[The process of gilding kitguns is is horribly, objectively flawed.]

17 minutes ago, (PS4)Vodka_Vision_ said:

Ok. I can agree that there's a lot of dead content that needs to get cleaned up. 

However, whining that kit guns are broken because you made a mistake in grabbing one too early without using any resources or exploring the content more before jumping on it is asinine. If you won't buy new mod slots or farm for plat, just delete the kit gun. If you want to whine about having to waste the materials you spent time grinding for, I'd hate to see your reaction to other MMOs.

It wasn't a mistake, it was more like a trick. I've said it all before, but to sum up here, the game basically threw a kitgun at me. There was absolutely zero signposting to say making one was a bad idea, and tons of in-game encouragement to make one as soon as possible. It was presented as a tutorial. I keep coming back to that, and people keep dismissing it, but it's true. Starting planet, pretty early into that planet, NPC screaming across the map about them the second I walk in. Able to do it after one low level quest, cheap. Easy to farm resources right outside of the city, super low level enemies, no faction standing requirement, and foundry construction times that are literally only otherwise seen on tutorial items. Without something saying "this is endgame content" you'd literally never know that. It is in no way gated, no way difficult, no way expensive, and the weapons themselves are barely more powerful than the standard stuff on offer. It isn't until you gild them, drop a bunch of forma, and get an arcane that they become something special. And I'm fine with all that being endgame, buy why does the gun itself; a gloried TUTORIAL item, not allow me to gain mastery rank when doing so is one of the most important things for me to be doing?

Secondly, it's funny that you mention other MMOs because they all do something that makes it clear when you've wandered into endgame; level gating. Warframe half-asses it with master locks on market place guns, but kitguns have no master lock on them. Putting one on there would pretty much solve everything. Make them like a MR10 or MR15 or something, and all of these issues go away. Its a simple, obvious fix, so of course DE are too incompetent to do it. But yeah, be careful when invoking the specter of MMOs to defend all this grind, because by comparison Warframe is a really S#&$ty MMO. And I've played some bad ones. Warframe is just a hair better than Korean free-to-play bad. Again; if it weren't for the moment to moment play being so fun, this game would have been bought up by Perfect World and left to die in obscurity a long time ago.

[The process of gilding kitguns is is horribly, objectively flawed.]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)Vodka_Vision_ said:

How do kitguns prevent you from raising mastery? It's not like you can't get any other weapon while you have them in your inventory...

You mean the like, 13 weapons total I can have at any given time? Raising MR requires a constant cycle of craft weapon > rank weapon > delete weapon. Nothing is in the back burner; there is no back burner. If it isn't building MR it's taking up space and should be tossed in the trash.

I was told before that I should trade for plat and buy more slots, but that just started a whole other thing. And that other thing, and this thing, and another thing, all ultimately comes down to the same core issue; Digital Extremes doesn't know what the heck they're doing. This game is a mess. A very fun mess. But a damned mess all the same. One problem leads to another problems leads to another problem because one feature depends on another feature depends on a missing feature, depends on a broken feature. I mean honestly; this game has been out for like six or more years and yet still feels like a half baked early access title. If the moment to moment play wasn't so fun, it would have crashed and burned long ago. 

[The process of gilding kitguns is is horribly, objectively flawed.]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Vodka_Vision_ said:

You know what you do with 6 mod capacity? Find a polarized weapon, put your best mod on and go grind Lith, or one of the other defense/survival missions you've unlocked. You can buy enough weapons to rank up to MR10 from the marketplace in your Orbiter just fine. Don't have to use plat, just credits and mats.

First off, basic math. Hornet Strike at max has a cost of 14. With a polarized slot that drops to 7. At MR6 any pistol I have will only have 6 capacity. Solve for "that won't work" and remember to show your equations.

Secondly, all you've done is sidestep the issue I raised. So I'll ask again; why are new player encouraged to craft (super easy and inexpensive to obtain) weapons that prevent them from raising their mastery rank, while also not being informed that those weapons prevent them from doing so?

