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About Gurpgork

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  1. Well, the problems with the individual frame in this case are clear, and it's that Saryn stomps the very idea of coop into the dirt. But yes, the bigger problem I'm talking about is loot caving, and it's not a new problem. Look up Vivergate if you want to see just how far back that conversation goes. DE has already tried introducing new enemies that require tactics besides just playing Saryn, and Saryn is still fairly prominent in missions that have those exact enemies. Like maybe Arbitration drones pushed us to something more of a tank meta, but A) creating conditions where Saryn is arbitrarily gimped only hides the problems she creates instead of solving them and B) Arbitration drones seriously harmed frames that rely on Exalted weapons or CC. Also, like. You're really presenting this like you think that curbing the kill speed of at most 3 Warframes is such a preposterous/terrible solution that DE should instead attempt to outright fix the rest of the game's problems. The problem at hand is that someone else playing Saryn actively ruins my playstyle, which involves, I dunno, actually fighting enemies. It also likely ruins the playstyle of the other two people in my squad. You're framing people who want Saryn changed as selfish and anti-fun, but one person can pick Saryn and instantly torpedo the fun of 3 other people. You're saying that this is like a kid being annoyed that their sibling is having too much fun with a harmless toy, but it's more like there's one kid on the playground whose idea of fun is taking all the Frisbees and not letting anyone else have one. Having Saryn in her current state feels like there's a bug that causes 1 out of every 6 defense missions to only spawn 5-10% the normal number of enemies. We all have playstyles we don't like, and that's okay. I'm willing to live and let live on someone liking Rhino or Hydroid. But the moment that your playstyle impedes on my ability to play the game, it becomes my problem.
  2. The fact that people gravitate to the most efficient way to kill enemies as fast as possible doesn't mean that they prefer it or even like it. When every grind squad was Nekros, Frost, Mesa, and Mag, people weren't extracting very much fun from that experience. But they were extracting lots of mods and resources, and that is the one and only reason these grind squads appeared the way they did. People would literally put these squads on macros because they were so mindless and boring to play. So most people gravitating towards whatever kills the most enemies the fastest isn't an endorsement of how fun it is, because it's done for pretty much the same reason that I have a job. The lack of reliable top tier DPS options exists only in comparison to Saryn and Volt. Khora, Atlas, Wukong, Excalibur, Nezha, and Ivara can pump out hundreds of thousands of damage, but they all have limited scope and can't compete with something that can damage everything in your current zip code at the same time. The problem is not that most DPS Warframes are bad, it's that Saryn can kill everything on the map with two button presses, and that feat is fundamentally impossible to compete with. If Saryn wasn't head and shoulders above everything else in terms of kill rate, then the playing field would be pretty even. Exactly. All these Saryn players force me to play a walking simulator against my will. It's really inconsiderate of them.
  3. And that's totally valid, but cooperative play can coexist with meaningful progression. And under no circumstances does "progression" have to mean "one player can play the mission for four people with basically no effort." I have thousands of hours in the game, and Saryn still annoys the hell out of me. The thing that keeps me invested in the game is working on builds and loadouts and finding interesting weapon/Warframe synergies and stuff like that, and nothing makes that feel like wasted effort faster than Saryn stepping into the mission and effortlessly obliterating everything within 3 rooms of her. As one of the players with thousands of hours in the game that you want to protect, I guarantee I feel far more alienated when I'm stuck in a ghost town of a mission with a Saryn than I do when I have to play with low level players and/or fight enemies below level 100. And unless you're proposing we fight level 3,000 level enemies, Saryn doesn't take much more time to kill a high level enemy than a low level one, and it definitely doesn't take more effort. Hell, it might be easier for her to kill a level 150 enemy than a level 15 enemy, because she needs big health pools for her damage to accumulate. Warframe is, at its core, a casual coop game, and it will thrive much more on freedom of choice and exploration than it will on sweaty tryhard endgame content. This would be a much smaller problem if being an overpowered vet didn't mean that you can kill everything on the map with basically zero effort. You can make Khora's Whipclaw do absolutely stupifying amounts of damage if you have the endgame resources, but that doesn't mean that Khora can kill everything on the map before the other players even know that it spawned. You don't have to go far down the list of things to nerf before you've created a significantly healthier coop environment. Even if Maiming Strike spam was left standing as the last bastion of our current meta, that leaves behind a very different game. Because in order to use Maiming Strike to kill everything on the map before your allies can touch it, you have to know where the enemies are first, and you also have to have the mobility to get to them the fastest. That is a dramatically different thing from Saryn or Volt getting almost all of the kills basically because they set foot in the mission.
