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(NSW)Greybones

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Posts posted by (NSW)Greybones

  1. Just now, RazerXPrime said:

    Yea the innate element is basically at the end. If you put two elements on a weapon you will combine those and the innate one will remain a single element unless you combine it into something as well. So you could add toxin + heat + cold on it in that order and then you would have gas + cold on the IW.

    Cool cool. Had a brainfart, thanks for correcting me 👍 

    • Like 2
  2. 3 minutes ago, RazerXPrime said:

    toxin and cold on the IW forms viral + heat. Not Gas + cold. that's not how modding works.

    What? Don’t mod elements combine with innate elements on elemental weapons?

     🤔 Oh wait, or was it elemental weapons element gets added at the end. I couldn’t remember how it worked

    Right right, that makes a lot more sense

  3. 2 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

    If you can call it a 'build', it's Serration (Amalgam in my case, I like the extra Sprint Speed), Malignant Force, Rime Rounds Point Strike, Vital Sense, Vigilante Armaments. The last could probably be switched out for any other set mod, not sure if that'd improve the overall performance or not. It's not like this is optimised or something.

    To be clear, the Ignis Wraith is not fun past the initial 'whee, flamethrower' honeymoon phase. It's the most 'hold down the trigger and watch the fireworks' weapon in the game. And the fireworks aren't even that good

    Huh. Sounds like an innately powerful weapon. You were fighting Steel Path Grineer with a gas and cold weapon?

  4. 3 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

    What are you waiting for?

    Waiting for @Loza03 to share the build, assuming they’re so inclined

    edit: I’m not sure what the question is? Alternatively I’m waiting for a chance to get hold of one

  5. 1 hour ago, Loza03 said:

    So remember when I said that the weapon can kill most anything outside of the Steel Path with 0 forma and not even a full build. I did some more testing, and as it turns out, a 0-forma, no rivens, no galvanised mods, no arcanes, not even any Warframe damage buffs is still outputting enough damage to comfortably kill even at Steel Path Sedna, and even do so without over-worrying about ammo costs. Granted, it loses pace at acolytes and heavies, but it can still kill the latter easily enough, and it's not doing too badly for ammunition.

    Out of curiosity, what was the build? I don't have an Ignis Wraith myself, so I can't test for myself and see how it fares

  6. 23 minutes ago, OmegaVoid said:

    Please don't mistake me for someone with skills 🤣 I use lots of different 'frames 'cos I'd get bored with maining just one, but I wouldn't say I've mastered any of them.

    The subject of this thread just reduces to running around killing as many things as possible, and if you're in a 'frame which can cast anything that helps with that, so much the better.

    Man I ain’t care about M4d sKi1lz. I’m just glad that someone doesn’t feel shoehorned into a specific frame for a specific mission. I’m similar; I much prefer mixing it up, and it’s nice to hear when someone else isn’t always going for The Best Tool To Grind With (I’ll take the one that’s the funnest to use, thanks).

    Regarding Frost’s bubble, yeah, it can be shredded kind of easily if not set up right (such as when it’s quiet all around), and SP can chew through it real fast. Standard game is fine though, which is 1.) where most of the game is, and 2.) I can use a whole lot more of my options outside of a handful of stupidly-powerful builds that I’d take into SP if I was curious about how they’d do. Sometimes it’s nice to have an on-hand defensive thing instead of having to rely on kill-before-they-kill (which can be tough sometimes) or building up innate weaknesses of a not-so-defensive-frame

  7. 49 minutes ago, Grav_Starstrider said:

    I think a lot of things with Yareli are able to be pointed out as subjectively worse than tons of equivalent things. Her 1 is objectively worse than condemn or spellbind because instead of moddable AoE you're stuck with only affecting 5 enemies per cast, making it more costly per enemies larger in quantity than 5, and also having pitiful damage and no other fringe utilities like the shield restore or status immunities. Her Merulina is objectively less precise in handling, especially vertically with the lack of aim glides and less extreme barrel rolls. The damage mitigation is objectively less than many other damage-mitigation-centric abilities (her, what was it, 80% compared with 90%-100% DR with things like warding Halo, Mesmer, iron skin, shatter shield, electric shield, splinter Storm, etc). It also locks you out of using Helminth infusions, primary, and melee combat. Her 3 is so-so but really fails to mesh with her kit, as it demands close sustained contact with the enemy rather than hit and run tactics encouraged by her low DR and mobility, it could really do with the damage being more front-loaded as has been previously discussed. Her Riptide though is pitiful. Yeah it has "scaling damage" but only based on enemy quantity. It's basically a more expensive Larva but without the ability to shoot things while they're gathered together, and without a side benefit like the stacks Nidus gains. It's like a zero duration Vortex. The abilities are OBJECTIVELY worse than the majority of their peers.

