Ancient Disrupters - Why?

[Mak_Gohae]

Ahh, I see. You think that it's always going to be the exact same situation over and over, that you can't have multiple spawns coming at once, that it'll always play out nice and easy and there'll only be one toxic ancient at a time in the mix of six to twelve disrupters. Unfortunately for you, this is not the case.

Never said such a thing.

I was replying to the picture you brought up as proof

Also, if you're playing a defense and are leaving the toxic ancients standing next to the cryopod for last, it's going to die from their aura.

Quite simply, the spawn rate or the abilities need an adjustment.

Again, with snowglobe they are reeeeeally slow in THAT situation

But in ANOTHER you should, i believe i said this, not let them get close. You can clearly see their green glow as they come out the door.

So essentially, instead of fighting them, I should just run away from them? How is that fun?

More fun than dying and complaining about it on a board.

You either are smart about the way you fight them or die, it's you choice.

And my Fragor is level 25, and I still cant even stagger level 13 ancients. The Gram can, however, but its range is appaling

Well, i guess that is the disadvantage this weapon has because it ignores armor. So bring another weapon when fighting Infested.

[Mak_Gohae]

No, that's a copout. If you really were only responding to the picture I posted, why did you say to have some Volts (who may or may not be in the party) use overload to kill the smaller stuff? There's no smaller stuff in that picture.

Sorry, i missed that you said it was the first wave.

The tactic for this is the same tactic i've mentioned before, lure the ancients away, in this case, away from the pod.

When they come out they are all shambling about so you have enough time to get to them and move them off.

One tactic that people should always use is aggroing, that means getting the attention of the enemies, as they are coming out the door. If you can handle the whole lot you should take them on but if not just keep them busy until you get help. I just did outer terminus last night with a Volt and i covered the two top doors right out of the starting point. If i saw a group come out i would rush the door, drop a shield, and began unloading.

Edited February 13, 2013 by JayWalker
Keeping OT

[SigFloyd]

The problem is, how can I run away from them if A) I cant see them beforehand (they might be around the corner for all I know) or B) I'm constantly staggered by chargers/runners/leapers

You know, it only just occured to me... but every single entity in the Infected army has a stagger/knock down.

They're also deathly silent while they run up to you in fast forward.

[Sherbniz]

They're also deathly silent while they run up to you in fast forward.

Exactly, I assume they'd be far less dangerous if you could hear them better.

Maybe add some suggestions to this thread: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/9727-ancient-infested-are-too-quiet/ :)

[dotVelan]

Have been running Xini and running into absolutely ridiculous amounts of disrupters, with a few toxics thrown in for hilarity. Twelve and more at a single time. Here's a screenshot of 6 disrupters + 1 toxic in the first wave.

http://imgur.com/cyl12F4

Yeah, cause trying to kill level 32 Disruptors with level 16 AKLATO is a good idea.

[Volume]

I'd rather they just lock out your powers during the duration of the emp/fuzzy/static effect rather than drain all energy.

But really, like I said on page 1, they aren't a huge problem, just wish they spawned more individually.

[dotVelan]

I really dont know about you guys that say theyre "sneaky", "silent" and have a long &#! range.

I for one, who use a Logitech G35 Headset can hear them through doors and walls without a problem.

Also, they never "charge" at you without you haveing aggroed it. If you take off with the small ones first and just leave it/them behind you can easily isolate them.

If you get hit by their charge your playing the game wrong, you can run and gun in here, pritty much without a downside. You can also jump up on boxes which makes them not even beeing able to scratch you, ever tried that out?

Fighting over 12 Disruptors in Defense mode is easier than fighting 4 hordes of small Infected. Just lure them away from the pod so that the Toxic ones dont harm it, and then jump up on a box. Done, deal. They will just stand there doing nothing.

About the range, sure, its annoying, but knowing the deadzone where they cant do anything against you neglects this.

Also, you cant outrun or jump away from a charge? Just hit them in the face with a smash, and they stagger. ( Unless you use a broken melee weapon. )

Shields regenerate as fast as a salaryman on fire anyways in this game, so losing it dosent really do that much as the disruptors hits slow as hell. ( Unless you get simultaniously hit by a group over and over ofcourse, but then your fqed anyways. Shockwave Moas is even worse at this as they will keep knocking you down over and over even while your lying down. )

Them removing Energy is something I agree on though, its boring, but... well... its war.

Also, use your skills to the fullest, makes life easier.

