m0b1us1
-
Posts
309 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Posts posted by m0b1us1
-
-
15 hours ago, FollowTheFaceless said:
Then NAME your CONSTRUCTIVE "DISCUSSION" correctly - RAID RELATED.
Thanks for letting everyone know that you didn't read the post at all and that I was using raids to make examples of both authentic and artificial difficulty.
Instead of me changing my post to cater to people who can't read an entire argument without focusing on one aspect, I will leave it as is because raids is just a small part of the post and is not the focus what so ever. Note how I do not suggest bringing raids back and instead focus on improving onslaught to be actually difficult.
Need me to hold your hand and guide you through? I will be more than glad to help you understand.
-
3 minutes ago, Ecliptix said:
Yah I dont like pre forming groups often for stuff like this so cheesing it can be difficult with out that cohesion. I am not even sure what end game would be in this game. I never personally saw raids that way outside of them being the only place to get arcanes but with that changed I am not sure where to go from here.
That is the question that everyone is trying to answer, but don't realize it. What is end game exactly. Some people who enjoy stuff like eidolons and onslaught think that having the best gear is end game. To an extent, that is end game because it takes time and grinding to get that gear. To others like myself, end game challenges my mastery of the game itself, not just the gear.
To me, end game would be taking my knowledge and experience from playing warframe and putting it to the test. It would be testing me on how mobile I could be, how quickly can I pick out a major threat and react, the knowledge I have of my teammates and what they need, where I need to position myself, basically all the other factors that aren't gear related. Hence why I gave the idea for the zones. I'm like you, I don't have a "perfect" idea of what end game would be like, I just know that it shouldn't be reduced down to "do you have XYZ? Then you win".
-
1 hour ago, ljmadruga said:
You two should not be talking bad about raids when I can count on one hand the number of raids you have attempted between the two of you.
(Not to mention that every single one of the attempts was AFTER the raids were announced to be removed. Hmm, I wonder why? /s)
Raids had their own dedicated community that, despite the aforementioned obstacles to even start one, grew and stuck together since they were introduced.
Using Eidolons and Sanctuary Onslaught as a replacement for raids is comparable to using a bandaid to heal a severed limb.
In their defense, there was, and still is, a ton of players who complain about raids being removed. If you see anything enough, you are going to get tired of it. What they should have done though is actually read the post and realize that I was mostly talking about lack of end game and how raids gave us some sort of end game. I had one kid try to tell me that I only missed raids because of the plat. Well I quickly ground his argument into dust when I told him that they could have simply added arcanes to eidolons and kept raids and I wouldn't have had a problem at all.
Granted they don't have much experience at all and probably are just saying stuff because they feel like they have to say something even if it has no substance. Still at least that shows they are somewhat willing to put forth something and we should be trying to help them understand the argument as a whole.
-
1 hour ago, Ecliptix said:
That is a big post. My only issues really other than the crashing is the curve at which the efficiency decays ramps up pretty quick and that some maps just do not have enough spawns. I never expected this to be an end game mode unless you just really were super competitive to be at the top on the leader boards. I just dont have aspirations of being that cool so Im relatively happy with it although it is really one dimensional.
A big reason they did that was to make it seem more difficult. You can cheese kill high level enemies, so to stop that they made it so that you must be able to increase how quickly you must kill. It's a way of limiting how long one can feasibly go.
I'm with you, I never expected it to be an end game mode, however DE is trying to pass this off as end game. That is what I am disappointed about. If they introduced it as just a new way to gain focus and some relics then I would be fine. Of course that comes with the stipulation that they would be working on a true end game.
-
1 hour ago, FollowTheFaceless said:
Another Raid-whining...
Another person who doesn't have anything of substance to say or add to any discussion yet feels like they must say something.
-
Let me start out by saying that I did not try casual onslaught, I went straight to elite. I have to say that overall, I am extremely disappointed. I went in with my typical set up (Inaros, vectis prime, akstilleto prime, a plague zaw), nothing special, and got to round 6 or 7, just over 246k points completely solo, and didn't even need to use my abilities for the most part. Towards the end I started trying to spam them just to see what would happen and how much I needed to use an ability for me to get a penalty, but I only needed to use my 1 ability once so I had enough time to charge my 4.
The problem with "Difficulty"
Let's not beat around the bush here. DE released this mode as a way to try to appeal to the raid community. Eidolons are nothing but a gear check and bored a lot of players and had terrible rewards until they made them into a focus farm and put arcanes on the drop tables. However, as a supposed replacement of raids, DE clearly does not fully understand why people played raids. DE must understand that the best thing about raids was that they had AUTHENTIC difficulty. I still think it's hilarious that DE used the play rate of a mission type that was gated by a key that took 6 hours to build, no public queue system, and only gave rewards once a day to justify removing raids. Then they lazily "thanked" us by giving everyone a flashy version of the normal LoR emblem. Didn't even put forth the effort to make something new, or anything to differentiate those who had played them a ton vs someone who just played once and only for the emblem. Anyway, let me continue to the meat of my opinion.
