Quistris
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Posts posted by Quistris
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Oh boy. A call to post. I'm about to get my head down, but I'll check this out tomorrow and give you some feedback on it.
Edit: Everything below that/the actual post
So,
Wow, this thread went places.
Lemme start by saying that I do hope people like just be chill about this entire thing. Like, I get that it's a topic of passion for a lot of people - I'm one of them, Ember was one of my favourite frames when I picked her up, just on looks and theme - but being strident, rude, or hateful is uncalled for.
@FrostDragoon, I hate to open up like this, but I feel like both the title of the thread and the opening post itself are kinda bridging that line. Like, I get where you're coming from on some of them, but accusing an entire group of people for causing a developer choice, and then belittling the notion of content creators using opinions as content - which is kinda what we're doing, when you think about it, isn't all that different, just a lot slower. We're putting forth and weighing and debating various opinions and facts and viewpoints. So while I appreciate the passion, I don't think that kinda tone is helping put forth any sort of either valuable argument or feedback. Disagreement is fine, but disdain over a difference of opinion is basically where toxcicity starts. Yeah, it's understandable if someone's opinion is disgusting or vile (like wanting to support human trafficking or something) but just because you disagree over the design of a character in a game is a bit too much by a bunch.
So, let's talk these things mentioned.
On 2019-10-22 at 9:41 PM, FrostDragoon said:Her WoF in that state was an aoe aura that did reasonable damage to enemies and could kill them comfortably until right about Sortie levels, where she began to fall off (not even including Sortie modifiers). Accelerant would then be needed for her to continue scaling, but would eventually fall off again anyway. Having to use Accelerant constantly created an energy strain that would result in difficulty maintaining WoF anyway (under normal circumstances). Not only this, but Ember is a squishy frame that would struggle to survive at that level of content if she took more than a few hits at a time, or a well-placed Bombard rocket. We never got to see her in that state before Nox came into the game, but I have a feeling Nox would giver her a lot of trouble (not counting the weapons you carry). She could sacrifice some of her ability effectiveness in favor of the augment that caused WoF to knockdown enemies. This was an effective way to keep her safer, but she was always at some risk. Then you have Infested ancients ruining her effectiveness, Corpus nullifiers basically saying "idgaf," Corpus LOLerskaters, and the generally large presence of knockdowns/pulls/shields among enemies in the game that--at high enough levels--meant she became very weak very quickly past a certain point in missions.
I never played Ember at that time, (people speak of it like some sort of halcyon days, but I have some reservations about that,) so I have little to offer on this point. I feel like the Firequake Augment point probably has some merits, although that's never been my experience with it. Nullifers kinda are trouble for most powers-based playstyles/frames, unless they're of the self-buffing sort. The Infested I do feel has some merits, emotionally if nothing else. Who here hasn't looked at the infested and gone "Kill it with fire!"? But the trouble is, that while Ember seems like she'd be good against the infested, her lack of a firm way to deal with the synergistic nature of them runs into issues. Her effectiveness can be kept up by using some fairly non-standard builds, though. A lot of them were discussed in a threat I started a while back looking for advice on how to get Ember to work, a bit before the rework was announced.
On 2019-10-22 at 9:41 PM, FrostDragoon said:As for WoF specifically, the only other frame that has an ability really like it is Equinox' Maim, but it operates in a fundamentally different role. Maim doesn't do the upfront damage that WoF does and has a more primary use in building up its charge to release all at once. WoF was about continuous damage in an aura around her. I don't know why so many devs feel like auras are somehow a bad thing, but some of the best games have made great use of them and they make for a nice playstyle alternative that simply isn't present in other types of abilities/effects. Diablo 2 even had some top end (and super expensive) builds that utilized auras to such a degree that they could stack a bunch of them to run through an area passively destroying all the weak trash while saving your attention and harder hitting abilities for the stronger enemies, for example. League of Legends used to have a bunch of items that granted aura, but they bought into that bad notion that somehow those were "free stats" despite having to spend gold--and more importantly, item slots--in order to provide them. But you have to see, that's the thing: WoF as an aura to focus on required you to invest in building that frame a specific way which was less optimal for most of her kit. We see this as a core design principle across many frames and abilities in the game, so I never bought into this weird notion that somehow WoF was different and deserving of a nerf--let alone being removed in the name of "rework" the way it is in the upcoming update.
In some ways I agree with you on this, in others I don't.
I think there are two large problems with this that prevent the argument from ending up fully true. But let's back up first.
Auras are tricky. "Always on, always working" powers (especially ones that scale well) are HELL to balance in terms of game design, doubly so if a game allows for a lot of flexible increases in power and synergistic buffing. The line between being underpowered and overpowered on them is often times very, very fine. And the slightest change and potentially upset that. So, I can't exactly blame the Devs for being leery of aura that aren't strictly on one side or the other (IE: Enemies buffing enemies/Allies buffing allies). I don't necessarily think being able to sit and chill in a mission from time to time is a bad thing, but I'm not trying to design this, and I do see the sense and logic of wanting to squash that, to try and keep players more fully engaged with the game. (I feel like DE's been making this push in that direction of late, and we're slowly starting to see the fruits of that development direction).
I don't think the notion of it deserving somewhat special attention is weird. You said yourself it's a highly unique power: by definition, unique things are different from the norm. And, in a design perspective, you generally want to look at unique things with careful attention and scrutiny.
Where I do agree with on this is that I do feel its removal took something different and relatively unique out of the game. But I don't inherently feel like it was unwarranted attention. As far as the nerf goes, that's a bit complicated and I'll address it in the next section.
On 2019-10-22 at 9:41 PM, FrostDragoon said:I know the common argument was that "nobody else got to play," but to that I would simply state that tons of other things in the game can produce similar effects, so why is WoF special in that? Truth of the matter is that it isn't. It was pointless crying from content creators that went basically unquestioned and how Ember's rework is going to be a hodge-podge of other frame's abilities and concepts rolled into her (like that stupid Gauss battery mechanic that she doesn't need at all).
I think your tone really is out of line here. Like, I can appreciate the argument you're trying to make, but you go from making a relatively coherent point into a mass ad-hominum attack. That's uncool. I maaaay be mispelling 'ad-hominum', not sure. But yeah, either way. At best it just makes you look whiny and reduces the impact of any argument you might be making. At worst, you'll just be another ass for people to dismiss.
So, the reason why I wanted to talk about the nerf bit here is because I think you're partly right. There's tonnes of other things in the game that can delete whole rooms or levels of enemies really really quickly. The thing is, I'm pretty sure that the devs, while not being entirely down on this, are down on this that do this that also mean you don't have to do anything.
The problem with Ember's move is that you don't really have to do anything.
