WolvenEdge
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Posts posted by WolvenEdge
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I like where you're going with this, but I do have a few critiques.
I; coverage.
I posted some stat suggestions in another forum page, but I'll copy them over just to show my logic here as well;
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Where's the other thread?
Ah well. I'll just rework the logic, without the actual numbers.
Sword and board will be the best at blocking, unless they introduce a weaponized shield that has no sword at all. When blocking; shield wins, no surprise. It would be capable of blocking fire from several opponents before having its threshold passed, and would have a minimal decay in defensive efficiency. So, something along the lines of 5/1%. So you can block five enemies' fire without breaking a sweat with sword&board, and more enemies will not bother you too much.
A dagger doesn't have much length, so coverage would kind of suck. You'd be able to easily block one enemy's firing line, but more than that would cause you to have to speed your motion up something fierce... but that's something Tenno can do, and the dagger is light enough for this to make some sense, therefore, something along the lines of 1/2%. One enemy? No problem! More enemies? Meh. You won't take much damage from more enemies because the weapon is light enough to move swiftly and change direction quickly, allowing you, at slightly reduced efficiency, to still block the incoming fire.
A greatsword... well, it's bigger. It has the length and capacity for half-swording (a blocking animation I really, REALLY want to see, by the way) that would enable it to be moved in a way that would allow blocking multiple opponents' fire, to an extent. But the downside; it's bloody heavy. Sure, a Tenno is capable of twirling it around easily enough, but as for changing direction and forcing it to move quickly, your own weapon would become a disadvantage as to the stress of overcoming its momentum. You can do it, but it will damage you a bit too, essentially cracking your own bones from the force of your movement. Having 50-cal rounds bouncing off the blade at the same time isn't going to help the issue, ouch. So, say, 3/8%. Three enemies' fire can be blocked with effort, but any more, and the damage starts racking up, though it's still better than trying to use a greathammer. >w>
That kind of logic would not be all that hard to apply, and would even work with the current processing ability that blocking uses, and not cause undue lag in lower-end systems.
II; Melee noise
Oog.... ouch. I can see where you're coming from, but would suggest making it the player's fault should the weapon make noise. >:3 One is entirely capable of using a greatsword stealthily and silently, if one is careful with it. Stealth kills should always be silent... and melee going through its intended target silently would echo the Tenno's philosophies and training quite well... however, larger weapons are still a bit, well, clumsier than small ones. Harder to control. Having a weapon glide through an enemy silently is no problem, that was the intended target and would naturally come under Tenno training... but the wall to your left that you accidentally nicked in the backswing? Ooh yeah, that's gonna make some noise. If you're attacking walls, you're going to attract enemy notice. This would be both a boon and a curse, as you could, say, use a dagger against a pipe to attract an enemy's attention, then step into the shadows and execute the hapless trooper that came to investigate the strange noise, while trying to spin carelessly down the hallway with your Gram would definitely attract some attention, because you're being stupid from a stealth standpoint.
TL;DR, hit enemy should be silent, hit wall make noise. :P
III; Punishing finishers.
I like, but that would require even MORE work on Excalibur, Ash, and Loki, as they're capable of forcing enemies into vulnerable states. I get that it's their design, but that would become a bit overpowered in certain circumstances. I do get the perspective of risk vs. reward, and the stealth multiplier should be higher... actually, scrap what I was going to say, I have a better idea.
How about we separate 'stunned/opened' status from 'Y I NO C U?' status? Keep roughly the same current multiplier for stunned enemies, and have actual stealth finishers be always lethal as in the OP. That way, Excalibur is still balanced, Loki and Ash can still do their thing, and stealth would open up a little further as a viable play option, which it honestly hasn't been for a while. It's doable, sort of... so long as you never encounter a Drahk, or a Nullifier, or a sniper of any kind, or stay still for more than thirty secons, or.... yeah. We need a stealth 2.0, and this should be part of it. Anyone care to open a thread on the matter?
IV (1B); coverage while swinging melee
Hmm. Tough one. Gives me a Lego Star Wars vibe, which I do like, but... that's ... hmm. I can't really put this lightly.
