To Help People Understand The Logic Of Changed In Patch 9.8

[icosta27]

People seem to be extremely confused here. What I say is not 100% proof nor am I speaking for DE in anyway. But some people, such as I can obviously see what's going on.. and applaud DE for the step on the right direction.

 

Patch 9.8

 

- Ammo Boxes taken out of game.

- Ammo dropping much less in-game.

- Health & Energy dropping much less in game.  (So it seems at least)

 

Why would they ever do this!?!?!?!?

 

Answer: The game is being changed, they have listened to all of our whines and complaints about the game being too easy and frames not being viable enough for anything. So what they seem to have done is create a method in which add much more value to individual frames.

 

Example: Trinity is now the bread and butter of health and energy regen.  (COMBO = Well of Life + Energy Vamp on a heavy unit = unlimited energy for whole team without having to shoot or worry about target getting killed.) <--- Much better than the old one.

 

Ammo drops/Boxes?

 

- Seems to me they have taken this out because it's a much too easy way to regain ammo AND since Necro's new skill increases loot gain, i'm guessing that (plus scavenger/ammo mutation mods) will be as important as they should be instead of just clicking a box and back to full ammo.

 

What they may replace it with? - Could be much smaller ammo boxes? 30-50 bullets? Not sure. But I understand it completely and i'm glad they are making things more difficult as well as making the useless frames useful. Except Volt... He's just a benchwarmer for me at the moment. Nevertheless..

 

Next up Vaubans "Nerf"

 

Bastile Count - People have been stating this has ruined the frame. Now, please before even commenting anymore on it. Get on warframe, get on Vauban, Start using Vortex.. and tell me how many times you even need to use Bastile.. nuff said on that one.

 

This thread is not to complain. If you are confused at a change. Post it and either myself or someone who understands it may reply and answer it. (The complaint / confusion threads I believe have gotten out of hand and can easily be rectified by keeping it in one area. IMO)

 

Thanks.

 

*Update --> (DERebecca Post) - https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/102882-last-chance-gear-faq/

 

1) What does it mean that there is "Last Chance" Gear?

 

We are overhauling the Gear system in Warframe. The current system of getting Gear needs to be updated.

 

2) What happens to my old Gear when the new system comes?

 

You will still be able to use all Gear - it will carry over to the new system.

 

3) Should I stock up on Gear while I can?

 

It's up to you. We will be making this type of content available in a different way in the new system, so it's not like you will never again be able to get Gear!

 

4) What is the new Gear system going to be?

 

We are eying the Foundry as the method of acquiring Gear.

 

^-- They are not taking ammo boxes out of the game. There you go.

Edited September 8, 2013 by icosta27

[wkfire]

Please Ctrl C + Ctrl V the OP to every complaint thread now

[VKhaun]

Except... not? ....the ammo and HP boxes stack in one slot now, and mods like ammo mutation and equilibrium mean that there's more available ammo and HP than ever.

[Eisvogel]

Please Ctrl C + Ctrl V the OP to every complaint thread now

 

 I like most of the things he said.... but the ammo boxes thing is a bit tad absurd. Mostly, the players on high end tier like us don't even need ammo boxes... and on top of that, we also have the ammo conversion mods.

 

Now, the new players..... you are telling me that this "difficulty" is starve them from ammo? lol...?

At this point, i am just waiting for update 10 and hoping really hard that it's not just another huge disappointment to look at with shame and embarrassment.

 

Also... i think i played with someone from your clan yesterday.... from the logo :3 :P

[darksithis002]

no, not less ammo boxes...

 

oh well, i can wait till update 10 to see how everything plays out. wish i could get other ammo mutations besides pistol tho (would love the sniper one or the rifle one, specially since i use the pistol one with the despair all the time).

[Mietz]

So instead of making the game actually more challenging they reduced our survivability and ammo gain.

 

GG

 

I call this lazy.

[icosta27]

Except... not? ....the ammo and HP boxes stack in one slot now, and mods like ammo mutation and equilibrium mean that there's more available ammo and HP than ever.