[The process of gilding kitguns is is horribly, objectively flawed.]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Vodka_Vision_ said:

Ok, you're mistaken about how levels work in warframe. MR levels don't mean anything except to provide some minor bonuses, and unlocking weapons. Mod capacity has the same mechanics for an MR1 as an MR28. MR only allows you to start with more mod slots on an unranked weapon. That's about it for direct gameplay effects. Kitguns are powerful because they can equip arcanes, and they have good stats after guilding. Every weapon is poop without mods. EVERY weapon is poop without mods. Period. You won't notice the different between a 10% crit chance, and a 30% crit chance until you put on point strike. You won't notice the difference between a 10% and a 25% status chance in normal gameplay unless you stick on some status chance boosting mods like the 60/60 sets. Literally everything in the game is weak and pathetic without mods. If you need advice on how to fit more mods, and how to fit better mods, let us know. We can help with that. However, if you want to pretend that the game is bad because it's technical and you can't figure it out, you're better off playing simpler games.

Sounds like you've been so high MR for so long you don't even know what it does. Mod capacity is the most directly game effecting one sure (I'd say ranking up a weapon is meaningless if it popped out of the foundry with 30 capacity too. At that point there is no functional difference between rank 1 and rank 30. But imagine if your gun only had 6 capacity. Mod that.) but it isn't the only one. For one more than half the weapons in the market place require mastery rank to craft or use. Archwing launcher? Mastery gated. Heavy weapons? Mastery gated. Pets? Mastery gated. Pets that don't die as fast? Mastery gated. Main story quests? Mastery gated. Raising standing with every faction or syndicate in the game? Mastery gated. Heck there are nodes on every planet, including earth, that are mastery gated. Maybe you're a vet and all this was added later so you never noticed, but master rank effects EVERYTHING. So a weapon that actively prevents you from raising your mastery rank is a huge handicap for a new player. 

I get that arcanes are a bit boost. I get that gilding a kitgun makes it more powerful outright. I understand reactors and dumping forma into a weapon. I am fine with all that. But why put a weapon in a new player's path, encourage them make it "just to see how cool things get" and then TURN OFF their ability to level up while using it WITHOUT TELLING THEM? Kitguns should either A; not be craftable AT ALL until it is reasonable to gild them, or B; not require gilding to build MR. If it is something new players can get to be teased with the later phases of the game, then option B. If it is meant to be endgame and ONLY endgame; option A. Having this strange combination of the two is just plain bad design, and no amount of fanboy defense, indifference, or forum bullying is going to change that fact. It's literally game design 101; drop content where it is supposed to go, not just randomly wherever it will fit. Doing the latter is both lazy, and supremely incompetent.

[The process of gilding kitguns is is horribly, objectively flawed.]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Vodka_Vision_ said:

Have you considered that showing new players a taste of the super powerful stuff is a frequently used method in game design? Think about it, when you play other looter shooters, like Fallout 4 (yes, it's a looter shooter), they give you power armor and a minigun pretty early in the game.

Fallout 4 didn't actively prevent me from leveling up because I was in power armor. And it certainly didn't turn off exp gain and then NOT TELL ME it was doing so.

Also, I keep seeing people saying that kitguns are these ultra powerful things, but I'm not seeing it. Side by side they look more or less on par with a MR6 or MR7 sidearm. "Well you just need better mods and the right build!" Okay, but that begs the question; is it the kitgun that is so powerful, or is it your endgame build and warchest of maxed out mods? I'm beginning to think these are not as powerful as you guys think they are, and that maybe due to "spoiled by endgame mods" you don't actually know how one weapon stacks up to another WITHOUT those things. Seriously; go make an ungilded gaze (it'd take me about an hour, so you've no excuse) and compare it to that marketplace low MR laser thing WITHOUT YOUR PRECIOUS MODS; not that big of a difference.

Seriously; without a ton of super mods and a half dozen forma kitguns are not that impressive. So "you should have known by how powerful they are" is not a valid argument.