Im NOT saying you guys's opinions are wrong, I fully respect them. But you have to respect other peoples opinions aswell. I think this game is pritty much a cakewalk right now and that we need a higher difficulty level. But that dosent mean everyone else wants that.

[Volume]

I really dont know about you guys that say theyre "sneaky", "silent" and have a long &#! range.

I for one, who use a Logitech G35 Headset can hear them through doors and walls without a problem.

Also, they never "charge" at you without you haveing aggroed it. If you take off with the small ones first and just leave it/them behind you can easily isolate them.

If you get hit by their charge your playing the game wrong, you can run and gun in here, pritty much without a downside. You can also jump up on boxes which makes them not even beeing able to scratch you, ever tried that out?

Fighting over 12 Disruptors in Defense mode is easier than fighting 4 hordes of small Infected. Just lure them away from the pod so that the Toxic ones dont harm it, and then jump up on a box. Done, deal. They will just stand there doing nothing.

About the range, sure, its annoying, but knowing the deadzone where they cant do anything against you neglects this.

Also, you cant outrun or jump away from a charge? Just hit them in the face with a smash, and they stagger. ( Unless you use a broken melee weapon. )

Shields regenerate as fast as a salaryman on fire anyways in this game, so losing it dosent really do that much as the disruptors hits slow as hell. ( Unless you get simultaniously hit by a group over and over ofcourse, but then your fqed anyways. Shockwave Moas is even worse at this as they will keep knocking you down over and over even while your lying down. )

Them removing Energy is something I agree on though, its boring, but... well... its war.

Also, use your skills to the fullest, makes life easier.

Im NOT saying you guys's opinions are wrong, I fully respect them. But you have to respect other peoples opinions aswell. I think this game is pritty much a cakewalk right now and that we need a higher difficulty level. But that dosent mean everyone else wants that.

I find it interesting you didn't mention something that I find makes them a cakewalk to deal with: Freeze damage.

When hit by freeze damage, their "charge" animation is hilariously slow and you can seriously outrun them with a simple WASD or sprinting without speed mods. Their attack becomes incredibly slow and easy to avoid as well. It almost completely neutralizes the threat as long as you aren't standing still. I use the crate thing as well. Also dodge rolls actually help you avoid their attacks more than I expected them to.

[dotVelan]

I find it interesting you didn't mention something that I find makes them a cakewalk to deal with: Freeze damage.

When hit by freeze damage, their "charge" animation is hilariously slow and you can seriously outrun them with a simple WASD or sprinting without speed mods. Their attack becomes incredibly slow and easy to avoid as well. It almost completely neutralizes the threat as long as you aren't standing still. I use the crate thing as well. Also dodge rolls actually help you avoid their attacks more than I expected them to.

Exactly! I didnt mention it mainly cause I dont use Freezing Damage at the moment. I use a BRATON who kills a Disruptor at level 32 in about 4-8 seconds of constant fire to the face. Or i just stunnlock them after isolating them with my FURIAX. Also, as I'm a Loki i just use Invis and Decoy to controll them.

[dotVelan]

And mind you, even though you have your favorite build, you have your favorite weapon. Against certain factions other setups are better. Your a Tenno Agent mister, and you never engage unprepared. Infected? Freezing + Fire and a splash of Armor Pen on a STRUN/BRATON will take you FAR.

Fighting level 32 mobbs in the outer rings with low level weapons, is not recommended.

[Biggs]

Yes.

[dotVelan]

But back on the topic, yes they might need to be toned down when they come in large groups. But individualy theyre riddiculously easy to handle, although this differs form person to person.

If you tone them down, please, please make a "higher" difficulty level for people who wants that extra bit of challange. I don't mind beeing swarmed by 20 disruptors, I'd just see it as a fun obstacle to clear.

The game is about fun, and everyone has different merits to this euphoric state of happiness. ( What am I even typing here I dont know, fancy words sound cool although theyre probably waaaay out of context. )

[Gestalt]

Uhm, before putting a label on me, I cleared Xini and Terminus defense missions without pro'd weapons. Aswell as having them weapons at level 24 and 25. What makes you think im not casual? Can you even be pro in this game? I don't get your imagination.

And about beeing revived and still have secondary out dosent matter. You WILL run out of ammo at some point, and if you dont have a leveled secondary in the outer rings your going to be in deep S#&$. Unless your getting carried by someone else.

All I see is someone named "Iohntron39" whining about a mobb in a game, without actually trying to improve.

