[People are becoming more impatient as of late.]

12 minutes ago, PollexMessier said:

I was just referring pretty much exclusively to the arcanes yeah. I got all the event exclusive stuff and all the curses to fill my clan's gargoyle in a day. But yeah, the arcanes are grindy. I'm trying to get just 4 arcanes out of the lot, and to max them all out I need over 200 runs. And that's WITH me already having half of what I needed to start with. That's Grindy.

Better than getting them the normal way, sure. But for one thing, that's kindof the point or they wouldn't be worth doing the event for at all. But for another, That's not a positive mark on the event, that's a negative mark on grinding them out normally.

It would be literally impossible for me to even engage with the event at all, if I was doing all the weeklies for other stuff that I want. I am doing none of them, and still feel like I probably wont be able to do the event enough to max the only 4 arcanes I'm trying to.

All the extra arcanes you get from the mission is nice tho I'll give you that. But they're not the ones I'm after, and they're just going to serve pissing me off when I roll an arcane I've already maxed out 5 times over from this event while trying to get the netracell exclusive legendary arcanes eventually. Dissolution is a nice system but extremely inefficient, and DE is suspiciously withholding the actual drop rates from it. Which is not something they normally do so it's gotta be bad.

Have you considered...
...
..
.
Trading the ones you get for the ones you want?  With other players? :O

Nobody said you HAD to use the Dissolution system.

Heck, ya don't really need any arcanes whatsoever (though they do help). And Orphix/Eidolons aren't going away, either.  None of this is going away other than the event... in a MONTH...

I don't know why y'all set these arbitrary deadlines and goals, and then get mad at them.

Seriously, let it be casual.  If ya get there, great. If not, you can always trade later. It's really not a big deal.

What Arcane do ya need?  Hek, I might even have some extras you can have, if so.  Don't turn this into a chore, or it's *going* to feel like one.

[People are becoming more impatient as of late.]

10 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

I'm not saying it's a good excuse to be a jerk. But it is certainly contributing to people wanting to rush things when their available time to play the parts of the game they want, and even other games, is constantly being encroached on by weekly chores the devs push on us.

Some people are just going to be jerks in that situation. Sure it's on those people for acting like that. But it's also hugely on DE for producing that environment to begin with. It's not the player's fault the devs put a big ticking clock above their heads.

How does one expect a F2P game to monetize and pay all 400 employees if they don't put *some* pressure in-game on players to make purchases of some sort, some of the time?

I mean, play and grind, or bypass grind by paying and still enjoy the game either way.  But that's the trade-off...  If they charged you $60 to play, or a membership fee or something, it'd be different... but they don't.  They literally create as few pressure points as possible on the player to purchase anything... but they do have bills, and they do need to push sales somehow.

Also, nobody "pushes" these weekly things on us. They exist, but you don't HAVE to do them weekly, at all.  Hek, I've been skipping most weeklies for over a year because of health, and honestly, it's made little-to-no difference in my enjoyment of the game...

The frames/weapons will be there to farm/trade later,,, no need to rush.
Rivens will be there, and are not necessary anyway.
Shards will be there, and are not necessary anyway.
Quests will be there.
Arcanes aren't going away.
Relics are there later, too.

NONE of this needs to be done today, if at all.  If you put those expectations on yourselves, respectfully... that's on you.

It's like these people burning themselves out farming 1000+ forma during Plague Star, and then they're too disgusted to even open the game after that...  I'd understand why! But that was on THEM for overdoing it.

Forma is ALWAYS available... if ya always keep one in the foundry (which you can even do from your phone via companion app), you'll have plenty when you need 'em.

Again, none of this stuff is a "must-have".  LIKE to have? Sure, but not worth burning yourself out over.

DE didn't do that.  They put the cookies on the table... if y'all decide to shove the whole damn platter down your throats at once, don't blame DE for your sugar crash later.

[Warframes' connection to the Void? (Heart of Deimos/The Sacrifice spoilers)]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

I was recently thinking of the Heart of Deimos quest: the heart is attacked and nearly fails, which results in your Warframe being weakened and you eventually controlling a Necramech.

Loid: "Tenno? Still functional? Listen carefully. Getting back to the surface is not going to be easy. I don't know how to break this to you, but your Warframe... it's barely functional. You're going to have to stay low and out of sight. I know a shortcut, but you've got to do the rest."

Father: "Alright, with the Void closing up, you're going to be too weak to help in that frame."

Father: "Alright. Not ideal, but I've cross-routed your Warframe impulse stream directly to Snake. Now she'll feel heavy but you'll get used to it. Head outside and we'll run a field test before your descent."

And the part of this that puzzles me a bit is why the Tenno's ability to use a Warframe suffers but they are still perfectly able to use a Necramech.  I'm not sure if there's anything that explains this, so I've been poking around.

I found the following statement in a codex fragment:

Warframes are unique from Dax and other Infantry, deploying dangerous and esoteric Void energy, and equipped with often mundane physical weapons.

This is from the early days of Warframe, and I can't tell whether this is meant to suggest that Warframes themselves manifest their powers using Void energy, or simply that Void energy is part of how Warframes function because (despite being unrevealed at the time) each Tenno uses Void energy to transference with their Warframe.  I can kind of see this being read either way.

The thing that feels particularly odd to me is that in The Sacrifice when Ballas is explaining what Warframes are, he doesn't mention anything about the Void being a part of them or what they do; he only mentions that the Helminth Strain transformed them.  If the Void was involved, it seems like an odd detail to leave out, especially when this explanation isn't only an in-universe explanation, but also serves as a meta explanation of Warframes to the real-world player.

All of that being the case, I can think of 3 possible explanations:

• Warframes themselves require the Void to do everything: move, use powers, maybe even breathe.
• Warframes require the Void to use their powers, but not other stuff (though this doesn't explain this event in Heart of Deimos...).
• Transference requires the Void, and a weaker transference stream isn't enough to control a Warframe well for some reason, but it is enough to control a Necramech.

Is there any solid information in the game that helps explain this, or narrows things down a bit?  Preferably with quotes and sources so they can be verified!  Thanks, Tenno!

It's likely a bit of everything;

Warframes were probably, in some cases, made from early Tenno, or Void-Touched citizens, that already somewhat embodied these powers... the Infestation took over and adapted said powers.  We see text suggesting something like this in Ember Prime's codex, imo.

Warframes also use a Transference Bolt to allow the Tenno to connect via Transference.  Think of it like a Void Antennae.  When we were "closer" after the Second Dream, once we moved onto the ship physically, the Lotus said our connection to our frames would become "stronger".  Even moreso after TWW.

When the Heart begins to fail, and the Void begins to "close", our connection to that source of power weakens...  Warframes are more advanced than Necramechs, as you pointed out.

So, consider this....  If you ran your home on a generator, and that generator began to run dry....   You might not be able to run a PC, but you could probably run a simple pocket Calculator, yeah?  The PC is much more advanced and consumes much more power to run effectively...  but the Calculator runs on far less power (with far less functionality, in turn)

Necramechs are tough, but they don't do anything truly fantastical in the realm of Tenno Powers...  They're just essentially powered Exo Suits.  So, with that in mind, it was much simpler to use those because they required minimal power input from the Tenno.

That's how it all seems from this Tenno's point of view, anyways.

[Who else enjoys Qorvex' armor?]

There's a Helminth skill that sacs your shields for MORE armor.... wonder if that'll stack favorably? 

I'm still workin' on farmin' his stuff because been a rough health week, but SO excited to try 'im out!

[I guess the word "japanese" is a slur now.]

11 hours ago, darklord122 said:

Respectfully this would be a largely dumb reason to add these kind of censorship's into a chat. 

Not only would actually talking about a lot of countries be borderline impossible people would still circumvent it with other stuff.

Its like "Ah yes I can't say the land of sweden because it has mostly political neutrality thus people might find that offensive so i shall call it the land of meatballs to avoid a chat ban"
"I cant say russia cause the political strains of war so I must refer to it as the vodka capital."

Even then censorship would be pushed to stop that as well. So good luck having any topic about anything nationality wise regardless of political stance.

And screw people proud of their nationality, or liking any other nationality I guess.

If a chat cant be used as a place of discussion and moderation cant be instilled without censoring almost any word with common usage then we may as well not have a chat period. Clearly a reasonable line cannot be made if actual #*!%ing nationalities might be censored.

