3 Simple Questions For Developers (Livestream 13 Edition)

[Volt_Cruelerz]

You've seen it https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/93691-three-more-questions-for-the-devs-on-goals-and-implementation/'>before, and we've gotten some https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/91808-three-simple-questions-for-devs-on-goals-and-the-implementation-thereof/'>answers.  I understand I'm a bit late getting this up, so hopefully it'll get seen in time by Rebecca.

 

For new visitors, I'm trying to write non-inflammatory and non-accusatory questions that respect the vision of the developers by asking what their goals are on the game and how well they believe certain components have been implemented according to the standard of their vision.  Due to constraints of time, I attempt to keep it brief and in doing so attempt to narrow my view to what issues are affecting the playerbase most, what issues have ignited the forums, and which issues impede our ability to better serve the developers with our feedback.  I won't cover everything thing.  Indeed, you'll find I've made dozens of threads on subjects.  In fact, you'll not find a thread by me focusing on any one of these questions.  That's because there's a difference between feedback and this.  Here, we attempt to see the vision of the developers to understand what they want and how we can best assist them in turning that idea into a reality.  Everyone involved wants Warframe to be a success.  In some cases though, I fear that we may not be on the same page as the developers.  That is another thing I wish to rectify in my questioning.

 

If you see anything problematic please report in the comments.  I'm not trying to claim to know everything.  I'm just trying to do what I can to help by clearing up issues I've seen crop up again and again.

 

Question 1: What are your plans for armor?

We've heard previously that armor is getting a rework.  As one might note now, non-AI weapons have been tossed by the wayside both in gameplay and in discussion on the forums.  In a lot of ways, many of us feel a bit, well, lost when it comes to balance suggestions at the moment.  We know the system is getting a change.  Quite frankly, the exponential system didn't come out the other side of the level bump in one piece and needs fixing.  We all know this, but we don't know how and any feedback on balance at the moment is inevitably met with "We'll have to see how armor is after the rework."  I'm not asking for a detailed explanation of what you're going to do.  I'm just asking if you can provide any indications on where you're planning to go so that our feedback on balance can be of use.

 

Question 2: Does "Press 4 to Win" bother you, and if so, how do you plan to address it?

At the moment, there are a lot of issues with abilities and the balance between them.  Particularly, there are issues with the way that ultimates impact the game.  As a result, the phrase "Press 4 to Win" has cropped up.  While I'm not a huge fan of the expression, it does signify a mentality shared by a huge swath of the forumites (and likely by extension the playerbase at large) where pressing one button solves almost every problem in seconds with no repercussions and so is relied upon.  M-Prime annihilates anything low-mid level and softens up high-level targets.  Miasma vaporizes most enemies and stuns the rest.  Stomp stuns for an extended duration in addition to good damage.  You get the picture.  A lot of players have indicated that these make the game too easy and in some cases can cause severe imbalance (which of course is met with, "let's not do anything until after the armor rework").  Does this sentiment and the negative connotation on the forums associated with the corresponding playstyle bother you?  If so, do you have any ideas to address it?

 

Question 3: Do you plan to reward skill in Warframe to a greater degree than the current implementation?

Warframe in a lot of cases is either god-mode or impossible.  There is very little reward for skill at the game in its current implementation.  Projectile weapons, snipers, the Latron family, and to a limited extent the burst rifles are the only weapons which require any skill at all to use, and even then, it's not really much of a challenge.  The game itself has wall-running, but there's honestly not a lot of skill in that either, or at least, it isn't rewarded.  Stealth isn't rewarded at all.  Warframe is a numbers game.  You either have the numbers or you don't.  If you do, you obliterate the content.  If not, you just burn ammo against superior enemies.  The window in which skill matters at all is but a hair-thin line at the moment.  Many players have expressed displeasure and burnout related to the lack of rewarding skillful play.  Are you satisfied with the current preference for rewarding grind-time*RNG over skill in the vast majority of cases?  If not, how do you plan to widen the line to allow for more rewarding skillful play?