With the right build, even in her current state, you can sit in a defence mission or just slowly walk around the pod for 30 waves and you'll be fine. I didn't even have to stop to use an energy pad, the energy drops on their own were enough.I feel like this is the issue that they're trying to address, and it is something of a unique issue. Equinox's Maim - the next closest power - can't do this for 30 defence waves. (At least, not in my experience). You have to pop it, you have to remain at least partly focused on the game. It's not just a 'fire and forget' weapon. So while I do think that your statement is right, I think I have to disagree that that World of Fire isn't special. You even suggested it was special (you used the term 'unique', if you want to be particular,) yourself earlier in the post. Giving something special treatment because it's special - at least to my mind - basically seems warranted. Now. Does this mean I wanted World on Fire gone? Nooooooo. I liked the idea of World on Fire. I certainly feel World on Fire could be made to work. But I can also see the problem the devs were trying to solve. Do I agree with how they solved it? Ehhhhh... I'm a bit underwhelmed, but I don't think it's inherent bad. More just disappointing, as I do feel that it should have been solvable WITH keeping World on Fire, but I'm also not in their shoes. They've got a lot on their plates.
As a thought that just occurred to me as I was writing this bit, the devs also seem to be making an effort to start carefully scrubbing a lot of the 'low effort' ways of mass killing enemies out of the game. This is just my own hunch, but I suspect the movement to try and suppress the so-called "Spin to Win" playstyle so hard comes from the fact that basically everyone who used it did it via a macro, and not through actually playing the game normally.
Regarding the hodge-podge statement... I feel that's a bit reductionist. I mean, it's certainly true, in its own way, but aren't MOST Warframe abilities comparable to at least one other Warframe abilities? Intent, toolkits as a whole, different attributes, there's a lot that seperates different Warframes. I don't feel like the new Ember's kit is made up of stuff from different Warframes, myself, but I do feel like it is a bit of a hodge-podge. While overly simple, and definately in need of some love, the old Ember's kit made sense to me (1: Set fire to something, 2: make things set on fire get set on fire MOAR, 3: Set an area on fire, 4: Set EVERYTHING on fire. In the description of them, at least, I know it didn't play out that way) and seemed like it followed the them of burning... Well, everything, for varying degrees of everything. While I still think the new Ember's powers very much feel fire based - and I actually LOVE the notion of having to 'control the heat' and prevent yourself from burning along with everyone - the biggest source of my unease stems from the fact that I can't really sort out either A: what this kit is doing, or B: how it's really supposed to be used. Vauban's made a lot of sense to me, and like it had a lot of time and thought and love put into it. Ember's... Feels like a first draft to me.
Oh, and before we move on. The battery/controlling the heat thing. I LOVE the concept. I'm actually kinda worried about the current implementation. It seems... Punishing/like a lot of opportunities were missed. Her passive also seems... I dunno, odd? Like, her old passive was fun, if it didn't make sense. It'd have been kinda nifty if you maybe got a little energy back based on how many people were on fire or something, but I can appreciate that adding innate energy regen into a nuke frame is a balance NIGHTMARE. ...Assuming she is still a nuke frame? As noted, my biggest quibble with Ember is that I don't get what the 'theme' of the frame is anymore. I'll talk about that more, when I start replying some, but it's one of the things I feel is missing from her rework that I felt Wukong and Vauban got.
On 2019-10-22 at 9:41 PM, FrostDragoon said:The worst part about this isn't just how she's getting gutted in order to completely change her playstyle identity, but that in a virtual sense, she's being removed from the game. People who liked her pre-nerf don't get to play the frame they farmed or spent hard-earned plat for. Calling it a "bait and switch" is too strong and carries connotations of intentional dishonesty, but the fact is that the time/effort/resources put into getting her and building her up are now effectively being transferred to an entirely different animal. As if that wasn't insulting enough, the current idea displayed in the dev stream (subject to change, ofc) is a dumb nuke that drains all your energy instantly. I can't even express the level of dissatisfaction and disappointment properly without straying into behavior that could get me suspended from the forums.
Dude, if you need to stray into behaviour that would get you suspended in order to express yourself, you might need to consider some sort of speech classes, or maybe anger management or something. I used to have similar issues, it's just not a great way to go about things. I promise you can communicate intensity of emotions without also being a jackass, it's totally a thing people can do.
With that said, I do feel some of your points here. I think calling her as being gutted is probably unfair. I mean, if you want to say that, the old Wukong was gutted and Vauban is being gutted. Sometimes, overhauls need to happen. I think that might be one of the points we disagree on, though. I do think that the depth of changes was probably the correct choice.
If there's one thing I appreciate about your statement on the effort on her suddenly ending up on a different animal, it's that this is sort of the massive downside of big overhauls. Way back in the early days of Vanilla World of Warcraft there was a massive talent tree overhaul. For me, it utterly ruined playing a paladin tank, and I entirely gave up on it. If there's a point where I think I have to dispute you on, I don't think it's an insult, though. While I don't like to go and say things like "devs have a right to, blah, blah, blah", I do think in this case that the devs are generally upfront about the fact that Warframe is an evolving game, and it's sort of important to try and treat the current state of it as partly ephemeral. (and there have been rumblings of an Ember Rework since (I think) last year, when Pablo thought for a brief moment he knew how to fix Ember without making her overpowered) If anything, in a way, it's sort-of an inherent compliment: they're trying to improve an aspect of the game they know people enjoy and want to see get better. Doesn't always work, mind. And I do think that there both needs to be recognition of the fact that nothing else like Ember exists in the game. While I don't know that trying to get Ember... Changed again, will happen, I think that that's very much a point that should be brought to the Dev's attention. Speak up about what you liked about Ember, talk about ways in which you think it can fit into the current game as it stands and work with the direction that they want to take it, and try to address their concerns about AFK-mass-farming-ness and lack of engagement.
On 2019-10-22 at 9:41 PM, FrostDragoon said:So where's the playstyle for players who like offensive (and especially nuke) auras? Maim isn't the same thing, even if kind of close. Debuffs aren't even remotely close. Why should anyone care about Ember after the rework? Even if you want to discuss the fire proc changes, tons of weapons and a couple other frames can do that too, so the question stands.
I think, out of all of your post, this is the part that not only resonates with me the most, but also is the most on-point (barring one question) and communicates one of the biggest and probably least-noticed issues in the whole rework. The drastic re-working of Ember is taking away a potential playstyle that was fairly unique to the game. I do think Maim falls broadly within the same category, but having just one example of a playstyle as a single build on a single warframe does feel at best lightweight. Getting the devs to see what they are removing by doing this is important. Maybe they didn't know. Maybe they saw and meant to. But letting them know that this was important to you and that you enjoyed it and want to see something like this, have some kind of support for this in the game, is. I'd kinda like it to.
The one place where I think you drifted is the question "why should anyone care about Ember after the rework". That's a fairly specious statement. While I'm absolutely sure it's a question that you're feeling, what you really mean is "why should I care", at least, that's how it seems to me. There could be plenty of reasons to care about Ember after the rework. I don't have any to offer myself, but that's because I won't understand this new Ember until I play her, and I'm looking forward to discovering why I'll care about her. But doubtless plenty of people are excited or interested in her.
Your point on the fire procs is totally valid, and while the devs sort of packaged it together with Ember, Steve mentioned/hinted that this is actually some sort of super-slow, semi-stealth rollout of changes to the whole damage and armour system we have. For which I can only say thank the void for that.
