[[Mission Concept] Archwing Plunder]

On 4/10/2016 at 6:50 PM, TARINunit9 said:

So you're basically suggesting this? I'd be down for this:
<snip>

Similar to that, yes.  But what those videos show is more along the lines of the 'speed run' mission flow; here's a quick flow diagram (it's not a proper flowchart).

Spoiler

Basically a straight-up assault.  It's perfectly fine to do this, mind you; you just run into the problem of 1) being locked out until the reset, since the ship will send out its transmission to stay away if the jammer's not activated, and 2) potentially failing the mission if you engage too early and the ship's engines are still at high velocity, meaning it's much quicker for it to reach 100% speed and leave the area.  Note that destroying the launch bays is of course a non-recommended option here since you're probably more concerned with keeping the ship from leaving.

Compare this, then, to the 'ideal' mission flow diagram:

Spoiler

This is what makes the Plunder mission type different from the videos you linked (and, I think, a lot of Archwing/space battle ideas in general): it rewards proper execution - specifically, waiting to activate the jammer until the ship is slowed down and defending it from attack - with the option to repeat the mission type.  It's like having a void key that duplicates itself on a successful run.  However, you can still get another chance to try again each day, until you've mastered the concept and can pull off a heist without a transmission going out.

Note also here that destroying the launch bays is the recommended option (though still not required); without escorts, the jammer can't be destroyed and you can Plunder again once the mission is complete.  Obviously, the engines will be a priority, but if you've waited for them to completely go offline, they shouldn't pose a problem.

[[Mission Concept] Archwing Plunder]

10 minutes ago, Magneu said:

Seems like a more involved version of current Deception, but (a) Archwing (which is always welcome to me), and (b) more rewarding. Rewards would need to be good (bundles of R5 cores, large resource caches, rare mods, etc). Random minibosses (enter bay, Grineer mech is waiting with mini-guns spooled up to say hello), Archwing specific modifications (solar flares, patrol ships, etc), sounds good to me.

To be honest, this idea initially started as little more than a way for players to actually select what resource they wanted to get, and steal it.  Because they're greedy scavengers and do not care about Jordas.  So the rewards being large is definitely in-line with my original concept.

Although transitioning between space and terrestrial combat would be cool, my intent for this was to make it solely an Archwing mission; something relatively simple, at first.  Other people have gone before me in postulating awesome transitional ideas; this isn't meant to fit in the same territory.  Having said that, there's definitely room (see the edited section) for surprise minibosses, and I would really like that - but I'd expect them to be deployed as a first resort, rather than a last, especially if the ship captain savvies what's going on and decides to lay all his cards on the table at once.  Might even keep the engines alive long enough for him to escape...

Now, a mech crawling on the outside of the hull?  And hull integrity being a thing, so you have to place your shots carefully or else risk losing the cargo to space?  That has some definite promise.  (Even if it's a little more complex than I was going for, and opens up trolling potential.  Hrm.)

[wishes from a new player]

Welcome!  I hope you continue to have fun.  :)

1. Putting previous Prime equipment in the vault removes it from the drop tables, meaning that there's less crowding on them.  If you were trying to get a single item, and no Prime had ever been vaulted, your chances of getting that single item would be considerably lower than they are now (in theory; it's still fairly low, though).

2. An exchange or auction house is very much desired by a fair number of players, if the forums are to be believed.  Personally, I'd like to see one as well.  While you wait and hope for the next patch to add this functionality, your next best bet is most likely http://warframe.market - while not a Digital Extremes site, it's fairly commonly used and should give you a fair idea of what to expect, pricing-wise.  You might even be able to message someone and set up a trade that way, instead of dealing with the text scroll in Trading chat.  I've used it myself to pick up a few Prisma and Prime items, though I didn't register with the site - I merely looked at the information.

Again, welcome to the community!  Here's hoping you enjoy your stay.

[[Mission Concept] Archwing Plunder]

3 minutes ago, Homer87 said:

As far as the NPC that you talk to to initiate the quest - What if we used the scanner on our landing crafts, then talked to Ordis about what was picked up on it? That could initiate the mission.

