How To Make Shotgun Crit Mods Viable Without Changing The Damage Output Of The Strun Wraith

[Tyrian3k]

This topic is not about buffing the Strun Wraith, but changing it in a way that doesn't affect its total damage output while buffing the crit mods to viable levels at the same time.

 

 

Let's first see what the crit mods do to the Strun Wraith right now:

 

The Strun Wraith has a base crit chance of 20%, which gets boosted by 90% with the crit chance mod to 38% crit chance.

The base crit damage is 175%, which gets boosted by 60% with the crit damage mod to 280% crit damage.

 

With 20% chance of 175% damage we have 115% total damage, which is the base damage of the gun with crit added on top.

With mods you have a 38% chance of 280% damage, which results in total of 168.4% damage.

 

With the mods added you only deal 1.68/1.15 = 1.46 times the damage you deal without the mods. That's a mere 46% damage increase for two mods.

Even the Grakata with its mere 7.5% crit chance gets a bigger damage bonus from crit mods than that, without even including Hammer Shot (52% to be exact).

The reason is simple: Shotgun mods are too weak to make a reasonable difference, rifle mods aren't.

 

 

With that said, let's look at what happens if we buff the mods to different levels:

 

With both mods maxing out at 90%, the damage bonus of both mods together would be 63%, which would make both mods individually about as effective as a Cleanse >Faction< mod.

 

If you'd go as far as pushing both mods to 120%, the damage bonus of both mods together would be 96%, which I consider to be the desired level of damage increase for two crit mods.

The problem is that this buff to the mods will also be a major buff to the Strun Wraith, which already is powerful enough as it is.

 

 

How to prevent the Strun Wraith from getting too powerful with the buff to crit mods:

 

Right now, with both crit mods applied, the Strun Wraith's average damage per shot is ~320. 

If the crit mods are both buffed to 120%, the Strun Wraith would deal ~428 damage per shot on average in its current state, which is a buff I don't really want, so we have to bring the average damage per shot back down to about 320, preferrably without lowering it's crit stats.

 

One way to achieve that would be lowering the base damage to 140. With both mods buffed to 120%, the average damage per shot would then be ~316.

 

Another way to achieve that would be lowering the base damage to 130 and buff crit damage to 200%. With both mods buffed to 120%, the average damage per shot would then be ~324.

 

That way, the Strun Wraith would not handle much different from before, but will rely far more on crit mods to deal its damage.

 

 

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to get into my bunker to escape the flamethrowers.

[Mainabi]

I like yellow numbers so I'm up for that

[LazyKnight]

I do not want to need critical to do damage and I am not interested in a wraith base reduction. This would only make 18 mod points and 2 slots mandatory and would be a requirement to forma 3 times.

 

I can honestly say if they made it 130-140 base and a critical damage gun I would vender it in 30 seconds. Please just push for the tenno shotgun to be a heavy critical chance whatever some people are enjoying the wraith.

Edited September 5, 2013 by LazyKnight

[Mainabi]

I do not want to need critical to do damage and I am not interested in a wraith base reduction. This would only make 18 mod points and 2 slots mandatory and would be a requirement to forma 3 times.

 

I can honestly say if they made it 130-140 base and a critical damage gun I would vender it in 30 seconds. Please just push for the tenno shotgun to be a heavy critical chance whatever some people are enjoying the wraith.

sidegrades would be nice, wraith = crit based that's how it should be

[LazyKnight]

sidegrades would be nice, wraith = crit based that's how it should be

Nope, if it was critical based it should have 250 damage and 20% so it can be like lanka. This side-grade crap is getting old critical damage is just bonus damage and nothing more.

[Mainabi]

Nope, if it was critical based it should have 250 damage and 20% so it can be like lanka. This side-grade crap is getting old critical damage is just bonus damage and nothing more.

Nope, if it was critical based it should have 250 damage and 20% so it can be like lanka. This side-grade crap is getting old critical damage is just bonus damage and nothing more.

if it should be critical based why sould it have high base/ be like lanka? it's like if you want to make a chocolatecookie it should be like a chocolatecake

[CaptainohCaptain]

This topic is not about buffing the Strun Wraith, but changing it in a way that doesn't affect its total damage output while buffing the crit mods to viable levels at the same time.

By cutting his very situational upperhand. I should slap you. Probably to death.

[LazyKnight]

if it should be critical based why sould it have high base/ be like lanka? it's like if you want to make a chocolatecookie it should be like a chocolatecake

The latron prime with the two critical mods gets 52% damage and 75% from all 3 . That critical bonus of shoguns are already in line with other weapons.

Edited September 5, 2013 by LazyKnight

[Mainabi]

The latron prime with the two critical mods gets 52% damage and 75% from all 3 . That critical bonus of shoguns are already in line with other weapons.

aaaaaaand?i dont understand what you want to prove or talk about the wraith has 20% critchance, that's intended DE wants us to crit with that shotgun

[LazyKnight]

aaaaaaand?i dont understand what you want to prove or talk about the wraith has 20% critchance, that's intended DE wants us to crit with that shotgun

Having a critical chance proves what exactly? It proves the gun is able to critical, it doesn't mean it is a requirement for the gun to be functional to be reliant upon the damage yielded from 2 mods.

[Mainabi]

Having a critical chance proves what exactly? It proves the gun is able to critical, it doesn't mean it is a requirement for the gun to be functional to be reliant upon the damage yielded from 2 mods.