Minimal loss my ass, Some people have strong ties to their identity with nationalities and don't get me started on how ethnicity could get pulled into it thus making it worse.

Hopefully its a bug and not an actually form of upcoming censorship, Cause that's just gonna burn DE in the long run, They are already bad at handling censorship as is, they do not need more things to add onto that.

This isn't Facebook.  This isn't NBC or Fox or any other news network.  This isn't Twitter.

This is WARFRAME. It's a VIDEO GAME about SPACE NINJAS fighting giant robots, evil technovirus zombies, and Elo- erm, the Corpus.

If you're proud of your nationality, that's great.  Genuinely happy for you.   THIS GAME is not the platform for having conversations about that topic, though.

Take it to Discord... Take it off-game.  Being upset that an Action Video Game doesn't want to serve as Facebook Jr is ridiculous. DE doesn't OWE you that. It's never been promised, and it's never been what playing this game is about.

"Chat" is a place used to discuss topics pertaining to Warframe.  Asking where to farm x, who wants to group up to fight x boss, etc.   It's not for everyone to gather around NPR articles and talk about how "Proud they are to be an x".  Save it for your FB bio.
 

5 hours ago, Hexerin said:

Absolutely garbage take, my guy. There's literally no excuse for the censoring that DE puts into the game.

It's a perfectly reasonable excuse, and not a garbage take at *all*.  DE is a private company. They're allowed to moderate their chat/game as they see fit to create the atmosphere for their customers that they see fit to create.

This is entirely in their rights to do.  EVERY company does this.  Even Mr. "I Love Free Speech" over on a certain dumpster fire of a site is CONSTANTLY moderating, banning, deleting, hiding, etc words/phrases/topics they don't want on that site.

Sometimes things might seem obvious to ban/censor, and other times there might be some NUANCE to it that YOU, someone NOT working in that field/company, might NOT understand (imagine that D:)

If DE finds it is easier, cheaper, and safer to just block certain words/phrases, I GUARANTEE you that've made such a decision with A LOT more information, market research, and internal discussion than you and your brief considerations.  They know what they're doing.
 

5 hours ago, darklord122 said:

Tbh just as ridiculous, Just let people name it after countries if they wish, No one would care either way. God damn, If someone gets offended of a gun/pet/whatever having a country in their name they may need to re-evaluate a few things.  Oh no a kavat was named America, Get the pitchforks.  Grow up.

And therein lies the issue... You CLEARLY have zero foresight if you think this isn't a problem.   If you name your pet "America", and it gets KO'd, it'd have read, prior to pets update, "America is down".  This can EASILY be seen, depending on the country or other word used, as hate speech, hostility towards other ethnicities, xenophobia, etc.

There is zero reason to invite this issue into the game, just to appease y'all's obsession with juvenile mischief.  This game is rated Mature, but y'all act like anything but. :/ 

Furthermore, I'll repeat your own words back to you with all this in mind for you to reflect on: "If someone (you) gets offended for [not being allowed to use a country in the name of their gun/pet/whatever], they may need to re-evaluate a few things.  Grow up."

 

4 hours ago, Keiyadan said:

to my knowlege most filters use something like  "*badword",  "badword", "Badword*" or even "*badword*"

* means any other words or letters
had a problem in the past with the DE filters of a word that now is removed from the bad words

that ordeal made it clear to me that filters are just an illusion to make people belive the world dont be as bad
but if we go further the best thing to avoid offending people is probably dont talk at all or write
 

This is just a fallacious mess of Slippery Slope arguments, bud... 

First off, censoring SOME words does not need to lead to "Well, we just might as well not talk at all!".  That's a HUGE leap in logic without ANY reasoning based in reality.

Second, DE is a VIDEO GAME company... they work in the ENTERTAINMENT field.  It is not their goal to "offend" anybody.  They're trying to foster a place where one can escape reality, play their game about space ninjas and talking demon chairs, and has NOTHING to do with talking real-world politics.  There is no reason to be talking about IRL national/international issues, nor really discussing anything that requires one to call any particular country/nationality/ethnicity out.

Again, there are a plethora of 3rd Party options out there to CHAT with...  Warframe is not a Messaging/Chat Service, it is an action MMO.  If you just wanna chat about where ya live or how proud ya are of your specific patch of dirt, you can do so elsewhere.  Such topics are ALWAYS a high risk for issues to arise, and since DE is the one TAKING that legal and financial risk, it's their RIGHT to censor whatever they so please.

NOBODY, however, is asking ANYONE to "not talk at all in order to avoid offending others".  Although, if "offending others" IS your goal, that'd be harassment which along with being against the rules is also just a really crappy thing to do.  You'd just be tellin' on yourself.


I don't understand what the big deal is here, people!   Ya can't use these names. Move on.  Pick something else.  Want it different?  Find another game.  Like the rules better on other games?  Go play those other games.

But if you like THIS game and are just upset that you can't call your gun "Kentucky" or whatever...  Ya need to decide for yourself if THAT little tiny detail is enough of a big deal to leave Warframe, or if you can live with calling your weapon LITERALLY ANYTHING ELSE and still playing here.

Y'all talk about others being "offended", but YOU are the only ones whining in this thread about how upset this one little rule makes you!  Who is really offended? lol

[Missing counterplay from new enemy faction…?]

14 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

If the faction is meant to be so melee-focused, some options to at least keep a distant player on their toes while they’re not engaging to the strength of the enemy would be appreciated. Obviously the melee-focused faction would be scariest at close range, but right now keeping distance feels a little too easy (unless there’s something I’m missing).

I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t object to the faction being frightening at close range and still-present-and-aggressive-though-not-as-scary at distance if you’re not asking them to be nerfed. If anything this’d be a buff to the faction if they are indeed missing something in their toolkit of ways to kill the player

edit: Took the liberty of modifying the quote

I don't think this is a case of anything "missing" so much as it is a difference between YOUR idea of what you want out of this faction, and DE's idea of what THEY wanted to design...

If they are made TOO lethal in melee range, ALL anyone is going to do is CC and hide from as high/far as position as they can whilst nuking/sniping them....  Not exactly engaging gameplay to keep coming back to.

If they're made too squishy, it incentivizes AFKing or leads to whining on forums/etc.

Right now, where they're at, it's a nice balance of "engaging" but also "not too much pressure".

After all, DE's goal isn't to "kill the player"... it's for the players to have FUN, to feel POWERFUL, to feel they've made PROGRESS, etc.

This mode, thus far, insofar as I can tell from my own experience, has done exactly that.

It's not some sweaty endgame activity necessarily, no...  and I'm sure the time'll come we get Steel Path versions, stronger bosses, etc....  but there's nothing "wrong" with it.  It's just meant to be something everyone, casual or otherwise, can deal with, enjoy, and have FUN with.

Fun is, of course, subjective, and it's IMPOSSIBLE to please everybody with everything, so... if it's not your cup of tea, that's okay, too ^_^  There's plenty other modes that offer more challenge...  *shrugs*

[Stop making Warframe!!!!]

18 hours ago, (XBOX)Cram Duahcim said:

At the end of the day: You can't fix stupid. I mean you can try but your not going to. 

 

True enough, I suppose, but it's SO frustrating seeing DE work so hard on all of this, and to provide all that they do, for FREE no less, only to hear "Oi! Maybe stop doing that thing that pays your bills!  Also, give me all the things I want right now!  I have years of experience in watching TV dramas, so I TOTALLY know business better than anyone!  Also, I'm sure I could go super saiyan and kick everyone here's butts!  TRY ME, NOOBS!"

...instead of people being glad that we've got somethin' really awesome here to enjoy, faults and all...

...it's SO disheartening.  And seeing how much the devs, themselves, really seem to genuinely love the game, just sucks to think they log into the forums to see what their beloved community has to say about things like their BIG ANNOUNCEMENT ABOUT CROSS SAVE or this BRAND-NEW STORY COMING SOON WITH AN EPIC TRAILER or whatever else, only to read pages and pages of people making nonsense demands and juvenile complaints.

I know, I know... such are the forums.  Still, just trying to do my part to make the point that we're not ALL that far gone x.x  

Anyways, super hyped for the NEW warframes coming this year and next!  Hope DE **NEVER** stops making Warframes! :)  I've been playing games for DECADES, and I can honestly say this has been one of my all time favorites.  If Warframe were around when I was a kid, I'd have lost my little mind, lol.