That actually would work well as a method of randomizing a mission.  Then you'd get a Simaris-esque 'do you accept this as your Plunder target?' prompt, and the potential rewards.  Or the actual rewards; say, half of the cargo is known and half isn't, so at least part of what you're going for is in fact a guaranteed drop on success, whether it's 800 plastids or an Ivara chassis BP or whatever.

But you'd still have to furnish the jammer yourself.  They don't grow on trees.  They'd cost at least 10 control modules, so there'd finally be a use for all of those...

[[Mission Concept] Archwing Plunder]

Google Define says this of the word ‘Plunder’ used as a verb: ‘steal goods from (a place or person), typically using force and in a time of war or civil disorder.’

Originally this was called ‘Archwing Raid’, though that could’ve been confused with either an 8-person mission or the old smash-and-grab mission type from ancient times, which this vaguely resembles if you squint a little.

BASIC CONCEPT

Spoiler

Take your Archwing to the designated coordinates and lie in wait for a transport ship to show up.  When it does, disable it (so as not to damage the cargo), rob it blind, and then destroy it, leaving no trace of your presence - and no warning for other ships to avoid the area.

JUSTIFICATION/LORE

Spoiler

We maintain the balance of power between factions - but we do so quietly.  A ship here, a ship there; neither faction will grow too powerful too quickly, particularly if certain high-value transports of interest are plundered.  And accidents do happen in the depths of space; if no one remains to tell the tale, then it can remain a mystery.  For a time, at any rate.

Tenno, material wealth that fails to reach its destination would better serve you and your clan, would it not?  Choose your targets wisely.  Perhaps Cephalon Simaris may aid you in that - for a price, as always.

PURPOSE

Spoiler

1) (Foremost) A way to give Archwing some much-needed content, and more mission types.
Needs no further elaboration.

2) A way to acquire resources in significant quantities, or acquire rare items.
Transport ships traveling between planets or satellites would generally be carrying much-needed resources in significant quantities.  Either that, or a hoard of valuable mods, new Warframe parts, or anything else that needs to be shuttled from one place to the next as quietly as possible - which is why they’re out in the middle of nowhere to begin with.

3) A way to have content that varies a little, and gives players a way to target their efforts more precisely.
As alluded to in the lore section - if you’re wanting to plunder a transport that’s carrying, say, a shipment of oxium, talk to Simaris and see what he wants in exchange for insider information.  Or maybe not Simaris; maybe Darvo, or some other character.  Whoever can give you a lead, in exchange for something else.  And it’s not 100%, either; things can change.  (But it’s more likely than getting lucky on a randomized Plunder mission, if that would even be on the map - or somewhere between it.)

4) YAR HAR FIDDLE-DE-DEE, BEING A PIRATE IS ALRIGHT WITH ME
DO WHAT YOU WANT ‘CAUSE A PIRATE LIVES FREE, YOU ARE A PIRATE

MISSION FLOW

Spoiler

Note: Plunder missions are always freespace.  Potentially have more large structures instead of just asteroids, like an area to get out of the sunlight and let the anti-radiation shielding recharge for a while.  Just some variety there, but it’s not hugely important; the important thing is that it’s not set in an enclosed area.  These are isolated, lonely places - perfect for quick ambushes.

Detailed Version

1) On mission start, Lotus (or other entity as appropriate, hereafter just ‘Lotus’) reminds players about the communications jammer and how to activate it.  (This will prevent the enemy from sending out transmissions that they’re being attacked, but must be defended from the transport’s escorts.)

2) Transport ship arrives on the map via void warp or however ships travel (I can’t seem to find good solid lore on this).  If the ship is attacked between now and 3), you won’t automatically fail - however, a transmission timer starts (we’ll say 5-10 seconds, may need adjustment).  If it reaches zero, the transmission goes out - and you’re locked out of doing any Plunder missions until the next daily reset, because a) that location will be avoided now and b) your contact will be irritated that you wasted the opportunity, and won’t be inclined to give you another shot at it.  (Easily countered by simply activating the jammer when you see the timer, or waiting for the prompt in 3).)

3) Transport ship gets into position and stops (0% speed, engines offline).  Lotus prompts the player to switch on the jammer, which is as easy as flying next to it and holding X.  If the jammer is activated early, the only problem is that the engines won’t be offline, giving less time to complete the objective.