So, that's basically my whole thing. I was curious, and while I do think your approach to the issue is kinda out of whack, I think you raise a number of cogent points, and the loss of an already undeserved playstyle is a particularly poignant one for me (a lot of online games I've played in the past had a NASTY habit of removing/heavily reworking my favourite playstyles). While I hope the devs do end up taking notice of the points you bring up in the post, I'd be concerned that your approach might end up pitting them against you or otherwise cause them to dismiss what I feel is valid and important feedback. Sorry about the massive post, but I hope you at least find it worth reading. :)
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1 minute ago, FrostDragoon said:
I've always been against them ruining ("nerfing") World on Fire, though wouldn't have minded the rest of her kit getting a rework since it felt so disjointed. Instead, they did it backwards for bad reasons that were repeated by the sheep among the community who listen to Youtubers/streamers instead of thinking about how that frame actually fits into the game. I almost don't even care what they do with her rework now that I've seen the preview in the dev stream showing that WoF is entirely gone and is now just a dumb single use nuke.
Ehhhh... I'm not... Lemme think of how to put this.
While I don't know exactly the Ember rework went the way it did and can't speculate, I think that might be reading too much into why they did what they did (unless they've said somewhere). While I do tend to lean that they've gone too far, though, I'm also very much in a 'wait and see' sort of camp. I feel like I'd want to sit down and pick the brains of whoever was behind the Ember redesign as to why they went with what they went with before I started either casting aspersions or saying that they did what they did in bad faith. I don't particularly like the looks of it myself, but there's just so many questions there that we don't really know the answer to to be able to say.
Although - while I'm not sure that this thread is the right place to have that discussion - I would be keen to know why you feel the rework was done backwards and where you felt Ember fit into the game as it stood, pre-rework announcement.
Also, speaking of disjointed, I actually feel like her old kit was more coherent than her new one. This new one sort of feels all over the place to me.
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55 minutes ago, (PS4)PanserKunst said:
I'd like AI for enemies to become more sophisticated. It's a tricky balance for sure as it's not just implementation and tuning but also what the engine can sustain performance-wise. As Warframe could be considered a nearly horde shooter? Performance is critical especially where consoles are concerned. You lucky or unlucky PC'ers (depending on your finances can adjust.) Would most people agree that AI for WF is more or less pretty simplistic? Seeing Elites in Halo Reach taking cover behind dynamic objects was pretty remarkable. Squads of Jackals in ODST maintaining formation and behaving like a cohesive unit. inter-dependency between one enemies behavior and another. I think this could be a good avenue to approach to not just improve sophistication but also engagement with the player(s).
I actually think this would be a really nifty way to go. And Halo on normal isn't considered some sort of grand difficulty challenge, is it?
Edit:
To be clear. I have only ever played the first Halo because at the time it was the only one to get port'd to PC. The PvP multiplayer was alright, but I did not care much for the campaign. I suppose it could have been fun with a friend, but they gutted the ability to play that from the game, for some reason. I never really thought the series was especially amazing? But generally I'd give it around a 6 out of 10 or so, definitely above average. Even there, though, I feel like the AI was more responsive than a lot of Warframe's AI usually is. But that performance issue pops up again, as usually there were like... Maybe 1/2 to 1/4th as many enemies on screen as in your average Warframe map room.
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32 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said:
To a point, I could agree, but the how is the problem.
Enemies can have energy drain as a passive aura that depletes you at a rapid pace, but Ember got completely f**ked over and is being "reworked" because her aura was "not engaging enough." Doesn't seem right.
I think the Ancient Disruptors are the example I would point to of energy drain done in an acceptable manner--if you can avoid taking damage from them, they can't drain you. Parasitic chargers are the other end, and that version is more what I was talking about as particularly cancerous design that should be removed from the game.
Yeah, I feel like we're on the same page here.
To dredge up the old CoX example, Malta Sappers basically had an attack on a windup that would delete a large chunk of your energy bar. You could do stuff to them in this windup: attempt to nuke them down, mezz them, pull aggro from a teammate, etc. You could interact with it.
That whole "massive energy drain aura" is a problem. There's no real notification of it, the enemies don't stand out, etc...
RE: Ember's rework. I haven't really made too much comment on it in the official thread yet, as I feel like everyone else's voice is loud enough already, but the further away from the announcement we are, the more I'm concerned about it. That, and my biggest issue is I really need some time to sit down and play with a frame before getting an opinion on it, and the rework is just so different.
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On 2019-10-16 at 10:23 PM, taiiat said:
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the Rubble for Health/Armor is valuable, yes. it's an integrated way to Heal, and you need some pretty crazy amounts of Armor to make the Stat reliable enough to care about in Gameplay.
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Enemies can partially bypass our Armor, dramatically reducing its effectiveness.
- Puncture Damage hurts us dearly, however atleast our Shields are a bit Resistant to it. so when taking Shield Damage we can stand against Puncture Damage acceptably, once our Shields break, it suddenly hurts a lot more.
- Toxin Damage hurts us massively, while it doesn't bypass our Armor as much, it's still extremely lethal to us.
- Corrosive Damage basically deletes us. however not that many Enemies deal this Damage Type, so thankfully you won't get deleted that often. but Enemies that do deal this Damage Type, are some of the most dangerous Enemies in the game.
- so since it's far from unheard of to have 25% or 50% of our Armor not exist, and rarely 75% - if we want to use the Armor Stat for survivability, we need a lot of it so that 3/4 or 1/2 of it is still a useful amount of Damage Reduction.
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Enemies can partially bypass our Armor, dramatically reducing its effectiveness.
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luckily for you, Rumblers scale with mostly the same Stats as all of his other Abilities. so you're not shooting yourself much by trying to focus on Rumblers.
- you would use some more survivability Mods than you might otherwise when aiming to go just for Rumblers, though. that'll be your main negative of focusing super heavily on them.
- ofcourse remember that Landslide takes your Melee Mods, that's where most of the power of Landslide comes from. like 4/5 of it.
Ah, taiiat, we meet again! And once again, you come to me with sage advice.
So... The issue of our armour and defences is something that's fairly new to me to... Mess with. Like, I get that we have it and things, but I've only recently started seriously contemplating how that effects us.
The explanation of exactly why the armour works as it does was very helpful, and helps explain part of why the Corpus at higher levels can hurt so much worse than the grineer (a lot of their weapons do puncture versus the grineer's impact-focus.
Regarding melee mods, if you have any suggestions for what sort of mods do and don't carry over, I'm all ears. I'm going to play around with a bunch of them. I'm also gratified to see that, at least through the Starchart and maybe sorties, a sort of 'stone summoner' build could conceivably work. I'll tinker with it, though. The notion of having to stack on more survivability mods in an already kinda tight (slot wise) build is worrying.
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the Rubble for Health/Armor is valuable, yes. it's an integrated way to Heal, and you need some pretty crazy amounts of Armor to make the Stat reliable enough to care about in Gameplay.
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On 2019-10-16 at 10:08 PM, hendrix923 said:
I farmed him last weekend. 3 forma. Hes different and fun. Slower paced frame. That armor and high health will save u from getting one shot if ur in a bad position or have to face tank a group of enemies, like 70min into Arbitration Survival (healing return is great). Does it matter in normal content no. 8 rounds of ESO and his armor buff wasn’t needed with adaptation on. I wish they made him punch thru enemies faster and his window for petrify is small and u can easily miss enemies if ur in a rush. I petrified a 120 Nox and he had trouble punching to kill him so I’m not sure how well it scales. His Rumblers I have to work on that ability more, not sure how great they are. Staying in one area locking a doorway down until it collects enemies then blowing it out and mayhem ensues. Petrifying and punching the rest of the area. That’s fun. Just my thoughts.
