Rambit23Z
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Posts posted by Rambit23Z
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1 hour ago, TheGreenGunner said:
Wow, that's unecessarily tedious...thanks for enlightening me, though.
Or just highlight the text you want to quote and press the "Quote Selection" button that appears.
BTW, for Alad V, you only have to take out Alad's shields to be able to damage Zanuka. No need to down him.
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8 minutes ago, SergeantSunshine said:
Don't bring it up, they might.
Patch Notes for 22.20.8:
- Fixed a bug causing the Play button to work.
- Fixed DE success bug, is supposed to be bankrupt.
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9 hours ago, SyBuhr said:
Still doesn't change the fact that if a Nullifier spawns on the spores, or on you, that you will either lose your stacks, or lose the spores entirely.
When does a Nullifier spawn ON you, the only time I can think of where that happens is fissure missions and even then, they get stunned giving ample time to respond.
QuoteThere is no counter to something you have no perception over when it will appear or where it will appear.
They are giant glowing blue/yellow balls, it's pretty difficult to miss.
QuoteThe problem here is that, given how her spores are gimped in terms of spreading, either due to team-mates or spawns, if multiple Nullifiers spawn and are spread out, their bubbles will remove the spores on your spread victims, Curing a lot of spored enemies. That's the problem, and that's just how Nullifiers work. The key with this point, and point number one is to address how you felt Nullifiers were not an issue to Spores, and they obviously are.
I think you've misunderstood what I meant by "Nullifiers are not a problem". Yes they hurt your spores and it's an intended effect that the player has to deal with.
QuoteYes, you can do that (I've had to do that, and some other janky stuff to kill them). It doesn't change the fact that the bubble still went out and potentially cured your enemies. This is more of a problem with the strange enemy spawns, more than anything else, but it is definitely more exacerbated with spores, and other AOE abilities.
Again, the problem here lies within spawns, not spores. Better to solve the root cause than make a bandaid to avoid it.
QuoteThat's the difference between her 2.0 days and now. Before, I didn't need to cast a 75 energy (100 back then, if I recall right) ability for trash. I could cast her spores, have them spread viral, get the energy back if I wanted with Toxic Lash. Her one felt good at every stage of the game, where-as now you will only potentially find it useful at high-level content.
I'd much rather have a frame that scales well, than one that "feels good" in non challenging content.
QuoteRemember, I love damage! But I don't think that is what Saryn is all about.
But that's what the devs think, and they ultimately have the final say in this, if they want Saryn to be a DPS frame, that's what she'll be.
QuoteBefore she filled the Viral-Debuff niche
Still does, just requires more energy. Thankfully, having the largest energy pool (Prime) and decent armour for Rage/Hunter's Adrenaline solves that problem. I'm running a maxed Blind Rage, no other efficiency mods and still have very few energy issues.
Quotewas excellent at doing that while remaining relevant at any stage of the game. Now, she has a one that essentially does a Localized Corrosive Projection with Damage, of which you will not really see the benefit of stripping armor if your team-mates bring in Corrosive Projection.
Your point about Corrosive Projection is true. But she can also allow the entire team to switch to something like Growing Power, because Spores shred quite quickly. Remember the first couple Corrosive procs are the most important.
QuoteThe spores no longer spread on death, something they should not have done at all, but had to in order to control the insane spread these monsters now have, and even that is going to fall flat on its head.
It's a lot easier to keep spores spreading now that directly casted Spores always spread and Miasma temporarily grants automatic spread. Have you actually played with Saryn 3.6? It made a huge difference and removed a lot of the frustration with spore spreading.
Quote"But aren't all DPS frames?" Well yes, but that was not the intended design direction for Saryn.
Not back then, but it is now. One thing I learned really early in Warframe was to expect changes, huge ones. Damage 2.0, Melee 2.0 (3.0 Soon), Parkour 2.0, etc.
QuoteIf you look at her 2.0 Days, she filled the role of Debuff frame, with Corrosive on Miasma, and Viral on Spores.
With Viral, you mean. Miasma was actually pretty bad back then because it did not proc Corrosive and as such the damage didn't really amount to much.
QuoteWhy was this great? Because it would be incredibly rare for your spores to out-right kill, but it was practically a given for them to afflict Viral on enemies, which was great because you have nothing else, other than weapons, to apply a viral debuff to a large group of enemies.
