UnderRevision
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Posts posted by UnderRevision
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I was just about to make a post about this myself. I'm glad I'm not just missing something obvious, or at least am not the only one missing something obvious. I'm not really sure how to work it into the controls, if I'm being honest. Buttons are at something of a premium. Perhaps it could use the Transference keybinding since that can't be used while in archwing anyway.
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Let me preface this by saying that I play with a controller, specifically an X-Box style one, so all my thoughts on controls should be taken in that context.
Overall, I like the new controls for combos. I always found the combos that required pausing to be rather finicky to pull off. Already knowing how to do every combo on every stance has really encouraged me to take a look at the stances I never really used before, and to actually use more combos in general. That said, the fact that a lot of stances appear to be short on combos is a real problem. Having a few weapons or stances that deviate from the rules is fine and a great way to make unique weapons feel that little more unique, but there are so many exceptions right now that it doesn't quite feel like there's a rule. At the very least, sharing attacks between a few stances within a weapon category to fill them all out would bring the expected behavior of having each of the four combos do something different.
Speaking of which, the in-game combo screen seems to think that blocking is assigned to left stick instead of left trigger. I'm not sure if that's a bug or an oversight of some kind. It also suggests that there is only one attack in the heavy attack combo when it is actually possible to chain into a second, different heavy attack on at least some stances.
I don't feel particularly qualified to weigh in on the nuances of a lot of specific weapon types that took significant changes (like gunblades), but I will echo some of what I've seen about the glaive throw. The glaive category is one of those times when making an exception to the rules reinforces the uniqueness of the weapon. This is especially true since it can be thrown with holding the attack button when dual-wielded. If something is going to be an exception, then it really should commit to being an exception in a consistent and predictable manner. As it is, it feels like melee-only glaive is a downgrade when, if anything, it should be where a weapon is used to its fullest potential. Not that I want the throw to be locked behind melee-only mode. That wouldn't really address the fundamental problem of inconsistency, after all.
Heavy attacks in general are something of an issue. The controller binding has heavy attacks replacing channeling on the right stick click. This is a rather awkward binding, to say the least, but it's difficult to remap with how controller bindings are handled. I'm not sure how to solve this issue, if I'm honest. Returning the binding to holding down the attack button would make my earlier comments about the glaive problematic as it would require burning your combo meter for every throw, which is not desirable from the player perspective. My next instinct would be to co-opt the reload button (X on an X-Box controller) while using melee. Unfortunately, this again runs afoul of the glaives when it comes to dual wielding as the reload button is still very much needed to reload. It also impacts quick-melee since the player may want to fire until their gun is empty, take a few swings, reload, then open fire again. It could be done if heavy attacks were restricted to melee-only mode, but that really runs counter to the goal of fluidity. Or perhaps it could be set to right stick for quick-melee and have an option to bind to reload in melee only? Perhaps if there was an entirely separate control mapping available for melee-only, since it is a deliberate and distinct mode switch now, it would allow players to have the best of both worlds? Particularly since the right trigger doesn't do anything when in melee only mode unless that option is set in the menu. Melee-only is arguably its own full control set already, so exposing that and letting it be customized just like archwing or lunaro bindings couldn't hurt, right? Well, aside from the development costs. I'm sure that's a lot more complicated to implement than it looks from the outside.
The other thing I want to mention at this early stage is Valkyr's Hysteria. I play Valkyr a lot and use her Hysteria pretty heavily and I have to say that I'm not a fan of how she was handled. It still feels very much like spin-to-win is the better strategy. Her standard combos are stiff and sluggish, and her forward + block combo has no utility as a gap closer. Hysterical Assault is a poor substitute in that regard as it requires targeting an enemy to use and is, again, very stiff compared to something like the gap-closer on the Final Harbinger stance for sword and shield weapons. That combo, compared to Valkyr's, feels infinitely faster, stronger, and just plain cooler. It turns your warframe into a whirling storm of death to land right amidst the enemies where you can tear them to shreds. Meanwhile, Valkyr slowly lurches forward a step at a time, stiffly swatting at the air right in front of her. The end result of this is that spin-to-win still feels like the best way to play her, especially since the slide helps close the gap far more easily and fluidly than Hysterical Assault without costing mod capacity. To be honest, she doesn't feel at all in sync with the rest of the melee rework. She's not awful, but she certainly doesn't feel like an unrelenting force of feral rage.
I think that's all I should say for now. Anything else should really come after I've spent more time with the new system and really dug into it on a wider selection of weapons and stances.