4) Once the jammer goes active, the transport ship starts trying to escape.  This means two things: getting back up to 100% speed (restarting engines if you waited for them to go offline) and destroying the jammer.  All transport ships have escorts, of course, and the moment the jammer goes on, escorts are launched - and will continue to be launched until a) the launch bays are destroyed (potentially), b) the finite number of escorts to launch reaches zero, or c) the ship reaches 100% speed and exits the map.

5) At this point there are now two objectives: defend the jammer from attack (arguably optional, particularly if you're near the daily reset anyway) and disable the ship.  Ships could certainly have several different designs within each faction, but they need to have at least two primary features: launch bays for the escorts to spawn from, and multiple engines to target and destroy.  Defending the jammer is simple, though it's likely not a very sturdy piece of equipment (sensitive electronic tech rarely is).  Disabling the ship is also relatively simple: destroy the engine object.  Each engine destroyed makes it slower for the ship to reach its maximum 100% speed, which is required for it to exit the map.  If the jammer is destroyed during this phase of the mission, the countdown will commence, but this time nothing will be able to stop it.  That's what you get for leaving it alone!  Jammers are expensive!  (Maybe you have to craft your own... hmmm...)

6) If the ship reaches 100% speed, the mission is a failure.  That's the only failure condition (other than dying and forfeiting, obviously).  Once all the engine objects are destroyed, whether or not the launch bays are, the mission is a success (we'll assume you're capable of performing mop-up duty and not force you to kill every last ship).  Move to a cutscene of you and/or your squad getting into the cargo bay and rejoicing over your loot.  Then move to a second cutscene again of the ship blowing up in the background as you fly off victoriously.

Short (ideal) Version

1) Mission Start.  'Hey don't activate the jammer until the ship's stopped.'  "Thanks spacemom."

2) Ship pops into map and glides to a stop.

3) 'Now would be a good time... to JAM.'  "Thanks Horatio spacemom."

4) Activate jammer.  'We're being jammed!  Launch all the things!  Get us out of here NOW!  Destroy that jammer!  <Angry/panicked faction-appropriate voice acting!>'

5) Defend jammer and start plinking the engines with your Velocitus, haha.

6) Engines all gone?  Crack open the piñata!  Cool guys Tenno don't look at explosions.

OUTSIDE THE MISSION MECHANICS

Spoiler

You can't host a Plunder mission without a communications jammer in your inventory, but only one is required per mission regardless of squad size.  Much like Void missions, if the host leaves, the mission's over.  The jammer blueprint will be purchasable from the market, and reusable, and use a minimum of 10 control modules - but it should only take 2-4 hours to build.  Maybe for larger [boss] targets there'd be a more advanced version of the jammer that's more expensive and takes longer to build, say 8-12 hours.

For random missions, you can use the scanner on your Orbiter, which will result in a Simaris-style 'Accept this as your Plunder target?' prompt with the rewards displayed [suggested by @Homer87].  Not all rewards will be visible; might be "20 R5 Cores + ??? mod" or "5,000 Polymer Bundles + ??? resources", or something similar (yes those numbers are correct; if anything, they're too small).  Random missions can only be completed once per daily reset, much like Simaris's scan target quest.

For specifically targeted missions, you can talk to Cephalon Simaris (or potentially Darvo or other NPCs) and either use standing or credits or something else to purchase 'Plunder Target: Plastids' or 'Plunder Target: Ivara (Chassis)' - bearing in mind that you might not get that particular reward, you just have a higher chance of it (for resources, at least half the reward would be the targeted resource, and perhaps for Warframes it'd be 50% chance of targeted part, 25% each of the other two parts).  Justification for the variance being that data's not always accurate or up to date, unlike what you just now heard on the scanner for the random missions.  These missions are repeatable so long as you're not locked out for the day.

Even though only the host is using a jammer, the daily lockout for letting a transmission go out unguarded applies to all squad members; everyone is at least partially responsible for ensuring mission success.  It's a full lockout, too; if you let Darvo down, you can be sure Simaris is going to hear about it, and likewise.  That NPC connection, y'know.

OTHER NOTES

Spoiler

So, that ship you thought was a transport ship?  It's, uh, actually infested.  Like, really infested.  Like... 'hope-you-like-[mini]boss-fights' infested.
Oh dear.  What have I gotten you into, Operator?