 

 

Thank you for your time.

Edited September 4, 2013 by Volt_Cruelerz

[DiabolusUrsus]

I agree with every single one of these questions, and want to hear them answered as well, but allow me to suggest an edit to your second question:

Would you consider re-examining Warframe ultimates, and reworking them to have greater usage diversity?

I'm not exactly a fan of the whole "press 4 to win" stereotype, simply because it turns the issue of ultimate abilities into terms of black and white. As far as I'm concerned, you should be pressing 4 to win an engagement. You just shouldn't be pressing 4 to win every engagement. An ultimate is an ultimate because it's your most powerful available skill. People will expect to get a high level of satisfaction when using their ultimate, and simply nerfing ultimate abilities is a hackneyed solution to ultimate-spams at best.

The ideal solution to the problem at hand consists of two things:
1. Implement some sort of limiter to ultimate abilities that prevents people from using their ultimates consecutively without highly restrictive modding, (read that as "your warframe isn't going to be good for much else,") and even then cap it at two consecutive uses. Of the already presented ideas, I'm a big fan of the Warframe heat-gauge system.

2. Rework existing Warframe abilities into more varied combat roles, with at least a minor contribution to team synergy. The idea behind this is to reduce the number of burst-damage ultimates, as well as turning them into something the whole party is glad to see, rather than a tool for hogging all the kills in a particular room to one's self. I'm not saying that I've got loads of ideas for this - I don't, and it's complicated. But such changes would go a long way toward changing Warframe ultimates from their current state of "press 4 and forget." One of my better suggestions was having Ash's Bladestorm cause enemies in an area around each target to fire in random directions trying to hit Ash as he warps around, taking pressure off of teammates and making up for Ash's lack of availability for revival during the ability.

[Volt_Cruelerz]

I adjusted the explanatory wording to hopefully be more clear that I am not being accusatory when I say that.

[-Kittens-]

huge swath of the forumites (and likely by extension the playerbase at large).

 

Nnnnope.

 

The actual metrics probably differ a great deal; especially in regards to performance and usage specifically in regard to effectiveness.

 

Forums say: OMG NOVA DOGS AND CATS LIVING TOGETHER

 

Actual player base numbers say: Nova good, use Nova

 

Forums say: OMG SIDEGRADES MUST BE ALL THINGS

 

Actual player base says: Despair >>>>>>>>> Kunai, period. I've seen two people with Kunai, and when I asked them why they were using them instead of Despair, the answer in both cases was "I don't have Despair"

 

Forums say: Supra is fine, just needs the new damage model in effect

 

Actual player base says: After the new car smell wore off, nary a supra to be seen, and back to more familiar loadouts

 

Forums say: Tunnel Hogger are jerks, shun them

 

Actual player base says: Hog tunnels, profit.

 

Forums say: playing ED long term shakes out WF damage and utility and makes opinions into facts

 

Actual player base says: wave 10, weapon is now maxed, k thx bai

 

 

Never assume you can speak for large numbers based on one point of view.

 

The most agreed upon thread has 400 upvotes.  Barely a nick in the actual supposed playerbase.

Edited September 4, 2013 by -Kittens-

[Volt_Cruelerz]

Nnnnope.

 

The actual metrics probably differ a great deal; especially in regards to performance and usage specifically in regard to effectiveness.

 

Forums say: OMG NOVA DOGS AND CATS LIVING TOGETHER

 

Actual player base numbers say: Nova good, use Nova

 

Forums say: OMG SIDEGRADES MUST BE ALL THINGS

 

Actual player base says: Despair >>>>>>>>> Kunai, period. I've seen two people with Kunai, and when I asked them why they were using them instead of Despair, the answer in both cases was "I don't have Despair"

 

Forums say: Supra is fine, just needs the new damage model in effect

 

Actual player base says: After the new car smell wore off, nary a supra to be seen, and back to more familiar loadouts

 

Forums say: Tunnel Hogger are jerks, shun them

 

Actual player base says: Hog tunnels, profit.