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16 hours ago, Azrael said:
Actually, later on I tried that and it kinda worked, in the sense that I went operator and used the floor laser to force him to drop my frame. 😄
But I've also been dropped without dying, I guess just after a set time?
After further testing, I've learned a few things. It does indeed drop you after a fixed time but unless you're a very tanky frame/invincible due to an ability (Hysteria, for example), you will most likely not last that long. I've also tested using transference to escape with mixed results. When using a controller, transference is disabled entirely while held for reasons unknown. I suspect that since abilities are disabled while grabbed, it's disabling the right bumper entirely (which is a prerequisite for activating transference and warframe abilities), but that's just a guess. When using mouse/keyboard, it seems to work intermittently; sometimes it will work, other times I'm stuck in the frame. I cannot be sure if that inconsistent behavior with the keyboard is something inherent to being grabbed or if it's the same random power disabling that happens in the entire fight. And, as mentioned in another post, the Ropalolyst keeps holding your warframe in the meantime anyway. Honestly, I wouldn't even mind being grabbed if something interesting happened but you just get held until you die or the game decides you're allowed to play again. Or decides that transference will work for a few seconds.
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1 hour ago, Azrael said:
Last time I was grabbed I pressed 5 and got out of it. It's not a guaranteed death.
Really? How odd. I tried doing the controller equivalent several times and it didn't work. I'll check again next time I fight it.
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I'll echo what others are saying about one hit kills being rather cheap. Especially combined with the constant threat of falling, being unable to move for a second while resetting, and getting vaporized. This isn't helped by the fact that Transference doesn't work reliably and I can't tell what is making the difference between being able to use it and not being able. I'm abruptly, and without warning, unable to void dash in one of the few situations in the game where it would really be useful to void dash.
Also, the being grabbed thing? Not a fan. I generally dislike mechanics where the game decides "okay, you lose now" and, unless I'm using an ability that makes me invulnerable, that's what being grabbed is at the moment: an automatic loss of a life. In a boss where every other hit is already instantly lethal, having a slow-but-one-hundred-percent-certainly-lethal attack just comes across as spiteful. What's the point? Just shoot me instead, it's faster and the end result of "I lose a life now" is exactly the same. Either that, or let me actually have the ability to fight back while grabbed.
Also, the lore is nice, but no lore is still going to be interesting once I've run this mission twenty times trying to get the last Wisp part to drop. I'm kinda surprised to see that design choice still being made. It's definitely a "familiarity breeds contempt" sort of situation. Especially since the ones talking aren't even directly involved in the fight. Perhaps consider merging it into hint transmissions? Something like toggling hint transmissions off muting all the rambling dialogue after the first time you successfully complete an assassination mission. You can still get that first time impact and if someone wants to play through again to get the same experience they have the option, or they can just have an irritant-free run for another drop without the lore losing its magic.
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It also seems to use the ability energy color instead of the emissives energy color, which really kind of defeats the purpose of having an emissives option. The default green of her energy looks a lot less appealing on her helmet than it does on her abilities. Hideously so.
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2 hours ago, ADirtyMonk said:
Regarding frequency of firebomb spam. I think it is ok for hard hitting attacks to be very frequent if players were given ample warning. No stamina bar means a ton of leeway to keep players moving and dodging big hits which is something DE really fails to take advantage of for boss fights.
Were the boss fight in a big open room (like the aforementioned hangar) I'd be onboard with that. It's more the spam of fire in the tight corridors leading up to the boss that's irritating. There's often not a lot of room to work with to avoid incoming fire. It's not insurmountable by any means but it would have been nice if, for example, the enemies leading up to the boss were a variant with less spam while the ones in the boss arena were free to go nuts with them. But, like you said, with all the new enemies in the Jovian Concord, their enemy design/development team was probably quite busy. Looking forward to seeing the fruits of their labor firsthand.
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I agree overall with a lot of this (though I found the firebombs to be a bit more hazardous than the OP seemed to). I would like to add that I wish there was more variety with the fugitives. The firebombs would be more tolerable if they didn't ALL spam them all the time. There was a missed opportunity to give them a mix of looted Grineer and Corpus weapons to make them a more interesting mixed-bag of a faction and less a never ending rain of surprisingly potent Molotov cocktails. Seriously, when do we get those as throwing weapons? There's a throwing knife weapon concept in there that I wouldn't mind using.
For the fight itself, maybe it would have been better to use that giant hangar that I only ever see in the "destroy the mining equipment" sabotage missions in the Grineer Asteroid Base tileset. There'd be more room to move around and do his swirling lunges there. Heck, could have added a lore blurb about the reason we're going there is because he's steered the asteroid to smash into someplace. Would make it feel a little less contrived that we're suddenly able to pin down a location for the guy who has been going just about everywhere in the system so freely.
