Why Warframe's Newbie Experience Is Terrible Right Now.

[Xylia]

The PS4 Release of Warframe (which I assume coincides with Warframe coming out of "beta" stage) is getting ever closer by the day, but to be honest, this game is simply not ready to exit "Beta" stage and be released on a new platform, by a longshot.

 

One of the huge reasons as to why, is that this game is simply not for Newbies, whatsoever.

 

If you are new to Warframe, and you don't know anybody already playing it who is already established, you are going to have a Terrible time of it, and God Forbid you are someone with NAT issues that can't play in Groups.

 

The people who can't do Groups because of NAT might as well just go home.

 

Here are some of the problems that are plaguing Warframe's Newbie Experience:

 

1). Crafted Weapon Availability. Sans the Cronus and the Orthos (which is Rank2-locked), you cannot make a weapon until you get to Mars/Saturn/Jupiter, because every weapon takes either Salvage, Nano Spores, or Plastids. Saturn/Mars/Jupiter are Level 25+, which forces newbies into using only Credit-Buyable Weapons unless they plunk down a large amount of platinum. This means the following weapons are the only options for a newbie:

 

MK-1 Braton

Lato

Skana

Braton

Strun

Aklato

Lex

 

And that's it. And of course, the Cronus and Orthos once the Newbie reaches Rank 2. Not only does this make life difficult for Newbies, this also makes things very uninteresting as well. They'll see all of these bows, axes, hammers, etc that they can't make because they're not to Lv25 content yet, unless they get carried. Before Update 9, one could make a Paris as early as Level 10 content, for example. Not anymore.

 

2). Rifle Mods Do Not Drop Until Lv25+ Content With the exception of Ammo Drum, Flechette and Eagle Eye, Rifle/Shotgun Mods do not drop from enemies until you get to at least Level 25 content. After doing probably 100+ missions with both of my accounts in Mercury, Venus, and Earth and not seeing a single drop, I think it is fairly safe to say that newbies are going to have a hard time trying to clear this stuff with unmodded Bratons and Struns. I've tried various Infestation, Grineer, and Corpus maps, nothing seems to drop anything for your Primary weapon.

 

3). Unfair Conditions exist as early as Mercury. I tried Apollodorus on my Newbie Account, and every other room had 2 Grineer Commanders in it. Another player noted how Fire Damage will spawn ontop of computers making it impossible to undo a lockdown. Napalms are far too powerful to be throwing at a Newbie at Lv10 content when their rifles have no damage mods.

 

4). The Mob Spawn Rate in Solo Mode is just too high. Again, for those poor souls who come freshly new to Warframe who have NAT issues, they find out the hard way that there's just too much crap spawning that they can't possibly handle the non-stop fire thrown at them, especially those poor souls who started as Loki and don't yet understand exactly how he should be played. That 75 shields and 75 health really doesn't last long when there's no safe places to get out of the constant incoming gunfire. No matter where you duck in behind a crate, something will either spawn behind you, or someone will throw a grenade at you. There's just no way to get out of all the constant gunfire in some missions. This needs toned down at least in the <Lv30 content so that newbies can at least get their footing.

 

5). Defense Missions. Defense Missions should not be roadblocks. After the recent changes in Update9 that made Defense Missions all-but impossible unless you grossly overpower the mission with superior gear (that a newbie won't have), Defense Missions are simply out of the question for a newbie to solo. So basically, a newbie who starts Warframe who has NAT issues can go as far as Venus, when they hit the "Kiliken Roadblock" until they grind, grind, grind, grind until their hair falls out and maybe they might be able to barely scrape through it. Problem is, Kiliken is by far not the only Defense mission that DE decided to stick in the direct progression path. There are several others, such as Eurasia (Yay, Disruptors). Defense Missions should be off to the side as they all-but require a group to finish. Back during u8, they might have been possible to solo with appropriate gear for the level, but not anymore.