What is authentic difficulty? Well that is the idea that the difficulty is increased to require more skill. Example, Super Smash Brothers Melee or Chess. If you set the AI to the lowest level, it gives you ample opportunities to win and does not punish your mistakes. When you start increasing the difficulty, the AI makes faster decisions, gives you less time to react, punishes your mistakes, but the overall game does not change the advantages.
Artificial difficulty is the opposite. The difficulty is increased such that your skill does not require change. Take SSBM for the same example and increase it's handicap to max and yours to lowest, but keep it's difficulty at minimum. You will find that the lowest difficulty is insanely hard to KO, yet does not require any change up in skill if you are good at the game already. What the handicap does is make the AI (or player controlling that character) experience less knock back while giving more. So you go from being able to stomp this easy AI, to having to beat on him like a sandbag for a while before knocking him off or using a cheese strategy. Imagine if a chess AI was instead starting to replace pawns with queens. Or if pokemon got tougher by just giving increased stats (even beyond what is "possible") instead of just improving the AI to make better decisions. So no dragonite spamming agility against a venomoth because the attack type is super effective against venomoth.
"But what does that have to do with raids and onslaught?"
Excellent question! Raids, as buggy as they were, were difficult because it required more than just a gear check. To complete any raid, team work wasn't an option, it was a prerequisite. Standing on the buttons in LoR was boring sure, but your team HAD to cooperate so then another player could escort the core down the line or open doors for you to access where you needed to drop batteries. In JV, you had to shoot buttons to drop a force field or to open the head on the golem so then someone else could push a spore to where it needed to go. This required actual team work as one person could not do it alone. The artificial difficult of raids can't be ignored either. In NMLoR, standing on pads would drain your energy. Did this make the raid more challenging? Of course not. All it did was require you to rely on an EV trin more or if you were speed running it then just use more energy pizzas. The electrified rail would basically one shot the core, did that make the raid more challenging? Nope. All it did was make that section unforgiving. If you ran everything smoothly, with a team that knew what they were doing, then one wouldn't really be able to tell the difference between NM and normal LoR at all.
Now, onslaught... it's purely artificial difficulty and its terribly boring as a result. DE is essentially giving the mobs a handicap boost and calling that "elite". Does the requirements to beat the enemy change? Nope. Does the game require you to adapt and improve? Nope. It's the exact same thing as beating up the easiest CPU is SSBM, but them having a huge handicap. It's just yet another gear check. The only challenge I had was navigating some weird tile sets so I could kill enemies quickly and didn't have to waste time running around to find the 2 focus things.
It seems like DE doesn't fully understand just how powerful you can get in this game. If you watch their streams, it looks like they use partially modded equipment. What might be "challenging or elite" for DE is more than likely a cake walk for an older player. This doesn't apply to just DE however, this is a problem that every developer faces. What one thinks of as "challenging" might be easy for someone else. There is a game that talks about this very idea perfectly. In the game, "Getting Over It", the creator tells us a bit about how he developed the game as we are playing it. He talks about how he made the game in parts, he would make once section, try for hours to get past it, and once he got past it, develop the next without having to repeat the prior parts. He continues by saying that what might have taken him hours, someone else will be able to beat that particular section in mere minutes within an hour of releasing the game. He understood the fact that what the developer thinks is hard might not be hard at all to other people. So he didn't make any changes even if it took him hours and hours to get past a section. DE must learn to accept this fact, what they think is challenging or hard can and will be considered easy by some players. So when designing the concept behind "elite" onslaught, they should have kept that in mind.
So what does all this mean? "Elite" onslaught is not elite at all. It is purely an timed exterminate mission with purely artificial difficulty. There is nothing about it that will put your skills to the test. Unlike in raids where at least you had to have team work.
What is the point of doing anything difficult?
Now, one must answer the question of WHY would one do high difficulty stuff at all? Of course one easy answer is for rewards, another is for prestige, and the last is because they want a challenge. The rewards of raids were arcanes. In a large number of ways, having 2 sets of arcane grace or a set of energize showed prestige (or a nice wallet) since you can only gain arcanes from raids once a day. Having a large number of arcanes showed that you had beaten the best the game had to offer and gave you rewards for it.
What does onslaught have to offer for rewards in terms of prestige? Nothing. Peculiar mods are fun sure, but overall are worse than worthless. They take up a mod slot which stops that slot from being used for something that will help your performance. So the only value peculiar mods have is to WORSEN your performance. If you have max focus, then you don't benefit from the focus farm. Raids gave you not only a cosmetic that would show off what you did (that wouldn't harm your game play), but also reward you with arcanes that could be used to push you to the next level. So realistically, the only reason to do "elite" onslaught is for the radiant relics.
Ideas and concepts that direct how things should be changed
Those are the problems with onslaught and DE's recent decisions. Now what can be done to fix those problems? I think it can be boiled down into 2 major solutions.