They are allowing stacks, yes. But all of the current ammo/heals are being taken out of the game shortly. The stacking will be used for whatever they may be coming out with next so you don't have to just have 1 on you, or keep re-clicking to put the item back on. Much needed update IMO

[icosta27]

So instead of making the game actually more challenging they reduced our survivability and ammo gain.

 

GG

 

I call this lazy.

Seems your playstyle = lazy in my opinion. Since there is a new frame, and multiple mods, that help with this issue. I find no problem at all with them taking this away. Plus I have a feeling they will still give us ammo boxes.. just not a full ammo 1 click kind.

Edited September 7, 2013 by icosta27

[Xylia]

Now, the new players..... you are telling me that this "difficulty" is starve them from ammo? lol...?

 

Oi......seriously?

 

As if Newbies needed the game to be any more Hell than it already was....

 

Are you trying to kill the game, DE? Seriously?

[Eisvogel]

So instead of making the game actually more challenging they reduced our survivability and ammo gain.

 

GG

 

I call this lazy.

 

 

Everything so far has been a lazy move... but i say we try to hold on and wait until update 10 arrives.... then we think if something changed for the better or if it's just more useless crap

[Lady_Khaos]

About the ammo and health:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/102882-last-chance-gear-faq/

[VKhaun]

They are allowing stacks, yes. But all of the current ammo/heals are being taken out of the game shortly. The stacking will be used for whatever they may be coming out with next so you don't have to just have 1 on you, or keep re-clicking to put the item back on. Much needed update IMO

 

That is not an argument for your point unless you assume you're right and the new ammo boxes are not the exact same items gained a different way...

[icosta27]

Oi......seriously?

 

As if Newbies needed the game to be any more Hell than it already was....

 

Are you trying to kill the game, DE? Seriously?

The game is really that hard for you? I didn't have an issue learning. In due time they will have tutorials to help with the gap i'm sure. But until then.. Youtube and Warframe wiki should be your best friend. IMO

[Xylia]

About the ammo and health:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/102882-last-chance-gear-faq/

 

That doesn't explain less drops while in-mission.

 

High-level players didn't care about ammo drops in-mission, but Newbies NEED that crap when they're still using their MK1s and their Latos.

[VKhaun]

How is the game 'hell' for newbies? Clearing the map was one of the most pleasant progressions I've ever had in a F2Play game my first time and after my reset. 

[Xylia]

The game is really that hard for you? I didn't have an issue learning. In due time they will have tutorials to help with the gap i'm sure. But until then.. Youtube and Warframe wiki should be your best friend. IMO

 

I'm talking about newbies who are new to the game, they already get swamped by 10-12 mobs per room on Mercury... they have to fight Commanders on Apollodorus, Napalms on Earth... and now they're being asked to do so with a lot fewer ammo drops?

 

LESS Health? God, Health is scarce already in Grineer Galleons.

 

I can do that stuff, sure. But what about newbies, who are the lifeblood of Warframe?

[Xylia]

How is the game 'hell' for newbies? Clearing the map was one of the most pleasant progressions I've ever had in a F2Play game my first time and after my reset. 

 

You did this before they nerfed how many ammo boxes and orbs dropped.

 

In fact, I'd wager a guess you cleared the map before they changed it in u9.

 

I bet Neptune was a hell of a lot easier at Lv15 than it is at Lv50, eh?

[Mietz]

Seems your playstyle = lazy in my opinion. Since there is a new frame, and multiple mods, that help with this issue. I find no problem at all with them taking this away. Plus I have a feeling they will still give us ammo boxes.. just not a full ammo 1 click kind.

 

Quite frankly i dont give a F***, I just find it lazy to reduce pickups instead of making the AI not &#036;&amp;*&amp;*#(%&amp; and challenging as well as adding interesting gameplay beyond equip AP weapon and faceroll over keyboard.

[icosta27]

How is the game 'hell' for newbies? Clearing the map was one of the most pleasant progressions I've ever had in a F2Play game my first time and after my reset. 

[Xylia]

Answer: The game is being changed, they have listened to all of our whines and complaints about the game being too easy and frames not being viable enough for anything. So what they seem to have done is create a method in which add much more value to individual frames.

 

Example: Trinity is now the bread and butter of health and energy regen.