Dark souls_____WarFrame____________________________________________Lego Star Wars
On the difficulty/punishment scale, WarFrame has a tendancy to be pretty harsh when you do something dumb. Like trying to last two hours in T4 Survival by yourself. Yeah, EVERYTHING can one-shot you by then, and if you're surviving, you're either cheesing, cheating, or both. :P Lego Star Wars was made the opposite of punishing. It's made for little ones to enjoy for the gameplay, and older fans of the series to enjoy for the comedy, therefore the comedy contains both whimsy and slight adult references, and the gameplay is designed to be painfully easy unless you're a completionist. I get where you're coming from, I really do, but this would make melee mode TOO easy, at least from where I'm sitting. We can block bullets with swords, yes, but having a bullet aimed at my head be deflected by me swinging at some poor schmuck's feet with my greatsword? Rather immersion breaking, sorry. XwX
However, I would even endorse the idea of a % of the damage of the target you are currently aiming at was blocked when you're attacking, as that would fit the Tenno's training concepts, (and the concepts of many martial arts in the idea of attack and defense in the same motion) and enable melee mode a bit more in an open setting. That nut shooting at you? Aim at him while running, it will help if he shoots at you. It's the equivalent of a 'soft lock' I suppose, and would enable, in some ways, defense to an extent against one enemy and an attack against another. Might be too much to keep track of for some players, and even leave a fair portion of it up to luck (but no RNG! Huzzah!), but it would still be doable. Advanced players would be able to take advantage of it, and earlier/
less obsessednot as hardcore players wouldn't have their gameplay change in any meaningful way.V (2B); No melee roll, replace with dash
Uh.... I see where you're going with this, but would like to stop you there. We already have a 'dash' of sorts, the bullet jump. With practice, you can bullet jump horizontally (I rather like doing so, it enables me to swing past enemies with my greatsword and leave lots of meaty bits falling around) and transition into aerial attack. Once mastered, it's quite smooth, and deals a fair portion of damage upon any foe, many weapons even hit twice or three times in this animation (see daggers, polearms). I can see where you want to go with this, and allow me to point something out that would allow for something of what you're thinking even without depriving melee users of the entirely useful roll.
First; a couple notes on the roll in its current state. Since the parkour release, rolling has changed a little bit. It now covers about half again the distance it used to, and can be used for swift acceleration. It also does not decelerate a Tenno who uses it to transition from flying from wall to wall or out of a bullet jump. You can even use it to pick up some impressive speed (even without any parkour augment mods) by roll->slide->bulletJump->roll->bulletJump->roll->bulletJump.
That speed happens to be a number in WarFrame's code. >:3 What say we take advantage of that, shall we? Rolling builds up a bit of speed all on its own, which would make it quite viable to have its own attack animations, ergo; a roll-attack. This might seem a bit Dark Souls-esque to some of you, but hear me out. What say we take that lovely number that equates to the speed we are moving, and through a little bit of mathematical magic turn that into a multiplier for damage dealt with the roll attack, similar to the video clip on the entrance to the Balor Fomorian, where the Tenno hurtles off the Archwing, flips and rolls a few times and then lands weapons-ready... but let's change that a bit. He's using a Nikana, so, how about he transfers that momentum into actual attack power? He flips once, hurtling toward his unfortunate foe, rolls, uses the sheath as a springboard and spins sideways in the air with the blade held outward, gracefully landing two vertical slashes against the hapless trooper, leaving only shreds of meat and scrap metal behind.
Transferring momentum into damage could even be used in other animations as well, and would add to the effectiveness of melee, helping to bridge the gap between melee damage and primary weapon damage, and further integrating parkour into the game, especially for melee players. You'd be able to roll and then attack, dealing a little more than a standard attack, but still having the effect of closing on a foe quickly and tearing them a new one. Or you could, say, from further away, jump off a zipline, bullet jump downwars (yes, that's a thing you can do. You can have the bullet jump be the second jump of your two), roll out of a high-speed dive and unleash a powerful speed-enforced blow. ^w^ Would certainly take some practice, but is entirely doable.
