TheVeiledScion
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Posts posted by TheVeiledScion
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53 minutes ago, maj.death said:
I can't help but feel you should stop laboring over endgame this and endgame that.
I only mentioned endgame once. If I understood Steve correctly, PoE is only part endgame (at night). The space is meant to be accessible to all players, especially during the daytime. All I was noting was that many players have a lot of reservations about PoE. I'm not one of those players, but I recognize that this is probably the biggest shift Warframe will ever experience. Therefore, I think they should utilize the landscape in a way that genuinely provides new content while also incorporating a lot of the old content in new ways.
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I don’t think I’ve ever been as excited for Warframe as I am now. I think the last time Warframe went through as big a change as this was when DE introduced Dark Sectors, PvP, and the first iteration of Solar Rails. Plains of Eidolon has the potential to radically expand Warframe, but only if DE takes full advantage of these new, open-world “landscapes.” I think the following three additions would ensure that Landscapes add to the Warframe experience:
I. Integration
I’ve already seen some worries that PoE will draw players away from existing tilesets, or otherwise not represent the endgame that many veteran players want. At the same time, new players understandably want some access as well. I believe that the way to do that is to incorporate existing gameplay into PoE.
1. Rather than just Ostrons, existing characters like Darvo and Maroo should also offer contracts/missions on the Plains of Eidolon. For example, Maroo should also send players to PoE to find Ayatans and possibly other items of interest. Darvo should send players to acquire items from Grineer areas in the landscape as well as on ships. Furthermore, alerts from Syndicates and the Lotus should also take place on the Plains. At the same time, DE should use the Plains as an opportunity to introduce new Grineer bosses. This will ensure that there is enough continuity with the rest of the starchart, while also allowing for genuinely new characters and interactions.
2. PoE should incorporate all existing mission types (including Archwing ones), while expanding and adapting them to the landscape context. Just to use one example, with an open-world setting, excavation can be far more expansive. Rather than defending small, deployable machines that excavate mods and parts, perhaps players must seize a large, stationary drill site from Grineer control, defend it while it excavates a sizeable Orokin artifact (say, a Liset part), and then must defend that artifact while they carry it to a safe extraction point (i.e., Hijack). Throw in an archwing component, and you have a dynamic mission that is far more engaging.
II. Combat Allies
While the Ostrons are great, they seem to be just a civilian faction confined mostly to the Cetus relay-space. And while the Eidolon is promising as an endgame unit, it only appears at night, leaving the Grineer (for now) the only real day time faction. In the open-world games I’ve played, having multiple factions was a key factor in making such games work, and this RPG feature would greatly complement PoE. Of course, Warframe already has such factions – the Syndicates. The Syndicates have been recently fleshed out in Warframe-specific quests, and have been a critical part of expanding the game’s lore around the Tenno and Warframes. However, I think they could play an even bigger role in filling out PoE. For example, New Loka operatives could join the Ostrons and lone Corpus buyers inside Cetus, since they are already on Earth and supposedly want to repopulate the planet. At the same time, Steel Meridian – as the game’s most developed Syndicate – could be out in the landscape fighting the Grineer, both adding to the immersion as well as functioning as an ally in the field. Adding such factions would allow for more narrative and gameplay options.
III. Sieges
Plains of Eidolon provides the perfect opportunity to create a new type of invasion-style Fomorian mission. Currently, the Fomorian missions involve using Archwings to destroy a Fomorian before it gets close enough to attack a relay, yet there is no sense of urgency or credible stakes because the relays are nowhere to be seen.
In my previous post, I tried to lay out one example of how a new type of invasion mission might be structured. Now that we have Plains of Eidolon, though, I think DE could combine elements of the Fomorian Archwing and Invasion missions to make such events more appealing and more exciting.
The first aspect would be the same Fomorian alert, but instead of a relay, the Fomorian is targeting Cetus. The same countdown would exist, but rather than destroying Cetus, perhaps failure means that players would need to liberate Cetus from Grineer control (Exterminate) and rescue the Ostrons from Grineer prison cells (Rescue/Mobile Defense). The second aspect would be defending Cetus from a ground Grineer siege. Essentially, this would be a hybrid of Defense, Mobile Defense, and Interception, where players must defend spots inside and outside the Cetus area from the Grineer. There could be more to it than that, of course.