1. Make "elite" onslaught worth it's name. Collecting 2 objects and killing a bunch of stuff isn't hard at all. Even putting restrictions on abilities doesn't make it hard unless you are using an ability reliant frame like Mag or Nova. Don't focus on artificial difficulty, put time and effort to make it actually difficult. If playing solo, have optional areas that slowly shrink while you are standing in, that give you extra efficiency, focus, w/e, but as it shrinks your movement is limited. This would make it require you to adapt your play style. Or make it so that you gain extra focus when getting kills with either only your primary, secondary, or melee. You can even get more creative and have zones that grant more efficiency based on how much damage you can tank/mitigate, how many enemies you can CC, how many enemies you can kill with abilities only, you get the idea. When playing with a team, make zones pop up that require you to split up or group. If you split up then different zones can have different changes, or if grouped up will modify the enemies that spawn to have more AoE coverage. You can even go into the silly route by having zones that invert controls! There are so many possibilities to make the game authentically difficult that it makes me sad to see DE take such a lazy design route.
2. Give "elite" onslaught rewards that are worthwhile. Peculiar mods are terrible, let's not sugar coat it. Raids could give you lots of credits (500k if you found a credit booster), all sorts of boosters, COMPLETE detonite injectors, arcanes, emblems, and a unique experience that required team work that isn't found anywhere else without relying on artificial difficulty. Improve drop tables as we get further. Like Kuva survival, if we can make it 2 hours in, 300 endo (200 kuva) reward is simply a slap in the face. Eidolons took arcanes because without them, the only reason you have to kill eidolons is to get amps, which are only used to kill more eidolons, and focus farming. Give the veterans something that is worth going to this mode. Give us a drop that let's us IMPROVE our game play. NOTE: THE FOLLOWING SUGGESTIONS ARE BASED ON A FAR MORE DIFFICULT AND CHALLENGING MODE AND ARE JUST USED FOR EXAMPLES. Like a reward for breaking some set score that let's us add arcanes back to cosmetics (under the condition that no more than 2 sets can be used on one frame). Give us SOMETHING that makes us feel like our dedication was rewarded. Peculiar mods make it seem like all our work is being made fun of. Here is one idea, give us some currency from this mode "onslaught points" that can be used to buy stuff like focus, endo, credits for relatively low amounts of points. Stuff like relics, mods, rare resources (injectors, mutagen mass, etc) for a "medium" amount of points. Finally some major stuff like cosmetics, boosters, items that lock in stats for rivens, and the ability to use arcanes on a cosmetic.
At long last, a conclusion
Overall, there is only 1 lesson to learn here. DE, you must realize that what you think is hard is not hard at all to many players. I remember when you claimed beating eidolons would be like beating raids. Nothing further could be from the truth as we have people solo'ing the tridolons TWICE in a single night, teams beating them four times in one night. The hardest thing about eidolons is not getting one shot by harry's instant magnetic pulses if you don't have a trin on your team (not the ones from taking out a limb). I, like so many veterans, want a challenge. Giving us yet another gear check is not a challenge. DE, throw your worst at us. If you think it's hard, ramp it up two fold at least. "Elite" onslaught at the moment does not give us a challenge. Already the record is 3 million points and its not even been out for more than a few hours. Give us something that will truly put us to the test, not just what gear we have, but our experiences and skills as a whole, and reward us based on that.
When you do that, then we will at long last have a true end game.
-
So, I started playing warframe quite some time ago. I have logged about 1300 hours in and have basically played everything there is. However, what has been announced and today's stream has made it crystal clear that DE cares more about their pride than their players.
I had tons of fun figuring out how to play warframe, what frames I liked, how certain weapons performed under what cases, customizing my gear to a degree unparalleled than any F2P game (and even P2P games for that matter), and spending time actively working towards something that I wanted. However, like everyone who has played this game a decent bit, I found myself hitting a wall of grinding and lacking things to do. I wanted a challenge. So I started doing pub raids and fell in love with them. Finally, a game mode where it wasn't just "stand here for 5 minutes and don't let this die", or "just kill stuff and leave". Raids provided me the only true challenge that could ever be found in this game, cooperation.
Raids were the only mode that required teamwork, communication, and not simply a "do you have the best gear?" check. Were the raids challenging? At first yes, I had to learn what to do, where to go, and how to rely on others to do what else needed to be done. For the first time, I was playing a mode that genuinely tested my skills as a warframe player and not simply if I had the best weapons and best builds.
Then PoE comes out. At first I enjoyed it despite all the disgusting problems with it that I NEVER had with raids. Cetus was (and is) a place I would have no quarrels about never going to. The only time I went there was when I absolutely had to for Gara's quest. Going from/to Cetus from PoE, it would take me anywhere from 5-10 minutes to load in solo. When I finally got in, due to the nature of a mass open world environment and an outrageous amount of particles going on (seriously, does DE have a fetish for explosions or something?), the game play was awful. Then rain was added and that just compounded all the problems even further. Terrible frame rates coupled with boring "objectives" for rewards that honestly weren't that good. With exception to infested zaws when they came out. To this day, I still can't play with friends due to how laggy PoE is. Eidolons were boring at best. They took absolutely no skill and even solo were easy to take down. What did I get for taking down or capturing eidolons? Operator gear that would only be useful in fighting more eidolons. The grind that normally would help out other areas and missions became a grind that only helped out on that exact same grind.
