Amazerath
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Posts posted by Amazerath
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DNA increases pet health. Loyalty increases attack damage.
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22.20.7:
Spore's mechanics still feel like they only belong in Onslaught and are pain in the butt to use almost everywhere else in the game. The tweaks have made them slightly less of a pain in the butt to use but they are still not enjoyable. The infinite duration/scaling design is flawed and I would like to see it dropped. I respect and appreciate the attempt to do something new and different with Saryn but in this case I simply don't think it has payed off. I had more fun playing the old Saryn.
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Still bugged. It's likely due to the new mechanics that allow you to steal dargyns.
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It saddens me to see that Spore's mechanics have become such a dominant factor that they now demand an entire feedback thread dedicated to them. Meanwhile progress on Molt, Toxic Lash, Miasma and even Saryn's passive has to be put on hold. I think it is time to take a step back and realize that this infinite duration and scaling mechanics have not contributed to anything but problems.
They have failed to make Spores scale in a reasonable manner like the Viral Spores used to. That's mostly because the scaling is linked to enemy density and enemy density is something that varies heavily depending on the mission level and type. You cannot make this kind of scaling work for both Elite Onslaught and a random level 30 survival mission. The enemy density is not the same. But Viral Spores worked in both of these situations just fine (even when playing solo). Also, keep in mind Warframe's future seems to be all about open world areas where enemy density is even lower.
Another problem with the new mechanics is that they are just too self-centered. Instead of allowing Spores to be a foundation over which the player develops a playstyle, the infinite mechanics demand the player to devote himself/herself to Spores in a very specific way. And while Spores have always been the most important tool for Saryn, there was never a case in which Spores felt like such a pain in the butt to manage. You're always looking at the damage counter. You're always worried about decaying damage. You're always desperately looking for enemies even when you're supposed to be holding your ground and protecting an objective. Being in a state of constant struggle to make a single power function is not fun. And again, the old Viral Spores did not have this problem.
If we get rid of the infinite mechanics we can make way for something that is not only familiar to the players but is also proved to work under a wide array of circumstances:
- Give Spores Viral procs once again and use that for scaling. Or at least give Spores a property that is similar to that a Viral proc.
- Allow weapon damage to contribute to Spore damage. Keep Spore damage somewhat low (like it used to be) and let weapons increase its damage over time. That way Spores won't be able to deal much damage by themselves and that will encourage active gameplay (moving around to spread spores and distribute damage).
- Reward active gameplay with bursts of damage when the player pops spores. Don't balance the entire power on the basis that every single person is going to want to move around like crazy. Reward those who choose to do it but don't let that reward get out of proportion.
- Let Spores be cast on Molt once per Molt. Just so Saryn players are able to infect enemies in situations where targets are dying too fast. You might think it isn't necessary to use Spores on weak enemies but that is a fundamental part of playing Saryn. The act of spreading Spores is satisfying even when it is not necessary. But the fun of spreading Spores should not come at the cost of someone else's.
This obviously doesn't cover everything or fixes it. But it's a reasonable starting point with room for synergies with other powers.
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Things I like about the rework:
- Overall Saryn is now easier to play and to understand, meaning more players will likely be interested in trying her.
- Molt is now stronger, Toxin Lash is a lot more useful and Miasma is no longer just a really expensive crowd control power.
- Saryn can survive a little bit more due to increased armor.
- New sounds are nice.
Things I dislike about the rework:
- Spores no longer proc Viral, which means they are useless as a debuff tool against unarmored enemies. As a consequence, Saryn is now overall less useful and less unique. She is only useful if she is doing damage and killing enemies, whereas before she could still be useful even if your Spore damage was low (because of the Viral procs on Spores).
- You can no longer recast Spores, which means you can no longer manually spread Spores by casting them at isolated enemy groups. This is yet another hit against Saryn's capabilities as a debuffer as she now has to work miracles in order to spread Spores when fighting in open areas. This also works against the infinite duration/scaling aspect of the power. What's the point of infinite duration/scaling if I can't get my Spores from one point of the map to another? Warframe is a dynamic game and enemies spawn all over the place. Even 500% Power Range would probably not cover the necessary distance.