    This is subjectively a problem, and even then I don’t know what you’re talking about regarding Aquablades because hit-and-run is exactly what I use that damage aura for, since it makes it a lot safer to get some melee hits in before I have to inevitably jump away. Not every frame is going to be a home run for the playerbase, but can she be fun? I’d say so! I’m not someone who got glued into Archwing though, so I know how to k-drive and not try and boost through all the time or fit through weird geometry that’s guaranteed to cause issues.

    The importance ascribed to bringing Yareli up to her peers is equal to the importance of deciding whether to use her or not. If I felt like playing Nidus, I’d play Nidus. If I felt like playing Nezha, I’d play Nezha. I’m not looking for an equal, I’m looking for a difference, and Yareli with Merulina is different. Just talking about her makes me want to flow through the levels once more and continue putting her to the test to see how she fares in her current iteration, because so far she’s been a success at fighting, yet it’s being treated like it’s objectively crucial for Yareli to be adjusted further instead of just, you know, not being a frame that everyone is going to enjoy.

    I don’t even know what perspective you’re coming from regarding comparing abilities. How easy is Star Chart for you (not going to bother with the optional mode of Steel Path for now)? Because that’s going to affect the validity of some abilities over others, and if you’re trying to be objective, then objectively there will be players who don’t have access to what you have or do not build like you do, and will potentially be seeing a different Yareli or other frame being compared to her.

  8. 3 hours ago, Cenyn said:

    Broadly speaking, it's rare for the defense target to take a lot of damage because we kill everything so fast. A nuke mirage is an excellent lower level defense frame as she can spawn kill enemies. I presume @Lutesquewas referring to this paradigm, which frost can only weakly contribute to.

    I’m just…. so over this paradigm. It’s a paradigm that says things are Useless, that says Warframe is an easy game, that uses terms like Mastery Fodder and compares one piece of equipment to another with no regard to how a certain thing stands on its own merit, no, it must be efficient.

    It’s a paradigm that got so heavily ingrained in some players that when Steel Path came and kicked their once-overpowered build down a notch or two, they go “Oh my, the game’s challenging again, this must be the Hard Mode that I’ve been searching for in my thousands of hours of self-inflicted cookie clicker grind”. They equipped overpowered builds and then got bored and wanted the game to meet them instead of, you know, not using the nuke build that destroys things by player design and simplifies the game by player design because that was what the player wanted. And Steel Path is broken! This is not a secret! But what better measuring system to use then the one game mode that forced players to die? So anything that doesn’t meet the SP standard gets shat on.

    It’s a paradigm that says Warframe is innately a horde shooter instead of large amounts of enemies being the result of spawns just matching our rate of killing, and it’s a paradigm that says the game is the grind because what else is there to do when we’re “supposed” to simplify the game until there’s only the reward left?

    I can respect that players have fun with the overpowered nature and huge variety of build options, but then some players go a step too far and say that this is what Warframe is and what it should be. To the point that something like Yareli drops and people are like “WTF, DE? You don’t even play your own game! If only you understood the trials and tribulations of the veteran player, you‘d understand what would make us happy!” while those same players are probably falling asleep while grinding and complaining that the game’s too easy

    edit: Was reminded of another consequence of this paradigm; some players want self damage to make a return because otherwise, they’re just so powerful that the only thing that can give them a sense of skill-check is not blowing themselves up. I get that it’s a pain to see some players running around destroying everything in multiplayer for the sake of grinding fast (hello again, paradigm), stealing kills and making an already-boring mission even more boring, but there’s also this idea that self-damage is a better way to indicate capacity to play well, which is absolutely questionable when the current stagger can be deadly if the player can’t just face-tank everything.