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Considering that I only saw the Wolf six, maybe seven times total before the Alerts went up, I whole-heartedly support DE's choice to let us farm him here at the end of his Nightwave. Now I actually have a chance to get his hammer, not because it'll give me mastery, but because it's a big throwable hammer and that just looks fun. The way he was spawning I never would have gotten all the parts. Heck, I still can't get the motor to drop and I've got enough of everything else to make two hammers so far. I could have spent the time and effort to work out the ideal setup to use for absolutely everything just in case he spawned but if he decided to never spawn, well, what was I going to do about it? What would anyone be able to do about it? What skill or strategy would let someone overcome the Wolf simply never showing up? At that point the only option is to buy the parts from others and I'd argue that's significantly less interesting than even a quick, repetitive assassination mission.
Still, having this precedent set means that I can enjoy the next event like this without having to worry so much about missing out because RNG decided not to give me a chance to fight the enemy. I can just have fun and mess around with weapons and frames that aren't the strongest things in my arsenal because it'll be reasonable to assume that failing one random encounter won't make or break my chances at the rewards. To me, that seems like a net positive.
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I encountered this while trying to solo hunt a Teralyst. In the middle of the fight, my Warframe (Inaros) decided to unequip my Lanka and switch to the Synthesis scanner. My Lanka was the only weapon I had equipped other than my archgun (Imperator Vandal). The weapon switch button had no effect. Selecting the scanner on the gear wheel would make my warframe draw the Lanka but the moment I attempted to fire, it immediately switched back to the scanner without firing a shot. I could summon my archgun and fire it but the moment I dismissed it the scanner took over again. Archwing had no effect either although I didn't think to use my K-Drive. I also tried switching to my tranq rifle but the moment I unequipped it the scanner came right on back. Transference didn't help, nor did jumping in water. Even death only let me get off a single shot before the scanner returned.
Needless to say, this made it impossible to kill the Eidolon (archgun might as well have been firing ping-pong balls) and I was forced to abandon the mission. I've noticed that ever since the melee update the scanner has been iffy when it comes to accepting that I no longer want to use it. I've have instances where I scan, then switch to a weapon, use melee, then attempt to fire only to discover my scanner has equipped itself. For now, I'm removing the scanner from my gear wheel entirely.
Unfortunately, I have no idea how to reproduce this bug. My only suggestion would be to attempt various permutations of switching between the scanner, weapons, and possibly other gear items to see if there are any odd interactions. I was spamming a lot of healing items because I am bad at the game and that's the only way I can survive a Teralyst, so maybe it was something to do with that.
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They need to decide which direction they want to take K-Drives because right now they're at war with themselves. If they're just meant to be good old fashioned fun then why do they take so long to level up? Why does it take so long to earn the Vent Kids standing for what is essentially a joke vanity item? Why do they have mastery associated with them if they're not meant to be a serious part of the game? Right now it's the utility of a joke item with the grind of a useful tool which doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. I actually like the idea of K-Drives but right now they're in an awkward place where I feel like I should use them for mastery but they're just so impractical. They feel like an obligation instead of a fun way to mess around. Until these sorts of questions are answered I'm not sure K-Drives should really be referenced in the context of Archwing balance.
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Conceptually she seems to be pulled in two conflicting directions.
Her passive encourages mobility since the only way to get airborne is to be jumping around aimgliding, and whatnot. Her decoy also somewhat enforces mobility by way of teleporting and redirecting the enemy's attention and providing a stun when teleporting. Her fourth ability also allows movement and has a focused field of fire compared to something like Revenant's or Ember's. I'd expect these three abilities to be on a Warframe that's something of a glass cannon. She has a powerful attack but she needs to keep moving and distract the enemy because if she gets pinned down then she's toast.
But then we have her other abilities. Her first ability spawns stationary objects that provide buffs. To get the maximum effect, multiple casts and collections are needed to stockpile the little wisps and distribute to the team (if present). Her third ability further leverages these spawned stationary buff platforms by setting off AOE attacks around them. I'd expect these two abilities to be on a Warframe that's intended to fill a defensive support role. She can provide valuable buffs and can provide point defense for a stationary target, but she needs time to set up and probably can't deliver a knockout punch on her own.
So, Wisp is a defensive support glass cannon with a significant stationary set-up time who benefits from being constantly on the move while defending a single area with remotely triggered stationary AOE and periodically blasting enemies into oblivion with point blank solar annihilation as a mobile death ray. It's a touch... confused as a theme. Looking at her, I don't know how I'm supposed to play her. Is she supposed to hold her ground or be constantly on the move? Is she support or damage? Is she built to take the punishment that comes with holding her ground?
