JeyJ13
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Posts posted by JeyJ13
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I am Starting to get &!$$ed by seeing people complain about a nerf which was needed to an way too strong gun.... this game is not fun when you use a gun that one or two shots even the most powerful enemies
I don't think you actually read it, because it isn't a complaint exactly.
Is this still a thing?
I'm not sure you understand the point I am actually trying to get across.
I don't notice any damage differences.
Brakk damage shifted more towards impact instead of being (what I think was) straight 80s(although, that was probably my damage mod). It lost some of its puncture (perfectly logical), some of its slash (don't know why it is actually still as high as it is), and gained impact (again, makes sense). I think overall it may have gained a bit through the impact, and with the original Damage 2.0 resistance tables, impact wasn't as useful for a multipurpose weapon with a singular strong damage type. Now, I think with the 11.5 update, the Brakk's impact damage is way more effective.
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I don't think you read the whole of the original post either, at least not the very beginning where the original poster expressed his view on the exact points which the second poster touched on (falloff is good aka "perfect sense", the nerf/balance was done well). This makes it perfectly relevant.
It's part of his presentation of OP's view, which the 2nd poster disagreed with. Therefore, it's a perfectly relevant response. If OP wanted to avoid this, he should have refrained from expressing his views on it being good while sticking strictly to his points about the effect of the incident on the community. It's perfectly doable. It just was not done. Hence, the 2nd post.
And yet 2nd post still really has nothing to do with the main point of my post. In the end, whether or not the Brakk needed nerfed and why is irrelevant. Maybe it did, maybe it didn't, but the fact that it was nerfed a while after the fact instead of before release or shortly after is part of the problem. 3rd post is on the right track. As for the main, I attempted to take the middle-of-the-road approach (and probably failed) in order to help give reasons as to the good and bad points about the nerf while leading up to the major point.
I am by no means a master communicator, but some people understood the real point. My real feelings about the Brakk did not come up until later posts and they still don't matter! 2nd poster picked one small set of words (if he read it) and responded based on that. This is not new, either. People see "Brakk" and immediately go on how it is still "too OP" and how horrible I am that I played 100+ missions to get it. The fact that the gut response to the Brakk is complaining in either direction could be expanded upon in another thread.
This is not the place for it.
This is about the reputation of the nerf and why it shouldn't have happened the way that it did even if it needed it. It could have happened differently, but it didn't. People have been expressing concerns about the Twin Wraith Vipers being nerfed shortly after release, and this aims to present the reasons why. Honestly, I expect people to complain about the TWVs being to powerful, anyway. Somewhere, someone will always complain about something even if everything is fine. I'm not trying to say that the Brakk did or did not need nerfed as the main point, but even if it was then like it is now, people would have complained for some reason. I believe that nobody will be happy all at the same time, nor should they be. Sometimes it takes people like them to get problems handled, and sometimes the constant bickering is annoying.
The Brakk nerf might not have everybody worried, but there are people. The timing of the Brakk nerf seems as silly as nerfing the Lato Prime or Skana Prime two weeks after Founder status was made unavailable. Some people argued that even exclusive items shouldn't be immune, so why not nerf the Founder items in that case? True, the Brakk is different and even I sheepishly admit that it was far too accurate for the shotguns in this game, but the point remains. Nerfing exclusive items shouldn't happen. They should be made as they were. What the problem with the Brakk was is that the bar was set too high, and it seemed like a long fall to where it is today. No, the nerf isn't as bad as it seems, but if exclusive items get nerfed, why take such a long time to earn them? That, my friend is the major point here. The reputation will live on one way or another, and people will always wonder if their event rewards will be nerfed since this happened.
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Might be because some folks don't agree with you but agree with the second poster, who actually points out that despite the nerfs, Cosmic Squash is still a monster.
Considering that the first post is a wall of text and just words, it is more likely that they just didn't read it. Second post is just a regurgitation of old complaints that everyone has heard before and completely misses what the first post is about.
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Unfortunately, it seems that most people aren't even reading the first post, and a few people up-voted the second post even though it is quite obvious he didn't read the first post to begin with and it has no real value in this thread.