You made him sound a bit like Ash, which I guess makes some sort of sense, since the both start with the letter A.
Lemme expound.
Ash, I've come to find, works best as a sort of slow and methodical destroyer of a thousand lives. Proceeding through a mission at a more relaxed pace and making good use of his rather utility (and death) focused kit to modestly slaughter my way through everyone and everything. With some toying around, I think you were very much on the money with that.
So, with Healing Return, does that apply to your punches? If so, holy crap. I've got to try that.
I... DO agree with you on Petrify. I feel that really needs to take longer. I'm not sure why it's so short, but there we are.
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On 2019-10-16 at 8:39 PM, (XB1)BlueDually said:
The rumblers I have found are okay for pulling aggro. They could use a little polishing, but they work alright and I find them amusing. As I'll forget where they are head to punch an enemy and have them chuck a rock across the room knocking the enemy down or kill them.
I've cleared a half dozen planets with Atlas and made it thru the Second Dream quest with him. Petrify is handy, but Landslide is a life savor as you are invincible while punching. It would make short work of the Zealots even when they were higher level. And while it takes a little to get the Stalker down, upper cutting him is fun.
I also have Nyx and honestly Atlas' passive of not getting knocked down saves a lot of frustration.
Yeah, they work pretty alright for pull aggro/generally mucking up a crowd. And good lord, is not being able to get knocked down with Atlas nice. It means I can set my problems with Flame Eximii aside.
I've started using Atlas' Number 4 kinda like Nyx's Number 3, and I've found that that works out. It throws the enemy AI in the local area into a sort of brief chaos, which I can then take advantage of.
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Okay. It's been a bit. I've levelled up and used Atlas Prime a bit more. I'm ready to start replying to this mountain of advice you good people have blessed me with. It's been quite useful!
On 2019-10-16 at 7:12 PM, XaoGarrent said:if you're not using Vacuum or Fetch with Atlas, do so.
I do. I have to. I can't loot like a pleb. >.>;; I KNOW it costs a mod slot that could be used to make my companion more STRONK and that some builds don't really need it, but having gotten use to Vacuum somewhere around MR 4 I can't stop now. ...I don't have a problem, you have a problem.
On 2019-10-16 at 7:12 PM, XaoGarrent said:The way Atlas works is really simple: You run up to a group of enemies, hit 3 and then start going to town with your 1. Rinse, wash and repeat. His 2 is pretty much only there for gimmicks (blocking doorways on defense objectives) and his 4 is more about distraction and crowd control. It also petrifies enemies and produces rubble if you cast it in the middle of a group of enemies.
This and the explination was SUPER helpful to my understanding how to go about Atlas. I have to say, though, his 3 feels SUPER awkward to use. That time limit feels short as... ...Shorter than inch-high private eye. There we go. Not to mention I don't feel like I have a solid grasp of where the hell that cone goes. But that one is probably practice. Frost's cone use to baffle me slightly, until I adjusted. As did Oberon's... Thing. His Consecration, which... Is sort of LIKE a cone. But isn't. It's like some sort of cake-shape, with range dictating how many slices people have nommed from it.
On 2019-10-16 at 7:12 PM, XaoGarrent said:Atlas is a punch mage
This is the single best description of any Warframe I have ever heard up to this point. I may call my Atlas Loadout "Punch Mage" now, thanks to you.
On 2019-10-16 at 7:12 PM, XaoGarrent said:his 1 is boosted by your melee mods, scaled by the melee combo meter, and benefits from efficiency, ability strength and range, priority in that order.
Ooooookay. So... I sort of get this. When you say it's boosted by my melee mods, does this mean that its base damage is treated as a weapon and that my melee mods apply to it? Or that it somehow rolls my weapon damage into it? ...Why no, no I have never played a Warframe for more than the required mastery period that ever had this mechanic before, why do you ask?
I'm also assuming the following, please check me on the following:
- His Punches Do not add to the Combo Counter, just benefit from it
- Efficiency means I can cast it more, Strength is how many pushups I do at the Gym, and Range is... How far away I slide?
- Your elemental damage mods do NOT carry over from your weapon
On 2019-10-16 at 7:12 PM, XaoGarrent said:Atlas needs that armor when you start getting to levels above 80. Especially if you're doing long runs. Take your best tanky dude and wade into a mass of angry corrupted on Mot or Mithra after about level 80 or so and you'll start to understand why a pimped out Atlas has such high armor. You'll need it.
Ah. I rarely Mot. The damage boost is something I find annoying to deal with. I do longer runs elsewhere, though, and yeah, somewhere around level 100-150 I start running into survival problems, even with some of the more tanky frames that I play (although, to be fair, I don't play that many and I'm probably not that good.) So it DOES matter that I pick up the shards at full health. Okay, that... Complicates things. But okay.
On 2019-10-16 at 7:12 PM, XaoGarrent said:Atlas is better than most people think he is, but he's also a pretty simple frame with a few faults in kit cohesiveness and flexibility. For the most part, he really does just boil down making statues and punching them apart, but I'm not sure that's a bad thing. Some frames are meant to be more straightforward than others.
Speaking as someone who plays a LOT of Nyx, I think most frames that people dump on are better than most people think. Honestly, most stuff in the game is readily usable, it's more a matter of how much effort do you want to put into something to get it so that it commits massacres at the pull of a trigger (flick of the wrist for melee, I guess?). So I will believe that.
I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing, either, but it's good to know that I was just WAY overthinking this whole issue.
On 2019-10-16 at 7:12 PM, XaoGarrent said:And yeah, Nyx has... Problems. She's like Vauban in the sense that she got a mini rework that didn't really fix her fundamental flaws. She's way better than she used to be, but having 3 abilities that rely on enemy AI really hurts her.
Yeah. I know it's her thing but... Yeah.
I'm actually writing up a thing to DE talking about Nyx, that I may actually finish one of these days. I suppose Vauban had Rehtalius backing him. I guess I'm going to get behind Nyx and see what good pushing on her does. XD
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On 2019-10-19 at 1:57 AM, Joezone619 said:
I really like the "choose your difficulty" idea, i think what im trying to say with my post is things arn't challanging enough. in the higher level areas, the *difficulty* is hard enough, but theres no challange, i dont have to actually DO anything, just keep hitting the same enemies anywhere till they fall.
Things like the nox i think threw it in the right direction. enemies that CAN be damaged by normal means, but will only actually start taking REAL damage if shoot them here, or melee this, or hit that. enemies with specific weaknesses like that would be a fun way to rework heavy units.
Heavy gunners could have an ammo-pack on their hip that once shot, either explodes and does headshot-like damage or forces them to go to melee
Napalms could have a fuel tank on their back, that when stuck, explodes forces them to a normal gun, and/or just sets them on fire XD
Bombards should have bags of explosives near their legs, that explode when hit, blasting them across the room, or just flat out killing them.