These are just my own suggestions for PoE, which I hope will make it truly a worthwhile addition to the game. I'd love to hear your feedback.
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I disagree with the premise. I don't think PoE is designed to address problems with enemy challenge. That's not the primary purpose of the expansion. The primary purpose seems to be to expand the gameplay within a more lively, freer space. That is something that Warframe needs, as the content it has is only geared toward the same finite gameplay experience. Everything you want to see could still be done within the PoE environment.
42 minutes ago, Tyloo17 said:There is never a sense of challenge in Warframe in my opinion, because it always comes down to either: "How well can you kill the bad things?" or "How quickly and safely can you get to the objective?" There isn't a sense of actual challenge that makes me think about squad strategy or anything else other than can I survive long enough to kill something or hack into that console, at least not in my 800 hours of play.
As for the point above, the solution isn't just changing up stats, but also adding more gameplay options, which requires more tools at your disposal and more tools for enemies to use against you. Specific case in point, a while back people on here and DE outright rejected the idea of adding some sort of grenade to the game, despite the fact that the grineer and corpus use them. The reason was that it didn't "fit" Warframe. But grenades are perhaps the simplest tactical tool used by modern militaries. Without them, there's a lot less you can do to tackle a threat. I'm not saying grenades specifically should be added, but you'll never get true "squad strategy" unless you have more tactical options. Of course, you also need a greater variety of mission objectives that can accommodate those tools. PoE's freer environment allows all of this to happen.
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Any plans - at any point - to do a visual rework of the Derelict? It could benefit from a similar (if less intensive) "overgrown" look. At least more grass.
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Just now, Chewarette said:
Could be any of Neptune's satellites, most of them are already in-game (Laomedeia, Nereid, Sao, Meso, Triton...).
Will it be a new tileset, though? I hope so.
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Anyone notice the new tileset? Is that for Neptune? Looks like a blend of Jupiter gas city and Venus outpost designs, on a rocky snowy world, with Neptune in the background.
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I realize this might be some ways in the future, but would you consider adapting the "kingpin" system to Syndicates? Given their progression system and varied goals, such a system would really benefit them, especially Steel Meridian, Perrin Sequence and Red Veil.
It could also serve as an alternative for players who aren't a part of or have very small/inactive clans.
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22 hours ago, Robin-da-Reaper said:
From the occasional story-driven narrative DE is making, she is of quite considerable significance. Complete, unguided freedom won't give us the significance and purpose we might someday require, and she is needed for making of whole bunch of content available to the general player viable.
Honestly, I still don't fully get why people appear so opposed to her. A mother has flaws, sure, but most of the time she doesn't really force our ways. We can abstain from a bunch of things if we want to, but she guides those who're willing towards a beneficial path that may help ourselves and others. The Tenno characters make little mention of the rewards we get from our work, thus are primarily player-incentives.
Of course there's a bunch of stuff about the Lotus we can question, though I don't think she finds it offensive. The "recent" story-quests have given a clear view of an evolving relationship between Tenno and the Lotus/Space Mom. She probably welcomes the change, if at times reluctantly, but why've we got to blame her around every corner...
Probably because many players want to be 1) treated like adults not children (some of us are [much] older than 17), and 2) we like a variety of options, including who to take our "orders" from. Considering that most of the missions are pretty similar anyway, it wouldn't have to change much of anything. To be honest, I'd rather the Lotus take a sort of back seat to the Syndicates. While they are only side missions right now, they could be expanded to something more.
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I have a question about melee units like the Prosecutors. They are supposed to be challenging units to fight, but right now their only danger is that they are immune to certain elemental damage. Would you consider changing up how those types of enemies fight to make them more challenging melee units?
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Are there any tileset reworks or additions planned for this year, aside from Earth?
The Corpus ship in particular could use some of the updated designs on Eris and Europa.
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33 minutes ago, Smilomaniac said:
Focus will apparently be addressed soon, likely to be completely reworked and probably to do with moral choices/Helminth.
Warframe is more of a hobby project where they can fiddle with new graphical fidelity options and cash in on releasing new warframes and weapons. I do think they genuinly want to surprise us with things that they find exciting, but actual content you have to look for elsewhere. Which reminds me, I should reinstall Ark, seeing as they add fifty things a month...