[The process of gilding kitguns is is horribly, objectively flawed.]

1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Stop. "My KiTgUn Is RaNk 30" doesn't mean anything. Most of the people on this thread could take a half ranked kitgun with the same parts, and put it next to yours and make yours look like a complete piece of crap. We have better mods than you, and a better understanding of how to come up with a powerful build.

I am beginning to get the impression that you, like many here, are violently allergic to context. The person I responded to specifically said he believed I was having trouble LEVELING the kitgun, this was obviously not the case. I realize for certain types of people reading can be difficult, but do try to keep up.

[The process of gilding kitguns is is horribly, objectively flawed.]

22 minutes ago, (PS4)Vodka_Vision_ said:

..just focus on finishing the main quests for now.

That's another thing...the game doesn't seem to actually HAVE a main guest line. There are quests, yes, and there is a story being told...sort of. But as far as a consistent narrative providing context for the experience and guiding new players through content? Nope. The "main quests" of this game just sort of pop up, unceremoniously, when you get to a specific planet, and then just go to sleep for a while. Three or four planets later they will wake up again and toss you a new objective, but even that isn't announced. Quests are buried in a sub-menu of your codex, and the only way to know you have one is to check. And they open up so far between it is easy to forget the game HAS quests at all. Its just "do this thing..okay, now leave me alone until you get to X planet in ten or twenty hours. You're on your own until then."

The more I think about it, and the more I research it and find this is exactly the case, it seems that "content" in this game is an afterthought; something patched in months or years after release to supplement the dull planetary mission structure. And that would be fine, except DE created this content from the perspective of someone who already had the full star map unlocked. Just "go here, then go here, then go here" based on what made narrative sense at the time, but that makes zero sense in terms of progression. But in practice, for a new player, its more like "go here, grind for ten hours, finally make it here, now backtrack, now grind for twenty hours, go here for one mission, then backtrack again, now to this mission on the world in between the last two steps because we forgot about it until now. Oh ignore all this, that's endgame, we just stuck it on a starting planet for no reason when narratively and via progression we could have just as easily stuck it literally anywhere else..."   

 

Edit: Seriously, why is Venus, a planet CLOSER to the sun, frozen? Why the hell isn't Fortuna on Neptune or something? Seriously DE; what the 'eff?

[The process of gilding kitguns is is horribly, objectively flawed.]

14 hours ago, (XB1)Dee Dubbalyoo said:

The OP's issue is that he hit a wall trying to level his kitgun due to the fact that he's trying to do it before having moved on from Venus.

Objectively false in literally every way. My kitgun is already rank 30, and at this point I'm more than halfway done exploring the star chart. My issue is the sudden, unexpected, and out of nowhere progression brick wall between leveling a kitgun, and GILDING a kitgun so you can level it again and get MR out of it. I've said before, but to sum up; from the perspective of a new player kitguns are presented as new player items that don't contribute to MR and can't be properly customized until endgame, with nothing in between and no warning this was the case. "Craft a kitgun. Realize you can't level with it and it's just taking up a slot, sell kitgun, craft another at endgame." It isn't a very well thought out progression cycle.

My issue isn't leveling a kitgun, or crafting one, or anything like that. My issue is the arbitrary and unnecessary barrier between crafting one and "completing one" that forces you to either hold onto a dead weight weapon for a hundred hours, or...frankly....get yelled at on the forums for not psychically figuring out that they are "supposed to be endgame" in spite of them coming in the form of a glorified tutorial that is shoved in your face less than five hours into the game.

Edit: And as to all the people saying I should have known based on how hard/expensive they are to make...they are neither of those things. The fishing spear is cheaper than the ones on Earth. The "best" mining laser in the game is literally half as much as the cheapest of three lasers on Earth. The blueprints cost half or less as much to buy. The material requirements are much less. Everything spawns right there outside of Fortuna so you don't have to go hunting for it. Heck, ore on Venus is worth roughly TEN TIMES the standing as those on earth, and are super plentiful. Mine for an hour or two have have enough unneeded ore to reach your daily standing limit for a week. Crafting a kitgun is literally easy. Heck, I'd say one of the cheapest and easiest things to do in the game, at least so far.