Except Miasma, now.
QuoteThe changes now made it more costly to apply that viral on a large group of enemies, and for maximum benefit, you need to be at the epicenter of all the enemies around with Miasma, and not die.
Which is why she was given a better Molt and yet more Armour.
QuoteWhile yes, during this 2.0 time-frame, she could be a DPS/Burst Damage Monster, you could also fill in the role of Support/Debuff exceedingly well, and this is what I miss the most about her.
I wouldn't say exceedingly well, Viral is practically just a 2x damage boost. Compare that to the 10-15x damage boosts from Banshee. Hell, slap 100% extra Power Strength on a Rhino and you've achieved almost the same result with added Durability, Mobility, Proc Imunity and Crowd Control.
QuoteShe just feels like another forced-DPS frame balanced around one single game-mode, rather than the all-rounder she used to be.
How was Saryn an all-rounder? She did some debuff and that was it. She had Minimal CC (still does) and high burst damage with one weapon.
QuoteAlso, the entire concept of having stacks is to be attached to them, that's the point of farming them up. If you feel it is best not to be attached, then there is something wrong with how they implemented, in my opinion.
Depends on the stacks, some stacks are meant to be fleeting. Think of the Arca Titron. Wheras someone like Nidus who slowly build stacks over time are more suited to stack hoarding. This is why I disregard Duration and build for 222% Strength, which reduces the recast cost to 8-9% and I attempt to avoid decay completely by recasting often.
Quote(Elemental Enhancement Quote) - I am actually concerned about elemental enhancement actually being a positive thing for players, rather than a hindrance... Sort of ironic, isn't it? The thing that is supposed to stop you, actually helps you. I'll have to actually make a serious go of it at some point.
Kinda like the life drain nightmare modifier, which is basically free healing.
QuoteYes, PUGs are always a gamble. However, with most other frames, and Saryn during her 2.0 days, they still felt effective at what they did. Again, you either steal the kills with her now, or you don't do anything of importance, because 9 times out of 10, there are 2 other players who are also playing high-DPS frames like Equinox and killing everything around you before you can do anything yourself, and that is the problem that goes back to the Design-Direction change she has received.
Again, mostly a solo/duo player. Can't comment too much on this.
QuoteBefore, she was primarily a Debuff frame, with DPS. Now she is just DPS, and trying to even consider using her Miasma, at 75 base energy a pop to spread viral, is just a bad call on their part.
If you need to debuff your enemies, they're probably high enough level to give you enough energy to do that via Rage/Hunter's Adrenaline. And if they're not high enoigh level to provide energy then you really didn't need the debuff in the first place.
It honestly sounds like you'd be better off with something like Nova, 2x damage buff, slow/speed and spreads automatically.
Quote"Saryn wasn't that Strong", I think we'll have to disagree on that point unfortunately. I never used Gas-Lanka with her (although I should have, since I had a riven for it at the time). I never utilized her Molt-Tower Combo either. I built her purely for spreading viral spores, and at the end of the game, I would do well. Saryn was always strong, because it isn't about the damage number at that point, it's about how much health the enemy has left over from the viral procs, which was always half, and considering most people at that time were still running Corrosive Projection (because why wouldn't you remove a ton of armor from an enemy for nothing?) she was really great. Mind you, that Viral is effective against nearly all factions, where-as her spores are not as effective now against Corpus and Infested (unless the infested get armor from a mutalist or something). Saryn didn't necessarily need the damage numbers (although you could easily get them then, too), and that's what made her strong. You could play her, debuff everything, and feel like you were an asset to the team, where-as now you will be combatting between 1-2 other players who may have thought, "Hey, you know what, I'm going to relieve some stress and kill everything around me with my 4th ability on Equinox".
True, armour shred is not the best against Corpus and Infested, but the damage is. Corrosive has bonuses against Ferrite armour and Fossilized Infested but one thing that people don't really think about is that Corrosive has only one weakness. Fun fact, I've been running Corrosive on my Supra for the last 2-3 years. Never switched elementals because it's that damn good.
It is only weak against Proto Shields (-50%) and the only non-bosses that possess proto shields are Techs, Corpus Wardens and Targets(They don't really matter), Sniper Crewmen and Nullifiers. These are the only enemies that Spores are weak against, any other enemy will take full damage. And guess what, those enemies listed, are really weak to Toxin, to which I'm just gonna say:
Toxic Lash.