Well it certainly seems like it's just a hobby project for DE at times. I do wish it were an actual game project, especially since a good number of us invested and continue to invest a lot of money with the expectation of a complete game.
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I don't think it would be so bad if DE actually developed genuinely new content. The problem comes when DE decides to develop parallel features that are only slight upgrades/modifications to existing features. For example: dojos, relays, landing craft. All perform similar and overlapping functions, but the former two suffer from a lack of attention. Or take a more recent example: Focus and Transference. Again, both are quite similar, and even use the same key. But rather than expanding the existing function to include the new feature, DE creates the new functionality while continuing to neglect the old functionality. What is worse, DE doesn't remove the abandoned feature, and the game size continues to grow all the while perpetually unused features continue to take up unnecessary hard drive space.
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The arms are too big, the chest doesn't come out as much as the concept, and the head/neck isn't as pyramid-shaped as the concept.
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Will the Corpus ship be getting a rework like the Grineer Galleon any time soon? It is possible that it can get un-Infested and undestroyed versions of the Eris and Europa tiles?
Those tiles variously have a bridge, a weapons bay, a 10-level prison ward, a transport bay... all really cool things a ship should have. It would be really awesome to see those tiles on the regular Corpus ships.
Playing on the Mycona map during Glast Gambit demonstrated just how much better the Corpus ships would feel with those tiles.
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5 minutes ago, AM-Bunny said:
Mass Effect has one of the most fleshed-out, well written universes in fiction, imo. Warframe is a skeleton world that can barely keep its fundamental facts straight.
Mass Effect has some of the greatest written characters, each deep with lots of development and backstory. Warframe has characters that try to hard to be zany memes but are actually empty shells.
Mass Effect has had a ridiculous amount of time spent developing with huge amounts of resources to devote, while Warframe is constantly clawing to get content out week to week with significantly less funding.
Hardly seems to be a fair comparison, but the fact you're even making it is a huge compliment to Warframe.
............................... there's no comparison. Warframe IS just a shell of a game. It could be more, certainly, if DE had the vision to make it so.
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Is yours fully grown? I acted too quickly and made the charger from Nidus without checking first if you could do something with the room. Now I can't get in with the other infected Warframes.
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On 12/26/2016 at 7:32 AM, Inhauser said:
I guess the problem is that the old content is not fixed, and there is nothing new.
The way I see it, it is not a problem with having to prioritise OLD vs NEW, it is that they simply choose to do the wrong thing. Game modes such as the PvP arenas, Lunaro and, to mention the biggest of them, Archwing, happened. All those things took them huge amount of time, resources and focus. Right behind those were the 'cinematic quests', which they insist on doing as if the players couldn't get much better experiences from games which are cheaper than Warframe (during a Steam sale you can get amazing games with great cinematics for less than $10, but buying any amount of Platinum in Warframe will take you at least those $10, you see).
If instead of 'cinematic quests', PvP modes which are not really satisfactory, Archwing, Lunaro, those raids which never took off because they weren't exactly fun and had no follow-up, new star chart (as if it was even NEEDED in the first place), changes to the Market... Had they spent that developing time spicing up what we currently have in the game, improving the clan system, iterating and improving on the events that were always very successful and brought players to the game instantly, the game would've been in a much better shape.
All they seem to do now is go for novelties which take time and money but don't pay off, and in the meantime they seem to be pushing the necessity for buying platinum, going for huge grind walls and that kind of thing. It feels as if they had forgotten what made their game great and wanted to reinvent the wheel at every turn, but they have been hugely unsuccessful thus far...
DE's game development strategy seems to be to develop a new feature, tweak that feature once, create an entirely separate but somewhat improved version of that system later, tweak that feature once, and then let it sit. That seems to be how we got Dojos and Relays, Focus and Transference, and two different types of solar rails. Rather than fixing or expanding the old features, DE simply creates multiple redundancies while leaving both incomplete.
And yes, lately, we've been getting a lot of side features that simply don't offer much in the way of gameplay experience, while the core game remains underdeveloped.