[The process of gilding kitguns is is horribly, objectively flawed.]

4 hours ago, Educated_Beast said:

You bring up good points.  It is hard for a new player.  If you are not planning on a rage quit, look me up.  I can help you out with credit in index easily.  

Wait until you get a log in credit booster, then look me up.  I'll carry you threw a few rounds of index and you'll have over a million credits in no time at all.  Then you can buy your way through Venus with ticker.  

It's been a while since I done bounties but it's 20% per match and there are 5 waves in higher bounties, so statically, you should get 1 per 5-wave bounty.  I forget if a resource booster helps here.  

Another option is killing big spiders which drops lots of resources but this is much harder and definately not new player friendly.  

Join a clan and get some help!

I was only lurking in hopes someone would be helpful, and you are, so I thought I'd pop in with an honest thank you. Thank you.

That said your numbers are a bit off. According to the wiki the odds of getting a bond are only 20% for the first step, with it dropping to 12.5% for steps two and three, and dropping again all the way down to 0% for steps four and five. So right there if the bounty has more than three steps there is no point in finishing it. Likewise the overall odds of getting at least one bond, per bounty, is around 40%, less than half. This might actually be pretty good on paper; gamers put up with dramatically lower drop rates all the time. But some of us are blessed by the "RNG Gods" and others cursed by them, and I've always been the latter. Case and point; I've been running five tier 3 bounties a night, for the last week. Know how many bonds I've gotten? One.

Bad luck, not the game's fault, I know. I just wish there was something other than this I could do. I hate grinding the same content over and over, and that's actually WHY I was attracted to Warframe. Saw a Noclip documentary about the game where one of the devs said it was a PvE focused game, not PvP ("You have my curiosity..."), and they know the only way to survive with that model is to constantly add new content ("You have my attention."). I just wish they'd said "grindy repetitive content that will take unreasonably long times to actually accomplish anything." Sort of a deal breaker when life and family obligations mean you'll never be anything beyond a "casual" player. 

[I am not a vending machine.]

2 minutes ago, Paradoxity said:

See, that whole 'Prices will drop" thing is what kinda gets at me. It's a more or less straight up admission that prices right now are inflated simply by being beholden to a crippled trading system.

...

The current system doesn't work 'just fine'- it's a bandaid solution that should have been replaced years ago. It relies on players sitting in their orbiter or dojo in lieu of playing missions- and using a third party site to try to manage trades. It's very easily manipulated- as is shown in your own examples above- relying entirely on a significant part of the playerbase simply not engaging with it in order to artificially inflate prices in game to benefit the traders.

THANK YOU!

[I am not a vending machine.]

1 minute ago, Kalsiam said:

Really ironic how your complaint was for DE to implement a system to fit YOUR(I can play the unnecessarily all capping word game too) needs.

"I want DE to implement an auction house so that I don't spend MY time twiddling MY thumbs." Sound familiar? And now you're bashing someone else who wants the game to fit their needs. What's worse is you try to mask it by justifying that meeting YOUR needs would benefit the game as a whole. Stop pretending to be a saint when you're just another random trying to get what he wants and couldn't give two Fs about what other people think.

The difference being that what I'm advocating would benefit most, if not all, players in the long term. Not only with greater trade security, but also make the game more new-player friendly and thereby preserve the population during content dry spells. Conversely unless you're planing to give a bunch of people free platinum, what you're advocating benefits only yourself. "The needs of the many..." and all that. You making ten percent more platinum today doesn't matter if the game dries up and dies from lack of new players tomorrow.

[I am not a vending machine.]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)Erudite Prime said:

  

How often does this happen to you? These all sound hypothetical. 