Made up rules? Never stated any rules, get off your throne of idiocy. I didn't attack you, I just simply said you should try doing some other missions since your obviously not geared properly for the outer-rings. Atleast with that setup, what do I know, you might have other weapons at higher level.

But fighting a HIGH mobb with LOW gear, is obviously going to be painful. Quite obvious isn't it?

And why go on the offensive against me right away? Can't you discuss without hostility? Or is the anonymous status on the internet your only refuge to point blame and avoid physical trauma?

Whoa whoa, calm the fandingo down partner.

At any rate, nobody is saying this game is impossible or even hard, just that certain difficulty mechanics are cheap instead of intelligently difficult. Cheap mechanics are unfun, and instead of implementing those, some people would like to see the devs come up with actually challenging enemies and mechanics. But of course, it's a small team and they've got their hands full on a lot of stuff, so we gotta be patient.

Also, the lastest dev-diary video with the Q&A said that they're working to bring out new challenges with update 7 that'll push the current top players out of their comfort zones, which sounds really exciting. Unless they mean now every enemy can stagger, even Grinners, with their bullets LOLOL~

[dotVelan]

Whoa whoa, calm the fandingo down partner.

At any rate, nobody is saying this game is impossible or even hard, just that certain difficulty mechanics are cheap instead of intelligently difficult. Cheap mechanics are unfun, and instead of implementing those, some people would like to see the devs come up with actually challenging enemies and mechanics. But of course, it's a small team and they've got their hands full on a lot of stuff, so we gotta be patient.

Also, the lastest dev-diary video with the Q&A said that they're working to bring out new challenges with update 7 that'll push the current top players out of their comfort zones, which sounds really exciting. Unless they mean now every enemy can stagger, even Grinners, with their bullets LOLOL~

This is true and I apologize, but if you read back, im not the only one at fault for bringing the topic off track. If he can not take other people voicing their opinions on this, why even bother posting on the forum. Does he think that everyone else thinks the exact same way he does? Sure does seem like it.

I agree the mechanic is kind of... lazy, and could be replaced with something more fun. But that was not what was beeing discussed at all.

[masterneilx21]

i don't think they are bad...look at it this way they force you to avoid or kill them quickly, having all enemies easy is no fun...and you can get away from a disrupter by standing on crates.......the disrupters are there to add spice to the game....my opinion

[Gaiters]

The disrupters are fine. They cannot take you out alone, but with the hoard they are very difficult. As others have mentioned it takes some tactics to kill these guys, but with practice it becomes pretty easy.

Not so long ago people were complaining that infested maps were too easy, I think the Devs hit the nail right on the head and made them a force to be reckoned with.

If you cannot complete a mission I suggest you choose a lower difficulty, or play co-op.

[[DE]jaywalker]

Thread cleansed...let's keep it tidy, please.

[Cakes]

Ran into a group of roughly 12 ancients on Eris-Sporid. First thing was clearing out the other stuff lurking around them. 8 disruptors and 4 toxics vs myself (melee Trinity) and an Ash. No supercharged weapons, supercharged warframes though. I made the poor decision to have a low level Boltor and Akboltos, so that wasn't going to be much help. Thankfully the Ash was blasting away with a Gorgon that I believe had a freeze mod. With that many ancients, the tactic we adopted boiled down to stun the ones in front, stun the ones trying to charge past the ones in front, and hope the penetration mods do their job before ammo runs out. Ended up doing sort of a slow backpedal melee while the Ash kept firing on them, took a good 3 minutes or so but eventually the ancients tripped and died. It was pretty chaotic, there were a few times where Link and Blessing defintitely kept us going because Lotus just had to say "Numerous biosignatures detected. We've got infected incoming." before half the ancients were even dealt with.

I've heard that shooting their boot makes them stagger away from you, which I have noticed happen most consisently when I unload a shotgun shell at it. Other than that, I don't really see a way to push the ancients away from a specific location to break up a beatdown circle aside from abilities like Push (Mag) and Switch Teleport (Loki).

[Khodos]

this is why i love having freeze damage on all my guns one shot slows them down to a crawl and you can stay well out of range, if they get close enough weith the slow from freeze they have a massive windup time and you can sprint away then roll to avoid it completly, and if they still hurt to much then jump up on something high wait for your sheilds to regen, then go back into the fray

[Gestalt]

This is true and I apologize, but if you read back, im not the only one at fault for bringing the topic off track. If he can not take other people voicing their opinions on this, why even bother posting on the forum. Does he think that everyone else thinks the exact same way he does? Sure does seem like it.