The transport ship's engines are online, but they're not trying to escape.  In fact, they look ready to tear you apart!
'You'll not be taking my precious cargo without a fight, Betrayers!  I wanted to test these new model escorts anyway!'

I've probably forgotten a thing or two.  I'll add them later if need be.  (Edit count: 1)

[Level idea: Tower Defense... no, the other kind.]

10 minutes ago, sir_deadlock said:

The concerns about trolls and noobs is legit. However, those problems persist in defenses now regardless. A skilled player often figures out the endurance of any random group after the initial few waves and decides whether it's wiser to extract at an earlier point or if they themselves can carry the group.

Lore-wise, the grineer and corpus are already allowing team-ups with the tenno against the infestation in most infestation outbreaks, so that alone should be enough of an ongoing reason to team up. And hey, when in doubt for a reason, the corpus like credits and the grineer take orders. If it's too unlikely to get them to work together on the same map, deciding if you want to build with corpus or grineer structures could be an option (like deciding which faction you're siding with).

As to how we got into such a controlled bottleneck situation; these could include breaches in hull structures, leading the infested towards an easily defended room or generally knowing an attack is coming. Maybe taking a mission to *ahem* clean an infested ship, thereby opening more ground to build on with every successful wave until eventually a hive is destroyed and the mission ends.

Stealth... the game as-is has a ways to go before it's a really good stealth game. But historically ninja do not always have the advantage of stealth and must be able to fight in the open. Their advantage then becomes traps, general deception and adept skill on the battlefield. If you think about it, we're not even able to dress ourselves in the empty corpus suits we find hanging around, so there's room to go for stealth. But loki would still be loki, if you want to stand on top of a structure and fire down at the enemy, that would be an option.

 You get stealth where you can if you really want it.

 I certainly hope it would break up the monotony too. If nothing else, a person could spend all their resources on personal buffs, neglecting towers entirely and become a god. That sounds fun, right?

All good points, and good thinking.  I'm not sure how likely it is to happen, but I'd support it.  (Also I like the idea of Grineer-supported TD and Corpus-supported TD having different options for construction; that adds more variety.)

+1 for a well-thought-out response to my knee-jerk reaction.  :)

Edit: perhaps a better name for the mission type, though, to avoid confusion.  'Killing Ground' comes to mind immediately, as does 'Killzone'...

[Level idea: Tower Defense... no, the other kind.]

I was initially against this as a knee-jerk reaction, but I'd like to give it a better review than just 'nope'.  TD games are time-killers, and don't really hold a lot of attraction for me (though I do have Sanctum and its sequel on Steam, and they were at least a little better than your typical flash game).

So two things immediately come to mind:
1) multiplayer, and
2) lore.

If you run with a group that works together and builds with the same goal in mind, this could work out really well and be a lot of fun, I think!  But what if you have one troll who completely ruins your build plans - or, hopefully more likely, a pickup group that doesn't communicate perfectly or doesn't understand the current TD meta?  TD games are notorious for heavily penalizing unbuild/rebuild, costwise (to incentivize proper planning, of course) so a little mistake could make things a lot more difficult and cause a lot of frustration for everyone involved, whether it was intentional or not (and the accusations will likely fly regardless).

Now, lore-wise: I'd agree that the infestation is the most likely threat that would coerce the factions into working together, if only temporarily, but it would have to be a serious threat and something we haven't seen before - since there's nothing currently out there that has prompted that kind of cooperation, if I remember right.  And this is supposed to be a repeatable mission, meaning that these conditions are likely to persist for a while.  What environment and what circumstances are going to force this?  Bear in mind that you're saying either 'we are going to reshape the environment where this infested hazard is with a bunch of traps and such', or 'we are going to funnel the infested threat into an area we've specially prepared to be reshaped as needed'.

Additionally, lore-wise, theoretically (I know it's a bit of a stretch at this point) we're supposed to be all about stealth and trickery and subtlety and the like.  This seems more like it's geared for an all-out assault, and there's no way to play it any other way; it'd be nice if there was an option to do the things we're supposed to be known for doing (and honestly that's part of a much larger gripe).

Overall?  I'd say it's a workable concept, in theory.  If nothing else, it would certainly break up the monotony.

[Dojo Suggestion.]