For my part of it, I'd say inevitable. Comcast is horrible and I've had as many as a dozen disconnects in a single day before. Usually two or three a week, randomly. As for others....look let me be clear here; I haven't actually tried to trade yet because I know it won't go well. Not only because it's asking too much of my limited time, but because of my own situation making me an unreliable trader to others, and I don't want to screw someone over and make them waste their time waiting on me. You can berate me for this if you like, but the fact of the matter is these issues can and will happen because of the nature of the system in place. This sort of thing WILL happen because there are absolutely no protections in place to prevent it. Maybe 99.9% of people will never have this problem. Maybe I never will. But that doesn't change the fact that without security you invite disaster, and I'm no fan of gambling.

[I am not a vending machine.]

4 minutes ago, (XB1)Erudite Prime said:

Can you explain again? What do you mean "wait around?" You make your post on the website, then play the game until you get a response. There's no waiting around with warframe.market. 

Except there is, by the nature of it still being an in-person trade system. Imagine this situation; I post what I am trying to unload and a price in trade chat, on the site, whatever, and go play the game. Seems good so far. I get a hit, someone wants to trade, perfect.

"Sure thing, just give me a minute to finish this mission real quick and I'll load in."
"Alright, I'll be there in a minute."

And then they never show up. Or they disconnect and can't contact me. Or they unexpectedly go AFK for an hour and a half. Or maybe it's on me; maybe there is something wrong with my daughter and I can't make it before they get upset and leave. Maybe my internet goes out (comcast is horrible). Or perhaps the dude gets there with half of the listed price and now wants to waste a half hour haggling, and then harasses me for the next hour on messages when I refuse his price. There are a million reasons why even a trade set up on that site or on chat will fall apart. And there are as many reasons why being forced to rely on an in-person trading system is a bad idea. Not the least of all, what I see in every game pre-trading post: "why isn't there secure trading? Someone might scam me!"

I'm sorry, okay? I'm not trying to say that this game isn't good. I'm not trying to say the community is wrong, and I'm not trying to downplay the worth of that site. And I'm certainly not saying that dumpster fire Fallout 76 is better outside of two or three very specific features that even that train wreak managed to pull off. But the simple fact of the matter is that not having a proper trading post will always be objectively inferior to having one. I don't care how much profit the high end traders are raking in from that deficiency.

[I am not a vending machine.]

Just now, (XB1)Erudite Prime said:

See, you're still just participating in arguments instead of addressing valid feedback to your topics. 

I haven't seen any valid feedback. Though maybe its just getting buried by the trolls. What I've seen is an endless stream of people jumping my ass for something I didn't say, and referring me to a website that I already said in the opening post I know exists, and consider to be a "community run band-aid" that does not in any way address the systemic issue of the game. I even went so far as to directly elaborate on that, referring to the need to wait around and hope that a scheduled trade using that site to show up would still cut into my limited playtime. That website does not matter. It does not work. It does not solve the problem. It is just a something the community uses because they don't have a better option. And ironically that's WHY they don't have a better option. Why add something basic like this in, if the community is fine with their band-aid and treats anyone who dares suggest otherwise like dirt?

[I am not a vending machine.]

4 minutes ago, Educated_Beast said:

I don't want an auction house.  I make a ton of plat listing my items / rivens on a couple player run websites.  Because a large portion of players are to lazy to list and to disorganized to handle many items, I benefit.  

Yes, I benefit from your laziness.  It ensures my items are listed at best possible prices.  If it was easy, everyone would do it and the price of everything would plummet.  That's bad for me.  

I never use trade chat but I can run out of trades as an MR28 as soon as I make my account listed.  An auction house would eat up useful server space, require programming, and destroy prices of items so it's not even worth bothering to trade. 

I'd rather DE just stick to making a good game, an auction house would screw up Warframe.

I find it interesting that you decided to go with "making a good game" when the very feature you're in opposition to would only serve to improve the game. Yet, you also admit that you're profiting off of the current flawed design, so at least you're honest in your dishonesty. You don't want them to make a good game, a good game has an auction house. You want them to make a game that's good for YOU. 