Anywho, Happy Tennobaum, everyone!

[Stop making Warframe!!!!]

1 hour ago, TitiKamie said:

Hello, so I still think we should stop making warframes!

And now, I ask you, when Soulframe comes out, are you going to play it?

Are you going to give up on Warframe?

So why make a new Warframe?

For the money!

1. No.

2. Yes... don't see what it has to do with this discussion, though.

3. No. Why would we give up on Warframe?  Why would you even ask this?

4. The game is NAMED "Warframe".  It's been explained countless times in this thread, not to mention all throughout the forums, exactly why they keep producing new frames...  Mainly to keep feeding the Prime Access program, which is essential to keep the game going.

5. "For the money!"   *sarcastic gasp goes here*  Money?  A business that does things to make money?  What ABSURDITY is THIS!?

Seriously, though... DE is a BUSINESS. It EXISTS to make money.  That's not some "evil" purpose... it's literally the POINT of a business.  They aren't a charity, after all.

Moreover, they aren't just 5 people on a couch, either...  DE consists over over 300 EMPLOYEES...  Employees DEPEND on their job to FEED THEIR FAMILIES, to PAY RENT, to keep their CARS going, and so on....

DE charges the unbelievably expensive price of $0 to for you to PLAY Warframe...  Zero cost.  No Subscription. No Battle Pass Cost. No fee to even DOWNLOAD the game. No DLC costs.  Nothin'!

They rely ENTIRELY on what essentially amounts to donations for art you like... or for peeps to skip waiting on stuff.  That's it, really.

They stop doing that, how the heck do you expect them to pay those 300+ employees?

I REALLY don't think a lot of peeps on these forums understand what a business is, or how it operates.

I mean, if we lived in a world where Devs could just make games they love and not have to worry about expenses of living, that'd be great!  Sadly, ain't how things currently run.

Really startin' to think this thread is just a comment farm or somethin'....  like, why keep reviving it when the topic's been answered/replied to well enough?

[So cross platform save is only kind of coming this year?]

11 minutes ago, (PSN)Stealth_Cobra said:

Yeah do find it kinda hilarious that they offer to use the Founder accounts as the guinea pigs for this ... Talk about high stakes.

 

 

I believe this only has to do with the fact that Founders are both "Original Accounts" from the earliest days of the game (therefore, in theory, the most "stuff" to port over), as well as "Founder" being a "label" on the account, making it an easy variable to use/limit for the process.

Regardless, this process will go MUCH faster than the forums peeps seem to realize.  It's not a big wait, it's just not all gonna be Day 1, that's all DE was saying.

[For those who enjoyed it for fun, Why couldn't DE add Undertow as a hold option for tidal surge? like they did with bastille?]

On 2023-10-31 at 2:06 PM, Turritopsis_Dohrnii said:

Well, I'll be sure to be consistent in complaining about the removal of Undertow so they can throw resources at it once DE becomes much richer than it is now and I can go back to enjoying the game the same way I've had for years.

When it is said that they might not have the resources to continue supporting said skill... DE is not necessarily talking about having MONEY to deal with it.

Coding is complicated. 10 YEARS of code on a single game, update after update, is exponentially moreso.

To maintain one mechanic that exists in the game, and does so only as the ability of a SINGLE frame, out of 54+ frames, that also serves to cause game-breaking issues when trying to grow the game BECUASE of its unique mechanics....   That takes a TON of time, testing, technical work-arounds, etc.

Basically, preserving it would lead to the dev team needing to go WAY out of their to work around this one pothole JUST to do regular updates, which slows the ENTIRE process down, and that just is neither efficient for a studio to do, nor is it logical.

And to top it all off, Hydroid WAS one of the less-popular frames, and thus it made no sense to go out of their way to work around this seldom-used ability on a seldom-used frame, just to keep growing the game that keeps the lights on...

MUCH LESS SO given that this same ability was causing unintended AFK play that goes against the devteam's core values in the game.


I, for one, loved Undertow, and I very seldom used it to just sit (unless I was streaming and needed to catch up to chat, lol), but I DID use it to hop in and out of combat, like I was a pack of aggro orca just leapin' in, smashin' the enemies with my weapons, and then back to the depths where I lurked...  It was definitely unique!  I have ideas on how I THINK they could've worked around it, but I, and this goes for everyone else on these forums...  DO NOT WORK AT DE, and DO NOT KNOW WHAT IT ACTUALLY TOOK BEHIND THE SCENES TO KEEP IT GOING.

So all this speculation that we toss out there, and then subsequently, and unfairly i might add, judge DE by, seems hardly sound, much less kind, as nobody here REALLY knows what it takes to keep this stuff going.


Also, sidenote:  HOW do people keep INSISTING that "Pablo never talked about his reasoning" when he CLEARLY STATED on recent DevStreams the EXACT reasons he was changing things up for Hydroid, not the least of which was the "Enemy Denial", something that frames like Limbo have had addressed in the past, as well.  Heck, that was the same reason Ember and Banshee got some hefty makeovers, since they were essentially shutting down entire tilesets, which was NO fun for others on the teams.

Like, if peeps wanna hate it, hate it.... but don't sit here and lie with a straight face when we're all HERE on the INTERNET where we can hear the words FROM PABLO'S OWN FACEHOLES....     Like, really?


Good grief, peeps need to chill.

[For those who enjoyed it for fun, Why couldn't DE add Undertow as a hold option for tidal surge? like they did with bastille?]

On 2023-10-30 at 6:35 AM, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

I mean, it's kinda like Nyx Absorb where it could be situationally useful if you needed a breather or wanted to cast abilities while immune to damage.

What?  You mean Nyx, who is GODLY and unkillable, can, with augment, walk freely about the entire map, like a friggin' Terminator, taking even Archons face-to-face without issue whilst dealing a TON of damage, no knockbacks or whatnot from AoE, Glaives, etc?  The Nyx that can instantly strip shields/armor from enemies, even Liches, with the smallest of strength investments?  The Nyx that, even on a map that denies you use of the Gear Wheel, can turn an ENTIRE ROOM of enemies in her personal army in seconds?  Who can turn a heavy gunner into a personal escort turret on legs, boosting its power even further and making it also unkillable?

That Nyx?

Nyx is literally god-tier.  I have no idea what game some people are playing when they complain about these frames x.x

On 2023-10-30 at 2:42 AM, Turritopsis_Dohrnii said:

The doctor tells the patient they are losing their legs to help other people and that there is a much better option for moving rather than using those legs. The patient doesn’t quite understand why he has to do it so he tries to reason why he has to do such a thing. He doesn’t owe anything to anyone else and would like to live his life and use his legs to the fullest since he worked so hard with them despite knowing he probably won’t be winning any competitions or not. The doctor then forcibly amputates the patient without his consent much to the surprise to the patient.

 

The “rework” is akin to amputating someone’s legs but giving him an extremely fancy wheelchair that allows someone to perform so much better than when he had legs. Then pushing the guy off the wheelchair so some other people can use it. The person who had the legs originally now has nowhere else to go. 

 

It’s not murder. He’s definitely still alive! He’s breathing so he must be feeling fine right? Also, what’s wrong with this wheelchair? Why is it so slow? Why don’t we just use the car? *Throws wheelchair at disabled person*

 

“Have fun with your life! We’ll have fun with ours!” *drives off on their two legs with a car* 

 

Now the person with a wheelchair has a choice. He continues living like nothing ever happened even though living will always be completely different from now on or just gives up. He can’t do anything else because it’s not in his power to. 

 

I play the victim because that’s what this is and I have no other options. I’m a living breathing victim of a change that I didn’t want and am now traumatized with no where to turn to. Not allowed to have an experience I cherished and lived side by side for a long time. 

 

Why point out logical reasoning or feedback when even in the recent dev stream it’s not even given a serious thought? 

 

Why punish a long time player of a unique play-style that found the game itself fun and didn’t mind the meta? 

 

Was I too conceited? Did I bring a level of toxic elitism or discomfort to a large base of players for existing? Why did this end up happening? Why can’t I have what I always had enjoyed and other people can have what they always wanted? Why must there be a divide?