 

Ammo drops/Boxes?

 

- Seems to me they have taken this out because it's a much too easy way to regain ammo AND since Necro's new skill increases loot gain, i'm guessing that (plus scavenger/ammo mutation mods) will be as important as they should be instead of just clicking a box and back to full ammo.

 

So basically, what, the lesson here is...

 

1). Always have a Trinity in the group or you're screwed,

2). Always have a Necro in the group so you can actually get loot again?

 

Why don't we just make it impossible to do a mission solo while we're at it? Might as well, at this point.

 

Yeah, I get the point that ammo and orb drops were causing massive lag in Defense, Mobile Defense, and Survival... but nerfing them across-the-board, INCLUDING in missions that were fine before? Seriously?

 

And the you mention Mutator Modes.... oh wait, those are EXCLUSIVES and absolutely NOTHING has been mentioned of them appearing in-game again yet. And then you mention Scavenger... lol. Yeah, you're supposed to dump Energy Siphon, Enemy Radar, Rifle Amp, all of those just to get ammo? lol.

 

With the health orb appearance nerf... we're supposed to choose between Rejuvenation or Ammo? lol.

Edited September 7, 2013 by Xylia

[icosta27]

So basically, what, the lesson here is...

 

1). Always have a Trinity in the group or you're screwed,

2). Always have a Necro in the group so you can actually get loot again?

 

Why don't we just make it impossible to do a mission solo while we're at it? Might as well, at this point.

 

Yeah, I get the point that ammo and orb drops were causing massive lag in Defense, Mobile Defense, and Survival... but nerfing them across-the-board, INCLUDING in missions that were fine before? Seriously?

 

And the you mention Mutator Modes.... oh wait, those are EXCLUSIVES and absolutely NOTHING has been mentioned of them appearing in-game again yet. And then you mention Scavenger... lol. Yeah, you're supposed to dump Energy Siphon, Enemy Radar, Rifle Amp, all of those just to get ammo? lol.

 

With the health orb appearance nerf... we're supposed to choose between Rejuvenation or Ammo? lol.

 

Ammo Mutation mods, Rifle Scavenger, Pistol Scavenger, Shotgun Scavenger, Sniper Scavenger, Necro's Abiility, Ammo is still dropping from mobs, Ammo boxes will still be in game.. just at a lower rate.(<--Most likely)

 

With that said. Even if you don't have a Necro, Even if you don't have the Exclusive Ammo mods. There are PLENTY of ways to increase ammo efficiency, if you still lack the issue with ammo with all of that. I think the issue here may be that holding down the left click button is not always the most viable way of shooting (rarely ever besides Gorgon). Try burst fire even on full autos such as Braton and others. That should be a no brainer, something that is a necessity and an importance. Ninjas don't carry 8 boxes of ammo full of 800 rounds of ammo. Do you have any idea how heavy that would be? It's lazy, it's not logical, and it creates easy gameplay as well as totally negates the purpose of Necros ability.

 

Accept Change, def in a beta..

Edited September 7, 2013 by icosta27

[Xylia]

Ammo Mutation mods, Rifle Scavenger, Pistol Scavenger, Shotgun Scavenger, Sniper Scavenger, Necro's Abiility, Ammo is still dropping from mobs, Ammo boxes will still be in game.. just at a lower rate.(<--Most likely)

 

With that said. Even if you don't have a Necro, Even if you don't have the Exclusive Ammo mods. There are PLENTY of ways to increase ammo efficiency, if you still lack the issue with ammo with all of that. I think the issue here may be that holding down the left click button is not always the most viable way of shooting (rarely ever besides Gorgon). Try burst fire even on full autos such as Braton and others. That should be a no brainer, something that is a necessity and an importance. Ninjas don't carry 8 boxes of ammo full of 800 rounds of ammo. Do you have any idea how heavy that would be? It's lazy, it's not logical, and it creates easy gameplay as well as totally negates the purpose of Necros ability.

 

Accept Change, def in a beta..

 

*rolls eyes*

 

Not everybody has awesome mods that make guns one-shot mobs. And with you needing to kill 200+ mobs a mission because they respawn CONSTANTLY, sometimes you can't even clear a room before more mobs are pouring into a room, you need more than 540 bullets in your rifle, even with burst fire and headshots.