19 hours ago, (Xbox One)ZenithLord 42 said:That's the thing, I fell in love with the universe and gameplay. I wish the base game would be expanded upon. I don't think we need any more cinematic quests, at the moment.
What the game needs is mission expansion and cohesion. What I mean is that the game is taken as a whole and all of the disparate parts finally all purposefully integrated.
An example of this would be the focus system being integrated into the transference system. As of now each different focus serves no real purpose besides giving a few bonuses. It should augment the transference system as well, providing something else besides a bonus power.
Maybe void dash on Naramon would heal Tenno allies or remove status effects when you dash through them, something like that. I am glad that Archwing sequences were worked into the Uranus and Kuva Fortress tile sets; which is a great example of what I'm talking about!
I fully agree. expansion and cohesion are really what the game needs, and I'd go a little further to argue that the game actually needs a bigger framework to make that possible. Right now the current missions feel like very limited side ops. I think they need to be integrated into a more cohesive mission design. Sure, DE can keep the current single function missions, but those missions can be much more expansive than what they currently are. And I believe DE could expand their scope without making it less fun or more tedious (Assault being one example in the negative). That way, a rescue really feels like a rescue, or a hijack like a hijack, or a sabotage like a sabotage.
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19 hours ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:
Agree with pretty much everything you described.
The main issue is the lack of real new content... The new "content" is mostly reskinned mastery fodder weapons, new skins and cosmetics, a new frame ever six months... Not exactly the kind of stuff that reinvents the wheel in a game with already 30 frames and like 300 weapons... Then there's the cinematic quests, which seem to be the new focus of the game... But these take roughly one to two hours to complete , you do them once and you're done with them... Basically, hyping something that's over in mere minutes seems like it's the wrong focus. We're getting frame reworks, interface reworks, but those are mostly stuff we didn't ask for...All an all, it feels alot of effort is put in on stuff that's going to make DE money (new primes , skins, rivens), but nothing is done to give us new content that's meaningful and will keep veterans invested in the game. And no, grinding isn't being invested, it's being forced to do stuff you're sick of doing over and over to keep yourself occupied.
For 2017, hopefully DE can focus on making new tilesets, new game modes, giving us interesting , new rewards for new and old content, dangling new carrots in front of us. Hopefully we can get frequent events back, and an emphasis on content and not the facade of content... I don't mind cinematic quests and expanding the lore, but if it means not getting meaningful gameplay content, might was well recenter your priorities on gameplay. A game lives or dies on it's gameplay.
3 hours ago, The-Tective said:+1
I agree with everything you said. I played this game for 1530 hours and after so many hours i'm still doing the same things i did after playing just 200 hours. And not because "Oh it's so much fun doing the same thing over and over and over again" but because the only new content we get all the time are new Frames and weapons (and everytime we hope that these "new" weapons are not just reskins of already existing weapons). These new things are just tools that we use in missions.
It feels like i'm playing a pvp centered game (because in pvp centered games i always get different tools like new characters and weapons and play the same mission types over and over again) instead of playing a truly pve centered game that gives me new content to play. I miss progression in this "pve centered game". Progression stops after completing the starchart (after 100 hours gameplay?).
I couldn't agree more. About a month or two ago, I think, someone asked a question about DE's vision for Warframe - what type of game did they want it to be. The response was that Warframe was part-shooter, part-MMO, part-this and part-that; it wasn't supposed to be any one thing. The problem is that as a result, Warframe has become a mashup of partly satisfying, half-baked features, none of which are good enough to sustain lasting interest. More than that, DE's current development approach lacks any real long-term thinking about what they want the game's features to be. That's why we've got neglected Dojos and Relays with an incomplete second level. And it's why we still have a "beta" Focus system and a separate, single-function Transference system.
There really is a big gulf between the content that DE releases and the sort of content that retains player interest. It's just my own personal opinion, but it seems to me that the sorts of perpetual-development games that are successful are the ones that are, for lack of a better term, open-world games. Open-world games thrive because they allow players to create their own experiences. And to do that, these games give players a lot of in-universe content and the freedom to explore and exploit that content. It's the sort of content that games like Skyrim, Witcher, even Assassin's Creed, try to have.