- Your teammates can now work against you if they wipe out nearby enemies and isolate your Spores from new victims. That was already a problem before, but you didn't really worry about it because there was no infinite duration/scaling mechanic. You could afford to start over as many times as necessary and Viral procs meant damage was not the only thing Spores had to offer.
- Spore damage doesn't benefit from your equipped weapon anymore. That's bad because with a powerful weapon you used to be able to get a considerable amount of burst damage very quickly. This made Spores a very flexible power that you could quickly deploy anywhere near you. Now you have to baby-sit the damage build-up and pray for the spawns to be kind. I honestly feel like I spend more time looking at numbers now then looking at the enemies I'm fighting.
- You can no longer cast Spores on Molt. This used to be very helpful when you wanted to cast spores but your team kept killing everything and leaving you with no targets.
- Molt temporary buff should give Saryn armor, damage resistance or invisibility instead of speed. Speed is cool but it has very little use when you're overwhelmed. And that's precisely the kind of situation you want Molt to save you from.
- Currently, it only feels like Saryn is functioning properly when you play Onslaught or another similar type of endless mission that has high level enemies and a high number of enemy spawns. The previous Saryn worked well on mid level content (around level 30) as well as high level content (level 60+) and crowds of enemies were important but not mandatory.
- It feels frustrating to play the new Saryn solo because there are not enough spawns to maintain the infinite duration/scaling mechanic on Spores.
Things I absolutely hate about the rework:
- I have found situations where the most effective way to play the new Saryn is to cast Spores at an enemy, shoot him once and then run away and hide behind a box. Since Spores can propagate automatically you can just sit there while enemies die and spore damage builds up. Spores will still run out from time to time but due to the fact that there is absolutely no encouragement or benefit for engaging enemies you can just repeat the process.
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Changes I like:
- Simpler Spores. Considering Warframe is mostly a casual game, current Spores is unnecessarily complicated. Making the power more simple means more people will be interested in using Saryn and less threads titled "How does Spore work?" will show up in Players Helping Players (maybe).
- Molt scaling. Obviously necessary and also nice. I think a temporary armor buff would have been better then a speed boost but I think speed will be somewhat useful as well.
- Ranged Toxic Lash. I may finally start to use it again.
- Miasma buffs. Too early to know if the buffs are actually meaningful but anything is better then the current one.
Changes I have mixed feelings about:
- No more synergy between weapon damage and Spore damage. I feel the synergy is interesting because it adds a bit of complexity to how you choose and build your Saryn weapons. It allows you to use one weapon for Spores and another weapon for a different task, such as killing highly armored enemies. I'm also worried the base damage increase on Spores might not match the damage veteran players are able to add with our maxed out weapons. On the other hand, the synergy also restricts your weapon selection and new players who are using Saryn for the first time are sometimes harmed because of this.
- Scaling damage on Spores IF you don't recast it. Obviously this means you'll never want to recast it. And that means every Saryn build will probably be even more focused on Power Range. To the point where I'm imagining people will be able to scale the damage so much on endless missions that it will become a problem. Another possibility is that people simply won't be able to maintain the scaling and will be constantly forced to start from zero. Constant resets in scaling would be incredibly frustrating and could potentially put Saryn into a situation where if you drop the scaling too much you won't be able to recover from it. So as much as I like the idea of Spores scaling I'm not sure this is the right way to do it.
Changes I dislike:
- No more Viral procs on Spores. I think this is a bad idea because Viral is what allows Saryn to act as a debuffer. That gives you an option because even if you don't focus on damage Saryn can still help your team by reducing enemy health. With the changes Saryn will become yet another warframe that has to kill everything as quickly as possible in order to stay relevant. You're also exchanging a damage type that's focused on health for a damage type that is focused on armor. A lot more enemies have health then armor, so Viral is overall more useful then Corrosive.