 

Must fun always be measured by instant gratification? 

 

I don’t understand. I just don’t understand it. Why couldn’t you leave people to enjoy themselves in their own island when you were already making so many islands already… Why does the hypocritical design just have to bleed everywhere.

My friend, with all due respect, I dunno anything about your IRL experiences, but speaking as someone who has dealt with actual traumas/PTSD.... PLEASE do not act like removal of a video game power is equivalent to "traumatic punishment", yeah?  Reeeeally disrespectful, and it does nothing to help strengthen your point, either.

You are not a "victim".  This not being done TO you.  This is simply a company changing the game they OWN, and allow you to play, so it can continue on for many years to come.

Just because you do not understand it, does not mean it does not make sense.   You probably don't understand every facet of nuclear fusion, either, and yet the Sun continues to shine, day after day, yeah?

Chill.  Take a break.  Then, come back and please enjoy any one of the 54 amazing options for frames to play... or don't.  *shrugs*

[The price of Heirloom skins is incredibly disappointing.]

On 2023-09-21 at 12:42 PM, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

This. Armored core 6 in its entirety cost me 60 bucks. 

But for me im more concerned about the precedent. 

>ah yes lets make more and more 90$ skin pairs you cant even get with plat 

"Poors lol". 

This statement reeks of snobbery and white knightism. Many people including myself in this thread have purchased prime access and or accessories and or plat packs multiple times. Its not about the $ amount its about the lack of value, among other things. 

 

 

"Lack of value"?  This $90 pack gives MORE value than the $100 platinum price.  You get 2100 plat PLUS all the other good stuff.

Now, if you don't want to pay that, or this pack doesn't have anything you "value" at $90, then fine, don't buy it...  but to say it is somehow not "worth it" in terms of objective pricing is demonstrably false.

Mind you, I cannot afford it, either, but doesn't mean it's "bad" just because I can't afford it.  There are TONS of things I can't afford... that's got nothing to do with their inherent value.

For some, $90 is a new game and some extras.  For others, it's these skins.  For others still, it's a bill paid or gas in their car or food on their table.

GAMING, ITSELF, is a LUXURY... yet you all speak of these things like it's somehow OWED to you, like it's some RIGHT you possess.  Newsflash, there are SO many wrongs in this world, so many crimes and horrors inflicted upon millions of people EVERY DAY... 

The price of optional cosmetics in a f2p *video game* is NOT one of them.   So please, stop your self-righteous bs, yeah?  (and just to make it CLEAR, I'm saying this to EVERYONE pushing this in the forums, not just the person I'm replying to.... since that seems to need to be pointed out in other threads c.c)

Nobody is being harmed.  It's a product, and that's the price.  Don't like it?  Don't pay it.  DE still lets ya play Warframe, same as ever, free of charge, with 99.9% of the content COMPLETELY FREE, with MORE on the way...  

but yup, they're trying to push a few skins to fund future content, so let's all burn down the tower and revolt!  /s


Friggin' hell, some of y'all SERIOUSLY need to get a grip... if THIS is such a travesty, then you must be bathed in privilege x.x   The rest of us just want to play Warframe and deal with the other REAL problems in our lives.

[PSA: Heirloom Collection Platinum Changes & Lessons]

2 minutes ago, (XBOX)Mastermitchel89 said:

then they spoiled it

For themselves

For those that payed

And those that didn't

Shall we mention Founders again or does the point not stick

Platinum booster vouchers Conveniently added into the game

Either that or it replaced discounts

Also the same amount of people that can even see the skins and extra to bug report 

 

 

I'm someone who hasn't paid, and I don't feel like anything was spoiled whatsoever.

Y'all need to stop speaking in such absolutes, as if you somehow represent the whole of players. Ya don't.  You represent YOU, yourself, and nobody else, bud.

Also, I can't decipher the rest of your reply here....  I think it TRIED to make a sensible sentence in there somewhere, but...  *shrugs*

and I SWEAR, if I ever played a "Take a shot for every time "Founders" are invoked as a reason to be outraged", I'd be dead already from poisoning...

This has nothing to do with the Founder's Pack, and the situations aren't comparable.  You're trying to compare Apples and Hedgehogs, here... there's nothing there that you THINK there is.

This is simply a thing DE provided for a price, and they're trying to make money from it, as businesses do, at least in part to continue providing all the content everyone demands for free.  Content, it seems, you think materializes from thin air, apparently.

1 minute ago, (XBOX)Mastermitchel89 said:

95% of stuff most people buy is food or to buy things to replace teaching real Knowledge and skills that were restricted from them

Handed back as a stupid piece of paper saying if someone else allows them to be considered "Intelligent"

Actions are better at a psychological evaluation then words (Until you use emotive language)

Source: "Trust me, bro"

[PSA: Heirloom Collection Platinum Changes & Lessons]

2 minutes ago, Slayer-. said:

  

^

Players will still buy either pack they like if it suits them. ^{[yes yes I'm replying to my post just pointing it out]}

I actually bought the top pack in the first couple of days before DE added extras because I liked it for what was in it, I don't care for the players who are rubbing it in the faces of other players according to some, I'm too old for that crap and never would in the first place, so I don't see why I should get harassed in the future for buying it, I haven't come across any negativity towards me in the game so players are fine and just like me and want to play, some posts in this thread threatening violence and harassment, and blacklisting players like the Limbo dribble saga are pathetic, those posts were removed by a mod if you go looking.

I haven't taken a solid stand for either party because it's not about sides, if you want it you'll buy it, I don't care about the FOMO I liked the skins and I liked the Regal Aya and Plat was nice as well.

My above quotes should be standard you'd think, if DE put out a no-frills pack with only skins more people would buy it, well you'd think they would which would be bonus money for DE.

I'm a simple person who's lived in tough times of life and just wants to play a game I really like with over 8500+ hours ingame.

Honestly, I completely respect that stance.  I'm also a simple person living through tough times, so I *get* it.  The fact that games like Warframe EXIST these days, much less for FREE, free to ACCESS, free to play EXPANSIONS, etc... is amazing to me.  If I didn't have those, I'd likely not have ANY games to play these days, which would really be sad, as they can do a lot to provide, not just entertainment but, community and socialization where you'd otherwise be in isolation... So, I am, indeed, grateful for games like these.

and tbh, my take is very much the same as your own - if you want it, get it.  If you don't, don't.  If you can't afford it, you have almost 4 MONTHS from its release to save for it, but if you cannot, then you simply cannot.  It's OKAY.  Warframe is STILL open to everyone. STILL FREE to play in EVERY way that matters most.

But from the responses on this topic, you'd think DE was suddenly charging a subscription fee or something.  It's crazy.

To address, specifically, your question as to why they haven't simply put out a "4th pack" without all the extra bells and whistles yet....  I mean, I don't work at DE, so I don't know any better than anyone else on these forums, BUT, having run several businesses over the years, I'd wager that it's not so much that it's "difficult", so much as they simply "can't".

When I say "can't", I'm not implying that it's technically difficult to execute on...  Just that there might be legal or financial reasons that they can't... and so they haven't.

Perhaps they've got a specific contract with the commissioned artist that they can't reneg on.  Perhaps they've got a specific financial goal that they NEED to meet, and that requires a package at this price point... thus why they'd ADD to it, rather than take away FROM it.

But these are just guesses... educated guesses, but guesses, nonetheless.

And the assumptions of some that "If they just did x, they'd make SO MUCH MONEY" aren't really based on any ACTUAL data, from what I've seen.  I mean, sure it might SOUND like it'd work to you, but does it ACTUALLY do that in practice?

Fortunately, companies like DE don't have to guess as much, because they have departments full of workers whose specific jobs have them analyzing just such predictions based on past and present data... much of which is not likely public.

DE is making an educated move, an informed play... they're not just slapping a pack up online with a random number they hope to get... they KNOW that "At $x, it's likely to sell y number of copies, and thus we can expect to earn $a-$b profit over x amount of time on this package."

I mean, it sucks for those of us who can't afford it, sure, but, as someone else who has "lived in tough times", I'm sure you already understand well...  there are a TON of things we can't afford sometimes.... but this is a GAME, not a necessity for living, so this isn't like we're being barred from essential food or shelter over $x  (which sadly IS a thing, but I digress, it isn't DE doing it)....  