Perhaps she's meant to be a jack of all trades, master of none. That could work if it was tied together by a more aesthetic or conceptual theme rather than a practical theme. The stated theme is portals and summoning, but she only has one ability that summons and one that opens a portal. Her passive and two other powers don't really relate to portals or summoning at all. Her second ability could if it had some portal-like visual effect to go with it but as it stands it's just a teleport. To be honest, she seems like two different frames got blended together.
Now this could all prove moot when I actually get my hands on her and take her for a spin myself. It might turn out to work really well as a jack of all trades. Based on my past experience with Titania, though, I fear that I'll just end up using her fourth ability and ignoring the deployable buffs because they just don't feel good to use. I expect I'd also use the decoy ability too for the blind and stun. Warframe as a game encourages movement so when half her kit says "move" the other half is probably going to lose out, at least for me. I look forward to trying her out, regardless. Visually speaking she's a beautiful piece of work and I'm sure her four will be just plain fun to use.
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I've found that Valkyr's talons color inconsistently with the secondary energy. When both energy colors are customized, the secondary color sets the color of the talons. When the primary energy is set to default, the talons ignore the custom secondary energy and turn orange. I'm not sure what the intended behavior is but this doesn't seem right.
Steps to reproduce in Simulacrum with a standard (non-prime) Valkyr:
1. Set both energy colors to default. Activate Hysteria and observe that the fundamental color of the talons is orange.
2. Set primary energy to a bright purple from the Easter pallet while leaving secondary energy as default. Activate Hysteria. The talons should take on the purple color.
3. Set the secondary energy color to a bright green from the St. Patrick's Day pallet without resetting the primary. Activate Hysteria. The talons should take on the green color. The primary color seems to mix into the particle effects/clouds/etc but the talons themselves turn green.
4. Reset the primary energy color ONLY to default while leaving the secondary color customized. Activate Hysteria. The talons should now have reverted to orange despite them having used the secondary color in step three.
5. Set the primary energy color to a bright, saturated orange from the Halloween pallet. Activate Hysteria. The talons should now go back to being green despite the fact that the default color is every bit as orange as the Halloween orange.
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I like a lot about the fight as a concept but I think it needs to work a bit on providing clear feedback to the player.
I've killed her successfully three times now and I still have no idea how the thermia canisters work in the second phase. Sometimes when I hit her with one her heat goes up, most of the time it doesn't. Sometimes heat goes up when I shoot them mid air, most of the time it doesn't. Eventually her heat just appears to start going up entirely on its own despite me not having thrown a canister in several minutes because she's decided not to open any fissures. The feedback this all gives me as a player is that to win I basically just need to waste enough time for the game to decide that she's going to overheat now and I'm allowed to make progress again. I honestly cannot tell if I even need to throw a single canister or if I could just go tuck my warframe out of the line of fire and wait for the meter to just start filling on its own.
She also has a habit of climbing the mountains and not moving properly anymore. It might be a good idea to leash her AI not to move onto the steep terrain because I don't think she knows how to handle it. Sometimes she gets stuck entirely, other times she gradually works her way further and further up the slope to where that little Corpus base with the auto turret is. That makes it very hard to see the coolant raknoids before they reach her since there are no clear lines of sight. She also likes to repeatedly dump all her heat into opening fissures three times in the space of a minute every so often. Or go five minutes straight just standing there not opening a single one. It honestly might work better to script it a bit more tightly. If the canisters worked predictably then the fissures and raknoid spawns could be made more sequential and regimented rather than random. Establish a clear pattern with clear rules.
EDIT: I forgot an important bit of feedback. I love the insane characterization of the Exploiter. She is absolutely nothing like that I expected her to be with that voice and personality. Please continue to pull these strange surprises and unexpected oddities. The weirdness is amazing.
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It's too early for me to have a solid opinion about most of the melee rework so far. At this early stage I will suggest making some kind of more obvious audio/visual feedback about your exalted weapon still being active when you swap out to a gun. I've burned through all my energy a couple of times by not realizing it was still going.
In terms of visual effects... was it really necessary to make radiation hot pink? I get that it's a common joke to put all your colors to variously garish shades of pink but it's pretty unpleasant to look at, at least in my opinion.
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Overall, I like the idea of Nightwave. Having a rotating crop of challenges that let me not bother for a day or two without missing my shot is a big upgrade to alerts in terms of convenience. However, I do have a few thoughts.