And again, she debuffs better now with Corrosive and Viral procs, as opposed to just Viral.
QuoteYou mean to tell me that, recasting a 25 energy ability (12.5 after subsequent cast), that might not even spread because of a bad tile-set, is a fix?
That target will always spread spores. Because directly spored targets will always pop the spores on death. The only time it won't is if there's not an enemy within a 37 meter radius, in which case, why even cast spore on that target in the first place.
QuoteAnd both those issues will still always impose a risk of losing damage that you worked hard to get, because each recast reduces your stacks by 20%
Sure, if you're running no Strength. My spore recast only costs me about 9%.
Quote(plus an added -10%/s, if you fail to do so before your team kills the enemies), which becomes more punishing the more stacks you get.
Spores are supposed to spread if killled by an ally.
QuoteWhy? Because she didn't have the ludicrous Damage design she has now, due to how Viral innately scaled.
And the Viral still scales, she didn't lose any debuffing utility.
QuoteSo if a Bursa spawns behind you, and you can't react quick enough, "Too bad, that's on you", right? Yeah, no. I don't buy that either.
Yes that is on you. They don't spawn within attack range and Lotus even warns you when they spawn.
QuoteSure, if you see a Scrambus in your view, I'd agree. But I'd wager that more often than not, enemies spawn in your blind spots, and they always know what you are doing.
Animal Instinct is a wonderful mod, and even if my Sentinel dies, just being on guard makes all the difference. When you fail to avoid the nullifying attack, you abilities will suffer. Just how failing to avoid something like Napalm Rockets will cause your health to suffer.
QuoteYou can't dodge everything, that's just how it is in this game, but to pin that solely on the player is heavy-handed, and you must agree, that at some point, you get pulled in by a bursa, and lost your stacks (and thus, your utility to the team).
I can't actually remember the last time I got pulled by a Bursa. Again, when Lotus warns me about the bursa, it is my top priority to take it out. Oh, and Miasma's short stun works wonders for safely getting behind them.
Without Nullifying effects this wouldn't even be a game anymore. It's one of the few things that can combat the broken stuff we players have access to.
QuoteI respect that you think she is good as a DPS frame, but as a Saryn 1.0, 2.0, and now 3.0/3.5 player, I can't agree on it.
So you haven't tried Saryn 3.6? Because the difference is surprisingly large.
Anyway, as you said; Agree to Disagree. At least we had a civil discussion. Not often you get that on the internet these days.
Have a nice day.
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Nice.
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There needs to be a limit though. Otherwise this would happen:
Tigris Prime + Scroll Wheel + Unlimited ammo buff.
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47 minutes ago, SyBuhr said:
>Nullifiers are not really a problem.
They are when your stacks depend on spreads, so I don't know how you can say that.
Which is why you kill the Nullifiers. They are a challenge to overcome, and once you do spores can spread as usual.
47 minutes ago, SyBuhr said:You are not always going to have just one nullifier, you will likely have 2-3 on the field, sometimes more, as you go higher in levels.
Yes, and? Not seeing the problem here. Maybe it's a playstyle issue or a build issue but the first thing I did when Nullifiers were added was to figure out the best ways do get rid of them, they've been in the game for quite a while now and have been nerfed several times.
47 minutes ago, SyBuhr said:I can't imagine how you would think that, I am sure you have had at least one instance where the nullifier spawned in the walls, and still had a massive bubble, or the bubble-blower was in the wall, preventing it from being one-shot. I have had both those things happen to me, but if you haven't, I am glad for you.
It has happened to me a few times. Either I just shoot the bubble when it appears or kill it with punchthrough when possible. This is less of a problem with Nullifiers and more general enemy spawning issue.
47 minutes ago, SyBuhr said:Sorties are high-level missions. I mentioned it before, but the majority of Star-Chart is not the same as Sorties.
Yes, and low level content can be cleared by pressing 4. You wouldn't bring 2 metric tons of planks to build a shed, likewise, there's no need to cast spores at that level.
47 minutes ago, SyBuhr said:I should also mention you played her Solo, so you aren't hindered by your team, only by the tile and spawns, which ultimately helps you, because the entire new design of Saryn, as I've stated before in this topic, is to be selfish.