Then DE, you guys really started pissing me off. Every chance you got seemed to be shoving PoE down our throats. The infestation made it painfully obvious that Cetus is simply garbage as you had tons of people flooding it. The ghouls, rather cool enemies, you made ONLY for PoE and hyped them up. Just to find them just as easy to kill as a lancer. The only challenge PoE offered was bad frame rate and objectives that would have me wanting to fall asleep. The times to do one bounty would vary as sometimes I would get lucky with "capture", "find the caches", "rescue", all while not being that far apart. Other times I would have to travel 500m to get to one objective, defend a point for 4 minutes, control an area for another 3 minutes another 400m away, "escort the drone" another 300m, and I hated every second of it. Shaky performance, no challenge at all, grinding and terribly long objectives all for rewards that only helped in PoE, I simply stopped playing on PoE. Besides, only your operator would benefit from grinding PoE and the operator is simply garbage to play. Then you had the moronic idea to put the vaulted relics on bounties only. Thankfully I have friends and tons of syndicate points so I don't need to play on PoE.
Then you announced that you were removing the one thing I actually would look forward to. Removing the one thing that was actually a challenge. Removing the one thing that would be considered "end game" bar endless void survival and defense missions. Why? You gave some stupid excuse on stream that makes no sense what so ever. Excuses like "oh its not played that much" when we still have lunaro and conclave and the fact you completely disregarded the fact that you need keys to play raids and these keys take several hours to build all on top of the fact you only get the rewards once a day. Yet all the resources you are wasting on lunaro and conclave are staying put. You outright lied to us DE. You aren't bring back raids. You even have the audacity to claim that even after saying you are moving all the arcanes to eidolons even claiming that eidolons are somehow "raid worthy". Have you played your own game at all? Eidolons aren't hard what so ever. They take no communication, no teamwork. All they take is for you to grind PoE a ton and have good gear. That's it. No skill involved.
DE, you aren't helping anyone with this poorly thought out decision to remove raids. You are lying to yourselves and us. They aren't being removed because you want to work on them, or that they aren't popular. You are removing them because PoE is a terribly boring grind fest and this is a way that you can try to force more players to play PoE. I have seen companies do this many times before, they get so full of themselves that they stop listening to the community. TF2 did it, and eventually they tried to fix the damage. Although anyone that plays it can tell you that the damage has been done. Riot did it with League of Legends. At one point they had major matches going on year round, streaming 6/7 days a week. Then they stopped listening and now they only stream a fraction of the time. I thought better of you, I really did. I watched you with nothing but praise as you would listen to the community. Then this happened. This stream where you spat in our faces as your pride blinded you. I'm not mad at DE, I'm just disappointed. I thought DE would be better than the big name companies and respect their community.
Without raids, I simply have nothing left to play on warframe. Eidolons aren't challenging or rewarding. PoE isn't fun or enjoyable. I am mad at myself for letting me think that DE would be any different. I love this game, I really do. I just can't bring myself to play something where I know that the community isn't valued when compared the the pride of the company. Maybe I will come back in 3-5 years when raids are back. Then again, it seems like more realistically they will NEVER come back. I will not have PoE shoved down my throat while DE lies and makes up excuses to try to justify those actions.
-
New stance and more reach, or a complete rehaul, or the ability to use heavy blade stances and make scythes bigger. Anything like one of those would do wonders.
-
I understand the OP's point, as someone who was using the vectis prime reguarly far before PoE was even announced, the zoom doesn't seem to encourage any kind of long range game. Even the AI will be shooting you at 100+ meters at times (not even including the marksmen). I think the first zoom level should have been reduced to make it better at medium ranges and other tile sets, but the second level should have at least stayed the same to help the player have a easier time making those 300m+ headshots. Sure, you can always go for a body shot, but your overall damage will be significantly less. It doesn't really matter when you are only dealing with level 20s, but the upper tier bounties will often have units that don't always die from a body shot. Also, it feels so much better to land a head shot than body.
So why not have both?
-
6 hours ago, Raynalle said:
is not anime is a way of fight with the weapon, the weapon are the one who became too anime like, and big scythes are way too anime, already use scythes in general is weird but you know, ninja game, giant one are just too much, the stance of the scythe are not bad, go with speed and more than attack all the weak one attack the tank one, the teammate will e happy and you will be able to use that weapon.
but no one really like the scythe this is the point, scythe or big sword? come on mate people like the other one more, katana (or next big katana) or scythe? i understand is a farm game so scythe are the best but... no one like them even before use stance or see the range.
I am fairly certain NO ONE uses a gunblade (redeemer and sarpa), a spiked club made of ice, or chainsaw blade gauntlets to fight, but warframe does. That is just talking about melee weapons. I am also certain no one except in sci-fi uses a giant laser cannon as a weapon either or a pump action shotgun that shots waves of radiation.
So that argument of "no one but anime uses big scythes" is hardly a problem at all.