 

6). Credits. My God, the Credits. You throw all kinds of Fusion Cores at Newbies, and then ask for 3,000 credits to fuse one into a mod... uh...you're lucky you get 1,500 credits out of a mission on Mercury. Venus, isn't so bad as long as the newbie knows to seek out the loot rooms (and somehow magically knows where those hidden loot rooms actually are) then you might get 4k a mission. The Braton alone is 25k, which takes at least 10-15 runs of M Prime until you have enough to buy the stupid thing, and if you want Aklatos, you need ANOTHER 25k ontop of that, and they want you to pay up 3k for fusing a Fusion Core.... trying to start the game is a complete chore. Then, later on, you have more credits than you could ever spend. Seems a bit unbalanced to me; perhaps the Braton/AkLato should be 15k not 25k and the single Lato should be 5k.

[PsychedelicSnake]

I'm willing to assume that, since the PS4 release has Sony behind it, it won't suffer from the Networking and NAT issues that currently exist in the PC version.

 

Also, I (personally) doubt that Warframe will come out of beta on the PS4 release. If anything, it will probably be a PS4 beta. But yes, there are things that need to be fixed, but some things are easier to fix than others.

[MageMeat]

Just saying, when I was new, I did Kiliken with three other newbies and we finished.

What you are saying is implying that everybody solos everything. Which is ridiculous.

[Xylia]

I'm willing to assume that, since the PS4 release has Sony behind it, it won't suffer from the Networking and NAT issues that currently exist in the PC version.

 

Also, I (personally) doubt that Warframe will come out of beta on the PS4 release. If anything, it will probably be a PS4 beta. But yes, there are things that need to be fixed, but some things are easier to fix than others.

 

The NAT was more directed at PC newbies, but you know when Warframe comes out of "Beta", we would surely get an influx of newbies trying the game.

 

We need the Newbies to have FUN in their first few hours of Warframe, not to feel like they're banging their head against a brick wall.

 

The issues I mentioned above are fairly easy and simple to fix.

[Xylia]

Just saying, when I was new, I did Kiliken with three other newbies and we finished.

What you are saying is implying that everybody solos everything. Which is ridiculous.

 

I'm talking about people who have NAT issues.

 

Oh, and Kiliken?

 

With my Newbie Test Account, it took me 3 days to get Kiliken done, because every time I checked it, 0 players were at Kiliken until I finally found _1_ player, and we had mild difficulty trying to get it done (the pod had dropped to 50% because it was a laggy host).

Edited August 29, 2013 by Xylia

[PsychedelicSnake]

The NAT was more directed at PC newbies, but you know when Warframe comes out of "Beta", we would surely get an influx of newbies trying the game.

 

We need the Newbies to have FUN in their first few hours of Warframe, not to feel like they're banging their head against a brick wall.

 

The issues I mentioned above are fairly easy and simple to fix.

They're simple to fix in design and everything, but there are other reasons why it would be difficult. Lately, there has been a trend where many forum goers have been quite hostile and bashed DE, provided non-constructive criticism, etc. Their comments are often seen first because they are "louder" than more constructive, rational comments.

 

Plus many people are simply impossible to please. I'd say DE is more hesitant to fix certain things than anything because the community is so bipolar (although admittedly much less so than other game communities).

Edited August 29, 2013 by PsychedelicSnake

[OptimumBow0]

I'm technically still sort of a newbie, and I didn't really have it so hard as you're saying. The computer I play on does have internet issues, and when it does fail and sticks me into solo-mode, I can actually accomplish the mission. I was also able to get Stormbringer, Hellfire, and some other decent mods in missions around Earth-Mars. Also, pretty much the first Mars mission I ever did, I got the extra morphic i needed to complete my Dual-Ether Swords, pretty much an extremely awesome weapon I've had no grievance with. I didn't really feel at an unfair advantage at all when starting out. This pretty much took a few hours of game-play diffused between a couple of weeks. 

[EirikAura]

Xylia, you are a breath of fresh air in a room full of "L2P, tl:dr, HURR"

 

Thank you for continuing to bring this to the fore.

[Erusa]

Networking issues...they're supposed to be remedying this...

Loot Table 2.0...They're also supposed to be fixing this...

The randomness of the fire pits...I have no idea. :/

Like I said in the other thread, today's a bad time to be a newbie.