I am a bit biased because my network is not well suited for online play, especially if the game gives me host. Therefore I only really go Public for Fissures and maybe interceptions. And as for the selfishness of Saryn, doesn't that go for all dps frames? A Mesa can easily hog all the kills, So can an Ash, Nidus, Excalibur, etc. And she does work well with allies that can kill. Remember spores are supposed to spread when an ally kills a spore host.
i've found that it's best not to get too attached to spore stacks, which is why my build sacrifices duration for strength.
47 minutes ago, SyBuhr said:Also, I should go on note, that the Mission Variant Elemental Enhancement, probably actually aided you, since it allowed you to get off more stacks earlier because spores were not the cause of death, and subsequently allowed you to pop those spores.
Fair point.
47 minutes ago, SyBuhr said:Consider that Warframe is a multiplayer game for a moment, take her through all those mission types again with a Pick-up-Group of some randoms. You are either going to get all the kills, or get frustrated with your team for making you waste energy. Conversely, your team of randoms may be entirely sick of how Saryn is currently forced to play in a selfish manner now, and do everything in their power to prevent you from utilizing spores (which has happened to me four times now). She doesn't excel in Spy (obviously, never really did), doesn't do fantastic in Mobile Defense. The only modes I've had staggering success with her, are Defense (Stationary), Survival (Depends on enemy spawn rates, and locations), and occasionally Exterminate. Mind you, I've done all of those with PUGs, a bunch of random people who either hate the new Saryn or work with her.
Again, I was never a fan of PUG squads in the first place, no matter what frame I or others play. And that's the thing with PUGs, they're a gamble.
47 minutes ago, SyBuhr said:No one Disputes her Power; She is strong. It isn't the cause of why I think the rework is bad, and I dislike her. She was already strong in 2.0.
Saryn 2.0 wasn't that strong. She had utility and one really good interaction with the Lanka. Before Saryn was a weapon-centric frame with abilities that debuffed. (And some buff with old Toxic Lash)
Whereas now Saryn the actual frame is strong, similiar to Nidus.
47 minutes ago, SyBuhr said:Bad Tile Set? Too bad. Bad enemy Spawns? Too bad. A bunch of Nullifiers Spawned and killed off your spore spreads? Too bad. A nullifier bursa just shot out a bunch of those mini Nullifier bubbles, and you just stepped into one?
All of these were fixed when we got the ability to recast.
47 minutes ago, SyBuhr said:A nullifier bursa just shot out a bunch of those mini Nullifier bubbles, and you just stepped into one? Too bad, there goes some of your stacks. A Scrambus used his ability, and you didn't notice? Too bad.
And these are honestly player mistakes. if you got hit by the ability countering attack, your abilities will suffer.
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11 minutes ago, SyBuhr said:
If you think for a moment that Saryn is now GOD-TIER, THE BRINGER OF DEATH, well you're only ~1% correct, because that's only true for Onslaught.
People keep saying that Saryn sucks for other mission types yet, I've brought her to Sorties, solo, with unmodded weapons and still clear enemies efficiently.
Hell, one of those Sorties was elemental enhancement as well.
Oh, and Nullifiers are not really a problem. Shoot the bubble or kill the nullifier and the spores are back to murdering.
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I remember seing a level 40 hyekka one-hit an Inaros once. Boxes were your best friend during that time.
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I've been running ESO exclusively solo with Saryn. And I have 3 ways to go about it.
1. Modern Military Shooter, find a corner or a chest high object and spray from behind it.
2. Constant bullet-jumping, it reduces enemy accuracy by quite a bit, even wall latching can work.
3. Do the Health > Energy > Rage/Hunter's Adrenaline loop.
I generally combine these three depending on Tile, faction and situation.
If you're Curious about builds.
Saryn: Vitality - Steel Fiber - Primed Flow - Hunter's Adrenaline - Blind Rage - Transient Fortitude - Stretch - Overextended - Handspring - Growing Power
Any ranged weapon + A Nikana Prime built for Slash proc and Crit with Life Strike and Condition Overload to take advantage of Saryn's innate 3 status procs + Slash Procs + Cold from my Artax.
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What Saryn really needs now is slight tweaks. Like, With Primed Continuity decay is at 7% and with all four duration mods it only goes down to 5%. Currently, Going for lots of strength is much more beneficial than duration because you can keep up with the decay a lot easier due to higher Growth.