  4. Yeah. If you could just touch/go, it might work out pretty well. But having to hang there for a whole two seconds and no less is actually awful. And all this to make it comparable to EB. Not superior. Comparable.
  5. First of all, thanks for the suggestion. It's pretty alright. However, Gears is honestly right about this. Just because we can work around the problem of Baruuk having a weak ult doesn't mean it isn't still a problem. It's also just kind of cumbersome and leaves a lot to be desired. Like having to manage an additional 20 second timer on top of having to manage energy, restraint, DH daggers, and likely Zenurik is a lot of UI things to keep track of at once. This could honestly merit a thread of its own. Baruuk has a lot of balls to juggle just to get to the point where you're playing Excalibur, but tanky. And after all of that, the idea that it surpasses Exalted Blade is a highly contestable claim. 60% status chance vs 100% status chance is a huge difference, and status is the primary thing that makes Exalted Blade so good. It's also seriously held back by its low attack speed in the status department. So I don't see this as a universal solution to all of Baruuk's DW woes.
  6. I dunno about this. I feel like this is changing way more than it needs to and really only creates a sidegrade of current Baruuk in the process, if not making him worse. Like take the orbiting daggers from Desolate Hands, for example. It would be a good change to make it better at its job of disarming enemies, but letting it disarm everything it damages with the explosion would accomplish a similar thing, only with less waiting for daggers to chain around the room. I feel like this is making it more complex than it needs to be. I agree with the premise of why you're advocating for changing Elude, but I don't think that draining energy per hit is the buff you think it is. That may cut the base energy drain, but if you're getting attacked with automatic weapons, this would absolutely fry your energy pool. And the CC synergies from Serene Storm are interesting, but the ability already has quite a lot of CC. Also the devs could just bump the status chance to 20-30% instead, and then it would be way better at killing things and really wouldn't need any CC at all. Not to mention that trading his easiest access to reliable 90% DR for ~7% DR worth of armor is a terrible trade. Heck, trading 90% direct DR for the equivalent amount of DR in armor would be a bad trade, because armor takes more damage from various damage types in the game and doesn't protect shields. We're talking about completely overhauling a Warframe that only really needs minor buffs, and I just don't see the good that would do.
  7. I agree with everything you said, but honestly, the CC on all of the Desert Wind combos feels really janky. The push combo puts enemies out of reach of your damage, the stasis combo is pretty much worthless as you said, and the pull combo pretty much feels like a knockdown more than an actual pull effect. Really only the slide and the RMB ground slam stand out as good CC combos. And to a certain extent, all of it feels really weird to have on a Warframe that has really good CC to begin with. Condition Overload exists and so do many, many ways to spread status effects. I haven't had any problems with the damage of Desert Wind since instant melee swapping was introduced and I could bring a Zakti. Even just a sentinel or a MOA with a Cryota lets me muscle through enemies in the level ~130 range without much of a problem at all.
  8. Funny that I summoned you by mentioning Zephyr, but also mentioned Wukong and haven't summoned DeMonkey. Although jury's still out on that, I suppose. You make some really excellent points, but we've sorta made a jump from "Gauss is kinda meh and so are the other new Warframes" to trying to fix all of the game's problems in this one little thread. So I'm going to address your points in more depth tomorrow. Again, kinda getting into "fix the entire game" territory, so I don't really have the time or energy to fully address this tonight, but I'm glad you mentioned this. Something I've been noticing lately is that even in arbitrations and disruption missions--both of which actively discourage heavy ability use through ability immune enemies--Saryn is still pretty much ubiquitous. More so in Arbitrations than in disruption, but my point still stands. Now we can debate whether this happens because the game inherently encourages a high kill rate over anything else or if this is a problem with Saryn's balance specifically, but for now I'm going to cop out and say that there's a lot of both at play here. This is sorta just nitpicking semantics. The point is that DE looked at these Warframes, made some adjustments, and then still left them in a somewhat disappointing state with major problems with no ETA on further changes.