One, I think this is a good idea just to have accountability for the resources of a clan - particularly if deposit/withdrawal is ever implemented, so clanmates can actually help each other out with their personal wealth.  Some sort of log file would be a good precursor to opening the clan vault for real business in that sense.

Two, your thread title should probably be a little more specific.

[No more lvl up after forma use please]

7 minutes ago, Fifield said:

I'll just repost my existing comment because apparently you missed it first time round.

I didn't miss it; I merely found it unhelpful and disagreed with some of your positions, that's all.  I then took your 'Why would DE want to do that?' question to be legitimate and not rhetorical, and answered in good faith; it seems I was mistaken in doing so.  You've already ascribed motivation and reasoning to the devs in your mind, and nothing I say is going to persuade you otherwise, apparently.

Having said that, I'll go ahead and pull out of this thread before it gets any more heated.

[No more lvl up after forma use please]

4 minutes ago, Fifield said:

Why would DE want to do that?

As evidenced by this thread and others, a less angry playerbase, perhaps.

It's not the time spent leveling that's the problem here - it's the time spent re-leveling a weapon that you have already maxed out and now are forced to drop back to nothingness.  If the loss incurred by this design is the frustrated players, what then is the gain?  More time spent re-leveling means... what, precisely?

You could say that you're required to do lower-level missions, and that helps out newer players by providing match partners, but with affinity-sharing that's simply not true; you can simply equip it in your off-slot and kill with your other weapon in an endless mission somewhere (in my case, one of my fifty bajillion T1 Defense/Survival keys) while your teammates do the re-leveling for you.  The only end this really accomplishes - as far as I can tell - is temporarily preventing you from running absolute-maximum-level content where your entire kit needs to be fully functional.

I'm not sure whether that's the intent of this design choice, or whether it's simply 'this is the way we made it and we haven't changed it (yet)'.  I am hoping it's the latter.  But again, without a dev perspective, I'm in the dark as much as the next player.

[No more lvl up after forma use please]

To steer this back to the original topic as quickly as possible: you're not wrong in saying that it's a frustrating grind to relevel after Forma use.  It is, especially multiple times.

@BlackCoMerc mentioned, in this post, the idea of Forma resets being tied to your mastery rank to give it more presence in the game.  So instead of resetting your weapon to unranked, if you're MR2, your weapon starts at level 2.  If you've been playing the game forever and you're MR20, you Forma your weapon and it only drops back to level 20.

Not only would it reduce the time to level, it would also provide another benefit of increasing one's mastery rank.  It's not a perfect fix, but I think it's a little more likely to be implemented than no reset at all.

... But honestly, I'd be interested in knowing what the justification is - at this point in the evolution of the game - for forcing a reset.  Would it not actually be even more profitable if Forma were easier to use, if you could just jam them into your weapon at level 30?  Perhaps it's the idea of 'too much power too fast'.  A dev perspective on this matter would definitely come in handy, because I don't know the rationale here - I can only guess.

[Hyekka is just ridiculous.]

4 hours ago, aerosoul1337 said:

Those video are U18.8.1 (both Rhino videos).

My mistake - based on the posting time of the videos and my guess at how long it took to create and post them, I thought it was pre-patch.

33 minutes ago, Heniker said:

Another thing I observed is that their hits and animation aren't matched. There isn't really a specific point of time in their animation when damage takes place.

Hyekkas appear to have either one long continuous damage instance with insanely fast damage ticks, or multiple, rapid fire damage instances as soon as their attack animations start all the way till it ends. I have noticed this by slowing a Hyekka down using Nova, and just walk right into them and magically get downed. Essentially, there is no 'danger has passed' moment for Hyekkas.

Grineer Scorpion for comparison, damages you mid swing, when the blade actually strikes. Not before when she raises the blade, and not at the end of the swing when the blade is all the way down.

Probably needs further testing, my connection was smooth when that happened, but I wasn't the host, so lag/network issues could still have played a part in this.

See, this is the kind of thing I like - not random insults or invective thrown at the devs or other players (as elsewhere ITT and others), but legit hard data (previous videos included, of course).  Research like this that exposes the issues, and offers comparison to what the expected/current/'control' state is elsewhere, is pleasant to see as opposed to the usual anecdotal evidence that tends to populate forums (admittedly, some topics don't need much more than that - but this appears to).