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I feel like duration doesn't slow down the decay enough. I tested 3 builds:
222% Strength + 73% Duration
194% Strength + 100% Duration
164% Strength + 155% Duration
(All of these had 235% Range and 45% Efficiency)
They performed fairly similarly but the problem with the duration build was that if I lost a particularly large amount of spores, it was significantly harder to build them up, whereas with full strength I could build up stacks fast enough to make up for it. Not to mention that even though the Duration build only has 7% Decay rate, it also has 15% Recast cost. Compare that to the strength build, that has 11% Decay rate and 10% Recast cost.
It was simply more efficient to constantly cast new spores as I went along because of the faster build up. Also, because decay is percentage based and growth is capped to a flat amount it means that there will always be a point where the decay will be too fast for you, but with the strength build it's at least easier to keep up with.
Granted, the duration build is a lot less energy hungry due to longer lasting Toxic Lash and the Viral proc from Miasma lasts longer but that wasn't a problem due to Steel Fiber and Hunter's Adrenaline.
And the In-between build was worse than both.
She's still strong with huge DPS output, but it requires lots of Micromanagement to make it work. Which I honestly don't mind that much.
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7 minutes ago, Laveillon said:
Oh man, how i miss the old 'thu-dumm' launcher sound...
It was quite the jumpscare when you forgot it was updating in the background.
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14 minutes ago, EchoesOfRain said:
I know that Nidus, Harrow, and Saryn are all "his thing", but I honestly hope that Pablo can do some other frame reworks. A lot of the frame reworks needed more time and attention given to them. Whereas they normally would have just left Saryn 3.0 as she was and called it a day, Pablo really kept an eye on feedback and continued onto Saryn 3.5. He's making sure that Saryn is perfect before he calls his project complete.
I pray that he gets to work on the Titania/Wukong rework
Yeah, Pablo seems be able to come up with new and interesting solutions to make a frame scale into late game without completely trivializing said content.
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Doesn't Oberon and Volt already have that? They are treated as shoulder cosmetics that can be swapped or removed, if my memory is correct.
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6 minutes ago, Sammy said:
As a Vazarin player, it can be really hard to find my teammates in a fight to heal and make them immune, I think as part of the HUD rework we should get an option for teammates health bars to be more visible. Showing energy would also be nice for Zenurik/Trinity players.
This already exists. Press "Z" during a mission to bring up ally Health bars on the side.
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7 minutes ago, (XB1)Danowat32 said:
Nope.
Augur will add 90% to your base IPS damage (physical impact, puncture, slash),
Somewhat true.
+Damage mods boost the innate elements if a weapon features innate elemental damage, such as weapons like the Stug.
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31 minutes ago, KargorX said:
"Tenno SKOOM"
FTFY
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10 minutes ago, AreeSoothsayer said:
Maybe in other forums but all you have to do is hover your mouse over the title to see inside.
Doesn't work on the latest topics tab.
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Full rework is probably the best. Maybe if she had her own unique mechanic that boosts and augments how she plays,. What that mechanic would be is something I have no ideas for, though.
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They also have the wrong color. Mine used to be purple and now they look like this:
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12 minutes ago, (PS4)a1-w23e_r4 said:
We saw with damage 2.0
2.5*
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6 minutes ago, Fosuya said:
Prior to the change I could do 11->12 Zones ESO with my Saryn reliably, What build and weapons were you using for this effect?
Moar datas help with catching what's good, bad and what would need tweaking! :)Just my weird Slash-Crit-Combo-Status-ConditionOverload Nikana Prime build. But I did 99% of the damage with just abilities, as that's what I wanted to test.
As for stats on the Saryn:
100% Duration
45% Efficiency
160% Range (Planning to swap out Cunning Drift for that Duration Augur mod)
199% StrengthThis is on my Solo Saryn build so I've prioritized utility mods like Handspring and Rush (I love Rush).
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Just managed 9 zones on Elite Sanctuary Onslaught solo with just abilities and a non-slide melee.
This is a huge buff in Higher levels, level 100 Napalms melting everywhere. She is even more reliant on high enemy level and density than before, but for the amount of damage she can put out, it's entirely worth it.
My Feedback on Missions and Levels in Warframe
in Missions & Levels
Posted
Funnily enough, I can't even say if I think it's intuitive or not. It's been so long since that fight was added that I can't remember how I figured it out.