However, this is about what I had expected to begin with. People immediately come and complain about something that doesn't even matter anymore because they feel they need to contradict aggressively for no other reason that the words "Brakk" and "Nerf" were in the title.
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I'll preface this with the fact that I think your argument is invalid since your argument against the nerf is "its a co-op game, so people with OP stuff doesn't matter" and your second argument that the nerf was both good and bad, at the same time! I think you need to get some sleep, sir
the brakk nerf was necessary, everyone knows it was OP, it was second to the acrid before damage 2.0, and upon the release of damage 2.0 it took the gold. it was versatile, but the purpose of damage 2.0 is to use different weapons, and makes many different weapons viable. but if you really wanted to get the most out of your weapon, you needed to use the top of the top. and brakk was precisely that. the lack of damage falloff did make it so you could basically snipe stuff across the map, and it had a tighter spread than the bronco series. it was a crazy killer with decent status and critical chance, especially considering it was a shotgun (lots of pellets)
but we're not here to resurrect that argument. as for people expecting a nerf on the twin wraith vipers, before they even come out, that's utterly stupid. I can understand your point, insinuating a sort of aversion therapy, where people have been burned before, and thus are expecting it again. but if DE just has some foresight, they can probably make a well-balanced weapon right from the start. also, since they are based on the twin vipers, the stats will be based off of them, but just better. brakk and detron weren't based off of anything, so how was DE to know how it would turn out? the TWV's may get some tweaks, sure, everything does, but not a full-on nerf just because
also, event weapons, despite their exclusivity, shouldn't be immune to the nerf bat. if they need a nerf, they should get it
I'm not entirely sure you understand, but I can agree with the damage 2.0 needing the Brakk dialed back a notch or two.
I just think it should have been done probably before it was released or bundled with the original U11 release. As for the sniping thing...it was possible, but never the best use of ammo on a key mission. I actually think the tweaked damage is more realistic and gives a new way that it needs to be played. What I don't like is the damage falloff being so close. I would rather have a bigger spread and an extended range, personally.
As for why it was truly a bad idea to nerf it, the reputation of a nerfed event weapon makes people suspicious and nervous about future event weapons.
Nerfing event weapons shouldn't really be done. They should be immune simply because they are special AND they should stay close to how they were released (primarily because they should be released balanced how they should be already). If an event weapon is absolutely terrible at release, I would be happy without a buff.
The nerf was good because brakk deserved it. The nerf was bad because it was supposed to be done before they ever released it.
Also from what i see OP wasn't arguing that they shouldn't have nerfed brakk, rather that brakk shouldve come out balanced in the first place.
You just got it right again, I think.
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My thoughts, almost exactly. The only difference is that i think brakk was op, but not in terms of dps, rather in terms of making people use it and destroying variety of weapons used by players.
I can see that. Diversity of weapons keeps it interesting, but the Brakk wasn't supreme (almost, but not quite) back then. Now I rarely see it even mentioned as a trophy, unfortunately.
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Nice you took it from a different perspective in analyzing the brakk nerf. Usually people were like 'damage falloff and more spread made it unusable on longer range!' And stuff like that doesnt tend to end peacefully xD
I believe that de should not have made event weapons that op because of they do, they are going to nerf it, and it doesnt really set a good example on people as well as creating more violent arguments in forums. Also, it makes people get a stereotype for event weapons: 'totally OP weapons but they get nerfed'
Imo snipetron vandal was a pretty well made event weapon since, yes it was a strong event weapon and the strongest sniper for a long time, but it wasnt so that it needed/deserved a nerf. And thats how i want twin wraith vipers to be.
Now I think you actually got it.
I myself don't quite want the Brakk to go back to the way it was and I don't actually think it is OP before (my opinion, though. This is a co-op game and kills are a bit irrelevant), but I don't think it should have been nerfed simply because it was an event weapon. I think the balancing should be done before release as best as possible. I am hoping the the Twin Wraith Vipers will be good, but never nerfed (adding another one to the list of nerfed event weapons would be a bad idea).
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The real mistake was in releasing the brakk at such an OP state in the first place.
I think you understand, sir. At least part of it, anyway.
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I may be really late to the party, but I really think I have figured something out.