 

And then there's health. With how often crap spawns behind you, and there are literally ZERO safe places to hide from all the damn Grakata fire everywhere, no matter which crate you get behind, you WILL need Health Orbs... oh wait, now less of them spawn!

 

Less Energy Orbs mean a lot less Warframe powers being used. Oh, nice.

 

All of these changes barely affect high-level players who already breeze through levels. Scott himself has said that the Newbie Experience needs attention, but yet they implement a change that makes newbies' lives a lot harder than before? WTF?

[VKhaun]

PSA: Hyperbole is not an argument or a substitute for a real point.

 

I have half a mind to just blame this whole derail to whining about ammo/orb drops on the rusher mentality that's taking over public games. I can't imagine placing my shots and using melee on some enemies, while looting lockers and breaking containers and still having ammo problems with normal weapons. I feel like the only way a rational person could say they have ammo problems or that noobies won't be able to craft ammo boxes is if they're skipping all the materials, ammo, and creds in the lockers and breakable containers +/- skipping some of the enemies.

[Xylia]

PSA: Hyperbole is not an argument or a substitute for a real point.

 

I have half a mind to just blame this whole derail to whining about ammo/orb drops on the rusher mentality that's taking over public games. I can't imagine placing my shots and using melee on some enemies, while looting lockers and breaking containers and still having ammo problems with normal weapons. I feel like the only way a rational person could say they have ammo problems or that noobies won't be able to craft ammo boxes is if they're skipping all the materials, ammo, and creds in the lockers and breakable containers +/- skipping some of the enemies.

 

You ever tried taking a low-level frame, and unmodded guns to a Grineer Galleon level? Seriously?

 

When do you have TIME to open all of those lockers when you are constantly under fire?

 

Corpus Ships aren't so bad, but My God, the Galleons... you can't take 5 seconds without something shooting at you, especially once you get to Earth. And once you get to Earth, that means Napalms, 5-6 per mission if you're lucky. Nearly 10 of them if you're not. And don't forget, Heavy Gunners are there too! These eat ammo like crazy.

 

On Mercury, you have Sawmen that are harder to kill than Lancers (they take nearly twice as many shots).

 

EDIT: And try to remember: RIFLE DAMAGE MODS DO NOT DROP UNTIL MARS/SATURN/JUPITER unless you get lucky in Vay Hek's level like I did, but once.

Edited September 7, 2013 by Xylia

[icosta27]

*rolls eyes*

 

Not everybody has awesome mods that make guns one-shot mobs. And with you needing to kill 200+ mobs a mission because they respawn CONSTANTLY, sometimes you can't even clear a room before more mobs are pouring into a room, you need more than 540 bullets in your rifle, even with burst fire and headshots.

 

And then there's health. With how often crap spawns behind you, and there are literally ZERO safe places to hide from all the damn Grakata fire everywhere, no matter which crate you get behind, you WILL need Health Orbs... oh wait, now less of them spawn!

 

Less Energy Orbs mean a lot less Warframe powers being used. Oh, nice.

 

All of these changes barely affect high-level players who already breeze through levels. Scott himself has said that the Newbie Experience needs attention, but yet they implement a change that makes newbies' lives a lot harder than before? WTF?

No, you don't. If you put in the effort to learn the builds, learn the mods, farm the mods, level the mods, learn each damage type, armor, elemental resistances & damage. You will not be on this forum complaining to me about this right now. Yes the learning curve is steep, I find it to be motivational to learn more and sometimes find things no one else seems to know about. That's what unique about this game. That's like saying in World of Warcraft we should have a potion that gives me MAX MANA at 1 click because my mana runs out when I attack things!!!! (Seeing how noob friendly that game is now i'm quite sure there is something like that) But point being, your complaining over accusations in which only one who doesn't try or puts in any effort would complain about. If you don't want to try, you can purchase everything you want. You don't want to try or purchase anything, then this may not be your game?

 

Also they clearly stated they are not taking ammo boxes out of the game. So not sure why people are still complaining about that lmao

Edited September 7, 2013 by icosta27