20% compared to the 7.5% from the strun and 2.5% from.normal shotguns i think yes

and no i dont think anyone talked about it should rely on the crits but it should offer the crit way, diversity into crit thats needed since almost nothing is worth the crit build

[LazyKnight]

20% compared to the 7.5% from the strun and 2.5% from.normal shotguns i think yes

and no i dont think anyone talked about it should rely on the crits but it should offer the crit way, diversity into crit thats needed since almost nothing is worth the crit build

The critical build is already rather good for wraith. Critical damage is multiplicative getting 52% more damage is plenty, I already forma my wraith 2x and let no one tell you that the critical build is not viable.

[Tyrian3k]

The latron prime with the two critical mods gets 52% damage and 75% from all 3 . That critical bonus of shoguns are already in line with other weapons.

 

And now let's compare it to a weapon that is actually made for critting: The Lanka.

With Point Strike and Vital Sense we are already getting a damage bonus of 96%, with Hammer Shot on top it's 136%.

The damage bonus for the Strun Wraith isn't even half of the Lanka's bonus damage.

How is that in line with other mods?

[ZeroYinYan]

i think it will be the best to o this weapon a crit gun

[TunaMayo]

Don't forget that off host, strun wraith crits do no extra damage.

[LazyKnight]

And now let's compare it to a weapon that is actually made for critting: The Lanka.

With Point Strike and Vital Sense we are already getting a damage bonus of 96%, with Hammer Shot on top it's 136%.

The damage bonus for the Strun Wraith isn't even half of the Lanka's bonus damage.

How is that in line with other mods?

Because it is a shotgun and not a sniper rifle and it's fire speed is triple that of lanka . Shotgun mods are in line with pistol mods, melee mods, and rifle mods for non sniper weapon. If you want to raise the critical chance and or damage mod go for it.  Your suggestion force people to use 18 mods points and two slots if you want the critical mods buffed just ask for that.  Do not attach it to a nerf to the damage some people HATE weapon that can only do damage if and when they critical.

[Altey]

Ill always will say no to sidegrades. But  + to TS.

[Prii01]

 That's a mere 46% damage increase for two mods.

 

i disagree

 

with hells chamber/point blank/blaze/flechette/accelerated blast (which are the most useful mods on shotguns)

 

those 2 mods outclass everything you can add on the strun wraith

 

since you already have 210% elemental damage on your weapon this means only about 1/3rd of your damage is base damage adding a 11 point elemental mod would only increase your damage by 29% (this is reduced/increased by weakness/resists of enemy/faction)

 

seeing as your damage is split like 100% normal damage 60% fire damage and 150% AP damage and since you should always try to max base damage and AP damage that mere 46% you are talking about is in reality a HUGE 46% increase

[Tyrian3k]

i disagree

 

with hells chamber/point blank/blaze/flechette/accelerated blast (which are the most useful mods on shotguns)

 

those 2 mods outclass everything you can add on the strun wraith

 

since you already have 210% elemental damage on your weapon this means only about 1/3rd of your damage is base damage adding a 11 point elemental mod would only increase your damage by 29% (this is reduced/increased by weakness/resists of enemy/faction)

 

seeing as your damage is split like 100% normal damage 60% fire damage and 150% AP damage and since you should always try to max base damage and AP damage that mere 46% you are talking about is in reality a HUGE 46% increase

 

Judging from the stats of the SW, it has more potential to be a crit weapon than any other gun in the game, yet the damage increase for adding both mods is less than half of what sniper rifles get.

[Kinethia]

Judging from the stats of the SW, it has more potential to be a crit weapon than any other gun in the game, yet the damage increase for adding both mods is less than half of what sniper rifles get.

 

Sniper rifles are better for critical hits because they are sniper rifles. Rifles get better crit and base damage boosts, and shotguns get better multishot, elemental damage, and fire rate boosts. They are all cumulative with each other, so the total damage works out to be rather similar for both weapon categories at max level.

Edited September 11, 2013 by Kinethia

[Tyrian3k]

Sniper rifles are better for critical hits because they are sniper rifles.

 

Says who?

[Kinethia]

Says who?

 

Says the same authority which decided shotguns are better for multishot. It adds a thematic 'feel' when each category of guns has a slightly different order of priority for mod types.

 

And frankly, rifles make the most sense as a critical weapon, thematically. Criticals generally represent hitting especially sensitive or weak points, and as rifles are more accurate than pistols or shotguns, they are somewhat better suited to such fine targeting.

Edited September 11, 2013 by Kinethia

[Tyrian3k]

Says the same authority which decided shotguns are better for multishot. It adds a thematic 'feel' when each category of guns has a slightly different order of priority for mod types.

 

And frankly, rifles make the most sense as a critical weapon, thematically. Criticals generally represent hitting especially sensitive or weak points, and as rifles are more accurate than pistols or shotguns, they are somewhat better suited to such fine targeting.

 

Then why even bother making a crit shotgun if they refuse to go all the way with it?

[Kinethia]

Then why even bother making a crit shotgun if they refuse to go all the way with it?

 

It does go all the the way. The shotgun crit mods are essential for the highest possible damage per shot on a maxed Wraith build. They just aren't as high a priority as Point Blank, Blaze, Flechette, Accelerated Blast, and Hell's Chamber.

[Tyrian3k]

It does go all the the way. The shotgun crit mods are essential for the highest possible damage per shot on a maxed Wraith build. They just aren't as high a priority as Point Blank, Blaze, Flechette, Accelerated Blast, and Hell's Chamber.

 

It's not even as high priority as anti faction mods are...