[EirikAura]

I'm technically still sort of a newbie

Did you start before or after U9?

[OptimumBow0]

Just before Update 9. Like, maybe over a week before it came out?

Edited August 29, 2013 by OptimumBow0

[Xylia]

Just before Update 9. Like, maybe over a week before it came out?

 

That means you probably found a lot of crap that you can't anymore.

 

My Newbie Test Account was created just after Mod Drop 2.0, when Fusion Core drops were broken.

 

Said Account is now in Mid Earth, and to date, it has found:

 

Pressure Point (Melee Raw Damage)

Convulsion (Pistol Electric Damage)

Heated Charge (Pistol Fire Damage)

Flechette (Shotgun AP Damage)

Eagle Eye (Rifle Zoom)

Hawk Eye (Pistol Zoom)

Warframe Vitality (several of them)

Sentinel Vitality (way too many of them)

Ghost (Sentinel)

Revenge (Sentinel)

Diamond Skin

Steel Fiber (Sentinel)

Ammo Drum

Deep Freeze

 

 

And.....that's about it, except for Fast Hands, and Quickdraw which I got out of Sabotage/Raid rewards.

 

See what's missing?

 

Redirection (this is the #1 most important mod a newbie NEEDS, and needs ASAP!)

Rifle Damage of any kind

AP for Pistol, Rifle (very important once you get to Earth!)

Raw Damage for Pistol, Rifle.

[Xylia]

After talking about my Newbie Account, I was like

 

"Where did I leave off again?"

 

And I logged on to play, and.....oh yeah, riiight.

 

Eurasia.

 

Oh, lookie dat.

 

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/631916283496274341/5CD9E980697120EA9844ADA7BF4F61900698CF5F/

 

Guess I ain't gonna play my newbie account tonight either.

 

I obviously ain't gonna solo a Mobile Defense, and there's nobody at the node. Wasn't anybody there last time I checked, either. I suppose all of these days that I log on to grab my daily roll has gotten me about 30,000 credits lol. But it ain't doing anything for me unlocking the map...

Edited August 29, 2013 by Xylia

[Sev1107]

I have a small solution. Dont try playing solo on a coop game. Use your friends.

 

If that doesnt work, use abilities.

 

If that still doesnt work...well then just run through it (did that when i first started cuz i got tired of getting pwned as loki in solo, yeah, wasnt my smartest idea to go solo...).

Edited August 29, 2013 by Sev1107

[EirikAura]

I have a small solution. Dont try playing solo on a coop game. Use your friends.

 

If that doesnt work, use abilities.

 

If that still doesnt work...well then just run through it (did that when i first started cuz i got tired of getting pwned as loki in solo, yeah, wasnt my smartest idea to go solo...).

Just run through... Yeah, why don't you try running through Eurasia? The point of this is some people have NAT issues, host issues or as stated nobody wants to do those roadblock missions.

 

This thread is about the newbie experience. Look at the mod list there, no AP, nothing really for rifles at all, and no way forward. THAT is the point.

[Xylia]

I have a small solution. Dont try playing solo on a coop game. Use your friends.

 

If that doesnt work, use abilities.

 

If that still doesnt work...well then just run through it (did that when i first started cuz i got tired of getting pwned as loki in solo, yeah, wasnt my smartest idea to go solo...).

 

Click that link I posted above.......

[Baigan]

This is more about newbies with NAT Problems than the entirety of the newbies.

 

Newbie with NAT issues =/= Every single newbie.

 

Regardless, if you have issues playing coop on a coop focused game, that's where you are banging your head against a wall. One can try and solo content but shouldn't expect it to scale down to their appropriate skill lvl.

 

The fundamental ease of the game the moment you add another player is that effectively the enemies have a second target, reducing possible incoming damage by 50%. It further goes down as you add more players, not even taking into account the firepower they bring, frame powers and sentinels. I don't think the game scales UP enough in difficulty unless you reach ludicrous enemy lvls in endless defenses with a full group, where it overscales. Random rewards also play a part on this. Isn't there a chance to get the more essential mods as mission rewards?

