Rhino Vs Chroma Dmg Buff Comparison

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb Drftingcloud:

.

Also, I don't think you can really compare your 1 and a half hour Draco run experience with my 1 and a half hour Mot experience. Especially since someone told me Mot enemies do 3x as much damage as enemies everywhere else.

With my ember mind you. You know, the frame everyone complains about lacking survivability, who's appearently managing 1/3 of the damage chroma does just fine.

And you shouldn't have an issue launching yourself into one on your battalyst challenge then, that was what we where originally getting at after all.

Edited October 6, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Drftingcloud]

1 hour ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

With my ember mind you. You know, the frame everyone complains about lacking survivability, who's appearently managing 1/3 of the damage chroma does just fine.

And you shouldn't have an issue launching yourself into one on your battalyst challenge then, that was what we where originally getting at after all.

What are you even talking about? My whole post was talking about how I don't need to go into nullified bubbles and only did because I was testing if the melee combo could be even more efficient at killing the nulli. It can't, you sometimes still lose Vex if you try to clip the nulli without fully depleting bubble. So I would just throw my shield at the nulli until shield fully depletes, then 1 shot it in the Battalyst challenge.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 12 Minuten schrieb Drftingcloud:

So I would just throw my shield at the nulli until shield fully depletes, then 1 shot it in the Battalyst challenge.

Nah man your whole thread was a controlled scenario. What i expect off of is that you to run a worst case scenario cause there's just no way for you or anyone, solo or in squads, especially not if you're wielding melee to avoid nullifier bubbles at all times. Run into it under fire, recast it and try to get a buff without, quote: "returning to the plattform"

That's literally what you asked off of rhino after all, creating a worst case scenario with AOE enemies in a small area so i'd like to see how chroma does in a scenario that doesn't favor him.

[Drftingcloud]

2 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Nah man your whole thread was a controlled scenario. What i expect off of is that you to run a worst case scenario cause there's just no way for you or anyone, solo or in squads, especially not if you're wielding melee to avoid nullifier bubbles at all times. Run into it under fire, recast it and try to get a buff without, quote: "returning to the plattform"

That's literally what you asked off of rhino after all, creating a worst case scenario with AOE enemies in a small area so i'd like to see how chroma does in a scenario that doesn't favor him.

That's what I'm saying. I did Mot for 90 minutes and avoided nulli bubbles. If you pay attention, you can too. So stop claiming it's impossible to avoid them. I'm sure there are others here who have no issues avoiding them as well. Did you even try the stance and weapon I suggested? Maybe I'll post a video of it. It's basically a ranged attack that hits multiple times, perfect for taking out bubble.

You know what, as I was typing this post I thought why the hell not, let's do it and shut this guy up. So I did run into the nulli on the battalysts scenario. All I had to do was bullet jump away immediate, run to other side of map and hide behind a pillar to recast Vex. Not that hard. What are you going to say next? Run into bubble and stand still?

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Drftingcloud:

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You know what, as I was typing this post I thought why the hell not, let's do it and shut this guy up. So I did run into the nulli on the battalysts scenario. All I had to do was bullet jump away immediate, run to other side of map and hide behind a pillar to recast Vex. Not that hard. What are you going to say next? Run into bubble and stand still?

Nah but how about you actually record it?

[Drftingcloud]

5 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Nah but how about you actually record it?

 

Now what? You gonna say I was hacking or something?

 

[Ailyene]

I decided to analyze the level 300+ survival Rhino solo video for fun and compare to Chroma when possible.  Decided to post my thoughts about it since there are some angles that may not immediately be obvious.  Incoming wall of text, spoiler tagged each section to minimize and have a TLDR version at the end.

Video:

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0J2UifMDwIE

 

Working out some basics for later:

Spoiler

 

His Galatine Prime is built specifically for maximizing Slash procs in his screenshot of it, meaning most of their DPS is going to come from DoTs.  They ignore their Primary/Secondary completely (Torid/Staticor) so he likely just let himself get shot at the start until he lost 101+ hp, I feel this is riskier than using Hema to pick up health orbs since it can't be done safely anymore if he needs a new stack after LV.100+ if anyone is feeling like trying this build.

Ironclad Charge will give ~120.3% armor boost per mob hit at the 241% power strength shown in his screenshot; we see him get a 3.61x multiplier (@4:40) after reaching level ~300 mobs, he tries to recharge later (@6:30) but ends up settling for 2 mobs after 3 charge attempts, and then again shortly later (@7:00) where he gets 4 this time achieving 482%, and his best shown charge at 8:20 getting 603% with 5 mobs.  So he averages 3~4 mobs once things are level 300+.

 

Ironskin estimate and the formula I am estimating from:

Spoiler

 

Ironskin Final Health = (Base Health + (Constant Armor Multiplier × (1 + Ironclad Percentage) × ((Base Armor × (1 + 0))+ Health Conversion))) × (1 + Ability Strength) + Absorbed Damage. (This guestimated formula is wrong somewhere but the end result is off by like 1~2% (higher than actual) so close enough for a rough estimate at least.)

Ironskin Final Health = (1200 + (2.5 × (1 + 2.41~6.03) × (275 × (1 + 1.1) + 1350))) × (1 + 1.41)) + 0.