-
I would love to see either a complete rehaul of scythes or the ability to change them using different stances like the split dark sword. Have the normal stances and what not, but then give them the ability to use a heavy blade stance. When using a heavy blade stance, their model grows to be more like a "great scythe" that players want along with some minor stat changes like increase in range.
Look at how bad machetes were at one point, then one new stance was introduced and they vastly improved. Just a better stance would be a good start.
-
17 hours ago, Fractalisomega said:
Inaros is a waframe built for stalling.... which is generally counteractive to the pace of the game. But enough about what Inaros is and isn't... what are your thoughts on the suggested alterations?
Should Devour damage scale up slowly?
Should Sandstorm deal more than just Slash status? (DPS is fine by me... just would like some help bypassing shield and armor)
Would more visibility for a Charged Scarab Swarm help?
I wouldn't go that far to say "stalling". One could make the same argument for similar frames like Frost, Oberon, Nyx to some degree, and many others. Rather I think it's better to say that he is meant for long term buffs/healing as opposed to spontaneous buffs like Trinity and Rhino.
Well the issue with trying to balance devour is that we don't know all that much about it. We know how long the CC last for, how power strength affects the damage and healing, but we don't know the numbers behind it and sand shadows. I don't think the damage should scale up simply because there shouldn't be a need to. You shouldn't have to stay in one spot eating an enemy for 2 minutes just to kill them. If anything, I would remove the energy lost from making a sand shadow and change it so that when an enemy that is affected by devour is killed by Inaros, a sand shadow is created that has a set duration (affected by mods) and a secondary duration that is affected by actually eating the target. Basically, make the bug a feature and make the sand shadow duration numbers clear.
Sandstorm shouldn't be for damage. If you want a sandstorm to deal significant damage, there is a mod that allows it to use the mods from your melee. Don't use your sandstorm to kill level 80 gunners, it won't work out in the long run.
Not necessarily visibility, rather a more obvious distinction from devour. As someone who has played Inaros for so long, I can tell the difference, but to others it's too similar. Like I said before, some sort of small indicator above the heads of enemies affected by devour would be great and a simple way to fix that. Other than that, change 1 of the 2 buff indicators to show the duration of the CC (it would be so much nicer than to having to keep a timer in my head) and add a new indicator to show when you are in range of the healing aura of enemies affected by scarab swarm. Even make it stackable with a number so then players have an idea of how many enemies are affected/healing them.
I wouldn't buff Inaros at all. His power isn't as obvious as Nidus, Valkyr, or Loki. It's more drawn out and becomes more apparent the more you play with him. Also once you get a set or two of arcane grace, then the last thing you will ever think about is buffing Inaros. More often than not, you will be annoyed that people don't know his abilities or in the rare case you go down they start reviving you and die instead of throwing out a ton more damage to insta-revive you.
-
4 hours ago, Fractalisomega said:
I use Inaros quite a lot too (most used frame ATM) and I find that I run into a lot of players who don't know how he works...
While Devour isn't the fasted heal it is the one you always turn to when you need that HP without worrying about damage from enemies (plus it also heals your pet), drawing lots of enemy aggro that your team doesn't have to deal with, sets up great for Sandstorm with the aggro'd enemies. I don't care about Sand Shadows tbh... they're cutrate Nekros zombies with no warning they're going to drop.
Sandstorm is fine when it comes to energy if you use Rage... even then... having it fairly high means you can't hide in there with the 50% damage reduction for almost forever.
Inaros isn't built for power... it's built for stalling and outlasting the enemy... giving it some boost to power would help it fit in with the fast paced world of Warframe...
(also as I said in the OP..... Frame tutorials need to be a thing, that alone should clear up a lot of questions and trouble confused allies... but that's another post for another day)
Exactly. Devour is a safe option for healing, but can't burst heal you like your 4 or even your passive. I find way too many people focus on the sand shadows, they are ok and all and to each their own, but they die easily, have a short life span unless you spend way too much time eating, and take considerable energy to make unless you build for it.
Rage fixes all Inaros energy problems. Yes, sandstorm is more designed towards panic situations rather than dps. I think it's weird how many people try to make it seem like a dps ability.
One can say that about a lot of warframes though. Nidus can't build stacks efficiently on exterminate, frost can't abuse amazing zone control on exterminate, etc. Some frames are more suited for different game modes than others. Inaros can be a quick mission frame, you just have to rely on weapons. Also it helps to use mechanics like charging your 4 while gliding and getting arcane graces so you don't have to worry about your HP as much. Then when it comes to sortie missions or higher end survival/defense missions, then Inaros is in his perfect setting. Frames shouldn't be changed or buffed simply because their strengths are more obvious in some missions than others.
Tutorials, actual number releases from DE, something.
-
Inaros main here, and I have to disagree with you except on one part in general, the only thing Inaros needs is clarity. Anything more and he would become unquestionably the strongest frame in the game.