  9. And ultimately the entire point I'm making would be pretty much a non-issue if new Warframes consistently got the buffs they needed after release. There's definitely something to be said for the PR thing, and I understand that viewpoint. I just feel like it's resulting in too many Warframes that are just really meh and forgettable. But again, I'd be a lot more favor of the system if there was the sufficient followup. I did not say that this problem was universal and absolute. Only that it has been a general pattern, and that the majority of Warframes since Atlas have had it. I will concede that there was some give and take in the adjustment from the old philosophy to the new one, but the old system had some pretty serious problems. Maybe Trinity has more common builds than Wisp does, but the old philosophy very much boils down to "Do you use the one usable ability, or do you completely gut it and use the other usable ability?" And Trinity epitomizes this problem, because you either make Energy Vampire completely broken, which destroys Blessing, or you build for Blessing, which severely hampers Energy Vampire. Maybe what we have now leads to less interesting builds, but the old system, as Knight Raime said, lead to the boring "press x to win" gameplay. And the old system didn't even always lead to a wider variety of builds. Nekros spent a very long time as a 3 spammer before his first rework (one who doesn't even participate in the mission, mind you), Valkyr basically only ever built for duration and is largely unchanged in that to this day, Saryn had an iteration where she used nothing but Miasma with minimum duration, and Ash used to just press 4 to cutscene. Ivara is a Warframe I hold in extremely high regard. Ideally I'd want pretty much everything on Ivara's level in terms of having four good abilities with minimal overlap and really good build diversity. Btw of the 3 Nova builds you mentioned, at least 2 of them are still focused around Molecular Prime, but one has 145% strength and the other has 40%. I wouldn't exactly call that a win whether you look at it from either design philosophy. Well first of all this is a thread criticizing the newer Warframes for being underpowered. Also, power is not inherently indicative of good design. Energy Vampire is really powerful, but it's badly designed because it directly benefits from something that is supposed to be a detriment (negative duration). I'm pretty sure this is a joke, but I would like to make it clear that I'm not trying to attack anyone for liking any of the Warframes I cited as being too weak. Hell, I've even been playing a lot of Baruuk lately, even if I feel like he's a lot of tedium and resource management to basically be an Excalibur sidegrade.
  10. I would like to start out by saying that in general, the new design philosophy that the dev team has adopted with Warframe design is great. Having four coherent abilities that work together to reach a common goal is vastly superior to having one broken ability and three worthless ones like many of the old Warframes had. However, a consistent problem with new Warframe releases is that the majority of them have been underpowered on arrival. Whether they need number tweaks, are plagued with usability problems, or just flat out don't do enough, the bulk of the new Warframes have been lacking power. And this isn't really a new problem, either. Gauss is definitely the most recent example of this (it takes a ton of effort to get him to his peak strength, and then his peak isn't all that high), but this problem goes back at least as far as Atlas, and arguably even goes as far back as Oberon. Since and including Atlas, 11 of the last 17 Warframes have had this problem. If we go back to Oberon, then 17 of the last 25 Warframes have had this problem. Like, when was the last time you played a mission and saw someone playing Baruuk? What about Hildryn? Or Revenant? On some level, I understand why DE chooses to lowball the strength of new Warframes. It's bad to release a new god Warframe that pushes more power creep, and then having to nerf it later, much to the displeasure of the community. But I'd argue that the problem that comes with new Warframes being weak is worse: They are played for a couple weeks, and then basically forgotten about. This is a problem because the entire point of making new Warframes is so that people will play them. And if they're played for a few weeks and then shelved, then they have not successfully lived up to the purpose that they were created for in the first place. This wouldn't really be a problem if the new Warframes got appropriate buffs after their releases, but that doesn't always happen, which means that reworks need to happen down the line. And while this has been effective with Wukong and Nezha, it hasn't always worked out as well as it did for those two; Atlas and Titania have had reworks since their release and still have glaring problems in their kits. This is a problem I've been concerned about for a while now, and I'm especially concerned considering the upcoming release of Grendel. Grendel has a really unique and interesting concept, and he's getting an entire new animation skeleton. It would be a shame to have him hampered with weak abilities or unnecessary restrictions that lead to him being forgotten. I don't really want to see even more power creep, but I'd rather see another Saryn than another Zephyr. I'd rather have a little bit more power creep than an ever-growing pile of forgotten Warframes.