After pondering the Brakk nerf over for a long while, I came to realize that unlike what the copy-pasters of "Oh no. Another Brakk QQ thread", the Brakk nerf is actually very bad. Why? Allow me to explain:
The Brakk itself was an overpowered shotgun secondary when it first arrived and it wasn't properly balanced to the game, which is nothing to complain about because this game is co-op and kills don't matter as long as you actually try (unless you are competing with friends for kill amounts, which is just your own choice where the Brakk was completely unfair most of the time). When U11 rolled around, the Brakk still remained solidly high-powered as an event weapon that people owned with pride and used on a regular basis. It had no downside, really. It was perfect.
Then, the nerf.
The nerf changed the damage types to make them completely different, which invalidated a few builds, but not really that bad.
The nerf made the spread bigger. Why not? It is a hand held shotgun after all.
The nerf changed the damage falloff to make it extremely useless at range. Back to the one-handed shotgun idea, and it makes perfect sense, really.
In short, the nerf brought it into balance with the rest of the game and ruined it completely.
Have I confused you yet? If not, excellent.
So, why then was the nerf that bad? Because it broke an event weapon. Or so a whole lot of people think. It is completely different from what it was.
Again, why was it bad?
It isn't and is all at the same time!
The Brakk itself may not be as good as it once was and maybe it never should have been that good, but it was an event reward. Event rewards may need fixed every now and again, but in the eyes of many players, it is a bad idea.
So then what is bad? The nerf, of course! Lost? Allow me to elaborate, again.
The Brakk nerf itself took on a whole life of its own, and perhaps got a little overplayed, but its reputation lives on. Some people out there are expecting the new Twin Wraith Vipers to be nerfed not long after release, too, and because of the Brakk. The nerf itself had an effect that could easily be compensated for if you knew what you are doing, and it didn't matter for functionality, but the fact that it was an event weapon made it just that tiny bit worse. Maybe not everyone is worried about the new event weapon getting the nerf hammer immediately, but every now and again people wonder about it at the corners of the internet.
"Will the next one be nerfed?" The answer: Everything will get nerfed as more stuff is added, probably. Why? In order to get people to mix and match loadouts for better teamwork, probably.
The worst part about "The Brakk Nerf" is most likely the fact that it polarized people. You were either for it or against it if you talked about it, it seemed. People get trolled and ridiculed for "QQ"ing when sometimes it was just an attempt at discussion. In the end, this is just a game! Nothing here actually matters! Life will (most likely) go on!
So why bring it up after it has been buried? I felt like it. I am still unhappy with the new Brakk even though I might even think that I like it better now (I admit nothing). Life goes on and Warframe will keep improving, even if it means nerfing everything (which I do NOT support). This post is not to cause an argument or incite any sort of anger, just to bring about discussion. Sometimes people get rude and crazy over things that don't matter, and we need to try to look at things more objectively. The Brakk Nerf itself is an interesting concept to analyze after the fact if you are willing to try to see the bigger picture (or if you are bored and are on a nice philosophical train to nowhere).
I hope you enjoyed this analytical observation/essay.
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Considering that I still have to run it with my clan, it is not a gigantic setback, but I would like to know for sure that it won't happen again before I assemble a vermillion myself.
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So, I had found a lobby where a very generous and giving person used a vermillion antitoxin on the event mission and we got 100 points at the end of the match with everyone extracted. The problem was that afterwards, the screen went black and would not respond, and eventually it crashed. When I logged back in, my event points were a wonderful total of 25 from when I had done the mission before.
Now the questions here are:
A. Is it just taking a long time to update?
B. Will I be given credit for doing the mission if it doesn't show on my profile right now?
If not the second one, I assume I will have to run it again and hope that the game will save after extraction. I am preparing to run it again anyways, but it is really frustrating to lose event progress.
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I hope I'm not being overly repetitive, obvious, or rude, but other people (including myself) have noticed that Vor was scaling really high already on Mercury and Alad V also scales higher than other bosses. I even made a thread with screenshots on it too, but I guess that thread died.
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I fought Vor solo and with people, and he stayed in the 35-50 range. With a full team, he was a lvl 40, with a 2 man squad, he was a lvl 45.