    Grr. Rant is probably over for now

    • Like 2
  9. 1 hour ago, Cenyn said:

    Broadly speaking, it's rare for the defense target to take a lot of damage because we kill everything so fast. A nuke mirage is an excellent lower level defense frame as she can spawn kill enemies. I presume @Lutesquewas referring to this paradigm, which frost can only weakly contribute to.

    Ah yeah, I can see that. When we can overkill everything super easily, Frost and his bubble can only do so much. As is the case with many things, Warframes or weapons, there’s just no substitute for massive amounts of death at the hands of overtuned equipment.

    In situations where overkilling isn’t a thing, Frost shines a little more the closer we get to the actual fight, and requires less making up for shortcomings to get a decent defensive frame out of him. But according to common wisdom, those situations are meant to diminish the more we progress in the game and get the chance to make overkill builds, so certain Frames are meant to not be used

  10. 3 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

    Thank you for taking the time to share your experience and preferences for Yareli secondaries.  I mean no disrespect when I say that I think we prefer very different things from this game.  I appreciate you sharing your recommendations.

    Feels…. weird to have someone thank me for what I’ve said.

    But I can appreciate the appeal of wanting to learn how others play out of mere curiosity, and I’m glad I could help. I can respect that we get different enjoyment out of the same game as well. 🤔 Maybe in the future I’ll be asking about your approach to something out of curiosity

    • Like 2
  11. 1 hour ago, sunderthefirmament said:

    I see two ways forward for Merulina:

    • add more mobility controls and improve handling, like the bullet jump/dodge roll they've already added
    • add an alternate form for Merulina, like a sentinel or a summon, that still provides some benefits without removing our arsenal and mobility

    If I may, what secondary do you prefer to use with Yareli?  I haven't found one that feels good with her yet.  I'd wager you have more playtime on her than I do, and I'm curious about your opinion/recommendation.

    Talking to any veteran who knows how to fix the game requires a mindset I’m not in at the moment, so the best I can do for this conversation is say what I’ve enjoyed using as a secondary.

    I haven’t tried all that many different secondaries as I gravitate to a few naturally. The Lex/Lex Prime have been fun ones to use, where the bonus crit from Yareli’s passive means I can focus less on crit mods and more on other mods, and ADSing for headshots is really flowey while riding because there’s so much movement, instead of slowing down to a crawl. And the Bronco/Bronco Prime is fun to get up into someone’s face combined with Aqua Blades, which can do enough damage to kill weeny enemies nearby while I blagh the tougher target with the gun. Atomos is kind of neat to float around the combat cluster and sort of hose down enemies

    Someone recommended some ridiculously powerful crit-based Sporelacer, so that might be worth a try. Haven’t tried it myself, but it sounds like it’d carry the mission

    • Like 1
  12. 12 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

    Eh, I agree with you that some frames don't need to be room-clearing nukers.  In fact, my favorite frames aren't.

     

    Look at Nezha.  He's a better Yareli in every way.  He is not a nuker that's going to just use his abilities to clear a room or map, at least not above star chart (like Yareli).  Instead, he relies on his very powerful abilities for utility and support.  Just like Yareli, he's got a tanking ability, except his also provides status immunity, has an invulnerability period where it can absorb damage (scaling), and doesn't strip him of 2/3 of his arsenal while also crippling his mobility.  Speaking of mobility, his passive gives him weird mobility, kind of like how Yareli has weird mobility through Merulina, except Nezha's is infinitely more useful in your average tileset.  Nezha has better CC than Yareli too, as he can shoot enemies during his 4 and Yareli can't.  Yareli's 1 is also CC, but it's bad because it fizzles out uselessly on walls pretty frequently.  Nezha's CC goes through walls.  Nezha also has a damaging ability that is useful for killing enemies behind him.  His 1 is better than Yareli's 3 in most situations.  And beyond this, Nezha also has debuff potential and further mobility/utility through his 2.  The only thing Yareli can do that Nezha can't is group enemies up.  But Yareli can't even take advantage of this, because she's locked into a casting animation (and maybe moving, if she's on her 2) and her 4 then just spits enemies all over the place uselessly.

     

    I'm not asking for Yareli to be the next Saryn, Mesa, or Xaku.  I'm asking for her to have a functional design for most tilesets.  I'm asking for her to have scaling in her abilities, scaling that is present in other frames with tanking powers (the damage absorption period).  I'm asking for her not to be immediately irrelevant upon release.