I agree the mechanic is kind of... lazy, and could be replaced with something more fun. But that was not what was beeing discussed at all.

No problem :3 It's always multiple parties going back and forth that gets things heated; my blood pressure went up by 50 just reading this thread lawl~ And some people just get frustrated with a certain part of the game, came onto the forum and decided to post a thread to vent, thinking most people would agree with them. Then when people don't, and just reply with "nah it's fine," that can be super frustrating for the OP.

I made a thread about getting leaper'ed + ancient'ed from full to death due to my Mag's Crush animation repeating bug, and people were just like "yeah well, Volt has that too *shrug*" I was pretty miffed too =__=

I've heard that shooting their boot makes them stagger away from you, which I have noticed happen most consisently when I unload a shotgun shell at it. Other than that, I don't really see a way to push the ancients away from a specific location to break up a beatdown circle aside from abilities like Push (Mag) and Switch Teleport (Loki).

Does it? I thought that's the specialty of HEK... Apparently with HEK you can hit them anywhere and it's an 100% chance stagger. Sort of makes facing ancients trivial -_-. I never bothered leveling a boar or strun, so I donno if it's a shotgun thing or a HEK-only thing :X

[TheMugbearer]

Worse than disruptors are only toxics at least because they are 'melee-proof'. But I simply hate Infected missions and when I need to do so I think something like "Oh God, why?" Infected needs more tweaks than even Corpus (I talk about those Shockwave Moas and Leech Ospreys). Everything about Infected is horribly unbalanced. Playing against Infected reminds me of playing first Dead Space with no good gun, no ammo and no credits.

Edited February 13, 2013 by CaptainGreyEdwars

[Madotsuki]

Playing against the Infested is a complete nightmare in general.

First off, the regular minions. A horde of runners coming your way. All it takes is ONE runner to reach you and explode, and you'll be stunned long enough for a chain reaction where the entire remaining horde of runners can also explode on you and there's no way of dodging it once you're stunned initially. The new chargers can be even worse. With almost twice the health of runners and leapers (based on the amount of shotgun blasts i needed to kill one), almost every hit from them results in a stagger, resulting in yet another stun-lock. Put a leaper into the mix, and you'll be knocked down and immobilized for even longer since it's not exactly easy to shoot one when you're surrounded by and trying to deal with a dozen chargers.

And then there's the Ancients. Ancient Disruptors, as already said in this thread, not only can take away all of your shields and energy in ONE HIT, they can also stagger-lock you, and has more health than a Grineer Heavy. Combine their shield zap with a horde and you're immediately dead. Secondly, the Toxic Ancient, which is completely melee-proof, and just allowing one to get close to you for even a second immediately takes away, like, 20 hp or something, regardless of shields or armour. And on defense missions, all one of those has to do is STAND THERE and do nothing and the cryopod just starts dying. And their spawn rate can be rediculous. The highest amounts i remember for Ancients, not on a defense mission mind, was a consecutive 8 Disruptors or 4 Toxics, or a combination of the two as well as Healers for a total of about 5 Ancients at once. One is not too big a problem. Two i can still deal with. Three even if it's just Healers. But as many as 4+ at once and its just wrong. Yes I know freeze damage mods make them a lot easier to deal with, but that's just in case there's one or at most two, and there're no other mooks present. And yes i know melee attacks can stun-lock them back, but again that only works for 1 or 2 ancients at once. And why doesn't the Fragor stun them? I can topple them with a jump attack, but not even a charged swing makes them flinch. Bug?

Not to mention that fighting the Infested is just not rewarding at all. Despite the sheer amount of enemy spawns on Infested missions, i generally get less xp on an Infested mission than i would on a Grineer/Corpus mission that's several levels lower. Ancients have more annoying abilities and health than a Grineer Heavy, yet i get several times more xp from a Heavy than i would an Ancient. Oh and for whatever reason Ancients appear to be immune to my Volt's abilities, which makes things worse.

I would definately agree to a nerfing of Disruptors and Toxics, as well as their spawn rate. On the other hand the Healer is a little bit underpowered but that's another story. Also i would really prefer if they brought the old chargers back, and use the new chargers as a different type of tougher enemy that spawns less often, even if they get a buff for it.

[Kaerakh]

they move slowly outside of the charge and you can easily stun lock them with melee.

Dont get close to them if there are too many others around.

This.

[BastyTHz]

they had long attack range and 360 degree with ripped all shield and en also diable for gaining en a periad of time, stun, knock down, wtf else... this is hell

should ancient having armor ? they shoudl have large amount of hp instead