Devour is NOT Inaros's lifeblood at all. Just because it heals you and gives you invulnerability does not make it the best healing he has, rather it's the SAFEST healing. It is not designed to deal large amounts of damage at all, it actually has a weird mechanic where increasing power strength seemingly lowers the life span of sand shadows (possibly a bug, but we don't know because DE hasn't released numbers on Inaros). There is a way to get sand shadows without having to eat your enemy to death, though I have tested it so many times and have not found what triggers it. Sometimes I can make it happen easily, other times never. The only thing I know is that it needs (at 100% eff) 50 energy to initially cast, and consumes 25 energy when making a shadow. Sand shadows have terrible scaling and simply are more akin to the "cherry" rather than the "ice cream". Don't focus on sand shadows. Use it as an emergency heal or a "I don't want to deal with this nox for the next minute or so".
Sandstorm is not designed to deal damage akin to Equinox. Rather it is better used as a "panic" button or as a method to spread your 4 around. It takes too much mod space for rather not great results. Frames aren't meant to do EVERYTHING. Loki has no innate way to clear mass hordes of enemies, but it would not be a wise idea to give him one.
Scarab swarm is one of the best abilities in the game, underused? Probably. Though that is because 95% of people who ever play Inaros just focus on "sand shadows" or "pocket covert lethality" Inaros.
The main part I do agree on though is clarity. Extremely few people will ever use an friendly Inaros's 2 to heal themselves, so some indicator would be nice. Maybe something as simple as a small icon above their heads. Not a direct change, but it would be great if DE would release the actual numbers on Inaros's sand shadows. As it is right now, it's a guessing game to how they work. 3 is a bit energy heavy, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing when everything else doesn't take much. 4 could use some sort of indicator to tell everyone when they are being healed by 4. Most important though, 4 needs a CC duration timer. You can see your bonus armor in both the top right and bottom right corners of your screen. However there is no indicator to how long your 4 CC last unless you don't actually have the buff. Simply replace one of the buff indicators to reflect how much time is left on your 4 CC. Also it currently works where casting your 4 multiple times doesn't reset the CC duration, rather it just spreads it more. I am hesitant to say change it so that it is refreshable because then you could pseudo-stun lock huge hordes or enemies. Though other frames can do that, idk, just seems like that could easily be insanely broken.
-
So after playing around with the argonak and enjoying myself quite a bit, I started thinking back to some of the other different mode weapons and what makes them weak or strong. If you look at the euphona prime, it's slug form has amazing crit stats, and in pellet form amazing status. Both of these stats are so strong that it can fully utilize a crit build, a status build, or a hybrid build.
Now look at the stradavar. It's full auto mode has only 28 total damage, 15% cc, 2.0x cd, and 5% status chance. It's semi-auto mode has 50 total damage, 20% cc, 2.0x cd, and 15% status. The issue with the stradavar is that one mode is simply flat out superior to the other with maybe exception to taking down nullifier bubbles.
Then comes the argonak which boasts great base damage, a semi-auto mode focused on crit, and a full auto on status. Yet overall is still not an amazing weapon. In one case, it needs crit, but the other wants status. Thankfully it deals a lot of slash damage so it can be ok against high armor units, but each mode would be better off with different mod combinations. So while I was testing out some other options with a friend of mine, we came to an idea.
What if certain 'mode' weapons like the stradavar, the hind, and the argonak, had some mod slots that were unique to each mode? Example, the argonak's semi-auto mode works much better with viral damage as an element because it is more focused on getting crits and slash procs rather than shredding armor if it had corrosive. The full auto works better with corrosive since the high status chance and high fire rate will allow it to quickly strip armor. So imagine if 6 of the mod slots were shared between both modes, but then each mode has 2 separate slots unique to that mode. So you could mod your argonak with the standard mods and a toxic mod on the shared side, then add a primed cryo rounds and another mod to boost your semi-auto mode, and at the same time add a dual stat electric and fire rate onto your full-auto mode to make it an armor shredder. You still would only be able to have 1 riven and 1 mod of the same type, so no double vital sense.
The stradavar needs attention overall as one mode is simply just far weaker, the hind doesn't feel as bad but would definitely benefit from this change, and the argonak would be a fantastic generalist weapon. Weapons like the euphona prime that have the stats to support all builds and still be fantastic would be exempt.
Just a thought, I know this has a 99.99% chance of never occuring, but still interesting to think about some of the possibilities if this was added in.
-
37 minutes ago, (PS4)Fenrushak said:
Not trolling, I promise. I've always been bored by him, and I just wanted to throw out some questions that I find myself asking while playing Inaros, and I feel like his own kit is made redundant by itself.
Regarding his 1:
With that amount of health, why does he even need a Blind attack at all?If his Blind attack opens them to finisher, which heal him, why did they even put healing on the Blind attack at all, especially when its so ineffective by comparison?
Regarding his 2:
If he is already a ridiculously tough warframe, so why give him a power that makes him useless to the squad, but invincible to harm in the meantime?
If his passive already restores his health, why would he have such a slow health drain/gain power in the first place, when it just means he wont be helping his squad?
If he can instantaneously one shot any enemy that he has blinded at any level, why would he need to summon sand shadows that scale with enemy level?