Bursas should have a bit more damage resistance OR spawn more regularly, and have their shields able to be broken.
Ancients, should have their effects increased, but only able to effect a number of enemies. (although the infested seem pretty balanced in terms of "challange", they seem fine)
Stuff like that would be cool in a rework, giving them weaknesses like these and making them more damage resistant, or more of a threat to be picked out from a group first. Eximus units are due for a rework too but mostly because DE has somewhat neglected them over the years.
...I think I see what you're saying here.
While I'm not sure about the implementation you're suggesting, I definitely get what you're saying behind it. I've... started getting to the point where I can sit in a survival arbitration for about an hour on my own and come out with my skin basically intact. And you're right, it's... Not super engaging. It's difficult, yes. But it feels like a formula sort of difficult.
I've never played a Dark Souls game, so I can't honestly argue that I'd like for Warframe to go in that direction, but I think what you're speaking to is probably best summed up as a lack of engagement with the enemies. I can understand that, and I tend to agree with that. I'm choosing the term 'engagement' here, because it's relatively 'difficulty-neutral' as it were? It's something that the whole game could potentially use to improve itself without excluding anyone from doing it. Maybe it would be something that would matter at higher levels, where skill is more of a factor (around Sortie 2-3, I suppose. Post normal Starchart, certainly) but that doesn't necessarily make an enormous impact starting out in terms of ability to kill and get into the game. Again, I'm hoping that the Liches (and their counterparts) provide some diversity to this.
There's a counter-argument to this, which I will propose later, when I'm less tired. (In no small part, it's that it would take away the whole 'get into a groove and zone' vibe that Warframe can sometimes have and that I have also sometimes enjoyed.) I'm not against the notion, and in fact I'm pro more enemy engagement, but I think it's important to consider the opposite side and look for potential downsides or issues when discussing something, especially if you want the developers to actually give it a consideration.
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On 2019-10-19 at 2:42 AM, Joezone619 said:
Energy drain is a pretty sh*t mechanic, right behind Nullifiers. i agree. and abilitly Lock isn't really better either
I actually disagree with this. And hear me out on this one.
I don't think energy drain is a bad mechanic. The idea of an enemy that can rob you of your resources is a fairly solid one, from a design standpoint.
I think the entire problem is [DE]'s how.
As of right now, most Energy Drain units (Various names for the infamous Energy Leech Eximii) have a different colour scheme to their fellows. And... That's it. In a fast-paced game that sometimes has dozens of enemies in a room being a (sometimes only slightly) different colour to your fellows does NOT let me engage and counteract this. In general, I feel like Eximus units have... Issues, with the Energy Leech being the best example of this. It's just kinda there, a randomly much more durable enemy with a particularly obnoxious effect. If there was a better way to tell a priority target in this game apart from silhouette, I think that this problem might go away. I don't have an answer for that, but the major issue is that an Energy Leech Nox (let's say) looks almost exactly the same as a Nox, and shares the same core shape.
Way back in City of Heroes, there was this faction of enemies called Malta (or maybe The Malta, I don't remember). And their entire gimmick was that they carried anti-hero tech. Power suppression, energy drains, you name it. While the game was slower paced, and that helped, it was also fairly is to locate the different enemies that did the various sorts of issues, and it could, if you put work into figuring out how to approach them and weren't just trying to nuke everything as fast as possible, both make them a more interesting fight and could provide an enormous sense of satisfaction in taking out a whole group of them without a single hitch. And, energy drain was one of their main things. Did all their units have it? No. Some were just basic 'dudes with guns', but basically we're talking about all their specialist units (for Grineer, this is everyone outside of Lancers and Butchers) carrying some form of 'messing with your business'.
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9 hours ago, FoxFX said:
I never heard of the Index being anything like the "Competitive PVE Mode" I have presented from any of the Devstream/Prime Time notes I reviewed. Well, at any rate, the Index/Rathuum seems like a viable and optional content the way it is now.
I hadn't heard of it either. Any chance that anyone in the know could point out which one? I haven't been through all of them, and I'm still trying to work my way through it. As to the second bit, I'd... Generally agree. I'm still not entirely sure why that's not treated as a viable way to earn Conclave standing, honestly? It feels like a practice bot-match, if you ask me. Or maybe that's why it doesn't gain any standing.
Honestly, I could almost see a sort of strange PvP mode out of Rathuum, at the very least. Sort of a "whoever kills more of these super-hard grineer units wins" kind of deal. Not sure about the Index, although I have to say, as someone who's played a lot of Index boy am I ever glad there's another credit farm now.
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On 2019-10-19 at 3:19 AM, Miyabi-sama said:
I honestly want to critique this idea but I'm too lazy to type wall of text just to be "boo"ed and insulted in the end.
So i just say no. How about just play Destiny huh?
I wouldn't actually boo you, and I'm interested. "boo"ing people is largely unhelpful, unless they're just being an outright ass. If you have something meaningful you wanted to add, I'd love to hear it.
The just play Destiny comment is, though, largely unhelpful. It's a sort of approach I've encountered a lot so far in my time on the forums and it's very frustrating. The reason why is that it's entirely moving the whole point of the discussion away from the current topic. It is, in effect, saying "give up, this is not worth time or thought, cease your current activities and go do something else". I'm not sure if people in general or you in particular mean in that way, and I doubt most actually do. It's just very unhelpful. Playing Destiny - whatever merits it has - isn't exactly the point of that aspect of the conversation. I'm sure I'll try out Destiny at some point. I may even like it and take to it and may even, eventually, stop playing Warframe. But saying, to paraphrase your last two sentences, "no, why don't you just go do this?" is at best off-topic and unhelpful and, at worst, outright hostile and antagonistic. Again, I suspect you don't mean it in this vein, but hopefully in reading this, you'll both understand why I somewhat disparage the tail end of your post while at the same time encouraging you to actually post any genuine criticism you might have. One thing I think that's too often forgotten is criticism of an idea is not just a viable form of contribution (again, being hostile is not an inherent or important part of criticism, that's said just in case some two-bit jerk is reading and goes 'ahha, see! My being an ass? actually helpful!') but a vital one.
It was once said "That which does not add, subtracts" by someone once held up as one of the greatest thinkers man has every produced. Flawed or unwieldy parts of ideas should be detected, pointed out, and discussions should be had on how to excise and improve them. If you honestly want to critique it and mean it, I promise that - from me if noone else - you'll have someone willing to discuss and take apart whatever aspects of the idea you can point out as being flawed or unwieldy and talk about the whys and what approaches might be able to be engaged to remedy them. Will you have to actually take a risk and extend that level of trust? Yes, absolutely. But that's the only way that we, as people, can come together and hold any kind of conversation. I put out the trust that you genuinely mean what you said in your opening statement, and that all these words will not simply not fall on deaf ears, but will even be noticed and replied to by yourself at all. I hope you're willing to do the same. If not, I will understand, but I'd hope you'd choose to.
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1 hour ago, Zebiko said:
Harder isn't always more fun. For instance, some riven challenges are a pain to do and potentially impossible for certain players. (I don't care about people replying if all of them were easy for you, good for you for missing the point, go play dark souls)
I actually entirely agree with this, although I dunno that that tone is particularly helpful. But yeah, it's part of why I don't really bother going for hours and hours.