VI (3b); Return of the Charge Attack
Yes, YES! All of my yes. this has been needed for a while. ^w^ This would, however, require the rework of several stances, as the 'hold x' combo would no longer be capable of use. I would suggest that many of the animations currently available are entirely useable as charge attacks, even from the middle of a combo, and would act as both a combo interrupt and a method of taking advantage of stuns in the combos themselves, granting more options, along the lines of the musical rhythm-based combos in El Shaddai; Ascension of the Metatron. Each stance should have its own charge attack, as an example of this, for those of us who have Tempo Royale, the 'hold backwards attack' combo, where you sort of hover for a bit and then smash everything would be absolutely perfect to move to the charge attack, and have the 'hold X' combo replace it. Just a little bit of moving around, maybe one or two new animations, that's it. ^w^ Entirely doable, and would add another dimension to combat that doesn't intrude on any other mechanic or control, allowing you to chain heavy and light attacks back and forth easily. Perfect for the oddly-abrupt-yet-flowing movements the Tenno stances already display.
And yes, this would be 'recycling animations'. I don't see what the problem with this is at all, other than that many seem oddly opposed to it. It's efficient, doesn't waste work, and, even if it's just a placeholder, gets the concept out there so that it can be used by the players and tested/critiqued. Hek, sometimes the placeholder is even better than the intended full version, and just gets tweaked a little bit. I'm rather tired of hearing accusations of 'lazy' from people who neither animate nor code. >:\ You have to input code for every frame. @w@ EVERY FRAME. You have to rig, animate, tag, and code every single frame, often individually. A good animation for a single actor that lasts two minutes can take weeks to make, much less integrate into a game. You have to take into account physics, the biology of...
And at this point, the young wolf went into a long diatribe about animating and programming, that no-one would understand anyway, and would take up much room in a post that was already longer than some legal documents. I really don't see where he gets the energy. He's reall--
Shut up, Narrator, I'm getting tired of this. D:< You had your way with my characters and ideas in the Stanley Parable, and though I liked the adventure line, you really, really need to--
Oh shut up yourself. This is likely going to be lost on the audience anyway, could you just ca--
Calm down. Yes. -w- Can you just... leave? Please? You already know what I'm doing.
Yes, attempting to reward readers for making it this far with a bit of metaposting humor. It's really a rather sad attempt, much like your sojourn in the broom closet.
That broom closet had a lot of interesting stuff. =w= Pardon me, I think you get my points.
Your ideas are great, just in need of a bit of refinement and some brainstorming on how to get them into the game without causing too many ripples. We're after buffing/balancing and adding mechanics in the game that make more playstyles viable, not less. In the case of damage reduction via percent, this actually both validates a new playstyle and adds in a new one, both based around blocking. The first is based on a relatively popular build for high-armor frames that have health problems or low shields; life strike/Rage. Imagine mixing this with Reflection, and a couple mods that would enable you to take advantage of the fact that you're still eating damage through your guard? You'd be eating their health, restoring your own, and generating the energy to do this all in one fell swoop via channel-blocking. It would be like a Jedi Guardian fully trained in the defensive style of Soresu; nothing would get through, and your opponents would only be hurting themselves trying to attack you. ^w^ The second is the Towar, or Bulwark, turning blocking into an art, becoming nigh-untouchable force on the battlefield, opening his guard only long enough to unleash potent attacks. This could be accomplished with a pair of mods that would naturally be introduced in this, and the Counter mod. Enabling you to just plant your feet, block all incoming damage, and just punish that one that gets too close, big time.
I've gushed enough on this, I really like the ideas. I hope I've added some valuable feedback, and maybe a few laughs. Sorry for the wall o' text. XwX
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Haven't had that problem, sorry... I keep having it cut out entirely. Hoping to get DE's attention with this thread;
Would appreciate any help. This and other melee issues are really messing up a lot of players.
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Thats just a Theory some people believe in, but ask yourself this: If we are energy, how and why can we bleed?
Have you considered that the warframe itself is a living organism yet? This has been answered dozens of times. Along with such drivel as 'energy can't smile' or 'energy doesn't need to breathe'. If you're going to critique a theory, pay attention to the theory you're critiquing.
That is a theory that came from the bottom of Vor's a**crack during an event.... forgot the name, the one that unlocked Phobos.