[I am not a vending machine.]

1 minute ago, DatDarkOne said:

/shrug

Don't post something in a thread I created and then act like I don't have the right to respond to it. If someone doesn't want to hear my opinion on a matter, why are they in my thread? They can kindly take themselves elsewhere.

[I am not a vending machine.]

2 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

It's called warframe.market

What you're describing, it's warframe.market

17 hours ago, (PS4)Ashmane84 said:

I know there is a website for trading with people, but that is a community run band-aid, and does not excuse poor design or missing features.

[I am not a vending machine.]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)Shodian said:

Just think of all the trade deals you could have done during the time you were complaining about it on the forums. 🤔

I'm at work. This is open in another tab.

I have, if I'm lucky, an average of two hours a night to actually sit down and PLAY a game. So I'd rather not waste that time standing around a hub either hoping someone starts a trade, or wondering why the dude that agreed to meet me here for a trade hasn't shown up yet. And even if I was, it doesn't change the fact that I shouldn't have to.

[I am not a vending machine.]

16 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

Funny from the guy crying and screaming at the thought of having to actually expend effort to make plat, and then throwing a crybaby temper tantrum when people dont agree with his bad ideas that have been addressed in other identical threads hundreds of times.

Effort? Where is the effort in standing around AFK in a hub playing on my phone and waiting for a message alert? No; I don't want to do this because it's not any effort; it's boring. I have better things to do with my time than stand around in a hub pretending to be a vending machine because Digital Extremes was too incompetent to implement a proper trading post.

[The process of gilding kitguns is is horribly, objectively flawed.]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

The top tier weapons arent available to them. They can look at them, yes. But they'll  see what is required to build them and say "ok I have some work to do, as I need these items to build these parts". 

At least that what I did. I kept going because I had other things to do in the meantime.

Apparently things have changed since your day, Boomer, because that's not how things work now. Kitguns aren't in any way hard to make, and the build requirements are ridiculously low. Seriously I didn't even use the wiki for guidance and I had my first Gaze in my hand, lasering grineer, in a day. ONE DAY. I went from not knowing kitguns existed, to using one, in ONE DAY. This is no work required to make these. No effort. Barely any time. In fact since mostly what you do is mine ore and fish making a kitgun is actually pretty zen. I went in at mastery rank four I think, and didn't have the slightest bit of trouble at all. Sailed right through making FIVE of them, had no issue ranking Fortuna up a few times, nothing at all led me to believe this was content above my level because I was able to easily do it at my level without assistance or guidance.

It wasn't until trying to get to rank three and gild them that all of this difficulty and grind that you seem to think I went through got dumped on me all at once, out of nowhere, apparently to make up for lost time. Again this is not an issue of obtaining a high level item, it is an issue of signposting. I'm not complaining that the roadblock exists, I'm complaining that it didn't show up sooner.

[I am not a vending machine.]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

If reading comprehension was YOUR strong suit you never would have made this indefensibly inane post. 

That looks painful, do you need to go sit on some ice?

[The process of gilding kitguns is is horribly, objectively flawed.]

11 hours ago, _Urakaze_ said:

I can also probably guess your frustration. You thought Penta, a grenade launcher, should do a lot of damage.

Actually no; my issue was it's info was poorly worded leading me to believe it functioned in a way it didn't. It says it's grenades explode on contact with an enemy, so I was thinking they would bound around, sit on the floor, and explode like a mine when something stepped on it. Not the case. Unless I score a direct hit I have to detonate them manually. Not only is this annoying, it means the weapon would be useless in the hands of a specter (I am assuming their AI isn't good enough to do that), and one of the things I wanted to do, as a solo player about half the time, was build up a "squad" of NPC versions of my own warframes with set builds and weapons to back me up when I go into a tough fight solo. But I am coming to realize that the specters aren't able to pull off anything close to that.

[The process of gilding kitguns is is horribly, objectively flawed.]