 

However, I do agree to bring these into discussion is important, but I have trouble agreeing with the "friendlier" approach. Fixing what is broken is fine (fire on top of consoles, redirection not dropping early enough...), but holding the player by hand is a trend in many games already, not -every single game- needs to be like that.

[Xylia]

Update: After a couple hours, finally saw someone at Eurasia. Laggy, but we managed to do it (and of course I end up doing 80% of the damage, despite there being a Nova in the group).

 

Now, I'm stuck at 2 more roadblocks:

 

Lua and Lith.

 

Mobile Defense and Defense, respectively.

 

Nobody at either node. Well, there was someone at Lua... joined them, and the lag was simply atrocious and we all wound up getting killed at the first computer because mobs were spawning faster than we could see/fight them, and we got swamped by 30+ mobs because of the horrible lag. And wouldn't you know it, more rank1 newbies. I did 54% of the total damage, despite me only having an unmodded Braton, Lato and Cronus.

 

EDIT: That reminds me. While doing Pacific (Deception, its right before Lua), I ran into 10+ Heavy Gunners (the tunnel leading to the extraction had 2 in the same room!!), and 4 Commanders in the same mission. I even had it set to "Online" and nobody joined me and I was forced to solo it. Isn't that a bit much for a Lv10 mission? Seriously....

Edited August 29, 2013 by Xylia

[Danakar]

This does seem to present a problem when certain mods simply are not available or being faced with enemies that are just too powerful. This game should be the experience as some kind of super space ninja. But instead they are getting their butt kicked before they even know what all their abilities do.

 

So I have to agree that there is need for some changes; especially in terms of 'must have mods' and the type of enemies at early levels.

 

As such DE might wish to rethink their current implementation of mods and might even consider separating the Loot Table into a 'Mercury-Earth' set containing the basic requirements for survival as well as weapon mods for alll types of weapons (with some rare stuff thrown in because it's always cool to get something special) and have a separate loot table for the rest of the worlds/mobs/levels/bla.

[Xylia]

Finally got a Lua group.

 

2 Newbies, Myself, and a Trinity and they all appeared to be using unranked guns, or guns with very low mods.

 

In the span of 4 minutes, we killed about 350 mobs (about 20 on the way in, 20 on the way out, the total end of mission was 401).

 

That's 85 mobs a minute, or 1.5 mobs per second.

 

Ain't that a little much for a Lv12-ish mission?

 

There were so many mobs, it was lagging the host's computer, because we started getting massive lag when the mob waves started rushing in. There was a Heavy Gunner every 10 seconds, and about 3-5 bombards at each objective. Scorpions and Roller Balls were also there.

 

Oh, and it was a Cryo Level ontop of that.

 

Just how much crap does DE think newbies can handle with unmodded rifles?

 

EDIT: Link to relevant pic: http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/631916283498572559/6502A4F4A47C32CF5715F42C9695225DAF250AFC/

Edited August 29, 2013 by Xylia

[Aishi]

A bit morbid, but it's probably because PCwarframe is just dead right now in terms of newer players, if you can't find a single connection to play with.

Instanced games tend to shun away new players like that, maybe the PS4 release is exactly what's needed to bring in a big crowd of players and probably ensure, more often than not, an enjoyable group experience.

[scope007]

The major issue here is the lack of "essential" rifle and redirection mods. Why did DE ever bother with loot 2.0?

[WARLOCKE]

I have a small solution. Dont try playing solo on a coop game. Use your friends.

 

If that doesnt work, use abilities.

 

If that still doesnt work...well then just run through it (did that when i first started cuz i got tired of getting pwned as loki in solo, yeah, wasnt my smartest idea to go solo...).

 

There is a solo mode for a reason. Further more the devs have stated that they intend for solo play to a viable method alongside co-op.

That mantra stopped working a long time ago.

Edited August 29, 2013 by WARLOCKE

[CaptainohCaptain]

But I had "newcomers experience" before the No Return buff. The only hard part was the control module.

Aside from it, This game is not supposed to be a solo game.

[EirikAura]

But I had "newcomers experience" before the No Return buff. The only hard part was the control module.

Aside from it, This game is not supposed to be a solo game.

Try it now, after the U9/drop 2.0...