If its the sand shadows, I dont need them at low levels, and if its in higher levels, I become useless for several minutes to make them, so what drives me to use this, over his 1 power?
Regarding his 3:
If his 1st power essentially turns off enemies while Blinded, why would I want to reduce my movement, and disable my own attacks instead for the ability to ragdoll enemies?
If his 1 opens enemies up to infinitely scaling damage, why would I instead deal only 500 damage, while leaving myself open to taking damage?
Regarding his 4:
Why can a frame with so much health also enhance his armor at no serious cost to energy?Why make use of the healing of this ability, when it sacrifices your tremendous armor, and you can heal with your 1 instead?
Regarding his health:
Dont get me wrong, I hate shields and all, but literally everything he can do, could easily be done with the same level of health as Ash and Nidus, but would be a bit less broken. The amount of health he has is absolutely superfluous, especially since its the most powerful type of defense in the game: Health. Shields are terrible by comparison, in that they are weak against three damage types, they are bypassed by three damage types, and only gains a bonus against two damage types, one of which isnt used by a single enemy in game. Meanwhile, health, as the most powerful, has total access to rage, and while they are weak vs three different damage types, all of them can be mitigated.I mean, he's kind of like the Crocubot of Warframe. His power is he fell into a giant vat of redundancy.
*typing furiously*
Anyway, long story short, NO. Inaros is arguably one of the strongest frames in the entire game. Easily top 3 and in my personal opinion the strongest.
To talk about your points, 1. Inaros has 200 base armor, while his HP is incredibly high, his effective HP is not nearly as high as other frames. His 1 is a strong CC that opens up enemies for finishers and has a small "damage vamp" that heals him. It works amazing with one of his passives that heals him whenever he kills an enemy with a finisher. The small heal is to balance out that Inaros is shieldless. When other frames take damage, their shields can regen. Inaros on the other hand has no shields, and it naturally doesn't regen. So each of his abilities heals him depending on power strength to make up for this.
2. You are thinking of the ability in too small of a manner. With decent duration, you can lock down an enemy for over a minute. So those level 100 sortie bursas and noxs become much easier to deal with. The heal is not unique to Inaros! If he uses 2 on an enemy, ANYONE can come and heal off it. Since whoever is healing from it is immobile, they make you invincible so you can't get gimped. Also the heal is based on your power strength. So if you have overextended then your heals will be less noticeable. It is a great way to panic heal when you start taking more damage than expected. As for the sand shadows, that is easy. DON'T FOCUS ON THEM. If you are using 2 just for shadows, then it's no wonder why you think it sucks. Sand shadows do not scale with duration. Also there is a way to use 2, and to kill the enemy by other means and still get a shadow. His 2 has a ton of power, the sand shadows are just an additional perk.
3. Again, you are thinking too simple. Inaros is NOT a dps oriented warframe. He is a battle healer with absurd amounts of CC. His 3 is best used as a panic button. If you need to revive an ally in the middle of a huge crowd of level 200 enemies, its a great way to disperse them and break up their attacks while you or someone else revives them. If you play Inaros enough, then it is absurdly powerful when used with your 4. Hit a large group of enemies with your 4, then toss them across the entire room. You will have a field of "mines" that cause your 4 to spread like wild fire which leaves healing fields everywhere that stack.
4. 200 base armor... even Excal has 225, chroma 350(?), and valkyr 600 and valkyr p 700. When fully charged, it only increases his armor by his BASE amount. So even if you have armor mods and buffs, his 4 fully charged only grants an additional 200 armor on top of whatever you have. Also when you have to drain close to or over 50% of your HP and channel it to gain what accounts for a small armor buff, I'm not sure how that's an issue costing no energy. The healing from your 4 depends on the number of enemies affected by it, your power strength, is shared among all allies, last significantly longer than 1, and spreads on it's own. Different abilities are better in some cases than others.
It seems to me that you simply lack experience overall let alone with playing Inaros. Health is nice, but naturally can't regen on it's own. Frames with low shields often have some other form to regain HP since their HP will be taking most of the damage. The one exception is Chroma but that is because his buffs can boost his armor to absurd levels.
Inaros is FAR from a bad frame. Inaros's one problem is clarity. Ask 100 warframe players to tell you everything they know about Inaros's abilities and only 3 will be able to tell you everything. Even the warframe wiki doesn't say everything! Your lack of experience and knowledge is what is holding back your experience with Inaros.
Soloing sortie level bosses is EASY with a large number of frames. Inaros without any abilities or arcane grace is probably harder than most other frames in that case even. Since you have no way to regen your HP outside of weapons, you basically have a limit to the number of hits you can take. With abilities, then I can solo any sortie level boss with any frame, and I have done a huge number of times. There is even a youtuber who does it.
You just need to play the game more and get more experience. Do that and you will have a better understanding of HP/CC in general and how it's more/less valuable than shields.
-
8 hours ago, jedifurby said:
First of all, POE is not for new players. if you only have earth unlocked you dont have tenno access, which means you are useless in everyway to a team on the plains.