- Can't cast Spores on Molt. I get it that people like to play the game without making an effort and that is not what the devs want. But some people use Molt as a starting point for Spores because sometimes your team is simply killing everything way too fast. You either cast it on Molt or you have to mash #1 and prey for a random eximus to not get oneshot so you can finally start doing your thing. Can't you just make it so that you can only cast Spores once on each Molt?
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Whipclaw: I feel Whipclaw is a good power but at the same time it encourages brainless spamming in order to keep the combo counter up. I wish there was an alternate mode (like Gara's #1) that allowed it to be used in a different way. I also feel the power would be more fun to use if it was a 'keep attacking and draining energy for as long as the button is being held' kind of power. But that would require new animations and hopefully wider whip attacks.
Ensnare: Currently it is almost impossible to make Ensnare work the way it's supposed to. The pull delay is the first problem. It forces you to waste time waiting for the power to do its thing before you can actually benefit from it. And while you're waiting you'll keep getting attacked so it's better to just kill your enemies instead. The second problem is that the spread effect is either bugged or way too limited for the power to be useful against groups (even small ones). You can cast Ensnare to stop a single powerful foe but you can't count on it for anything else.
Venari: Venari is probably Khora's most interesting power. She does a lot of useful stuff and the ability to directly command her makes her more interesting to use then a standard companion. The only thing I don't really like is her protect stance. I feel like it should allow her to temporarily stun/knockdown enemies around her while simultaneously disarming a single target. Because as it stands the protect stance is not really worth using.
Strangledome: It's not the most visually interesting power ever but at least it doesn't blind the players with too many lights and effects. It's also a good power that offers several different benefits and useful synergy with Whipclaw. The only problem I have with it is that sometimes Whipclaw will consistently miss enemies that were pulled to the upper part of the dome. Even if you aim perfectly the whip will act as if there were no enemies there. Maybe it would be better to make the whip collide with the dome itself in order to spread damage. A visual pulse effect originated from the collision point that flowed through the dome would also be nice.
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1 hour ago, [DE]Helen said:
The reason we chose these drop rates comes down to finding a balance in Sanctuary Onslaught - Khora is in every reward tier (AABC) of the same mission.
You could have used a system similar to Plague Star's. You could have changed the reward system to allow the game to re-roll blueprint rewards that are already owned. You could have added the parts as rewards for one of the nearly abandoned game modes Warframe has, such as Infested Salvage.
There were other options yet you seem to have chosen the worst one. And considering everyone has been waiting for this warframe since December what you're doing is a pretty low blow.
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Does it always occur? Max settings and lowest settings?
Also, in the game launcher you have the option to select DirectX 10 or 11. Try checking both initially. If it doesn't help then try with only one of the two checked. It's a wild guess but it might do something.
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1 minute ago, Edgarhighman said:
I'm not asking them to "transform" or do anything to his "character". I enjoy Vay Hek. This specific audio line affects people who have suffered repeated traumatic verbal abuse for extended periods of time. This is not related to bullying. This is not related to Likes or Dislikes. This is not related to me asking/wanting a game changing modification. Refer back to OP. This psychological issue is relative in terms to biological epilepsy. It's not controllable and I'm making this post to bring it to the attention of DE. ITS ONE SENTENCE with a double negative connotation that affects people. Repeated, a lot. Again, please do not try to make my post into something it is not. This has nothing to do with his "character".
I'm not trying to make your post into something it's not. Your OP was simply not clear enough for me. Most of your post is talking about harassment so I assumed the problem was harassment in general, not just one specific sentence.
You're talking about something complex and perhaps unusual. Not everyone is going to easily understand it right off the bat.
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31 minutes ago, Edgarhighman said:
Just "this" event, not the game :P Yes, I did not "clearly ask or suggest" for a change and Yes this is about raising awareness of a concern that affects people. I didn't want to offer a change or modification because that would be up to them in how they implement anything they'd do if they did!