Thank you all for your efforts; this has been a very enlightening thread, and a nice break from the usual gripefest.  Mostly.  Here's hoping the devs see this and shed some light on the subject.

[On Grineer Cryptosecurity And Pets]

3 hours ago, HarrodTasker said:

The only other explanation would be that some sort of Coyboy Bebop data-dog situation is going on and the Grineer have successfully made a cloned army of hacker dogs, but I challenge you to say that out loud with a straight face.

I couldn't even say it in my head without snorting.

All I can imagine is Spacemom's voice acting.  'Tenno, the Grinner have successfully made a cloned army of ha- hacker d-' *pfffff* 'I'm s-sorry Tenno, the connection's breaking up!'  *sound of muffled laughter*

To answer the question though: it's a gameplay thing, one (obviously).  Two, the analogy you use doesn't quite reflect the standing of a military working dog; if you assume the level of breeding and special training necessary for an animal - any animal - to be actually functional in combat, and more of an asset than a liability, there's no reason they wouldn't have some sort of special tech installed (to protect that investment) that could be used to interface with the computer systems.  If they can be trained to attack, they can be trained to defend.  Kubrows are pretty smart, after all.

The real question is why we can't send our kubrows to go cap nodes.

[Option to leave mission if left solo...]

I can't think of anything wrong with this - a simple, elegant fix to an annoying problem.

Excellent QoL idea; +1.

[Energy Leech, or: How I learned to stop worrying and just play Frost]

6 hours ago, djternan said:

Having your energy constantly drained to 0 ruins a large part of what makes Warframe better than the generic shooter.  

This.  A thousand times, this.  If I wanted to play a generic shooter, I wouldn't be here.

Nullification at least you can escape or avoid, to some extent, but there's no escaping a swarm of energy leeches.  It does, in fact, ruin the play experience - not that I have to be able to press 4 and win all the time, but when I can't use any powers even after collecting multiple energy orbs because I've been overwhelmed by a stack of energy leeches that I simply can't kill fast enough, I might as well just ignore powers entirely and bring the frame with the highest armor and health and shields.  And at that point I've become just another bland 3PS character in a gaudy suit.

[Hyekka is just ridiculous.]

I'd be very interested to see some post-18.8.1 data on this, and compare how well the hotfix has fixed the issues at hand.  Numbers don't lie, after all.

[Map alert symbol for Baro]

I can't think of any reason for this not to be implemented.

It seems like a relatively simple thing to add, and it'd cut down on the stream of 'hey where's Baro at'.  No need to waste players' time hunting or asking; and realistically, Baro seems like the type that would flamboyantly announce his arrival, so there's no reason not to have some sort of map notification when and where he's active.

Great idea; +1.

[[Archwing] Interception - AI behavior/capping]

Enemy behavior in Archwing Interception, specifically when capturing points, is frustrating, particularly when compared to player requirements.

For a player to capture a location, just as in terrestrial Interception, they're required to remain within a certain distance of the tower.  However, enemies do not have this same requirement; once they are close enough to start capping, they can move off as far as they like.

On numerous occasions - and I have every piece of non-mod loot that drops from Uranus-Caelus, so I've played a fair bit - I have seen a tower start to be capped, fly over to get it in view, only to see a tether stretching off into space... halfway to the next tower, which the capping enemy is flying to.  And when I'm leveling a primary and don't have Velocitus equipped, and I'm either soloing or no one is capable of intercepting the enemy, all I can do is sit there powerlessly as the tower is capped, even if I am sitting right on top if it.  (And yes, I know that's normal.  It's still dumb.)

I'm not sure whether this is intended behavior or not, but the fact that a mob can start capping and immediately fly off into the depths of space, compared to the relatively stationary posture a player has to adopt, is quite frustrating.  It's not impossible to win, obviously - that's not why I'm posting - but that doesn't change the fact that it's patently ridiculous.

[30K CRYOTIC FOR SIBEAR?!?]

1 hour ago, XDemonR said:

Fix it 30k Cryotic or no? By the way, there was a similar story with the other gun, which requires 200 morphics

It's intended to be 30k, as per @[DE]Danielle's comment below.  (Bolding added for emphasis.)

22 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Hey Tenno! 