So I just don't see how so many people here are blowing this so out of proportion.  They've said plenty.  DE has a DevStream later this month... if they want to elaborate, that'll be the time.

but this expectation that DE just sits around, panicking and waiting to reply to each and every demand on a whim is .. I dunno... juvenile is the only word that seems apt at the moment.  I really want to see the Warframe community live up to the praise it gets more.... but threads like these, they... really don't.

[PSA: Heirloom Collection Platinum Changes & Lessons]

11 hours ago, Stafelund said:

I've yet to see you address the FOMO nature of the pack. And uh, isn't most of your posts opinions and conjecture too?

You don't work for DE, and this is pretty much baseless. If they know their data, then they must be always have it perfect on all ingame products they implement and surely, they won't change the Prime Access and Regal Aya from years ago. Ironically this is also an opinion and conjecture, since we don't even know what DE sees in the first place. I hope you're not really being shortsighted here.

You're really not accomplishing what you think you are here, friend.

You're taking small little clips of my (probably too) lengthy posts, and trying to pick apart specific words to spin the meaning of my entire point... rather than addressing the point itself.

I provided you the specific definition for Dunning-Kruger, right there, clear as day on screen, and yet STILL you reply like you have, completely disregarding that definition, and pushing forward with this hyperbolic nonsense.

I NEVER said that ALL opinions are pointless. I never said that nobody should HAVE opinions here, either.  So you're misrepresenting my argument to INTENTIONALLY try and demerit it, rather than actually considering it and engaging with it honestly.  In psychology, since you're so fond of it, we call this Logical Fallacy a STRAWMAN...  and it's a hallmark of bad-faith arguments.

re: Prime Access, Regal Aya, etc... I already addressed those, too, in my previous replies... but you moved right on passed them, as well...  Convenient, eh?

Again, never said that one cannot, or even should not, criticize DE or other devs/publishers based on their opinions of a specific business practice or offering...

Just that one should never be taking the stance of arguing that they *KNOW* what's "better for" said developers/publishers, than said devs/pubs do themselves.... based solely ON said emotions/opinions, when lacking relevant credentials.

I literally cannot express this any clearer.  If, at this point, you are not comprehending what I'm laying out here... you're either choosing to remain ignorant on the topic, truly unable to understand it, or intentionally misrepresenting my stance (and plenty of others') to try and push your own points/agendas in bad faith.

Quite honestly, I don't see how that ISN'T a blatant violation of the Forum Guidelines, much less how this topic isn't locked by now, but I suppose the Forum Mods have their reasons... after all, THEY are the pros at that, not me...  see how that works?  Deferring to the actual expe- aaah, nvm

 

10 hours ago, (XBOX)toughdragon17 said:

First Bud there's a ton of disrespect hear if you can't see it thats on you 

Second I can easily afford the pack worth 90 dollars i choose not to because of how they handled not caring about the loyal fans who can't afford the pack 

Third if they know there marketing so well why didn't they see that a 4th pack only holding the skins and cosmetics for 25 to 30 dollars would be extremely profitable seeing as there are a good amount of people that can't afford the skins and or just don't want the platinum and regal aya 

 

1, You keep INSISTING there is malintent, but have yet to provide any proof other than "trust me, bro"... as I've stated several times, now.  You repeating this does not change that.

2a. You INSIST they "do not care" without any evidence to back up that this is their actual stance.  Yet, there IS actual evidence, and plenty of it, to the contrary.  Hell, just look at DE Megan's response, to begin with! 

2b, The entire foundation of your argument here is absurd to begin with!  You're claiming that DE pricing their pack as-is, is simply "disrespectful and inconsiderate to all fans who cannot afford it".  If you were to take this claim at face value, then you're insinuating that ALL products that DE sells, every SINGLE ONE, that costs ANYTHING, is "disrespectful to loyal fans", since the game, itself, as well as all necessary content for progression therein, are FREE, and as such have no barriers-to-entry for players who have NO income.

Thus, it is quite likely, and reasonable to assume, that there are many players who meet this criteria.  And it is not unfair to assume, as well, that they can certainly be "loyal players", no doubt.

So, by your own words, would DE putting up a pack at $40 not be equally as "disrespectful" to them?  Unfair?  $30?  $10?  $1?  After all, if they have NO income, then that bars those players, however "loyal" you deem them to be, from accessing said content.  I mean, those are your own words above, are they not?

And obviously, such an argument would be ABSOLUTELY ABSURD, as it would deny DE the ability to charge ANY money AT ALL for content within their game/services, lest they be criticized as "disrespectful to players"....   and, hopefully I don't need to inform you on why that wouldn't work for a business. ANY business.

I mean, Rebb said it perfectly well, and I believe it's been quoted quite frequently right here IN THIS VERY THREAD, no less, that though DE values the feedback players provide, and understands that players are GREAT at describing when something "doesn't feel right", they still ALSO understand that players DO NOT always have the capability to provide actually productive or reasonable solutions!

I mean, she's spot on.  The customer is NOT always right.  The customer is the CONSUMER of the goods, but does no necessarily possess all of the knowledge and experience necessary to PRODUCE said goods.

I can have a car, but not have a clue about how to build it.  I can live in a home without knowing a thing about construction. I can use my sink, but not be a plumber.  I can turn on my lights, but not be an electrician.  

I mean, the device you're using to reply to these posts RIGHT NOW is probably something you couldn't just rebuild from scratch, even if given all relevant parts, no?  But you still USE it... you still understand how to CONSUME through it.

Same goes for devs vs players.

[PSA: Heirloom Collection Platinum Changes & Lessons]

11 hours ago, Stormhawkaro said:

Pots and kettles or something along those lines.

Not sure if you lack reading comprehension, Dunning-Kruger applies perfectly to you or both:

Yes, DE knows how to run the business and that's why in several occasions -already mentioned before- they ended up adding a cheaper bundle with cosmetics only due to player feedback (fun enough, most of the warframe we know today was built on player feedback during warframe's early years)

The weird thing is how -despite listening to such player feedback several times already- they keep doing the same mistake of making new collections without a cheaper cosmetics bundle right from their first implementation; that's not a big deal in most stuff since pretty much everything is bound to come back at some point unless stated otherwise.

And yes, once again, this bundle being both, bloated with stuff players may not want AND containing items which are stated to never come back is the main reason for the fuss about Heirloom collections.

1, I don't think you understand what Dunning-Kruger is if you're just going to toss it back at me.  I'm using it to describe those who, without credentials or merit, have cast accusations and judgements, not to mention insisting that "it's as easy as x", at DE regarding DE's decisions in how they run their game (which DE has done, successfully, for over 10+ years, not to mention they've been in the dev business for 30+ years).

Definition, in case you don't know: The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which people with limited competence in a particular domain overestimate their abilities.

Unlike those mentioned above, I was NOT criticizing game devs for their game dev work, nor any other experts in their fields about their fields of work/study... unless y'all think you're "professional critics", in which case we're gonna need to see some credentials :P 

ON that note, I DO have quite an extensive history of experience in running businesses, and all that comes with that, such as understanding marketing, ROI, projections, etc.  Now, obviously I'm not going to give out my IRL identity, as that is both unsafe AND against forum guidelines, so I suppose you'll just have to trust me on that (and I don't expect anyone to), but then again, as I said, I'm not the one levying accusations and insisting my opinions are worth more than actual professionals' experience/knowledge.

2. You have yet to cite ACTUAL SOURCES regarding this claim that DE made specific market decisions "ONLY DUE TO" player feedback... and I'd wager that is due, in large part, because there IS no such source...  All you have is the limited words from forum posts or devstream clips, wherein devs might mention that they observe some feedback, and include that feedback in their decision-making processes, but never have they said "We made these decisions ONLY based on what random players have demanded! and with NO other professional input from our actual staff who do this for a living!"

DE even STATED, on SEVERAL occasions, that whilst they DO listen to player feedback, and *TAKE IT INTO CONSIDERATION*, they do not simply heed to the demands of those screaming on the forums about "WE WANT! WE WANT!"

They mentioned as much when they made the change to Regal Aya to include platinum..  that they were making this change based on "The CONSTRUCTIVE feedback", but that it was in NO part due to those who just shout and scream.