I understand. But I don't think there's much they can do about it. Asking them to try to avoid making characters pound you with negativity is one thing. But if you're expecting them to transform a character that is deliberately abusive into a character that's not abusive then I don't know.
If there was absolutely nothing you could do in order to avoid this problem then it would be different. But you have options. Yes, they're crappy options but I think you can understand that changing the character would also be crappy. So unless DE is willing to add an audio option that's something like "Turn negative character comments off" I don't know what else can be done.
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7 minutes ago, Edgarhighman said:
Personally, I'd just not play the event. My loss. Just as I took a 5 day break, I'd have to take a permanent one.
I'm not sure I understand why you would need to take a permanent break from the game if the event is only temporary. Maybe it would be easier to understand if you explained what the purpose of this thread is. Your opening post explains a problem but since you don't suggest anything or ask for anything I can't really tell if you're just raising awareness about the issue or actually hoping for something to change.
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45 minutes ago, Edgarhighman said:
I know you guys meant NO HARM, and that for many this means nothing, but in reality, doing this mission over and over does have an affect on people. "Just turn off X sound" right? I'd rather not have to modify my entire gaming experience because of one repeated negative phrase.
If you don't want to modify your experience in order to solve your problem then what other solution do you propose that doesn't involve modifying everyone else's experience?
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I captured the Hydrolyst yesterday on my very first attempt using Oberon Prime. I'm an experienced player overall but when it comes to Hydrolyst hunting I have about as much experience as you do. The things that really made it all possible for me were:
1) A lot of Power Strength. I had 224% (+25% from Growing Power) but I don't think you actually need that much. Either way, high Power Strength means more healing and more armor for everyone so you should at least make it your highest stat.
2) Enough Power Efficiency and/or Power Duration to get by. These stats will help maintain Renewal so you shouldn't sacrifice them too much otherwise you'll run out of energy much faster. Running out of energy can cause your whole team to lose momentum and if things start to get out of hand the hunt might be over.
3) A lot of energy (Flow or Primed Flow). Having a lot of energy is important when you're still learning. It allows you to make some mistakes without losing Renewal. You can probably work with less energy later on after you have gained a lot of experience.
4) The Rage mod. I think this one is a must. It's basically the only way to recover energy while Renewal is on. Be advised that if your team has a Harrow that means you won't be able to take as much damage and gain as much energy as a result. You might want to discuss some strategies with the Harrow player in order to make sure you won't run dry due to Harrow's excessive use of his invulnerability power.
5) A reasonable team. This one is may be the most important thing. My team had one Oberon Prime, two Rhinos and one Harrow. This is not the ideal team but it did the trick mostly because everyone kind of knew what to do and remained calm. Revives, lost lures, bugs, mistakes... all of that happened. But nobody was freaking out. And that allowed us to recover and capture the Hydrolyst. When people start hurling insults, it's over.
Please keep in mind I did not use Phoenix Renewal or any other augment. The build I used (below) is a raw stats build. It gave everyone 499 armor and that seemed to stop most of the crap Hydro was throwing at us. Light pillars were still instant death though.
Spoiler
One important thing to know about Renewal is that as soon as you cast it the power creates a permanent healing area on that spot. That means you can cast Renewal anywhere you want and drop a waypoint to signal to your team where the healing field is located. Then all they have to do is to run past that waypoint and they'll get the Renewal buff. You don't actually need them all to be near you as long as you explain to them how the power works and how they're supposed to benefit from it. Lures are a different matter but as long as they're following you they should be within range of the buff.
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1 minute ago, EinheriarJudith said:
but it does allow you to play her in a new interesting way rather than toggle on toggle off turret mode you can now move roll into place where line of site would have been an issue. when someone says " Giving exilus status to only some augments feels like you guys acknowledging that the augment isn't that great " its like saying mods that go to exilus arent that great when in fact there are some pretty powerful exilus mods like handspring or enemy sense, rush, pain threshold etc. just because it entered exilus does not diminish its worth.
