Underurth

Tried this build and got absolutely decimated on steel path. Had some energy issues and was getting downed before I could even finish casting my 4. Are you perchance shield gating to make this work? I'm not sure how you are handling lvl 300s with this build. Lvl 150 lancers were demolishing me. Tbf I do not have those arcanes fully maxed but I can't imagine a couple ranks in those arcanes would make that huge of a difference. It could be play styles. I prefer a tank/off-tank type of play style and this is def not that. So it could be on me for not using this proper but I have my doubts on how viable this actually is on steel path with how fast I was getting destroyed. I'll keep messing with him, but I stand by my op that undertow being returned to his kit as an alternate fire of tidal surge, even if it were a timer(like xakus abilities) would serve hydroid well

I do believe he is a bit worse when it comes to surviving in the harder stuff(steel path) but I also agree that he was lacking damage and a lot of his rework was good. The only difference in our builds is you use adaptation where I have all 3 umbral mods. I'll have to play test to see if this makes that much difference. Maybe I've been sleeping on adaptation. I'm open to give it a go, though I find it hard to believe that one difference makes him go from one shot by lvl 150-200 to surviving lvl 300 content. Tbf I don't really use adaptation though so maybe will learn something new! Here's to hoping. Regardless, the thread is bring back undertow, and the idea was not to replace anything but add it back maybe combined with tidal surge. I'm not sure why anyone would hate that. Just don't use it if you don't like it. Simple enough.

Congrats on your "I can do it, get good" comment. That really wasn't beneficial to the discussion at all. "I can run nix and kill lvl 1000 enemies, I dunno why you can't" not helpful. I'm still not sure why you are against adding a skill that added versatility and wouldn't change anything about his current setup. I will say against lvl 200 corpus, with +2k armor(from plunder) I was getting one/two shot by regular enemies, his 1 does minimal damage and his 4 doesn't effect most of the enemies until their over health is stripped. so I'm not sure if we are playing the same game. Congrats to you for finding a way to not get decimated instantly? Assuming that's true. Maybe share your build? Not trying to be a smart a**, I just don't really get what your purpose is in this post. It sounds like you just want to be argumentative against giving him undertow for...some reason? And maybe want some praise? Good job? You are a warframe pro and better than those of us who want undertow back?

Just to clarify I'm not grumping about his new kit, I don't want it reverted back, I just want undertow returned to his current kit. I'm not sure why there is argument against this? It doesn't take anything away from him and it isn't exactly an op skill so...the argument against is just to argue? We don't want hydroid to be better? I'm not sure I understand the opposing view. I could get on board with this, the only argument against it is that they have combined abilities for other frames. Vauban and Bastille/Vortex. Zephyr is another example. So why not for hydroid?

As I said, in general the changes were good but at the cost of survivability which is critical in steel path. I wasn't griping about damage, in fact I stated the damage it provided was what he needed. The problem is the loss of undertow was a big hit to his late game viability. Your counter of "he is great if you do this specific thing that only works 100% on armored enemies" does not discredit the statement that keeping undertow would have kept him versatile in late game regardless of the enemy or situation. Maybe plunder should strip shields as well? Or maybe just bring undertow back as a hold ability. It wouldn't be hard. As I said, I agree it was an attempt to go the right direction with him, but taking undertow was a mistake. If you felt undertow was just a meme ability then you didn't utilize hydroid properly before. Many didn't and think his change is great. Me personally, I disagree and just want an awesome ability back for the frame I used to main.

@Antifreeze I agree that in theory his rework potential was good, plunder would be better if it wasn't line of sight. That really makes it mediocre, but the idea is there and good. Hydroid needed some kind of damage buff. That works perfect, but the cost(losing undertow) makes him nearly unplayable in steel path or anything end game. Sad to let my pirate man go heh. I fear it will be like what happened to Atlas. Reworked poorly and broken then forgotten.

Hydroid was one of the most underrated frames before his rework. I mailed him and he was a monster when used correctly. Undertow was key to his survivability. Losing that skill was detrimental to him. That being said, I do like the idea of his new plunder. I think it was needed for damage, but couldn't undertow have been combined with maybe tidal surge? Hold to enter undertow, tap to surge? We have done this with other frames, zephyr and vauban stand out particularly. I know many didn't like hydroid before the rework, but since he lost undertow he lost a huge survivability skill which was a huge help in steel path, end game tier missions. 2000 armor(which is not easy to get with plunder due to its bugginess) really doesn't mean much in high level steel path. Dropping into a puddle to recover shields and possibly cc enemies mid mission was way more effective for surviving. In the end my point is, give us back undertow! I like plunder, but I want undertow back as well! :D Mained not mailed haha. Typo