1 hour ago, Zebiko said:To me, I like the Dynasty Warriors type of game play that warframe brings, minus the interesting boss fight encounters. Hopefully kuva lich will help that out.
I'm into this. I have the same hope for the Kuva Liches/Nemesis systems myself, among others.
The thing is, from your post, it sounds like you're trying to avoid any increase in difficulty. It's a very "mine or thine", "if it's not black it MUST be white" sort of thing, and I dunno that that's helpful. I do think - and I do think it's very, very important - to not force increased challenge on people who want it. Let DE create the base game they mean to. But that doesn't mean challenge can't exist. I feel like your fear is that power-granting things will be locked behind extended challenges, (please tell me if I'm reading too much into what you say, I could be misinterpreting). If that's the case, then I am on 'your side' as it were, in that. I don't think that things should be hidden behind advanced difficulty if that's not what DE wants. But I don't think that means difficult challenge can't exist. I mean, most games have difficulty slides/settings for a reason.
I do think your point is worth saying here, although I don't think taking an oppositional approach is helpful to the discussion. There's no real reason both can't happily exist.
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1 hour ago, FrostDragoon said:
However, the rewards probably shouldn't change as the mission scales
If I accidentally implied this, I really didn't mean to! I meant that you'd pick from the options at the start of the mission, and that was your thing. Basically, exactly the way you thought it should be. XD
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10 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said:
Being able to set difficulties would be great. Preserve the existing star chart as "minimum" difficulty for those nodes so as not to throw the rewards out of whack, but allow you to set their starting level 10 - 200 levels higher if you want. Would also appreciate being able to add Nightmare/Sortie modifiers to it while we're at it. All the weird nerfs over the years toward "experience caves" kind of went out the window with the introduction of ESO, so letting players "exp cave" anywhere they want would go a long way toward seeing more of the map actually get played and be less boring for us as well.
...I hadn't even thought of that. If they did this, I'd probably spend SO much time in Earth Excavation.
...You know what'd be sort of awesome? If they basically had different 'difficulty' and 'reward' settings.
These numbers are pulled completely from the usual place, so please, don't take them as any sort of actual thing, but, what if the enemy level could determine not like... resources and things, but like... The mission rewards? The following is purely example based on a Starchart, please don't take it as some well-thought out proposal, just a proof-of-concept thing:
Say we had the following options:
- Level 1-10 Enemies
- Level 11-20 Enemies
- Level 21-30 Enemies
- Level 31-40 Enemies
Now image that you had a 'loot slider' that could unlock as you moved down the difficulty settings, meaning at any point you could select the unlocked option or any lower option. Again, this wouldn't effect drops or anything, just like the 'reward every five minutes' for survival. The rotation rewards, that's it. Something like this:
- Level 1-10 Enemies (Lith-Centric Rewards + Occasional Meso)
- Level 11-20 Enemies (Meso-Centric Rewards + Occasional Neo)
- Level 21-30 Enemies (Neo-Centric Rewards + Occasional Axi)
- Level 31-40 Enemies (Split Neo + Axi Rewards (Ala Xini))
And boom. Suddenly, you can have people playing through different tilesets, no longer seeing like the same 2-3 tilesets, and able to get the rewards that they're after.
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That price is well not worth it for Nova Prime. I have her, I love her, she's wonderful, but no.
There's no telling what [DE] is doing with unvaultings right now, we'll just have to wait and see.
Regarding the improvements:
The shields aren't that big of an issue, but the ~40 energy can make a difference if you use Primed Flow. If you don't, though, then no worries.
As far as using and leveling up a frame... I guess the question is: are you okay doing it all over again when you get the primed version? That's a personal question. To quote Rhetalius 'the only thing it takes is time'. You can make/get the blueprints for a forma a day, and you can buy a reactor from the Nightwave store if you absolutely don't want to spend any platinum. If you perfect the normal version, are you game to then perfect the prime one? I did this with my Nyx. I wasn't sure when her prime would come out again, so I set about making my regular Nyx as awesome as she could be. Then, when her unvaulting was announced a few months later, I eventually managed to grind out her prime version and have since put hours and hours and hours into her.
Hopefully this helps you gain some kind of clarity: it's mostly a matter of perspective and what you are and aren't up for.
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On 2019-10-14 at 12:48 AM, MakubexKido said:
i remember the original wolf of saturn six, the untapped and its undegraded form, which used to fck people in the ass if they went on a mission unprepared
now imagine the grineer introduced a new assault unit composed of 4 or 5 heavy unity, one for every tenno, as threatening as the first wolf
you runnin on a capture mission, and while on your way to extraction these guys will shows up like satellite drop infantry in plains of eidolon or will just appear out of nowhere in a ship tileset, and they will give the tenno the good ol "oh lawd help us" faceSo, I have two reactions to this:
- Please no. I cannot say no hard enough. And,
- I think I get where you're coming from.
To clarify: I don't think I'm a particularly amazing player. I can just about do 60-90 minute missions, the odd solo arbitration for a half hour or something, etc. I don't think I'm amazing. play mostly to have fun.
While I can appreciate the desire for something that challenges you (I've felt that call, it's why I'm here) The Wolf... Was not fun. I remember going into a levelling run on Hydron where all of us were leveling stuff. I was chatting with my dearheart at the time, and they ended up almost crapping their pants with laughter as four MR 20+ people ended up running around as star children slowly plinking away at this behemoth. When they put on Yackity-Sacks (I might be mispelling that), I almost lost it, too. The shared pain was a bit of a bonding experience, but he spawned in at wave 2 and we left at wave 5. About 40 minutes after we started.
But the thing is... The thing is... That concern? That worry about the Wolf having showed up to kick our asses? About wanting that loot and not being sure we could get it? That was excellent. The fight may have been awful (and the Wolf was basically a "Please have an anti-wolf tool in your party at all times" statement, holy crap did I play a lot of Valkyr with some Radiation Talons this spring) but the feeling of it, unless it eventually ground me down and basically just made me hang my head because 'oh boy, here comes another choice: spend 30 minutes fighting this thiccest of thiccbois or just abandon it and come back', was excellent. And I think trying to capture that sense of 'oh crap, here comes trouble' is probably important. I just am not sure that the Wolf was a good model for this.
I'm actually kinda hoping the Nemesis system ends up supplying this some, although I don't know if that'll be true or not until it happens. I feel like that system holds a lot of potential to address at least some of my specific concerns as a player. I'm not waiting with baited breath, but I am reservedly hopeful. At the moment, I'm not entirely sure what a good sort of... Assassin/"here comes trouble" system would like look, I haven't put a lot of thought into the question. But, I think I would definately have to encourage it away from 'bullet sponge'/'DPS race' stuff, as someone who doesn't really enjoy playing most of the tank/DPS frames. But, again, I'm one of those people that likes running frames like Nyx, or Limbo. Tricksy, kinda off-the wall frames.