I wouldn't really call moving and rolling "new and interesting". To begin with I think no power should force you to stand still in a game like Warframe. So to me Mesa's augment should have been part of Peacemaker instead of a mod that you have to equip.
As for the rest, the idea is this:
By default, augments are not exilus mods. That means exilus augments have an advantage over augments that are not exilus. That advantage is that you can equip them in the exilus slot instead of a regular one.
So when I see an exilus augment it's like DE is saying "ok guys, this augment isn't that cool... but hey you can equip it in your eximus slot! So that makes it ok, right?". And in my opinion it doesn't make it ok. I don't want exilus augments. I want awesome augments with effects that justify the sacrifice we make by equipping them in a regular slot. And I don't mind augments having trade-offs if that's necessary. I just want more variety, really.
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1 minute ago, Zvezda.Ixora said:
You said that it 'isnt that great" when in fact it helps a lot. I quoted it and you-know-what happened next
So your point is that the augment helps a lot. Alright. I don't disagree. I simply think DE could have come up with something better. Something that wouldn't need to be exilus in order to help it compete with other augments.
My post is not about "this augment is crap and I hate it". It's about "I wish this augment allowed me to play Mesa in a new and interesting way". In fact, that is something I wish all augments in the game offered us.
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Just now, Zvezda.Ixora said:
Nobody said useless tho
Well yes, that is my point. I mentioned the augment could be better. You quoted my post saying the augment is useful. If you weren't under the impression that I considered the augment to be useless then why did you quote my post? What is your point?
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1 minute ago, Zvezda.Ixora said:
" Giving exilus status to only some augments feels like you guys acknowledging that the augment isn't that great."
IDK what you meant by this tho
"Isn't that great" has the same meaning as "useless" to you? To me "isn't that great" simply means "it isn't as good as it could have been".
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2 minutes ago, Zvezda.Ixora said:
Anything that gives you the ability to move faster to dodge and resist CCs are useful, unless you only play low-level Earth Missions
Did I say Mesa's augment is useless?
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3 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:
this is assuming exilus mods aren't useful which is incorrect. anything that makes you move faster to dodge deadly assaults is useful. anything that allows you to resist the kind of CC that would kill you or put you in a dangerous situation is useful.
Can you point out where exactly I said exilus mods aren't useful?
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1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:
' Because she also gains the ability to attack, if the augment only allowed you to move, but still locked in pose, then it would be Exilus. '
Wouldn't it be better if all augments were equally good / useful / interesting? Giving exilus status to only some augments feels like you guys acknowledging that the augment isn't that great. I always thought the idea behind augments was to make powers behave differently so that players could come up with new builds and new ways of playing old warframes.
'Mesa gets to walk slowly while using Peacemaker' is probably not going to make Mesa much more fun to play. It's a nice gimmick but it's the kind of thing that should have been added to the power itself and not as an augment. And there are many other augments in the game that have this problem and don't even have exilus status.
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I'm pretty sure I heard Geoff say that Michael Brennan ("Mynki") came up with the original Orokin designs. He's probably also responsible for designing the other factions as well.
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@Kagezora You can just report your own thread and ask for a moderator to move it if you like. Button is on the top right.
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13 minutes ago, Iludra said:
These sound familiar to how it was the last time around. I don't think they've fixed those past bugs, so no surprise we see them again. Post this in the feedback forum, someone may listen.
If it's a bug you report it using one of the Bug Report forums. If it's an idea or a suggestion for the developers then it goes to the Feedback forums. If it's a discussion with the community then you use General Discussion.
Saryn Question
in Players helping Players
Posted
Some players were using Molt as a dedicated Spore spreading turret (casting Spores over and over again on Molt while remaining in one place). That kind of stationary gameplay was not something DE wanted to support.
That's the reason they gave us.