This theory was around a fair ways before that, mostly based on Dark Sector, the Infested, and hints left lying around, up to and including the confirmed fact that there is one Tenno who inhabits many WarFrames, even BEFORE Ordis outright TOLD YOU. Vor, however, gave strong allusions to the possibility of this theory in two places; part of the intro sequence;
"No, we've been looking at this all wrong. The Tenno do not use the energy, the Tenno ARE the energy. The Warframe serves only to focus that divine light."
his transformation via the Janus key and the Void into something that is suspiciously similar to a Tenno, and his exit statements;
"See? They cut me in half. But this death, it is temporary, for I am energy, and can never be destroyed."
Further pointing in roughly that direction are the notes on the Zariman in several codex entries, but aside from the Zariman the biggest one is in Excalibur's own entry, referencing the status of the Tenno before and after;
"We took the twisted few that returned from [the hellspace where our reason failed us] and built a frame around them, a conduit of their affliction... Excalibur was the first."
On top of that, we have the general shape of Excalibur himself. Give him a look over and compare him to the Infested we know and hte Infected in Dark Sector. He has, quite literally, weld marks and sealed holes and energy vents along his back and sides, quite similar to the Infested Ancients and the advanced Infected (including Hayden Tenno) in Dark Sector.
So go chew on your dismissive attitude somewhere else, please?
As for the OP; in the theory mentioned above, there is the possibility that we DO see a Tenno outside their WarFrame, albeit in a destabilized and incoherent state, quite literally in shock from JUST DYING. Conclave; the Oro.
Outside of that, there is the 'brain in a jar' theory, in which case seeing a Tenno outside their WarFrame is likely not to be very pretty.
As for an enemy that can permanently remove important items such as weapons and warframes from your inventory... no, no, a thousand times no. People complain profusely about having their weapons disarmed in the first place, were that permanent... this is WarFrame, not Dark Souls. And as for stealing WarFrames, you kind of need the Tenno inside it. It has been outright stated in lore (both Corpus and Grineer bemoan this rather much early-game) that a WarFrame without a Tenno yields no information. It self-disintigrates in the hands of those who try to so much as look at it under a microscope, part of why Alad V needed to capture you alive for the Zanuka project, so that he could actually study the WarFrame and harvest the parts without it flying to nanites on him. The shape of the Zanuka even suggests that there are still pieces of the internal portions of the WarFrame still intact in it, perhaps with the Tenno (perhaps even more than one) still trapped inside.
If you want something similar, go get caught by the Zanuka hunter. Seriously, go tick off the corpus. You will have to run through a stealth-based mission until you're blue in the face trying to get your Warframe abilities back, along with your weapons. Have fun fighting bare-handed.
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Apologies for the shameless bump, but this really needs attention. It keeps happening, and really ruins people's missions.
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Ouch. That's a rather harsh fix for those of us who tend to play solo...
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Yes please? I've been wanting to see the new stuff for a while now. ;w;
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Yes, I know it's my personal name for it, but to players who actually WANT to use melee with parkour and the other weapons, this puts us dead in the water. When it occurs, you cannot use your melee weapon; the idles play, but whether in quick melee or melee mode, you can't swing your sword/dagger/what-have-you. You also lose the ability to manually roll, in any direction, (At least I have, I remapped my roll button to the forward roll on my scroll wheel so I could use it more often) and one of the elements of parkour 2.0 turns off; the wall-stick. So in short, if this glitch occurs, one cannot stick to the walls at will, one cannot use their melee weapon, and ground-based parkour effectively turns off.
I've done a lot of poking about on Apolodorus to see if I could get this glitch to occur, and did... several times. It only occurs when using a ranged weapon, never in melee mode. Once the glitch occurs, switching to melee mode does not help, using powers like Radial Javelin does not reset it... and lo and behold it makes Exalted Blade useless (no swing-a the sword, no launch-a the getsuga tenshou). It really hits both my warframe and my playstyle hard. I took a video of it, and am in the process of figuring out how to load it into the chat for further analysis, but that might take a while, so I'm starting with a description of the bug.
Has this happened to anyone else, is there a way to get the bug to un-trigger, and could we get this into DE's attention please? This is getting to be a real problem.
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You have my +1. So, any ideas as to what leveling these would do? Distance traveled, etc.?