I also fought some other bosses and it looks to me that only Vor and Alad V are too superpowered for the people in the lobby. Whether it is someone's first time or a third time or a veteran trying to help somebody he just recruited, Vor and Alad V are still higher level than almost everybody else.
Yet the Jackal is still level 7 for me solo...but Vor is 50...it just makes no sense and would force me to have anybody that I recruited to the game play through the boss by themselves if they wanted to leave Mercury and hope they didn't fail.
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Well, Thank you very much for your help. After U11 changed levels, I'm not really even sure what a T3 Survial or Defense is anymore (still lvl 30+?), but I will try to find them. At least now I have more of a reason to do higher-tier survivals.
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Are there any particular places that you would recommend for T2 keys? I have never bothered to intentionally farm them before.
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The problem I face is doing survival seems to only hand out T1 keys, even at 35 minutes and past. Perhaps I just need to do a more difficult survival?
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Hello there. Would anyone happen to know the best/most efficient/easiest place to farm T2 or T3 keys as of late? I would like to obtain a handful of exterminate keys to help a friend find the last piece of Frost Prime, but I seem to have run out of the good keys. And, because apparently something is up with armor now, T2 would probably be preferred.
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Came here to report the same, got him as lvl 47 ;_; Reduced loadout, still had him as lvl 23 >.<
Lucky you. I reduced my loadout and he went even higher. Maybe it is because I was still using my rhino with its super-shields, but that is still rediculous. Scaling bosses is fine, but I have had teams of 4 run out of ammo, even after scouring the entire map, because Vor is such a high level.
Edit note: Edited to remove what would seem to be stray nbsp and amp; tags.
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Wow, context is so important...~Immature mind moment~
^This. Topic could have been reworded slightly.
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I don't want to run Vor again if he keeps being a level of 35 or higher, really. It is the first boss. I can understand him being a higher level for me than for a newbie, but 45?!? That is just a wee bit crazy.Maybe the game decided that I was a too lucky and decided to make him way overpowered or something.
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Around lv 80 actually.
Well, my math isn't perfect. Someone said lvl 40 was equevalent to a 100, so I took a shot.
Ah I guess i didn't notice you pointing this out. So even low level planet bosses are in the 30s, yea okay that does seem a bit much.
Jupiter and Mercury seem to be having this. It almost makes sense on Jupiter, but definitely not Mercury or Venus. Maybe it is just a bug that I have hit several times in a row or something, but who knows. I know I'm not the only person experiencing this.
Edit: Added screenshot of last Mercury run. Did one after someone said level 7 Jackal, thinking that I had maybe imagined the entire thing. Maybe the Jackal is still fine, but I need Morphics AND Vor was where I first had a problem so he seemed to be the better example.
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Level 38 is practically the equivalent of a pre-U11 level 100 (I think). Mercury's boss shouldn't be that high. Maybe if Vor shows up on another planet, but Mercury?
If I were just starting out with no good gear, no resources, and no credits, this game would look really, really lousy. I'm all for a challenge, but isn't that what the alert bosses are?
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After the 11.3 patch, I noticed that bosses, except for Phorid, seem to be level 35+ now. I tried switching gear around to low-leveled stuff, but that did absolutely nothing. Is this supposed to be happening now? All the lobbies that I have been in with these conditions end with everyone giving up because the boss is still at 60%+ health and nobody has any ammo left.
Screenshot for proof (Vor on Mercury at Level 45):
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=203369647
Vor on Mercury at level 46:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=203467861
If the link doesn't work or does something weird, I will try to fix it.
And I noticed that Vor doesn't have a horde of people trying to take him down anymore, so this is probably why.
And good luck leaving Mercury newbies. I seriously hope that Vor isn't super-leveled for you guys.
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Well, the damages make sense now. At least infested aren't resistant to slash (other than Phorid), and it has definitely improved. I don't mind even major resistances, but the confusing duality of major weakness/major resistance on enemies was...a bit much. Honestly, the system simply makes more sense now, and I am happy. Thanks guys! Keep up the good work!
An Opinion On Why The Brakk Nerf Was Bad And Why It Is Still Bad
in Weapons
Posted
People are people, and off-topic is to be expected. As for ridicule, that is not the goal. The post is unrelated to the true point. That is all.