In light of Sibear's release, we wanted to reassure you that stretch goal crafting is not going to be a common trend for future Tenno reinforcements. The current crafting requirements allow players who have accrued substantial peripheral resources the opportunity to put them to use.

That said, your feedback has been taken into account and will be considered for future weapon releases. Thank you! Thread will now be unlocked. 

 

[Effectively useless mission resources]

Three things in particular:
- Detonite Ampule
- Fieldron Sample
- Mutagen Sample

Originally, when clantech first started being a thing, these were great; they were the building blocks of all clantech items, and you'd go replicate your blueprint and drop ten of your items in and start cooking (and either wait for it or :plat:).  I can actually remember farming these for a little bit, back before I took my year-long hiatus; can you believe it?

These days, the finished products (Detonite Injectors, Fieldron, and Mutagen Masses) are available so frequently as invasion rewards, there's really no reason to use the smaller building blocks to craft them.  So while, yes, the building blocks are used for research purposes, I've got several thousand of each (and I'd have a lot more, but I don't farm much) - and I have literally nothing to use them on that wouldn't be a waste of credits and other resources.  I can't even sell them for a fistful of dollars handful of credits.

I'm tired of my distilling extractors pulling up useless detonite ampules from Saturn.  Tired of seeing them drop in missions.  Tired of seeing them on the star chart.

Some way to actually utilize these - any of the three - would be really nice.  Barring that, just remove them from the drop table, and have an equippable 'scavenger' gear item that has a 10%-ish chance to give you a sample per mob kill or something like that.  (But going any further down that path borders on Fan Concepts territory - ITT I'm just pointing out the situation as I see it.)

Having said all that, this is one player's perspective.  I'm open to hear other viewpoints.

[30K CRYOTIC FOR SIBEAR?!?]

5 minutes ago, notlamprey said:

What some people aren't realizing is that DE needs this kind of negative feedback to keep them from making some really boneheaded decisions. All humans do, because nobody has complete knowledge of anything.

Maybe some of the complaints aren't worded super diplomatically, but saying that "30k Cryotic is too much" is perfectly good feedback. Consider that someone who doesn't want to spend 8, 10, 12 or more hours farming Cryotic (because the "best case" time just isn't a good benchmark) is being asked to pay $10 for this weapon. That's the price, if we're talking non-discounted platinum.

10USD, or your regional equivalent.

I don't blame people for being unhappy with the apparent dilemma of "farm your face off or pay up." It's a fair assumption that many people with jobs and busy schedules might spend an entire week of playtime just trying to get enough Cryotic for this one weapon. The alternative, ten bucks, is a poor value proposition. It feels like a "lose-lose" scenario for a lot of players, and that's what we have to judge DE on.

Not intent, but appearance. That's the way markets work.

I can't possibly upvote this hard enough.

Not only am I one of those people with a job and a busy schedule, but my schedule is also irregular, meaning those bonus weekends?  Yeah, they don't always occur for me.  Sometimes my weekend is Tuesday-Wednesday.  Sometimes it's Wednesday through Friday, if I'm fortunate and get a three-day once in a blue moon (I don't get regular holidays off).  I currently work 2:30 PM to 10:30 PM local time, so I'm leaving shortly - and it probably will take me a week, or more, just for this one weapon, as opposed to those of you who already have it.  And then I'll be back to zero cryotic once again.

Please don't assume that just because everything is fine for you, it's fine for everyone else.  If it was, the thread wouldn't be nearly as long as it is.  I love Warframe, I love playing it, but this is an upsetting situation for more than just me alone - though I believe that point has been made satisfactorily by now.

[30K CRYOTIC FOR SIBEAR?!?]

52 minutes ago, sushidubya said:

Yeah man, it's important to for everyone to remember that this forum is for a video game we all enjoy playing together.  Dunno why there are folks who bring lots of aggression here, but it's not necessary.

It's quite simple, really.