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Sorry, Cebius. ;w; Yes, I quoted the wrong person. I meant this guy;
This isn't useful either. I'm running with aggro Carrier and so his shotgun alarm the Grineer around as fast as the Drahk running next to me. And I don't want to go only melee/non attacking Sentinel just for such broken enemies.
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I have stopped parkouring completey and the new systems is meh, for those of us who remembers the original tomb raider from ps1 with its slow movement mechanics this is no different. the wall hopping is just smurfs. so many things are broken now you have to question their sanity in this.
Oh, that explains what I saw in my disappointing trip through the conclave. I was hoping for some good competition. -w- No such luck. None of them could do much more than touch me because I WAS USING PARKOUR and they weren't. It's seriously a lot more fun when you play with it for a while, and nowhere near 'slow' unless you're one of those copter-spamming dungeon-crawlers who were sucking the fun from the game, in which case of course it would seem 'slow' to you.
Go ahead, miss out on one of the most fun additions to the game in a while, I'll be flying all over the maps leaving arrows in Grineer while they shake their fists and curse at their empty clips.
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I like where this is going, but your title was a bit lacklustre. You might want to put in what you wish to say rather than 'I propose this'. Doesn't really say much about what's inside.
Aside from that, I really like the idea, and want this to be a thing. You have all the +1 I have to give.
EDIT; You fixed it! ^w^ Thanks, now this should hopefully get more attention.
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It would be better DE decrease the recoil so that we have a slight recoil which not be disabling and increase damage as well maybe I could play them again.
They're best as spram-and-pray hand shotguns, not precision weaponry. If you mod up for multishot, slash damage and status chance, it becomes far more than viable as a bleed-and-(insert element of choice) hand-cannon. I personally turned mine to bleed and blast so that I can just unload into a crowd and watch them trying to stand up while bleeding to death, even in relatively high-level content... even while 'wasting' a slot on steady hands.
I'm surprised how many times I have to say that they're entirely viable if you play to their strengths.
Yes, I'd gladly use a single Jagara, however, which 'blade' would you prever to have? Top, bottom, or both?
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Hey, bullet jump past them. You knock them over, and deal a high chance of proc, default fire (though you can mod it to be poison, electric, pierce, slash, etc.). That stil gives you the escape route you were looking for, and sets the enemies up for more damage (even if you don't do a finisher animation, ragdolled actors take more damage).
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I love the update. But, with each passing hour of not getting the Natah quest after it bugged out the first time and my Sealab runs quickly rising well into a hundred, my love rapidly turns to disdain.
That's hatred for the RNG. We feel you bro. ;w;
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How do I sign? I put in my +1 a while ago, is that what we're talking about, or is there some other signature I need to put in? This really needs fixing. I don't mind the delay (read and weep, macro-using cheaters) but the way damage is calculated to stat/crit chance makes many of these weapons less than useful above level twenty, as they depend on criticals or status chance to stand up to mainstream weaponry.
I'm all about the oddball stuff, my weapons are bows and beams, I avoid guns when I can... just not my thing. It's slightly disappointing being unable to satisfactorily work with the mechanic that the weapon is based on.
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Good thing that the Drakk doenst alarm his fellow Grineer so far, and if they fixed that later in a hotfix, we can kiss stealth goodbye.
What we really need though, is a stealth 2.0.
So you're saying that a stealth rework wouldn't help you because you don't play stealth? -w- Helpful.
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Yeah... and they alert other Grineer now too. -w- While not impossible, it just made doing anything stealthily a whole lot harder.
Come on, DE, please plans for Stealth 2.0?
As for 'space pirates who blow everything up ...', yeah. That's just... argh. It's lore vs. the community here, and I'm going with the lore, because I'm really not all that enamored of much of the community for the very reasons stated. I'm driven to wonder if Microsoft was right about the vast majority of players when they insulted their supporters in Banjo Kazooie; Nuts and Bolts. "Collecting things is boring, and far too slow. Players today just want to shoot things."
I hope for better. ;w;
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Are you serious, Aratir?
Stealth is a large enough part of many players' gameplay that it deserves as much of a system. If you truly believe that
you have to play the only way its meant to, by killing everything and using aoe skill spams
then why is there a stealth system in the first place? Why are there alarms or even a detection system? Why is stealth rewarded with bonus experience? Why is the Tenno lore based around being a lethal shade, and what lore we have states that most in the system go their entire lives believing we're some kind of propaganda myth?