2nd you dont need plains to progress anywhere. It's self sustaining
Even DE said that it was oriented towards newer players. They even changed Gara to require 2(?) orokin cells instead of kuva because people were saying that newer players don't have easy access to that. Also when you were doing Gara's quest, the enemies didn't even reach level 10. Even if you are doing the most difficult bounties, the enemies don't go past level 70 (haven't faced an eidolon while at that level so they probably will be higher).
-
Anything to minimize going into a crowded laggy relay.
-
5 hours ago, ShikiRen said:
That would be fine, if they didn't still have that inane mechanic of "2nd stage zoom = bigger buffs".
I wouldn't change the current buffs, just increase the second zoom level.
-
Nope. Unless you count opening doors on LoR by yourself. Then yes.
-
I agree, the huge reduction to the secondary zoom makes no sense. Even at 60m the targets are not all that big now. I think DE needs to revert all the changes to the second level of zoom while keeping the first reduced. That way one can use the first zoom for mid range, and the second for long range. I want to be able to pick off shots at 300m+.
-
So after playing on PoE for a while, there are some aspects that I think should be addressed. My current computer could run WF with about mid level graphics, but PoE has a large number of issues that make it incredibly laggy and visually unappealing.
1. The entire plains are alive. Even on the lowest graphic setting, every single grass clump, bush, tree, water, everything is moving. Normally this isn't an issue in the typical match since normally you are in a fairly small room. However in PoE, it is so vast and expansive that it becomes distracting and eats up lower performing computers. I had to drop my settings to absolute minimum to get a decent FPS. To help people with computers that are struggling, I think the plant movements should be optional.
2. Why are there so many explosions? The tusk bombard, heavy gunner, hellion, flying enemies, and some turrets all shoot exploding rounds, some from quite far away. What this creates is nothing short of a visual nightmare. Explosion graphics simply are bigger and lasting far too long. Having so many explosions on screen that leave lingering effects for so long not only hinders FPS but also provides a setting where you can't really enjoy anything due to being constantly bombarded. I think the size of the explosions should be reduced and they need to last for a shorter time.
3. Relays are nice, but some people want to play alone. If you go visit an actual relay, you will find that there are some people there, but usually not many. When baro comes around though, the number of people jumps up and can cause lag issues. In Cetus, you don't actually interact with other random people around you. So why are people forced to endure lag when all they want to do is play alone or with their friends? Normal relays are not designed for people to routinely come back to or spend any significant time there (unless baro is in town). So in relays you typically only have a small crowd due to people leaving just as quickly as they come. Cetus is the exact opposite, players will be spending far more time there than any relay. Could you imagine the nightmare it would be if everyone had to share the same orbiter? Cetus should give players the option of having their own private instances. This will help make Cetus far more enjoyable and immersible.
4. Sniper zoom reduction went a bit too far. PoE is absolutely massive, and I understand the reduction to the first zoom level. However, why to the second or third? I have seen multiple enemies (not just marksmen) shooting me from quite a huge distance away. The second or third zoom on snipers should be significantly farther than what it is now. The first zoom reduction was nice as it made it much smoother to use mid range, however now that we have actual long range distances, it feels like you will never have much opportunity to utilize snipers past 300m. The secondary zoom should be changed back while the first zoom stays the same.
5. Random ammo from ammo stations. If you are playing solo, you can only have 2 types of fire arms on you. The ammo stations provide ammo that you can't necessarily use. If you bring a bow and pistol, they might give you a bunch of shotgun and rifle ammo. I think what you get should be weighted based on what weapons you have and what % of ammo you are missing, or should instead simply restore a set % of your ammo.
In general, it feels like PoE is simply being excessive. If it was toned down a bit to be less visually distracting, then that alone would be a huge improvement. Providing the players with private instances of Cetus would allow people to enjoy the PoE without having to experience lag or FPS issues. This is just a general quick overview and I haven't put too much thought into it. Just some obvious details that could be improved.
-
Absolute tankiest without abilities alone? Inaros by a land slide. Even more so if you have arcane grace and at that point you can take obscene amounts of damage while doing absolutely nothing.
Tankiest frame for a melee build that isn't reliant on abilities? Valkyr. You can do an eternal war build which uses one ability and it will not run out unless you are unable to kill enemies.
Inaros fully built could tank more damage than Valkyr, but Valkyr has an amazing ability with an amazing augment and crazy high armor. So Valkyr will always have higher damage output but Inaros when properly built will be harder to bring down.
-
Any kind of indicator for his 4 would be amazing. Give Inaros an actual CC timer on his 4 instead of showing the bonus armor twice (once on the top right along with other buffs and another above the actual ability icon) and then any kind of indication that shows you are in range of the healing.
2... most people just don't know that they can use it to regen if they aren't inaros. Not sure how one could make that more apparent, maybe an icon above their head showing they are affected by 2 and can be eaten?
[PC] Beasts of the Sanctuary: Sanctuary Onslaught Feedback Megathread
in Missions & Levels
Posted
Done and easy. Never felt in danger of going down, although my teammates started going down on zone 7 (bad omens indeed). Compared to Mot survival for 2+ hours, the damage is nothing.