Regarding Fortuna: I never actually knew they nerfed the Fortuna enemies. I did notice that they felt weaker when I finally went back to Orb Valis, but my builds were also MUCH better at that point, so I chalked it up to that. Let me be clear: I hated the Venus enemies when they launched, but they felt... Sort of appropriate? For the Corpus, I mean. Increasingly, I feel like one of the issues may be that having only one solution (use gun on man) is making designing interesting enemies a bit problematic when we can zip around at hyper speeds and our guns are sort of tactical nukes. I feel like the answer may, in fact, lie in enemies being able to negate us, but I feel like - so far - all the negations are problematic in their own ways. Either they are visually difficult to understand, or else they are absolute fail states (on/off). Hrm. I'll have to have a think about that, but that's my initial reaction to all of this.
Regarding a difficulty slider, should someone from [DE] read this: that really wouldn't go amiss. I love certain tilesets, but like... Unless I'm running fissures or farming plants, there's not a lot of reason or challenge or fun to be had on Earth unless I'm in the Plains or leveling up a newly-forma'd build.
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On 2019-10-15 at 5:21 AM, Vethalon said:
Nyx could have a mind control effect, kinda like in the Mutalist Alad V fight.
The fact that you reference my favourite frame was part of what got me to post, but only part. XD
I think it's not a bad idea, honestly. Trying to sort it out and develop it might be a bit of a gaggle, but I would generally agree that something like this is probably needed.
Warframe does competative... Oddly.
I have actually attempted to play the Conclave (I want the Cosmetics. A lot). But.... Well, there's a LOT of problems with that. The single biggest one, that I think this attempts to address, is that actually finding a match on the Conclave is like trying to find a working DC-10 in a scrapyard. Yes, it's theoretically possible (and doubtless the times you try will have a big impact) but for me? I've had two, I think. Maybe one. It wasn't a particularly fun experience, on top of that. It felt like the worst bits of Quake 3. But I can dig into my quibbles with the Conclave later. I'd be prepared to put up with it, to get the cosmetics from it, if I could get any matches.
But this notion effective would give a competitive aspect in some fashion that meant a... A more gentle welcome coming from the mechanics of the rest of the game. Which would be ideal. If anything, I'd argue this might slowly increase interest in other aspects of PvP, as sort of like a gateway game mode. Would many people not go past it? Probably, but some would. I think that's what I like most about this: that it promotes the idea of player versus player in a manner that doesn't radically deviate from the day-to-day of playing Warframe. Archwing sort of has this same kind of problem that I'm hoping Railjack will help with (as I love Archwing) but that's an entirely other thing as well.
Anyway, just my two bits. Hope it inspires you to continue the effort. 🙂
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Thank you everyone who's taken the time to reply. I've not been feeling very well of late, so the usual responses and second round of questions are a little bit delayed by that.
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19 minutes ago, XaoGarrent said:
Nyx's mind control and ESPECIALLY Wukong's clone both scale off your weapon in some manner. Atlas has no way to scale the damage of his Rumblers. He doesn't really need it, though, he's a good frame, he's just not *really* a summon frame. He's a "I'mma punch yo S#&$" frame. But if decking thots on the schnoz isn't your thing, you're probably not going to enjoy Atlas.
I understood like... Maybe HALF of that backend. XD But I follow your meaning. XD
Um. I don't mind? His Number 1's okay, but it...
When I was levelling up Atlas (the regular one) I basically just slid everywhere with his number one giggling to start with. But by the end of it I was going, 'There has to be something else here'. Now that I'm sort of revisiting him in his Prime form, I'm just toying around with what the frame can do.
And yeah, the Wuclone is bananas when it comes to weapon scaling. Nyx's Mind Control scales... Okay. They need to give that power a serious look-in, in my view, but that's an entirely different thought. So, nice to know that the Rumblers aren't there for damage. If... They're not there for damage, then... Are they crowd control? Maybe tankage?
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So, I once again have some questions about a warframe or a weapon that is not considered sort of standard.
Because of some responses I've gotten in the past, allow me to say the following:
- I am not looking for suggestions for other things to play. That is not what I am asking.
- I do not want to know that X is a better version of what I am asking about. That is not what I am asking.
- I'm not interested in whether or not something is good or not. That is not what I am asking.
- I do not want an exact way to build the frame. I like figuring out builds, and I am asking for advice, not a how-to.
- I do not generally ask bullet-point questions. There is no summary, there is no shortcut to what I'm looking for, you will actually have to read my post.
So, with that out of the way, let's talk Atlas.
Let me be straight up: as someone who's go-to frame is Nyx, I don't... Exactly 'get' Atlas. It may be that I don't exactly get tanks. I'm no big fan of Rhino. Inaros seems fine? (I love him aesthetically,) but I haven't put in the time. Wukong I've had some dumb fun with, but I love anything that lets me summon anything. (I played him pre-rework, I thought he was fine, but uninteresting). In fact, this love of summoning may be part of the troubles I'm having with him, as I currently sort of have this odd mis-mash of a build I've been levelling built around trying to make super strong... ...Rumblers. They're called Rumblers.
Yes, I have been trying to make a build entirely focused around using his number four. No, this is probably not a good idea. XD I haven't had a huge deal of success with it yet myself. So, yes, general Atlas advice is something I'd appreciate, but it's not what drove me here. What drove me here is Rubble.
Like... I have no idea what to even think about Rubble.
It's not his passive. That's being knockdown immune while on the ground (I mean, that sort of makes sense. If you asked me what passive I'd make for a Warframe named Atlas, I'd probably argue he either needed to ragdoll enemies upwards every time he punched them or have the power to instantly destroy Corpus Crewmen by doing the shrug emote).
It's not... Exactly attached to any of his powers (although it's most closely tied with Petrify).
It's just kinda this... Thing. That can heal him and give him armour. In a package that I have, so far, found massively inconvenient to use.
Moreover I don't get... Why he needs more armour. My Atlas doesn't even have full forma in, and he's got 1,140 Armour. I'm not... Great with Armour, or the eldritch calculations therein, but as far as I could determine that's about an 80% damage reduction for things that aren't super effective. And I've got over 1.7K Health. Do I... need more armour? Is it worth collecting or anything, given that it feels like it drains away faster than a gallon of water through a strainer? Just... Yeah. Rubble. What is this, why is it, and what am I even supposed to do with it, aside from track dirt into my orbiter?
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9 hours ago, Prowombat said:
I am a new player (only been playing for like a week) and have a few questions.
1. I am about to finish the war within (likely tomorrow) and am wondering what I should focus on next.
2. I know I need to farm up my mods as they are not great so where is the best place to farm endo?
3. Is the ignis/ignis wraith viable for endgame content? (if not what guns should I try to get)
4. How hard are sorties im only mr5 with some mediocre mods and mesa prime as the main frame I play as will I stand a chance in sorties?
5. I only have two frames (volt my starter frame and mesa prime) I really enjoy mesa and destroy everything with her 4 but I am wondering will I need other frames for different types of missions and what other frames should I focus on getting?
6. Is there any benefit or requirement for clearing every single node on the star chart?
Thanks for all the help!