I've said it before, but DE really needs to take a hard look at their priorities for this game. This last cinematic quest highlighted the problem. In my opinion, the "Mountain Pass" mission represented an opportunity to provide an extended gameplay experience that the regular 30-min missions Warframe currently has. It provided a new type of environment, one not quite based on repetitive, familiar tilesets, but on a undiscovered map that needs to be explored. For all its faults (e.g., Operator movement) I thought it was quite a refreshing change from what has been so familiar. I felt the same way about the Mycona part of the Glast Gambit; it felt far more complete than what we tend to get, and it really could have been the launching point for new, lived-in content.
Well, there's so much more I could say, especially on progression and what that should look like. But +1 to you both.
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The problem is that most people play Void Fissures just for the rewards. And that means they want missions to be as fast as possible, so they can farm more quickly. Adding more layers isn't going to make them happy. To really do this, DE would have to have a different gameplay philosophy, one that isn't abut grinding, farming and looting. They'd have to redesign the game around missions that are enjoyable by themselves, regardless of the loot. And right now that just isn't the case.
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I'll say one thing about this: Warframe has grind because DE (and many players here) believe that looters are inherently fun. It's a horrible game philosophy, and it's the very thing that is holding Warframe back and perpetuating the collective frustration here. So until Warframe becomes something other than a looter (how about a shooter?), you will never be free of RNGesus.
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The problem is twofold: 1) it's the wrong type of content, and 2) a single game cannot sustain interest indefinitely without big changes or additions.
First, mods and other items cannot inherently sustain your interest. Why? Because their fundamental purpose is to enhance gameplay. But Warframe's items don't increase the gameplay potential in any way. Therefore, it doesn't matter how many tiers of mods and weapons and Warframes you get; the gameplay doesn't change, and you end up doing the same things with each of them. The sort of content that increases gameplay potential are more substantial. DLCs, especially new mission types, stories and [functionally different] environments increase gameplay potential, which is why most good game companies focus so much on them. So you're clamoring for content that cannot and will not satisfy you.
Second, not even mission types, stories and environments will satisfy you indefinitely. Eventually you get used to these things, and eventually you will get tired of them. What sustains interest is [good quality] novelty. Right now, Warframe's game modes, as different as they are, play out the same way because of limited gameplay mechanics and a rather limited view of gameplay expansion. And what major expansion there is (Archwing, Lunaro) isn't developed or good enough to actually sustain interest. Why do you think most game companies choose to make sequels rather than endless DLCs? Because it's easier to start over and expand gameplay options than to drag a thing out indefinitely. So if DE wants to keep this game going rather than making a new game, then they need to think about overhauling and streamlining the current game with a focus on expanding the scope of the gameplay. Until they are actually willing to do that, however, Warframe will continue to hit ceiling after ceiling.
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16 hours ago, (PS4)underthumb said:
My thoughts on The War Within:
The Good
- As I played it, I kept thinking "This is what Warframe is missing." A sense of story and purpose provided by missions. There are other quests, but they are often just Ordis or some other agent briefly talking at you before sending you on a standard mission. You have no opportunities to express your opinions on what is happening, no opportunities to push back or question these agents. You just silently do as they command.
- Spending time as my operator was great. I want more opportunities to do this. After all, this is Warframe's distinctive conceit: special adolescents controlling other-worldly bodies of space ninjas. It is really the operators at the heart of it all, not the warframes.
- The new operator powers are great. Enjoyed using them.
- I liked the fact that the final battle wasn't just "shoot this thing until it dies". It actually required that one apply the skills taught earlier in the quest.
- The new tile set is fantastic. I love its sprawling and multi-layered nature.
The Bad
- I stated this in a previous post, but the Grineer Queens were a letdown. Warframe doesn't need more overwrought, exaggerated villains. The Grineer Queens would have been much more interesting as calculating and considered foes, rather than easily riled, loud, cartoonishly evil foes. If the queens were somehow behind my operator's abilities, and wanted to simply use my operator's flesh, maybe they should have tried to convince my operator to yield her life willfully to a "higher purpose".
- I encountered a few bugs, and it was not initially clear how to kill the kuva guards. Teshin said I should use my powers like I had with the maw creature, but I had possessed that creature. I initially tried to possess the guards, but this was not the right course of action.