You see, "feedback" isn't just making demands or shouting "I don't like it!".   Any toddler can do those things and achieve nothing.  CONSTRUCTIVE Feedback, which is what DE asks for and welcomes, is about providing insight into perceived issues, providing constructive criticism therein, and proposing positive solutions regarding said issues...  not just "Do better!  I AM DISAPPOINT! >:( "

It certainly doesn't help, in this case, to just run around saying "I don't like this! Make it cheaper!  Take this out!"

I worked in the entertainment industry for 20+ years.... let me tell you how many customers I had to deal with that thought they could just whittle down my price because "Well, we don't need this part of the show, or this.. and we could change this, and ...."

Not how it works, bub.  If you want to custom create a show, you're welcome to your own...  This is mine, and that's my fee.

This is no different with DE and their digital goods/services.  Y'all really need to wise up to that, truly.  Just because you DEMAND something does not mean that said "something" is going to happen, SHOULD happen, or is viable for the other party involved (DE). 

 

11 hours ago, Stafelund said:

Despite what you said in your last sentence, you're pretty much white-knighting blindly at this point. Mentioning DE =/= Dev bashing. I didn't once blame the devs for this decision, I am blaming the company as a whole, with valid criticism. Also, Jesus, think for yourself. Even if they are opinions, it doesn't change that there's facts behind those. Go ask a psychologist or someone who specializes in the business. Unlike the founders pack, which has a deep meaning and reason behind it, the Heirloom packs, this whole thing is FOMO which is worsened by the unwanted currency. Which is something you don't seem to bring up (and didn't bring up here, funnily). Ask a marketing expert on this for a honest opinion? They'll say that this appeals to the customers' emotions/psychologically. Same with psychologists, they'll spot that the FOMO is meant to entice certain thoughts from a consumer.

It's exploitative because it tries to pull on compulsiveness of people. Just look at these: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8283615/#:~:text=Fear of missing out (FoMO,to maintain these social connections.

https://medium.com/@milijanakomad/product-design-and-psychology-the-exploitation-of-fear-of-missing-out-fomo-in-video-game-design-5b15a8df6cda

https://medium.com/@milijanakomad/product-cases-psycho-manipulation-techniques-in-gaming-8ee351dc9c04

The first one is FOMO in general, not just games. But they all focus on one thing: Compulsion. It's worse in this case, because it's compulsion AND money. Mentally, and financially exploitative. The last link even mentions things of what the Heirloom packs are guilty of at #2. It's manipulation, like it or not, no ifs, and no buts about it.

You want facts? You got it. Now, since you're keen on blindly protecting such practice, I'm gonna want you to elaborate on what makes this justified other than being a blatant FOMO product. The Founders pack was a last ditch effort and was made to value the people who used their resources to cement the game's future and to make it available for today. So what's this pack's excuse?

Bud, for the thousandth time, I'm NOT "blindly" saying a damned thing.  I'm quite aware of what "FOMO" is, and quite familiar with how psychology is applied to sales.

What I think YOU don't seem to understand yet, though, is that it's *irrelevant* to this topic, because what you have yet to grasp is that ALL CAPITALISM IS EXPLOITATIVE.

That's literally how it WORKS.  You don't "need" 95% of the crap you buy. Hell, ya don't "need" to play this game!  Or ANY game, for that matter.  It's all a "waste of productive potential time spent", if you want to be technical.

DE isn't doing a damned thing here that literally EVERY other company in ANY industrialized nation with a Capitalist economic system does.

And this has been EXPLAINED to you SEVERAL times now, by multiple posters here, mind you...  So before you criticize ME for "failing to read", ya might want to do some work on yourself, yeah?

There is not one thing about Warframe that is remotely "essential" to your daily life.  Yes, some people enjoy it, and it means a lot of things to a lot of players, but it's not a life essential.

And given that it's running on one of the fairest F2P models out there, it RELIES on SOLID MARKETING and IN-GAME "psychological practices", as you might call them, to keep people playing and incentivize purchases....  otherwise, they'd have 300+ people unemployed by week's end.

I'm not "white knighting", I'm simply stating facts. ACTUAL facts, not whatever crap y'all keep trying to shove in this thread to disguise your temper tantrums and ego-fueled rants.

The Founder's Pack existed to fundraise directly from crowd-funding, as opposed to the typical route which was going to investors and publishers.

The Heirloom Pack, and honestly ALL of DE's large purchase packs, such as Prime Access, etc, exist for EXACTLY the same reason.

You all demand "MORE" from DE, and yet when they don't get it to you "fast enough", y'all cry about that TOO.   So, to fuel "FASTER" development, that means they need MORE money TODAY, not "when enough of you decide to buy some Tennogen".

Thus, they put a deadline on things.  There's literally NOTHING wrong with that.

--- Now, if DE had done this with, say, ACTUAL ITEMS that you REQUIRE in-game to progress, such as weapons, a new frame, etc... or anything that actually KEPT players from taking part in some important or necessary in-game activity or communal activity without paying an exorbitant fee... I MIGHT agree with you more then.

but that simply isn't what's happening.  It's 1 set of skins, and some other extra content, NONE of which has ANY effect on gameplay of the purchaser NOR any other Tenno whatsoever.

LEAST of all is the accolade.  ROFL, like...  I've been playing this game for YEEEEARS, and I can count on 1 hand the number of times I've ever bothered to look for/at an accolade on a profile...  hell, I barely check profiles at all.  I'm much more concerned with what's happening in the missions and chat windows etc.

You want to criticize predatory business practices?  I'm all for it.  Capitalism, itself? Greed?  I'm right there with you, bud.  But this?  This ain't it, chief.

[PSA: Heirloom Collection Platinum Changes & Lessons]

30 minutes ago, (XBOX)toughdragon17 said:

...basically what there doing hear they forgot about a massive portion of there supporters and didn't think of making a 4th pack for the people that love the game but can't afford 90 dollars and there (were sorry) was to add a bit more platinum to the pack instead of re evaluating the situation and creating a 4th pack for the people that eather can't afford the 90 dollar version or really dont want the platinum and regal aya

 

"They totally did this exact thing, with these exact intentions, and made these specific mistakes based on my.... complete lack of evidence.  But just trust me, bro... trust me. It's totally, exactly how things definitely went down.  I mean, just look at all of these, like, 10 people complaining... out of 10's of MILLIONS!  Clearly, less than 0.0001% of the playerbase is a sIGnIfiCAnT AmOUnT!   Source: "Trust ME"!"

Y'all keep making these claims, but the only thing you've put up is hyperbole, anecdote, and opinions, thus far....

I've yet to see any wrongdoing here.  DE made a package of THEIR products/services.  They set a price.  That price is fine for some, too high for others. The end.

There's no "disrespect".  There's no "mistake".   Just because YOU cannot afford it (and to be clear, I can't either), doesn't make it a "mistake".

DE HAS the data. They KNOW the ROI of their marketing and sales.  They perfectly well what they can and should expect from this package sale, and clearly are fine with it since they DID exactly that.

YOU don't like it... but that doesn't make it a "mistake".

[PSA: Heirloom Collection Platinum Changes & Lessons]

21 hours ago, DogsConkers said:

Meanwhile Rockstar celebrates their 10 year anniversary of GTA 5 by giving away clothing, weapon finishes and other bonuses to their community for free!

DE *DID* give away "free clothing, weapons, and other bonuses" for their 10 year anniversary.  In fact, we had a whole 10 WEEKS in-game of special events doing exactly that, via GotL Alerts, Recall: Ten Zero alerts, etc, plus drops on Twitch and so on.  Not to mention Dex Operator/Drifter cosmetics, which were also FREE.

14 hours ago, Stafelund said:

If that's the case, seems like DE sadly missed the point of what made Founders special?

Very surprising. I've always thought of Rockstar as nothing ever since they did those remastered editions and removing the original versions of this game, plus all the GTA V online shenanigans. I'm glad DE hasn't done anything yet similar to Rockstar and haven't heard of anything happening in Warframe like in GTA V, that frightening exploit from the start of this year was quite something.

I agree with this. I'm actually saying that it's easy to fall down that way of thinking because of cognitive bias.

"If that's the case, .....blahblahblah",  Like, this whole post of yours, and many others from other posters on this thread, are just taking strawmen and running with them as if they're FACTS when they're simply NOT.