  11. Crowd control and damage avoidance are not contradictory to the tank role. Yes, being able to directly shoulder hits is pretty essential to being a tank, but nothing will improve the survivability of a tank faster than reducing the amount of hits you need to shoulder in the first place. Survivability isn't just about stacking as many effective hitpoints as possible. It's about making sure that the incoming damage is lower than your EHP. So the fact that Baruuk can use CC to shut down enemy damage makes his other abilities complimentary to his role as a tank, not contradictory.
  12. I think the problem that DE has with new Warframes in general is that they aim to make them too weak on release and buff them later, rather than making them too strong on release and nerfing them later. And while this is partially about Wisp and Gauss and Garuda (especially Gauss out of those three), we've seen this at least as far back as Atlas. And many of the Warframes released this way--Atlas, Khora, and Titania, to name a few--still have most of their problems to this day, even after reworks happened. And I understand why they do it this way. They don't want new ultra OP Warframes to completely dominate the game for months, only for them to eventually take that power away and get people throwing tomatoes at them because is pve gaem no nerfs ever no kill my fun😠 But on the other hand, the literal point of developing new Warframes is so that people will use them, and if a new Warframe is too weak, then people aren't going to play them. People aren't going to buy them. Tennogen creators aren't going to make new cosmetics for them. The revenue angle of this might sound a bit cynical, but DE should really start overtuning Warframes on release, because I'd rather have a handful of god frames that could stand to be toned down than having a bunch of Warframes that are used for a few weeks after release and then forgotten about.
  13. Hot take but everything they added to the tables this patch should have gone to the store. Rotations should give you Endo, Ayatan, and Vitus, while the store gives you the mods, arcanes, and cosmetics. I don't understand why they added a token system, but then only let you get a handful of things with the tokens.
  14. ^This. And not just that, but there are other weapons that have equal or greater AoE compared to launchers without self damage. We already have the Arca Plasmor, the Amprex, the Staticor, the Opticor, and not to mention... Just to name a few. Furthermore, consider the Ogris. The Ogris has really mediocre stats, but it can still one shot you if you slip up or if a kavat abruptly walks in front of you. Compare this to, say, the Arca Plasmor, which has really good stats and no self damage. Like not only is self damage a terrible restriction, but it's also applied to lots of weapons that are objectively worse in both damage and AoE while still carrying the risk of instant death. The Ogris would have to have immensely powerful stats to compensate for the risk you're shouldering by using it, and well. That 5% crit chance would like a word. And also, like. Does anyone remember when they gave the Staticor self damage? That weapon was one of the favorite weapons of the community, and people pretty much ditched it as soon as that change was made. Anyway the point I'm making here is that self damage doesn't deter bad positioning or "idiotic" play, but it actually just deters people from using the weapon at all.
  15. Three years ago, I probably would have agreed with you on this. But today, there are so many ways, new and old, to be functionally immortal in this game. Rhino and Oberon are ten times the tanks they used to be, Umbral mods and Adaptation exist now, Nidus is a thing, and healing Arcanes are more abundant and easier to get than they've ever been. Not to mention that the old invisibility juggernauts are just as good as they've always been. There's even the new Diakyu mod that gives Nikanas lifesteal. Life Strike is indisputably effective, but it's definitely not mandatory anymore.
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