- I shouldn't have to have a wiki open when I start a quest. If you're going to have story quests so spaced out in time, I'm going to need a refresher about who Margulis is and so on. And on a related note, Warframe really needs in-game, written lore. And I don't mean the curt snippets I can get from the codex. I mean at least a few paragraphs explaining the major NPCs and what your operator has done with them up to this point.
- The actual quest was much shorter than I would have expected for the amount of time it took. I suspect that implementing the new operator mechanics, unique animations and so on took a great deal of time. But it immediately made me sad, because I thought, "Is it going to be another year before I see a new quest like this one?" Is there any way to prioritize the creation of these quests? Other studios can clearly make story-based add-ons at a faster clip, so perhaps there are lessons to be learned from other development pipelines. From my perspective, Warframe doesn't need yet more warframes and yet more weapons. It needs more story. If story is a cost center rather than a profit center, then sell me quests. I'm much happier to pay for quests than a new rifle.
I agree. There is little reason for why Warframe's story needs to be such a mess. We don't need any more useless snippets like, "Once the blade weapon of choice for an exclusive order of Tenno assassins, the Karyst dagger grew to become a symbol of honor and duty for all Tenno," with no follow-up or tangible meaning. I get it, DE doesn't really care about this sort of thing because it doesn't sell, which is why the choices at the end of TWW will have a very limited impact, but if they are going to go through the trouble of doing lore, they should go all the way. This half-hearted effort and these half-finished ideas have become very frustrating. We don't need five different sources of vague quotes. We need lore that translates into actual gameplay experience.
I fully agree that this game doesn't really need more Warframes and weapons (at least, not at the volume they are currently pumped out). Warframe needs more substantive content, and that means more story, more environments, more gameplay experiences, etc. That sort of thing is far more important than new, redundant items that very few people end up using.
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19 hours ago, LordOfScrugging said:
Going by that, then Nidus wouldn't fit solely cause veil has infested. Honestly that's like grasping straws. There is no explanation to why they have infested or if they are doing anything with them. We don't have lore for any quests, however we've not played the quest so you don't know if they will do exactly what you are complaining about. Just cause the reward is an infested frame, you assume the quest won't delve into perrin's history. You know what they say about assumptions...
Edit: Regardless, this isn't a thread about what frame themes fit with which factions or about Nidus himself.
This is merely discussion on the new trend of syndicate related frame quests and a wishlist of the frames you would want for the remaining syndicates
The point is that the Red Veil do have Infested stuff. So if the aim is to use the Syndicates in quests to introduce new Warframes, Red Veil is a much better choice than Perrin Sequence.
As for what the quest will do, New Loka's quest and Steel Meridian's event are pretty good indicators. Neither of those delved in any way into the history of the Syndicates. New Loka's was about their hatred of genetic manipulation and the history of Titania (and transference technology). That being a basis, we won't get anything about Perrin Sequence's history, and certainly nothing in depth about the Corpus themselves. Now of course, I'd absolutely love to be wrong about that. But the fact that the Perrin Sequence quest is going to be about an Infested problem, with a particular related villain tells me they are just going to fall back on the worn out, silly Alad V rather than take the opportunity to really show us something long overdo.
As for the trend of syndicate-related frame quests and a wishlist, Nidus+Red Veil was on my wishlist. And for the others, I'd at least like frames that could somewhat fit with the syndicates. What's the point if it's just random pairings?
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18 hours ago, (Xbox One)LAZYNOOB2015 said:
Well I mean, they took control of Teshin and controlled our Warframe for a brief moment and also almost took control of our minds using Transferrence. No Grineer has ever done that. I mean Vor tried but still.
What I mean is that they should have been the most fearsome in terms of actually fighting them. Turns out they were dependent on one non-Orokin looking Orokin staff. That's not fearsome. At the very least they should have been a bit more majestic. They are supposed to be Queens after all. Rather than coming across like the Wicked Witch, the Queens should have at least seemed like Orokin, if that's the route they were going for. They didn't come across as Grineer Queens so much as Grineer Grandma and child.
Plains of Eidolon
in General Discussion
Posted
+1 I fully agree that these Landscapes need a LOT of content to survive. I have my own ideas for what Plains of Eidolon needs to really be a success, but there's a lot here that I agree with, especially the role that Syndicates can play.