Opinions? Sure.  Facts, though? Nope.

It's fine not to like something. It's fine to think something is too expensive, bundled poorly, etc... but those are OPINIONS. And some of y'all really have issues separating SUBJECTIVE reality from OBJECTIVE reality.

Moreover, you're just pushing this false libel for DOZENS of pages on this thread, all based on "Well, if RANDOMPOSTER1019493 SAY SO, then it MUST BE SO! and that's TERRIBLE OF DE!!" etc...   Like, can y'all just stick to facts and stop with the dev-bashing?  (which, btw, is against the forum guidelines to begin with)

12 hours ago, Lion said:

I mean honestly to me this is like getting mad about limited editions or preorder bonuses or something equally irrelevant. People get so mad about FOMO like its the company that gave them FOMO and not an unresolved psychological compulsion that they themselves are responsible for. 10 years ago FOMO was just a cute twitter hashtag now people are treating ANYTHING that's limited time like a cardinal sin - like things aren't allowed to be limited anymore.  FOMO isn't something that DE gave you, and simply making something limited time isn't giving you FOMO - you already had it. 

I've never felt compelled or forced to buy anything, the only things I bought were things I wanted and was able to afford. There's been times where something I really wanted was too expensive and I said "oh well I can't get this" and moved on. Yes they technically could offer this forever (or at least until the game shuts down) but they chose not to, and that's that.

I said it before the most ideal scenario would've been launching with a cheaper pack, but that ship has sailed as we are now past launch, I think that at this point just biding their time is the best course of action they can take, as they are choosing to protect people who have already paid vs cater to people who probably still wouldn't pay even if the pack was like $50.

THIS ^^^   And honestly, regarding the whole "the pack could be cheaper" thing...  it's SO EASY for these random keyboard warriors to come on here and CLAIM "Oh, if only DE would do x, I'd DEFINITELY buy it then!" without any need to COMMIT to that statement, though.   Not to mention, as you said, Lion...  They could lower it to $50, you'd have peeps still having 100+ pages of "IT SHOULD BE $30!", and then $30 leads to "IT SHOULD BE $15!" etc.

That's all this thread has been!  It should've been titled "I have ZERO information behind-the-scenes of what this costs DE, and what their agreements and timelines are based on, but I DEMAND it be changed to *arbitrary number according to my individual wallet*, because fReEDoM!", because that's ALL it is!

We address one issue, and it'll be "Nu uh! It's not THIS, it's actually THAT!", and the goalposts shift again.   DE gives everything away, has ONE pack that they're like "Ya know what?  We have some HUGE stuff on the horizon, and the Cost of Living has risen dramatically!  Maybe we should do this one special thing and push for a bigger pricetag.  Even toss some MORE stuff in it to really give them their money's worth!  We need to fundraise the future of this game!" 

And boom.  Drama. HYPERBOLE OUT THE VOID around here! O_O  "IT'S THE END OF WARFRAME!  I'll NEVER PLAY AGAIN!" etc.  Good grief, it's so juvenile o-o

12 hours ago, Slayer-. said:

It just seems so simple and basic in my mind to do a skins only pack, how hard is it to keep what's there now and do skins only, it would appease everyone.

See: Dunning-Kruger.     And I honestly don't mean that as an insult...  but it's genuinely what's been happening here for 88+ pages now...  people "Don't see why x couldn't work", yet those same people DON'T have ANY of the info that DE has on sales numbers, costs of business, projections per quarter, demands from management, contracts with outside artists commissioned, etc.

The vast majority of people on these forums are likely NOT devs, and certainly do not work at DE, and yet proclaim to know BETTER than DE how DE could and should work.

That is not only audacious, but just... absurd, really.

11 hours ago, Lion said:

IMO limited time marketing is just marketing, and there is little to no room for ethics in it. The whole essence of marketing is to try and convince you to trade your money for useless products you don't need and are never going to need, and there's no tool more effective than limited time offers. I don't judge them for it, it is what it is. You either buy it and are done with it, or say no and move on. Marketing is designed to pressure you, so why are we mad about it doing exactly what it's designed for?

^ This, again.  There is, as I mentioned before, a SEVERE lack of understanding of how businesses work shown here on this forum.

And that'd normally be fine, as it is not a requirement for one to be able to access this forum, either...  but then the Dunning-Kruger takes over, like I mentioned, and suddenly "Jimmy who plays games sometimes after school/work and maybe has a degree in engineering or whatnot" is suddenly an "EXPERT" on all things to do with DE's business model, including all numbers behind the scenes..   And worse still is the entitlement that accompanies it.

It'd almost be funny in how childish it is, save for how pervasive such a mindset has become, and thus how damaging it ends up being.

I mean, make no mistake, I'm not capitalism fanboy by ANY stretch, but I DO recognize that DE is just a business run by people who are living UNDER that system, and thus, need to run their business accordingly, lest they become unable to afford what they need in life.

These people on the forums don't seem to be able to understand basics like "Just because the business has large GROSS REVENUE does NOT mean they have large NET PROFITS, much LESS does it indicate what the WORKERS AT said company can afford."

But im sure they'll just tear this comment of mine apart, too, with ad homs and hyperbolic hot air.

3 hours ago, Stormhawkaro said:

It's simple, basic, and player response has been the same every time DE adds a new bundle without a cosmetics only option yet for some weird reason they keep doing the exact same (while saying that they listen to the community or talk about learning from past mistakes) ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

For "some weird reason", it's been working for them for 10+ years, even LONGER if you look at DE outside of Warframe...

Gee, it's almost like... the business knows how to run itself, and the NON-business consumers don't know everything that DE does :O

Crazy, that, yeah?

by the by, just because YOU label something in the past a "mistake" does not make it objectively true.  And no, some people on the forums agreeing with your opinions does not make them any more objective.

2 hours ago, (XBOX)toughdragon17 said:

Yet they never do there just like the bp oil company from southpark they mess up and say (were sorry) and make the same mistakes again and again without thinking or reasoning before they make the next decision

....Can you comment anything that ISN'T hyperbole?  Like, dude.. this is such a blow-out-of-proportion, overly dramatic take on something so simple as "Oh, that's expensive. I can't afford it. Bummer. AT LEAST IT DOESNT AFFECT MY GAMEPLAY AT ALL", comparing it to BP OIL and their terrible oil spills that destroyed tons of ecology....  

It's just mind-blowing to think people might actually believe the crap they type.  I cannot fathom that you take yourself or this topic THAT seriously.

They are SKINS.  Yes, there are things in the pack other than skins. That's what's being offered.  That's what's for dinner, so to speak.  Ya don't gotta buy it to play.  It isn't blocking you from enjoying ANY of the game's gameplay or areas or anything.  It's just TWO skins of HUNDREDS that you simply won't have.  That's ALL.

Get over yourselves, and seriously get a grip O_O

This isn't me or anyone else "white knighting"... this is just sensible people putting their foot down and telling y'all to snap back to reality. You're not some soap opera characters, good grief.

[PSA: Heirloom Collection Platinum Changes & Lessons]

56 minutes ago, (XBOX)toughdragon17 said:

There are now 85 pages in this thread of mostly hate twords this pack and there had been no major discussion from the developers about it on any media besides Megan who put out the developers message (not blaming her for putting the message out)of what is basicly bandaid on a 40 caliber bullet wound 

Still waiting to see if they address it on the devstream on what there going to do with the pack and packs in the future (hopefully there will be no packs if this is how there going to treat them) 

Im just going to say this hear to keep it alive we want a 4th pack without the filler that makes the packs 70 to 90 dollars packs with just the cosmetics and skins for around 25 to 30 dollars

And I want a Maserati for $10, a 3 story house on the beach for $5, and FREE pizzas for life...

Just because you WANT something doesn't make it a reasonable demand, nor does it grant you the right to have it so.


NONE of us, yourself included, have any idea what went into the contracts that commissioned these skins, much less what DE plans to do with income from said sales...

For all you know, they're using it to hire more people and ease burden on their staff or accelerate the pace at which content is produced over time...  Maybe they're using it to pay back loans, perhaps they're just banking it for a rainy day...

Who knows?  THAT'S THE POINT. Y'all DON'T know, but yet people come out here so confidently declaring "foul play" just because they *simply don't like the price of something*. 