Stealth is supposed to be part of our arsenal, and at least one of our mastery tests reflects this. If you're not willing to use it, fine, but saying that it has no part of the game and saying the equivalent of 'you're not playing it right' in response is going a fair ways over the line. Honestly, players like you are the reason I went solo, and the game has become so much more fun for me as a result.
A bugged system is a bugged system. I'm quite tired of having some Grineer spot my Excalibur when I'm behind cover, and suddenly everyone knows where I am and someone they had neither time nor chance to communicate with has tripped the alarm, even if I managed to kill the one who spotted me before he got a single shot off. I get the idea of paranoia and radio comms, but this is ridiculous. On top of that, I can understand the Drakks having a rough idea of where I might be by scent, but having them instantly know exactly where I am the instant they spawn is far more than ridiculous.
I for one am eagerly awaiting Stealth 2.0. -
As for Radial Javelin... I would actually ask that it take a slightly different form, but have a similar effect to now. I mean, you don't even have to change the name with my idea, but if you wished to you could callit Field of Blades or something like that.
When Radial Javelin is triggered, it sends numerous blades/energy spikes up from the ground around him, impaling enemies from below and (at initial cast) pushing them away. The blades remain in place for 5/10/15 seconds, as a danger zone. Range will increase the size of the bladed field, however the blades will be smaller (less damage). Prone enemies or enemies that fall onto the spikes recieve finisher damage instead of standard slash/pierce mix.
Furious Javelin change ideas;
A; Furious Javelin will knock enemies over, allowing close enemies to fall onto the spikes for additional damage.
B; Furious Javelin will grant Excalibur additional melee damage for every enemy currently impaled in the spikes.
C; Furious Javelin will force elemental procs of your current melee weapon... ALL of them. (E.G., if you're running corrosive and blast on a slash-based weapon, they are left bleeding, corroded, and blown over.)
D; Furious Javelin will throw enemies toward you instead of away, boosting your melee counter by 3/4/5 for every enemy caught in the initial cast (basically throwing the enemies in range at you and boosting your damage against them)
Simple, gives it a good feel, and it synergizes with Slash Dash's perk of knocking over enemies you hit with it and don't kill. Any thoughts or ideas to improve, maybe? If it's liked I might make it a thread of its own. -
Alright, I'm getting sort of tired of this... many points have been presented and analyzed, and there was a lot of fun looking at the lore for a while, but it's devolved into people quoting the same points over and over without bringing up any new data or interpretations for said data, and any solid interpretations that fit all the lore available are being rejected out of hand. I've reached this point in several conversations, but this is the first time on Warframe;
ABANDON THREAD!!!
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Stopped reading the wall there.
No, the lore of Dark Sector concept is 4/10 canon with Warframe. Grineer, Jackal, Lisets, Excalibur, those were in the concept. Final product Dark Sector had zombies and a glaive. About the proto skins::::::::::: easter eggs! I don't know how many times I've said it, but I'm really getting tired of it.
Again; easter eggs do not come with their own lore and are not integrated seamlessly into the world that they come with, they are MADE to stand out. If they fit into the lore of their game, they are a homage, not an easter egg, and likely have something to do with the story of the game, or mark a linkage between the two. In this case, the game clearly states that the proto skins are historically relevant, and DE did not specify the lore Dark Sector (4/10 as you quote) as only applying to the scrapped concept art, which had so little in it as far as lore as to be irrelevant anyway. I find it to be quite logical to say that they were referring to the game, Dark Sector (especially as they said that they didn't fully own the rights to Dark Sector at the time, and had to get them back to make the proto skins... thus why WarFrame isn't called Dark Sector Online or something. Yes, they directly said that), and on top of that, the proto-skin is from the Dark Sector with the Glaive and Infested, else Proto-Excalibur would look like the Hayden from the scrapped concept art.