I'll echo a lot of what others have been saying about hour long missions being over the top and the friend requirements being irritating for dedicated solo players. I also agree with some of the sentiments about it being a little too aimed at more experienced players to the detriment of newer ones. For that last issue I suggest a redistribution of the standing between challenge tiers. Currently we have one daily at a time while the rest are "regular" or elite challenges. It might be better to get rid of some of the mid tier challenges and add an equivalent standing amount of daily challenges in their place. For example, one 3,000 reputation challenge becomes three 1,000 reputation challenges that are something that anyone at any experience level can sink their teeth into.
Oh, and a small quality of life change, maybe adjust Nora's voice lines to be a bit more appropriate to the scale of the task accomplished. Save the big dramatic ones for the elite challenges, that sort of thing. I like Nora but she doesn't have quite enough voice lines to stop from getting repetitive pretty quickly.
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Perhaps have the Moa flinch and turn its head as if it heard something, after which it turns and takes a half step to investigate. Before it quite touches the floor with its foot, it pauses, looks to see its master hasn't moved, and, a little reluctantly with another glance or two towards the "noise", settles back into place to wait.
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I have experienced this as well, though mine works more often than not. Thus far I've not been able to pin down exact steps to reproduce, but I do play primarily with a controller and only use the mouse/keyboard for certain menus. Seeing you mention controller makes me wonder if maybe it's a bug triggered by the game switching control methods back and forth.
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I'm not sure I'd go that far. It used to work great until around the Chimera update, at least it did for me. For a while after that I could resolve the issue by swapping controls around at the start of every session but then that stopped working. I've swapped controls, reset to defaults, moved to different menus before saving, found and deleted the local settings file, all to no avail.
Here's an extra wrinkle I just discovered. I originally downloaded Warframe directly from the site but a month or so ago I downloaded another version through steam so I could buy a Tennogen helmet. I basically never use the steam version but it's still there. I just checked and I have exactly the same bug on that installation as well. Two different installations of the game, same very specific bug. It makes me wonder if there's separate, server-side account settings that got corrupted somehow or something? I noticed that when I deleted my local settings file I still had my customized UI theme rather than some default one even when a bunch of other settings went back to factory default. Otherwise, unless someone figures out some new trick to try, I may just have to hope some future update randomly fixes it.
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I've had an issue with my left trigger (wired xbox 360) not functioning for any action while I have a melee weapon equipped for a while now. It works perfectly for primary and secondary weapons but, the moment I switch to my melee, it's like the game forgets the trigger exists until I go back to a gun. I wonder if we're experiencing different variations of some fundamental issue with how the game handles controller trigger inputs.
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I checked the bindings and melee channeling is definitely only mapped to the left trigger. When I swap block and channeling so that block is on left trigger and channeling is on the right, block stops working and channeling starts working again. I've tried putting other random controls to the left trigger as well and they just don't work. It seems less like it's about channeling and more like the game just forgets the left trigger exists when using melee.
I also just tried the "bind then switch to a different tab before saving" thing and the problem persists. I'm honestly at a loss with this.
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For a while now I've been unable to use the left trigger for channeling or blocking. I have swapped control binds around, reset to defaults, messed with the channel/block toggle settings, googled where the settings are saved locally and deleted them to start from scratch (and discovered that governed matchmaking preferences, had it start loading me into an ongoing game, and had a panic attack that ended with me forcibly shutting down my computer when the abort button didn't work. Thanks, crippling social anxiety!), none of which has made a difference. When I use a melee weapon the left trigger on my controller becomes completely inert. It works just fine for everything when I have a primary or secondary equipped. I saw a few older threads from around October for this but none of those solutions worked and I don't know the statute of limitations on necroposting.
I am specifically using an older wired xbox 360 controller that doesn't give me any other problems aside from this and, again, this only happens when I have my melee weapon equipped. Is anyone aware of any other potential fixes?
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I've run into an issue where I can't seem to use channeling with my controller. If I use the mouse button to channel it works but the controller trigger doesn't. I've confirmed the control is still mapped in the menu. To reproduce:
1. Use an Xbox controller (360 in my case)
2. Enter a mission, switch to melee and attempt to channel.
It appears that all of the other actions mapped to the left trigger still work. Aiming, bringing up chat in a social area, both of those still work. It's just melee channeling. It applies to warframes and archwings.
EDIT: Oh, and it happens if you have other weapons equipped or only a melee equipped. And so far has impacted every melee I've tried.
Controller Archwings
in General
Posted
Wait. There's a roll? Sweet Eris, there is a roll. I can set it off with mouse and keyboard, but using the equivalent controller inputs doesn't work. Probably because sprint requires pressing in the same stick that is used for movement.