You don't HAVE to like it.  The price simply is what it is.  That's how a free market works.


This isn't some essential service.. they're not gatekeeping housing or food or healthcare... they're just charging for a digital product THEY provide for THEIR game (which they DON'T charge access for).  That's entirely within their rights to do so, and moreover, they've made the entire transaction completely transparent, so there's nobody "getting ripped off", because you get EXACTLY what you pay for.


It's JUST SKINS, for Ordis' sake!   I seriously cannot believe we STILL have to have this conversation in 2023 and explain to people like children that JUST BECAUSE YOU WANT IT, DOESNT ENTITLE YOU TO IT".  

Good grief...  the only greedy people I see here thus far are not DE, but the ones getting EVERYTHING for free, and STILL demanding DE give them MORE for free/less  (and YES, I am AWARE some of you aren't asking "for free, just cheaper", but that's essentially the same thing because at the end of the day, YOU'RE demanding you pay what you WANT and not what is being asked by the creator/artists who are making and delivering the work ... That isn't how things work in the real world in ANY business, kiddos)

[PSA: Heirloom Collection Platinum Changes & Lessons]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)Mastermitchel89 said:

its not about the cosmetics its how the Devs and leads or extras handle the game and its contents

Then its how they treat and maintain the community that Choose to join them

If they don't respect either, ( you can look at blizzard overwatch and 343 halo infinite team for that )

 

I don't respect games for nostalgia i respect the game Devs work and care 

Notch Minecraft, and Old Bungies Halos were the Best, not because nostalgia or gotcha boomer points, They were taken care of well and allowed their Communities to flourish on their own

Now days its for cash, Not for Respect

With all due respect, Tenno....  ALL companies exist "for cash".  That's Capitalism.  Those companies are not just machines that sit there churning out expansion after expansion for your favorite games for FREE with zero upkeep costs.

And these devs don't just create them out of the kindness of their hearts, either.

HOWEVER, two things CAN be true at the SAME time...  DE can be making Warframe content to pay the bills AND because they're passionate about it and the community.

This idea that it's "all just a cash grab!" is asinine, because it's always put forth in such a spiteful manner, and it completely disregards that ALL products and services you enjoy exist to "grab cash".  How else can they pay people?

The being said, Warframe ISN'T just remaining "as-is", sustaining... it's trying to GROW, to EXPAND... and that means it needs to generate MORE capital than before to fuel said expansion...  WF1999 isn't materializing from nothingness, ya know?

These are SKINS.   S  K   I   N  S.   They aren't REMOTELY essential for gameplay.  I love them, too, and also cannot afford them at all.... but that's a me problem.

DE isn't some "scummy" or "shady, greedy" company just because they exist in the same economic system as every other business mentioned in this thread...  They're simply doing what they need to do to not only keep the lights on, but to get AHEAD and go FURTHER than they've been...

I mean, life has gotten more expensive for ALL of us in recent times, has it not?  Do you think those rising costs don't also affect DE and its employees?  Why wouldn't it?

Why do you think it's fine to demand MORE productivity of a company for LESS relative pay than they were making a year ago?  If the same were demanded of ANYONE here at their own jobs, they'd throw a fit about it. (and rightly so)

Also, this business about "FOMO IS EVIL" is bs, too..   it's simply a marketing strategy.  It's not "predatory".  There is NOTHING about this pack that DE has not been upfront about....

You know the price, and you know AND receive EXACTLY what you're paying for.   There's zero misleading narrative here. There's nothing sneaky. Nothing "predatory".  Overpriced? Sure, we can debate that... but cosmetics are ART, and as such, their value is entirely subjective...  So you'd be fighting an uphill battle to argue their price is too high or low or whatever.

Regal Aya, Plat.... those we have some objective consistency on... and based on those alone, this pack is a *STEAL*  (if you have the money, of course).


But seriously, the lot of y'all are just out here throwin' fits like overly dramatic teenagers (the irony does not escape me), and it's a damned shame.

DE put this out, but it does not exist in a vacuum.  We ALL received a TON of free stuff this year from DE.  Updates aside, we received the Dex Op/Drifter suit, multiple skins and Forma, etc.   Over the course of MONTHS, even, not just at Tennocon, to celebrate the anniversary.   So y'all need to drop this bs narrative that "All they did was put out this overpriced skin set! NOTHING FOR THE REST OF US?!?!"-- it's demonstrably false.

Honestly, if ya want it, you've still got like FOUR (4) MONTHS to get it, right up until the drop of the ball on NYE (ironically enough)... $90/16 (weeks remaining, roughly)= $5.63 a week... 

So, put aside a value meal PER WEEK, just ONE, and you'll have enough before the pack runs out.  Even a bit more isn't awful.

And I'm dirt broke, so I'm not saying this lightly.  I'm not one to say "just SAVE your way to getting what you want!" because I KNOW how hard that is for so many people, myself included!  But this is a GAME, not a NECESSITY.  Honestly, if you ARE in the above group, we SHOULD be glad we even HAVE games like Warframe that we can still play, even when everything else is unaffordable and out of reach.

If that means one or two skins here or there escape us, then that's sometimes the price of "free" for the rest of us.


And don't even get me started on the sheer lack of understanding of business displayed herein...  Some of y'all really need to not be so bold as to shout from your armchairs at those who are actually professionals DOING the thing for a living...  The Dunning-Kruger is real x.x  Good grief...

Anyways, this post is already way too long, but I just can't stomach seeing all this ridiculous bashing going uncontested, when we SHOULD all be talking about all the other amazing things that came from TennoCon.  Y'all would rather complain about the one menu item you CAN'T afford, rather than enjoy the hundreds of others that you are GIVEN for FREE...

Entitlement at it's worst, I swear.

Be better, Tenno.

[Eidolons and Sentients aren't the same thing.]

On 2020-03-31 at 9:18 PM, (XBOX)LZonut said:

That the Eidolon can merge smaller pieces of itself and that it has some spectral connection to the plains. These don't necessarily make the Eidolon a non-sentient but it does make them a special/unique one among them.

Super late to this discussion, I guess, but I was perusing the forums after TNW and found this interesting topic.

To me, Eidolons are Sentients in much the same way that in the anime/manga "Bleach", Vasto Lorde and Arrancar are also Hollows.  It seems more of a power ranking or tier of evolution than it is a separate species.

[Plague Star was disappointing.]

12 hours ago, AEP8FlyBoy said:

Would rather the Hemocyte have its own unique model and not just be a recolored Lephantis, but that's just me.

Floof would be okay too.

Though I do agree for the most part, I'd say lore-wise, it's not unlikely for the Infestation to reuse a "form" it's taken before to fight back.  It's sort of how the Infested work... It just keeps cloning, learning, improving, and making stronger versions of the same forms.

But yeah, something new is always nice.

 

[Intrinsics reward problem]

5 hours ago, (PS4)Quantaminum said:

yup, but even then it takes a lot of grinding to max everything.

...which i don't mind, tbh.  Warframe, at least to me, is more about the journey than the destination, ya know?

 

[Let’s put this “Warframe is pay to win” thing to rest]

I'm really not even sure what the point of this thread is anymore >.>

I feel like the title would more aptly be "Business seeks to make profits off game mechanics they designed! How dare they!?"

Yes, Warframe sells stuff.  No, there's nothing to "win", as there is no competition in-game, save for those you imagine to be real.  DE has no annual/quarterly competitions. They have no "seasons" where players compete head-to-head for notoriety or money.  They have no function in this game that you could not enjoy without spending a dime.

I mean, even weapons that are MR locked aren't a thing past, like, MR 18, maybe?  I'm MR24 and I haven't bought a single frame or weapon outright. Ever.  That doesn't make me lesser or greater than anyone else, that isn't to brag.  It's just to prove the point that I got where I got through practice and patience, and anyone else can to.  

How that translates to "pay-to-win" is beyond me.  You can't pay to break through the Rails.  You can't pay to defeat ALL the quests.  Even in the case of the drones in RJ, you first have to FARM the part to rush-repair it. 😛

[Intrinsics reward problem]

17 minutes ago, (PS4)Quantaminum said:

 

Affinity booster works on Intrinsics, since it's just affinity converted.

 

 Ah, cool...for sure?  I thought as much, but have seen so many here contradicting that so I figured perhaps I was wrong or ill-informed...