     

    A new frame does not need to be the best at something.  But it shouldn't be immediately outclassed by other offerings as blatantly as Yareli was.  I have a post about this, if you care to read it.  If you like her, cool.  But I can't enjoy her in her current state, and I'm hoping for further changes.

    😐 You know what? Your enjoyment of Yareli is so tarnished by the fact that another frame does what she can do differently and apparently better, that I am actually willing to not care if they turned Yareli into a better Nezha. Or an almost-as-good Nezha. Long as they keep the k-drive because that’s a thing I really enjoy floating around on and having really agile ADSing while casting abilities on the move (Merulina is surprisingly strong so far). 

  13. Some of the suggestions are being made based off of an expectation that a player wants to play an easy game. Warframe lets you do that eventually if you want, so if that’s your gig then more power to you.

    If you’re not interested in that though, take some things said with a grain of salt; there are other ways to have a fight if overpowering everything gets boring, and learning resistances is a contributing factor to keeping a fight interesting.

    Resistances are good because once you learn them, it means you can bring a set of weapons and not have to worry about making one weapon do a hard carry by overpowering innate damage resistances. Usually I equip different elements across my three weapons to help address different enemy resistances within the mission. If you use the scanner and look at enemies, you’ll also notice that there’s a readout that can help remind what enemy is weak to what element/IPS

    edit: as an aside, personally I don’t bother with Serration or Hornet Strike or Pressure Point except as a last resort; playing towards resistances can be a lot more fun since the status effects can act like micro modifiers to a fight, and I pay more attention when I don’t have a one-weapon-suits-all

    • Like 1
  14. 1 hour ago, sunderthefirmament said:

    It's not just personal preference though.  Yareli doesn't match up with the standard DE has set for modern warframes at all.  Her kit feels like it came out 6 years ago.  There's no meaningful scaling, nor are there any engaging synergies.  She was built for a game where sorties didn't even exist yet, to say nothing of Arbitrations, liches, sisters, or Steel Path.  I just don't understand how DE could hear player feedback on old blast procs and how annoying it was to ragdoll enemies... then turn around in give us Yareli's 4.

     

    DE messed up with Yareli, and although the dodge roll/bullet jump update helped Merulina, it's not enough.

    I was recently talking to someone about a Hydroid update they’d proposed. Their idea was pretty powerful because they wanted Hydroid to be able to completely rely on his ability set to get through a mission.

    That’s a perspective that I’m beginning to get sense of regarding when players talk about Yareli. That she should be able to get through a mission completely via her abilities. As if this is a thing that is expected of Warframe, instead of a Warframe’s abilities augmenting a fight and being utilised in an interplay between weapon and Warframe. A player gets their hands all over a frame and builds so that abilities do the hardest of carries in a fight, simplifying the actual combat to a few ability button presses.

    If this is the case, that a Warframe should be able to completely rely on abilities, then screw that noise. As if the game should be so simple. Just because you veterans and your thousand hours of ability-based grind are playing a Warframe that’s basically a prettier cookie clicker, don’t expect new things to innately contribute to such a style.

    Maybe she’s not a nuker with “synergies”, but do you know where Yareli is fine? In an actual fight, where her abilities can be used to their fullest alongside the weapons that I broughtI’m perfectly fine with that, and since you lot aren’t, that means there is no “we” as far as I’m concerned

  15. 🤔 Personally I like seeing weird ideas from DE. When the playerbase tells them what their own game is and asks for equipment to deal with “A horde shooter”, I’m not surprised at the prevalence of easy AoE options on new weapons (which is kind of weird since they don’t listen to us).

    To be honest though, much as I’d like to see additional interesting weapons from DE, what I’d really like is weird and odd mods and Arcanes to play with. More Exilus, please! And mods that augment a specific weapon or mechanic that I can equip when I don’t need so much power.