22 minutes ago, Krenlik said:

They are early game weapons that can be turned into late game weapons later after you have the ability to gild them.

 

If that is the case then they need to have their mastery experience lock reversed. What point is there in a weapon that doesn't build mastery exp until you don't need it? What point is there in a weapon that's mere existence prevents you from gaming it when you need it most? Literally every weapon in the game, save modular ones, build mastery experience the FIRST time you take them to thirty. Then they reset after you install a reactor or forma, and from then re-ranking them builds power, but not experience. Why are modular weapons reversed? Why is the first rank power but not experience, contrary to everything else in the game? It's little design contradictions like this that make me think Digital Extremes doesn't actually know what they are doing.

[I am not a vending machine.]

13 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

As to suffering, the game isn't suffering.

That is only true if you don't know how online games work. And to be fair, the vast majority of online game developers don't either. Neither does Digital Extremes, if that Noclip documentary is to be believed. You see simple quality of life features like this are make-or-break points for new players. People who hear good things, like a trailer, and come in fresh and don't have the time and monetary investment to fall into the sunk cost fallacy will see things like this, get frustrated, and then just walk away. I am on the verge of doing just that, again. (I installed Warframe over two years ago, played for a week, and then left until earlier this month when a friend started playing it.) And this lack of population growth will actually destroy the game long term.

You see contrary to popular gamer opinion "retention" is much less important than "growth" and just catering to the "hardcore" fans is only delaying the game's death, not stopping it. No matter how dedicated a fan is eventually they will stop playing. They will hit a lull, take a break, the new content update will pull them back but they won't go as deep as they used to. This will happen a few times, and one day they will be scrolling through their news feed, see the new update announced, and just keep scrolling. Eventually interest fades, life siphons off free time, and even the sunk cost fallacy looses its grip. The only way an online game can survive is off new players coming in to replace the old hats slowly leaving. Vets like to belittle noobs as if they are children, but that is exactly how you should think of them; children. Children are the future, and without a steady supply of new people no community will survive. So Digital Extremes focusing all their efforts on retaining existing players who already know everything, and don't care about the flaws, is only shooting themselves in the foot...very...very...slowly. 

In short, if this game doesn't readdress it's new player content, add some much needed quality of life, and fix a handful of extremely aggravating progression hiccups then it WILL die. And it already is doing so; its falling out of its top spot. The new update has been delayed. New players are already quitting (a third of my clan is already gone after less than a month). And of course, as always, regardless if anyone talks about it or even notices, every day another vet sees something on their news feed and just keeps scrolling.

[I am not a vending machine.]

Man reading comprehension is not you guy's strong suit. I at no point said Fallout 76 was an overall better game than Warframe. If you'll actually read my posts you'd see all I've done is badmouth it. In my opening post I refereed to it as both a "dumpster fire" and a "train wreak." I went on to mention bugs that have been confirmed unaddressed since beta, and compared it's server architecture to "two rusty tin cans tied together with old shoestring." In terms of overall quality there is no question that Warframe is easily a million times its superior.

...HOWEVER...

When you look at narrowly defined individual features in a vacuum, independent of the game itself on a case by cases bases you see that there is in fact a short list of very specific things Fallout 76 does better than Warframe. And no amount of intentional misunderstanding, fanboy indignation, or online bullying will alter the simple fact that Fallout 76: Has thing while Warframe: does not have thing. And thus in that very specific, yet not insignificant, context Fallout 76 is objectively superior to Warframe. And none of your excuses as to why the game doesn't or cannot have this feature will change that. And yes; it is nothing but excuses.

"You can't have a trading post because it's peer-to-peer!" Fallout 76
"You can't do it because we trade premium currency!" Guild Wars 2
"You can't do it because its a f2p game!" Literally every online game, f2p or not, ever made. Ever.

I don't care how much you want to defend them, Digital Extremes has no excuse. Zero. There is no reason why they can't do this, and a million ways they could. They just won't. And the game is and will suffer for it.