 

Maximum Iron Skin in this video after reaching LV.~300 mobs is between 42,493(estimated 241% charge bonus)~84,666(number from video at 603% charge bonus). 

Maximized power strength Ironskin with S.Fiber alone is only ~10k, so even his 'low' value is far beyond what Rhino can normally achieve with just power strength and equivalent to Chroma's best (38k~53k) already.

 

Comparing them Offensively/Defensively in this scenario...

Spoiler

 

While it initially seems Chroma would have the lead in damage in this scenario as he does not need to sacrifice 2 mod slots for augments and one more for Health Conversion, notice how low the guy hits on the mobs.

Some of these mobs have 300k+ hp under an equally absurd armor value and he's hitting them for under 1000 (sometimes even under 100); Chroma would not hit much harder.  What is killing them in seconds are the slash procs which Rhino double dips in due to Roar bugs.

If a slash proc for me without Roar will do 3111 then with my +240% Roar multiplier it will do 41733 instead of the expected 10577.  That is almost 4 times more damage than it should add allowing Rhino to kill practically anything that bleeds; without this its unlikely this weapon build could kill these mobs fast enough to maintain life support.

Defensively, despite that Chroma could arguably maintain a higher average EHP than this specific Rhino player due to being able to be permanently topped out with constant healing, Chroma would not fair much better.  Slash procs would do severe damage to Chroma cutting straight past his armor and he is susceptible to chain CCs. (Even though Chroma can practically restore his full EHP in under a second off of any mob, I would still die from Slash procs back with 200k EHP triple dipping bugged Chroma).

In this situation, Rhino has equivalent to superior (maximum) EHP as long as there are 2+ mobs available along with far more damage than standard maximized Chroma along with resistance to CC and immunity to conditions.

 

 

Final thoughts on build used:

Spoiler

 

However strong though, this build depends heavily on Health Conversion.  Without it, even if you used the extra mod space to increase Power Strength to ~300% from 241%, Ironclad Charge would only give ~7k Ironskin per mob requiring 6 to do what he does with 2 mobs.

In my own testing, my 1172% Ironclad Charge bonus (8 mobs in a line tight enough for Charge, not a rare occurrence but not a common one either) only resulted in 57k Ironskin without Health Conversion and 25~32k with 3~4 mobs (what he averaged).

While he says he could continue, I strongly doubt that, since the lvl.300+ mobs will not allow a lone Rhino time to grind 3 health orbs unharassed.  Therefore it can be treated as 1 death = auto-abort in these conditions once that extra armor is actually needed to survive.

 

TLDR Version:
1: Rhino likely superior to Chroma both defensively and offensively in this scenario but with caveats.
2: Their Health Conversion build gives them an amazing defense but Rhino only has one life when it matters with it.
3: Their offense builds around Roar glitch letting him kill anything that bleeds and Rhino would not work in this scenario without it.

Edited October 6, 2018 by Ailyene
Minor formatting

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

U can easily avoid nully bubbles with an unmodded mutalist cernos. 

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Drftingcloud:

 

Now what? You gonna say I was hacking or something?

 

Not hacking but running away. Remember how you were going on about rhino needing to run and everything?..

[Drftingcloud]

1 hour ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Not hacking but running away. Remember how you were going on about rhino needing to run and everything?..

Where was I going on about how Rhino needs to run? That was never my point. I was saying Chroma was tankier than Rhino, and telling people to do the challenge to see for themselves. I never once said Rhino couldn't run away during the challenge, I said he couldn't return to the platform, you know, to pick up energy/health?

So I've done 90 minutes of Mot, I've done the simulacrum challenge that you came up with. Where's your video of Rhino doing this?

What? Don't have one? DIdn't do it? Did it and failed? I don't even care at this point, I don't even know why I'm still responding to you.

 

[Femuru]

how this thread got into a big topic of rhino vs chroma is beyond me. ppl they are used for different scenarios and team setups for the love of lotus sake, rhino is better used with CASTERS since he give power strength and not to mention because of that factor he make frames like frost gain more armor reduction with avalanche ABILITY, frames like hydroid that effectively doesnt use his weapon and relies more on his ABILITIES, or even frames like nidus or sarym somehow kill even faster with their ABILITIES also with a side of salt rhino 4 is better use of CC cuz utility does matter. chroma is used with a team of ppl who does most of their damage with WEAPONS example volt who is a good defense frame while even have boosted dmg with his WEAPONS, nyx who has good cc but her only source of dmg is from her WEAPON, and even a god like loki would be better fit wit chroma than rhino cuz again WEAPONS. trying to compare these two is like putting a muscle car in a drifting contest filled wit modded out jdm cars and putting a drift car in the long run race possible where the whole place is filled with built muscle cars. if anything chroma is more comparable to mirage! 

Edited October 7, 2018 by ShenRyujin

[Battle_Mage]

I know this is all about Chroma Vs. Rhino and all, but what happens when Chroma and Rhino team up in the Annual Crossover Edition with Gold Foil Glow In The Dark Variant Cover! That's going to be epic.

Also: Who would win in a fight between Chroma and Superman? That's the real question here.