I also said;
My take on the lore is based on the Infested from both WarFrame and Dark Sector,
BOTH WARFRAME AND DARK SECTOR
In case you weren't looking, I backed up every single reference to Dark Sector with data from WarFrame, both visual elements and what few scraps of lore we are given. If you stopped looking at what I had to say because I disagree with you on one single point, and even pointed out a way in the intro to my post for you to examine my logic without even considering Dark Sector by ignoring many of the parts not having to do with it, then you are not looking for an actual debate, discussion, or even looking to compare notes.
This has become a lore discussion page (regardless of original intent), where people compare their viewpoints and attempt to put together a picture of what we, as Tenno, are. If you aren't willing to be a part of that discussion, and only continue spouting the same flawed logic (flawed because you aren't even looking at alternate points of view seriously) regardless of evidence to the contrary, then I must ask that you either back up your claims with information from the game(s) that you reference or leave the discussion.
Eh, but that's not the same as how some people are acting like we are energy orbs inside the Warframe.
I have never said that, nor have any I have yet seen in this thread. As for energy being an 'orb', what form does contained energy naturally take before any influence is on it? An orb. What does consciousness do to energy? Shape it, in the WarFrame universe... at least insofar as Vor is to be believed and the WarFrame/Infested powers to be thought of. We're practically told that the Oro are off-guard, recently ripped from their body. They disappear after a time... as if they just grow legs and walk off. :\ If you were energy, and suddenly thrown out of a body torn (or irradiated, or perforated, or burned... or whatever, take your pick) beyond usability, would you be on your feet and ready to go that split second? No. You'd be out of your element and forced to adjust for a bit. It's like putting on roller blades and trying to walk... then you'd catch your stride and start skating away... or rather, regain a frequency/form you could actually use and make yourself scarce.
I suppose what I'm trying to say is this; energy being does not equal one shape, as has been pointed out before. Form for energy, even sentient energy, is nowhere near stable and is influenced not only by normal forces, but also by its own consciousness.
TL;DR pay attention and actually read the whole post as intended before doing a -censored- pirriouette off the handle into the fire and burning everyone's toast, and try to keep an open mind. Everyone could be wrong for all we know. And energy isn't stuck being in an orb... especially not if it can form itself into any shape it wishes when it is stable enough to do so.
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Been thinking about this more lately and thought i should post some more of my take on it.
It can't be as simple as "Tenno are flesh and blood" or "Tenno are energy". We "operate" all of the warframes, so we know that we can't be just standard flesh and blood (it's impossible to go from rhino to nova if we're in a normal body). Sure the tenno can be made of organic tissue, and somehow swap bodies that are also organic tissue. Brain swapping or however you explain it. The tenno aren't just energy. Energy doesn't think. It doesn't feel. What we know is that Tenno express themselves, so we know they can't be energy. I think the best way to explain how the tenno control all of their different bodies is their life force, Their consciousness. In other words. Tenno are not Flesh. Tenno are not energy. Tenno are Life. And that Life is moved from one body to another to suit the needs of balance. I always thought when people said "Tenno are energy" they were saying that they were like energy. Fueling these machines with their being. Either i'm wrong, or some people seem to misunderstand. i think it's the latter.
my 2 cents... again... hopefully in a better worded way...
Therefore; energy... a 'ghost in a shell' if you will. An energy-based being is quite capable of feeling, expression, anything a physical being is... except much influence over the physical world. That would be where the WarFrames themselves come in.
At least, that's part of the way I see it.
My take on the lore is based on the Infested from both WarFrame and Dark Sector, as well as the Proto Skin that validates at least part of the lore from Dark Sector. And before someone yells at me about 'easter eggs!' again, they already confirmed that a fair portion of Dark Sector lore does apply to WarFrame, and I'm pretty darn sure they meant Dark Sector, not just that one trailer that was a concept partly abandoned.
The Infested of both WarFrame and Dark Sector have a bit of a recurring theme, mostly seen in the Ancients, the growths on walls (that did appear even BEFORE the mutalist mutation, so whoever you are that keeps yelling at me about this, keep your gob shut), Lephantis, and most of the Tenno themselves in one way or another, especially shown in Hayden himself and the proto-skins. The theme I'm talking about is twisted metal barely containing the energy it seems to be a cage for. Hayden's arm, all of the Infested from Dark Sector, Lephantis... all look like they're made of organic metal that's wrapped around and barely holding in some glowing force. Excalibur's back keeps the theme, and I'll keep referring to Excalibur's design, though many other Warframes have this.