 

Forums say: playing ED long term shakes out WF damage and utility and makes opinions into facts

 

Actual player base says: wave 10, weapon is now maxed, k thx bai

 

 

Never assume you can speak for large numbers based on one point of view.

 

The most agreed upon thread has 400 upvotes.  Barely a nick in the actual supposed playerbase.

Pressing 4 to win is something that I've seen again and again in-game.  Now, the negative connotation that "press 4 to win" has is definitely on the forums.  I wasn't claiming the connotation extended to the playerbase.  I was claiming that the mentality that "press 4 to win" is prevalent among the section of the playerbase I've played alongside.  Of course I can't claim that the negative connotation extends to the playerbase in general, but I can say that it is "likely by extension the playerbase at large" when referring to a playstyle I've seen again and again and again.

 

Also, I have edited the OP to hopefully prevent similar confusion in the future.

Edited September 4, 2013 by Volt_Cruelerz

[neKroMancer]

While I share a lot of common ground with the OP, I think whatever DE going to do will burn them anyway. I want WF to hae more depth and better gameplay experience it deserves but many are going to disagree. This depends on DE's vision on PvE gameplay.

Is it going to stay purely for escapism?

is it going to be more skill-based?

Now that we have a forumite who proclaimed that he knows game metric and can read the mind of playerbase, I think the choice is clear.

[Volt_Cruelerz]

While I share a lot of common ground with the OP, I think whatever DE going to do will burn them anyway. I want WF to hae more depth and better gameplay experience it deserves but many are going to disagree. This depends on DE's vision on PvE gameplay.

Is it going to stay purely for escapism?

is it going to be more skill-based?

Now that we have a forumite who proclaimed that he knows game metric and can read the mind of playerbase, I think the choice is clear.

I can't tell for sure if the last line is sarcastic or not.  I'll assume it is.

 

I'm not trying to claim to know everything about what the metric is for a good game.  I'm just trying to focus on the bigger issues people see with the game.  You can tell on the forums that sometimes there is a desync between the developers and the players that are active on the forums.  I'm just trying to clear these up as best as possible.  On contentious issues, I'm trying to provide the developers to clarify their position.  As an example, people were complaining about Primes outdating normals.  I asked about it and Scott flatly said "No."  He wasn't worried about it at all.  While I disagreed with him, my goal wasn't to push them towards a particular viewpoint, but rather to see how they view particular issues the community sees.

 

Even when playing with random allies that never go on the forums, they still rely heavily on 4 almost to the exclusion of all else many times.  I'm not going to claim that I have a perfect random sample of the playerbase, but I feel like after several hundred hours that I've gotten a decent enough one to put me on grounds to suggest that there may likely be a trend over the entire playerbase.

 

Also, regardless of whether it was sarcastic or not, how does that make the choice clear between escapism and skill-based?

[neKroMancer]

My apology, Volt. I share the same point of view with you. The sarcastic remark was aimed at Kitten. Sorry for my ambiguous post.

Anyway, the real problem is the fact that the game has very little depth to explore compared to other dungeon crawler games. We have limited powers, we have no build for weapon and frame, we have no clear synergy between frames. DE is trying to make synergy a subtlety to explore but I doubt that is going to work. Players, most of us, don't notice subtlety, we appreciate blood and explosion as a result of synergy.

I believe that synergy is an alternative to the current 4spam dilemma. Most counterpoints that has been posted in the forum are about there are too many mobs to handle and 4spam is a solution. Surely, this point has merit. However, the problem is 4spam doesn't require teamwork and can be spammed indefinitely. Power synergy similar to tech/biotic explosion in ME3MP probably is the best way to deal with this situation.