    Aside from that, if DE make more non-AoE weapons or weapons with weird, situational, and less-effective-than-standard AoE attacks, more power to them

  16. 23 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

    I think you and I have completely different definitions of "PvE games". I'm including everything from Warframe to Super Mario, so yes I very much think Steel Path is all gear and no skill

    I’d agree with this. It was basically introduced as a mode to test our gear anyways, so as far as I’m concerned, it’s doing what it’s meant to

    • Like 1
  17. 8 minutes ago, (PSN)Reaper330011 said:

    See this is why I tried to make it work.

    right now hydroid’ abilities are bad so I want them to be BETTER.

    you could just not do all of this and use weapons, but where’s the fun in that?

    This idea is just to try make hydroid more useful so he doesn’t have to rely on weapons (well, maybe the basmu because healing).

    I get that this is the sort of thing players would love, but there is a Warframe [game] that requires intermingling of abilities and weapons. Usually, bringing a Warframe who can simply mission-complete by itself is a sure indicator of a hard carry by a single piece of equipment when someone can say to themselves "Not really relying on anything else in my loadout, they're mostly just options if I feel like using them". If Hydroid is innately capable of mission completing by himself, without any bonuses or buffs, then that's kind of heavily skewing the interplay of weapon and Warframe towards the Warframe.

    Again, I get that that's what players will love and probably experience constantly by building for it, but it is worth considering that disrupting that balance will simplify the game. Most players are already playing a simple game by choice, but this would make it no longer a choice, but a guarantee

  18. 6 minutes ago, (PSN)Reaper330011 said:

     

     

    Different abilities for different situations.

    For a Defense mission you’d probably use his 4 because it eliminates the enemies faster. 
    For a capture mission you’d probably use his second because you can carry the enemy to an area where you can easily take them down without being disturbed by the rest.

    for a rescue mission you’d use his first or four because it lays down convering fire to scatter and crowd control the enemies (and will mass slaughter everything with four).

    for interception you’d use his 3 because enemies can’t escape puddle mode and if they reach a console just drag them in with a tentacle. 
    for volatile you’d use his 3 to drown the engineers  before they can sabotage the mission.

    for survival you’d probably use all to be honest…

     

    you get what I mean?

    Ah, okay I think I see what you mean. Mostly a different situation is a different mission, not a different situation within a mission (like when surrounded vs when approaching from one side, or when in a hallway vs when in an open area). So sort of like building for the Grineer, Infested, or Corpus; build for the entire faction instead of different types of enemies within the faction.

    Build for the mission. I see now, yeah

    6 minutes ago, (PSN)Reaper330011 said:

    but for example. By synergy I mean,

    1. Use fourth ability.

    2. Use first ability to lay down crowd control and additional damage around the map.

    3. Use undertow. 
     

    4. Tidal wave into enemies that are out of reach of the tentacles and first ability.

    5. Tidal wave back into a large area of tentacles.

    if they aren’t dead already, exit puddle mode so the tentacles do the job, or go toward the kraken so it can eat them.

    Hm. Okay, I think I see. Where do our weapons come into play? This sounds like this is mostly relying on Hydroid's abilities to make it through the mission

  19. 1 minute ago, (PSN)Reaper330011 said:

    The fourth ability doesn’t affect capture targets. Maybe make the second ability affect them? I mean we all usually use 1 or 2 abilities repeatedly on every frame…. Maybe to solve this increase the energy costs for the 4th ability….

    the thing is they already synergise with each other so to reach the kits full potential you need to utilise. Every single ability.

    Hm. So if I were to use this frame at core power to find out how it's meant to work before I get my hands all over adjusting strength or tweaking duration or whatever, there'd be little difference between the abilities?

    If one or two abilities will see me through, what's the incentive to synergise and reach the kit's full potential?

  20. Just now, (PSN)Reaper330011 said:

    That includes me. 

     

    Not me. 
     

    I just want hydroid to be slightly more efficient, less clunky, more fun.

     

    👍

     

    🤔 I do wonder though. Is there a chance that I would only be using one ability repeatedly? These look pretty powerful, but let's pretend I can't be bothered choosing between them if most of the time one ability will suffice for much of the content I'll be doing

  21. Just now, (PSN)Reaper330011 said:

    Yes….. just had trouble understanding what you were saying there….

    Oh. Hmm... let's see...

    I was saying that players who want a better choice than their current Warframe (like Mesa or whatever) will probably enjoy this rework. And players who think it's important for Hydroid to easily fight through Steel Path better than a different frame will enjoy this extra power

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