Some of this has certainly been said before, but let me add my voice to the pile:
First off: Welcome to Warframe! It's a strange and curious ride. :)
Now, to try and address your questions:
1: Honestly, that's kind of a hard one for me to answer. Warframe is sort of less a 'game to beat' than a 'sandbox to mess around with'. Try to think of it more like Skyrim or one of the Fallout games (No, not THAT Fallout game, the previous ones). There's no reason to plow through/focus on 'trying to beat it'. I mean, you CAN burst through all the story and quest content as fast as you like, without really getting too deep into anything or just copying meta builds, but you'll lose out on a lot of the experience. If anything, I'd recommend that now would be an excellent time to really sit down and start working on some of your frames/weapons, trying to figure out what you really enjoy using, etc. Try to figure out what sort of things you're really into at the moment: is it open world exploration? Arbitrations? Long Relic opens? What?
2: Best places to farm Endo are probably (in no real order, I'm not some expert farmer) Voyanoi, Sedna; Hieracon, Pluto; and whatever Arbitration is running at the moment. I honestly have been getting more and more of my Endo via Arbitrations lately, it's easy to convert all the Ayatan to Endo and sometimes it slams you with 800-2K Endo as a reward.
3: Okay, I feel like... You may have the wrong approach here. While it's not going to be a fun answer, almost ANYTHING is viable for 'end game' content. It's mostly a question of how easy it is to make it viable. The Ignis Family works fine, sure. It's usually a lot more about learning how to mod a weapon than it is about 'what the weapon is' in the first place. Again, there's definitely a 'this is the meta for getting the biggest numbers', but I really discourage you from pursuing that. It's... Fine? But you'll completely lop off any ability to explore and really tinker with the game's mechanics or a lot of the experiences it can offer.
4: Sorties aren't that hard. I think the biggest issue you'll run into is that sorties are very much a 'do you have the tools to deal with this scenario'? kind of activity, and Mesa is not always the answer to that question. I'd seriously advice getting a bit of a wider selection of frames to work with. That said, even with common mods (not all of which are mediocre) I've gotten through a sortie before. If you're unsure about your DPS, then the best way to contribute is by playing a support with abilities that are useful and bringing that to the table.
5: Ideally, yes; you'll want other frames. Sticking with only one frame is a good way not just to burn out on the game, but would be like (going back to an earlier analogy) playing Skyrim with nothing but one sword equipped throughout the entire game. Explore, experiment. Different frames area absolutely good for different kinds of content. Some of the 'meta' staples are Saryn, Nova, Frost, Wukong, Chroma, Trinity, Obereon, Harrow, and Inaros, last I heard. I honestly don't pay overmuch attention to the meta. My favourite frames, and some of the ones I have the most fun on are Nyx (my all time favourite control in the game, and just overall favourite frame), Limbo (be careful, he takes a LOT of practice to understand and get good with,) Ember (an odd choice, but she's viable, if in some completely non-obvious ways,) Ivara (Sneaky, tricksy fun,) Equinox (I can't even begin to start explaining the craziness that is Equinox in this space. She's a support/DPS/control/Psuedo-stealth/Semi-tank/Debuffer/Nuker,) and Mag (Startlingly powerful caster who works nothing like what I thought she would at first). I've also really been getting into Nekros lately. A new frame with a new weapon can open up whole new playstyles and ways of approaching the game.
6: Yes, yes there is. Completing every single node on the Starchart unlocks Arbitrations, which are sort of high-end versions of normal Endless missions with special rewards tables that include exclusive mods, cosmetics, huge Endo piles, Ayatan Treasures, and, now, exclusive Arcanes. Your tollerance for them may vary, but I've found some enjoyment in them since the last few reworks. They definitely have their own gimmicks, though. Mesa's probably fine for them, although I've never seen a Mesa in one.
As some final thoughts, I would heavily encourage you to explore. Don't try to 'beat' the game. It's not really a game meant for beating, in my experience. It's meant for exploring, testing, and generally experimenting with things. Sticking with 'that one thing you know' is probably a good way to stop playing the game before too much longer. (it's what happened to a number of friends I got into the game). Whether you follow that is up to you, and whatever you do try and enjoy it. :)
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So, me and a friend were running around, and have been trying to figure out how, exactly, Charm and Smeeta Kavats work. What ended up prompting this is that going into a Kuva Survival were - as far as I know - we both had the same boosters and he had a Smeeta and I didn't (I had a Prisma Shade) - I came out with 4.8K Kuva to their 4.4K Kuva.
The wiki says that the Smeeta buffs only work on the owner of the pet, or at least seems to imply it.
Does anyone know what the crud is happening here? Like, both of us are slightly baffled, and neither one of is feels super concrete on exactly how Smeeta (and their Charms) are supposed to function. Like, if we both have them, do they give the same buffs at once? Do they stack? Is it all random? Are we affected by each other's Charm? If so, what's the range on it? Is there any sort of functionality that we should really be aware of that isn't innately intuitive or readily obvious? If someone could provide some sort of elucidation on this, I'd appreciate it.
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7 minutes ago, taiiat said:
often when you're trying to turn a Bow into Torid, coincidentally, haha.
applying strong Gas (or Slash, which Torid can do thesedays with Hunter Munitions) DoT's. as DoT's generally perform better when each Tick is stronger than when you apply 10x as many DoT's....Does each tick have a chance to crit? If so, I might have to try a Hunter MoMo build with this. That sounds like it could be dumb fun. XD
Atlas' Gimmick, Stoneboy in General (Here we go again)
in Players helping Players
Posted
So, not a lot of direct responses, but more sort of an update to how things have been going.
I think I kinda hate Atlas' gimmick. Lemme explain.
I love the notion of it. I love the idea of it. I even love the graphics of it. But whoo BOY do I find it so, so unwieldy to use. Maybe it's just practice, but even using Path of Statues (which helps) the fact that the cone is apparently locked to 60 degrees makes it... Awkward. @(PS4)AbBaNdOn_IGN had the issue with trying to petrify with Rumblers right on the money, although I haven't exactly found them weak, at least not within Startchart levels. I'm still trying to sort out how to play Atlas well, so I haven't really taken him above that, though.
Using him as a "Punch Mage" has been an improvement. So I don't think it's like... A hopeless thing, or even necessarily a bad thing. Currently I'm just struggling with actually producing rubble in any significant amounts, even in solo. The fact that it seems like it constantly drains also doesn't really help me keep it up.
If anyone has any advice for actually building, filling, and maintaining that guage I'd love to hear it.
Still working on figuring out to how mod a melee weapon for Atlas's punch-magic. Considering using the Tekko Prime for it, but I'm not especially good with sparring weapons, and I'm still not sure if the different weapon types make a difference as to how it peforms as a base.
...Also, also: if anyone out there is familiar with Path of Status, does it seriously not leave any actual trail that you can see, or are my graphics settings too low? As I've never been able to actually spot any sort of indication of 'area covered by the path' or anything.
Again, thank you, everyone, for helping me get to this point with stoneboy and his gimmick. I feel like I'm making some progress out of the mire of misunderstanding towards being able to use him. Tanks are really not my forte, but from all the ones I've tried so far, Atlas has kinda captured the feel of what I like about them best to me. Slow, potent, and kinda unstoppable if not exceptionally devastating. But easily able to wade into a group of people and slowly lay them out one by one.