A close look at Excalibur, both the default and Immortal skins, shows this; metallic, slightly twisted, layered, and definitely organic. The metallic sheen is even more apparent after the PBR update on the default skin. But there's more; there are long lines under his armpits leading to energy vents, and many of the existing energy vents are also at the ends of lines that look like they've been welded or sewn shut, or just had an implant to replace. The proto-skin and the Dark Sector Infested have line, tear or fissure-like energy vents.
Excalibur's codex entry; "We took the twisted few that returned from [the Void]. We built a frame around them, a conduit of their affliction. ... Excalibur was the first." Looking at Excalibur's back and sides, it's entirely possible to believe exactly that; that they took one of the Infested (whos origins I believe are from the Void, the Orokin likely just learned to harness some of the strains; thus the neural sentry and weaponized infested varieties like the Lephantis. That Salad learned enough about them to even mutate his own strain shows that it's entirely possible) that still held onto their mind (like Hayden for example. It's rather heavily implied that the pain of the transformation drives most insane, and the twisting of the mind drives the twisting of the body further. Hayden makes it pretty clear that he doesn't feel the pain in the same way most people do, either through the wiki's theory of congenital analgesia, or throught the CIA project he was in and the chemicals and/or training he and Mezner were exposed to, he kept his mind, and it shows; his arm isn't nearly as twisted or deformed as any of the other Infested, even in Dark Sector) and just... welded them back together and stuffed them with tech that uses the energy they gained, perhaps even eventually became as they continued to evolve. It looks like they just took a metallic creature and built around it, as the texture changes to something akin to leather or kevlar.
The Zariman children are an interesting poser, as it almost seems to be that the children on the ship were once the crew and passengers. We know they passed through the Void, but it isn't said exactly what happened to them afterward, save that they have strong energy-based defenses (poor Kaleen got burned hugging one, either through contact with the child or through a defender of the child, though I lean toward the former), much like the Infested in both Warframe and Dark Sector. For all we know, they could start evolving and taking on that appearance as well, the Orokin might have even developed the Infested we know in WarFrame from them, as is perhaps implied in Rhino Prime's codex entry.
The Oro are another poser, though they lend credence to the theory rather than going against it. If the Tenno, and some other beings, can step out of their bodies, even if they're stuck being shapeless for a while, then it would make complete sense... especially if DE decides to make the Oro be the same color as the Tenno's chosen energy color in that WarFrame. I honestly don't have much knowledge of either the mechanics nor lore surrounding this, as I avoid the conclave... at least until it's better balanced.
Of course, we all know of Vor's research and his cryptic comments... and it's not hard to take the theory and reverse it for what Vor's trying to do to us there; sure, a WarFrame is a boon for a being who can take on any body now... but requires a body to actually do much. If the WarFrame's hold on you is necessary for you to do anything worthwhile, and someone takes advantage of the WarFrame's systems and starts controlling it from the inside, it becomes a prison rather than a useable form.
Admittedly this is mostly conjecture, and relies heavily upon implications by lore that can be interpreted several ways depending on how you put the admittedly nebulous pieces together, but it's the idea that makes the most sense to me... and unlike many in this community, I have no problem whatsoever with the idea of not being human.
Also of note; the Infested from Dark Sector bled as well... as does Vor Prime, even though he claims to be the same thing he called us; energy, undestroyable, only able to be inconvenienced by death.
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And if it was both suit and body, they would would not be called Warframes.
You can build a frame around energy, and it's pretty easy to counter this statement because in literature one's frame refers to one's body. :\ Maybe a bit dated in terminology, but it's not that far of a stretch at all. 'A ranger, lean of frame and swift of foot...' as our DM once described an NPC.
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Reverse about two thirds of the animation from Radial Javelin, edit weighting to make the balancing work, and tadaa. Pretty simple idea, pretty epic result, I like.
Bolivian High Command Test Results: Weapon Blocking
in Weapons
Posted
Intriguing. Wonder how long these will remain constant? Hope they aren't hidden and either get reworked or get mods to enhance blocking ability. Something, please, this is kind of pitiful.