1) Change happens - people already don't like change anyway, but it's a change that Person A finds incredibly frustrating ('I didn't have to spend nearly this much before, wtf')
2) Person A vents on the forums; not necessarily at anyone, initially, but just as a way of expressing their frustration with the change, and to say to the devs 'hey this frustrates me enough that I took the time out of playing/farming/etc. to stop and make a post about it because it bugs me that much'
3) Person B, who isn't at all frustrated by the change for whatever reason ('I already have plenty of resources/plat/leveled that frame to 30, it's not hard') dismisses Person A's frustrated, possibly ranty/heated/incoherent/illogical (we've all been there, haven't we?) post as pointless/unneeded/flat-out wrong, and says as much.  (This is where the breakdown can start.  Not does, not always, but can.)
4) Person A, who again took the time out of their routine to post about something that frustrated them, is understandably upset that their opinions are being dismissed out of hand, and takes this as a personal affront.  Or can.  (This is another place the breakdown can start.)
5) If it's a particularly divisive topic, people start throwing their hats into the ring and siding with Camp A and Camp B.  The more volatile the argument gets, the more it spins out of control.

The problem, ultimately - as I see it - is people refusing to acknowledge that people who disagree with them may in fact have a valid opinion.  But when something enrages you, that kind of objectivity is really difficult to maintain.  (And that's why, ultimately, we still need moderators; because it is human nature to take things personally when it's a personal opinion or personal experience.)

[I think it's time DE introduced John Prodman]

That video is glorious.

17 hours ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

How is this not Alad V and zanuka? Am I missing something?

Looking back at it, that's a fair cop.  If I had to make a distinction, I'd say Alad treats Zanuka more like a pet, getting upset when it's defeated - if I remember the voice quotes - and that's understandable, since the Zanuka Project is his creation.  So the character of the fight should be different; a boss or miniboss should treat their gadget pets as throwaway, mass-produced tech, with bored-sounding VA quotes like 'ah, another defective product' or 'that one will need a redesign' or something along those lines.

Mounted boss battles?  Heck yes.  I mean, not a Juggernaut as that kind of breaks immersion, but say if you had a Hyena/MOA/some sort of hybrid specifically designed to be ridden, and you could knock the boss off of it with a well-timed or well-placed shot - meaning you're fighting two opponents instead of one, but they don't have access to the more dangerous abilities they have when combined.  I'd be down for something like that.  Combination attacks, too, especially one that allows them to remount if it's successful.

[30K CRYOTIC FOR SIBEAR?!?]

So, somewhat in response to all the people that have been so kind as to post their 'I have <x> cryotic this isn't a big deal at all I don't know why you're so butthurt about this':

I took basically a year off from the game for personal and professional reasons, so I have effectively zero cryotic and oxium.  I had to grind my butt off to catch up to all the current clantech research, including Knux, and I've finally built just about everything out there that can be built.  If I had had a larger supply of cryotic, like everyone else apparently has - and like DE apparently assumes all players have - I might have my Imperator Vandal now, but I don't.  And now there's a new weapon out that has higher requirements than literally anything else in the game (at least cryo-wise) just to build, plus it takes a weapon I already have?

I don't have a lot of free time, and I don't want to spend it all grinding.  More accurately, I really don't want to spend every spare moment I have grinding resources 'because the next thing will cost even more'.  That's not cool at all.  Item costs shouldn't be balanced to the veterans who have several hundred thousand of every resource; if they are, we're quickly going to be buried under insane numbers - which will drive a wedge (as it has ITT) between the veterans who see no problem with it, and the new[er] players who are screaming in frustration at the time/effort/luck it takes to comply with the build requirements.  That's no way to build up a community.

Knux cost 20K to research.  Trinity part cost 9K to build.  Maximum, this thing should be 15K, and frankly, even that's pushing it.

I'm going to build it anyway, obviously, but with my schedule it's going to take the better part of a week, if not more.  Not everyone can afford to sink a lot of time into this game, fun as it is.

[Ranking up is PAINFUL!! (Suggestion PLEASE REDO THE Ranking system)]

Just be thankful you actually can train for the MR tests now.  (Though that feature should be more publicized than it is, honestly...)

The tests are fine.  The difficulty isn't linear from test to test by any means; they test different things.  The fact that you can actually practice for your next test now, instead of waiting for the daily reset, eliminates any need for changes making it easier.  Different, perhaps - a better sequence of tests, for one - but not easier.  It is called 'mastery rank' for a reason.

Master the test (or just scrape by, either way, so long as you succeed).  Keep trying, try a few different things; perhaps ask some other veterans for advice, if you want.  But don't take the test until you're prepared for it.