? Why would they place so much importance into this new heavy attack system, do they want us to do just like in the old days, when heavy attacks were just too good ? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that this new Heavy Attack system is bad (even if I describe it as if was), it is not, but there is a flaw so big that I don't understand how and why they thought it would be cool to do it this way.
Finally, why I believe everything is just TOO SLOW is about the techniques (but the loss the of the combo system is a great part of it as well). For example, before this update, Clashing Forest's Skyward Limb combo would make me move forward until I reached some distance from my initial position, but now I'm not moving at all, why ? Another one that isn't as bad as Clashing Forest is the spin attack (the famous taboo mechanic, thanks to MS), before the update when I was doing spin attacks to move around with high attack speed (and not even killing) I could move some distance, most noticeable with Wukong's Iron staff where I could move even further (remember that Iron Staff already had some of the mechanics from the current system), now it seems like it was a bit nerfed, it doesn't bother me but since Wukong was already affected by some part of the current I would of believed that it won't change or at least, apply to every other melee weapons.
If I could give any feedback for the devs that may or may not look at this thread, give us back the old combo system (using the old formula and the same values as before : ×1.5 at 5, ×2 at 15, etc...) as a way to make our melee weapons' damage scale with our enemies and compete against primaries and secondaries (just as it did before), revert all the damage buff if you have to and of course, rebalance Blood Rush, Weeping Wounds and anything related to combos. Keep the current heavy attack system and leave the combo as a resource, but when using a heavy attack, don't use 100% of the combo, instead remove the number of hit of our current multiplier (ex: let's say we're at 300 hits, which would translate to ×3 (135). To achieve ×3 (135) from ×2.5 (45) we need 90 hits, when using a heavy attack it would then use 90 hits and waste every hit above ×3 until you reach ×2.5), this I believe would at least give the choice to the player of whether or not to use it (again, just as it did before, do not make it an obligation to do everything) and lastly, I don't know if this what intended but, make techniques what you wanted them to be : smooth and FAST, when I go forward with a forward attack, it should do just that, that goes for spin attack as well.
TL;DR : Revert combo to the old system. Keep new heavy attacks but change the way it consumes combo. Fix(?) techniques.-
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Wanted to try this out, at first I was thinking it was caused by the Odonata since it's the only one mentioned here (you never know), so I used the Itzal.
I tried the mission, and up to a certain point, after like a minute I got TP'd 1km forward, of course I blinked back into the playing zone, but after killing some more enemies and moving like a mad person I got TP'd 3 to 4km outside the zone. Lotus warned me so I tried to blink back but I couldn't cause I wasn't able to use my abilities and got kicked out of the mission.
A friend of mine did the mission like 1 or 2 weeks ago or so, meaning that this problem was caused by one of the recent update and like someone posted above, it might be caused by background stuff for Empyrean.
Just to be sure, I would advise anyone to wait for a fix before doing anymore of this mission cause the game may (I might be wrong, but as I said earlier, you never know) detect some kind of Speed Hack, even if it's not the case, moving 3-4km instantaneously is suspicious, and even the Itzal can't go as far as this (max. 640m).
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Hello,
Premièrement, je pense que ce message aurait pu/du être posté sur:
- https://forums.warframe.com/forum/143-discussion-générale/
OU
- https://forums.warframe.com/forum/145-aide/
Pour des messages en francais... Je ne sais pas si sa change grand chose mais bon.
Deuxièmement, Warframe (Digital Extremes dans ce cas) 'rembourse' très rarement voir jamais les ressources que tu peux potentiellement 'perdre', donc n'espère pas grand chose de ce côté-là, surtout si tu n'as aucune preuve à montrer. Tu pense bien que si DE te redonne les ressources perdues, beaucoup de personne pourrait en abusé, et dans ce cas, même une preuve photo serait inutile car l'édition de photo/screenshot est très facile aujourd'hui.
Dans tout les cas, good luck.
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All vaulted primes (such as Rhino, Nova, etc. and recently Vauban) will come back sooner or later, as a matter of fact, there should be another one this year (maybe in October).
Currently, the Vault allows you to get Frost, Ember and Loki, but the last one was Rhino and Mag, so the next ones should probably be Nova, Nyx and Volt? Maybe?
For the affinity, you're right, if you kill an enemy with an ability, the warframe gets 100% of the affinity. If you need more infos about how affinity works, just head to the wiki (http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Affinity) ;)
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Q: Will we ever get non-humanoid Warframes (like Zanuka) ?
Jade Shadows - Dev Workshop: Enemy Resistances and Status Rework
in Developer Workshops
Posted · Edited by OrionTCB
Do you mean to say that going from 10k armor to 2k isn't only a DR% side of things, since total EHP is also reduced ? Yeah I know. Going from 10k armor to 2k (using 10 Corrosive stacks) reduces the total DR% of ~97% to ~87%, which means that if you have 10k HP, your EHP would go down from ~333k EHP to ~77k EHP → the whole thing got divided by ~4.
Also, why should I "adjust" my opinion ? Because you feel it's wrong ? I don't think it is, I'm also not saying it's a good one, nor is it the best by any mean, but It's mine, I wrote everything knowing full well how the game runs so I will stand firmly. Now now, I don't need to point the obvious, reducing enemy EHP from 1/3 of a million to 1/13 is a huge gain, I'm not denying it, but I wasn't talking about your everyday armor and SP enemies, I was aiming towards "extremes", such as level cap SP where even if you go down from 1M armor to 200k on a 1M HP enemy, it's still stupid high (~3B to 667M EHP btw).
The "threshold" I was referring to is hard to define, it would be like the exact moment where reducing armor (not 100% strip) won't do much anymore, like "stop bothering, just go 100% strip" or "why should I keep hitting this wall when I can just ignore it with bleed ?". It is also the exact same point where Corrosive dies. That's why I also suggested for a linear-curve 'cause I feel it's more manageable on DE's side and "easier" to grasp how much DR% you get from armor at a glance, someone pointed out how bad it would be, but I can't seem to see how, if it's managed well, there is no reason for it to fail (that might where the "bad" comes in, but Idk). Also, I still feel like that if Corrosive affected base armor instead of current (total), we wouldn't be talking about how armor is "too much".
Since you also quoted my comment on frames, I'll say this : Warframes cannot go sky high, since none builds for armor (besides Rhino users) or health really (again, besides Inaros users this time), it doesn't matter, it's not worth investing into armor, 'cause 1) most frames have a base 33%-50% DR, that's already good enough and 2) we have Adaptation, Rolling Guard and Shield gating. Also, don't forget that at high level, no matter how much DR% you have (be it armor + adaptation and whatnot), enemies will simply start to oneshot you if you're not playing around the shield gating mechanic.
Obviously, the DR% (or should I say EHP multiplier ?) having a cap is gonna solve a lot of high level problem.