Dps - Ruins The Fun

[Arlayn]

I never argued that numbers are bad. I pointed out using empirical numbers don't make sense.

 

It's logical to say, "based on the number of this kind of creature we have seen, we can safely estimate it's health/ability to performe acitons at 100%". But to come up with an exact number for health and damage is just nonsense.

Why is it nonsense? ever heard of Deadliest warriors? we were able to estimate how much damage could be done with each weapon based on numbers collected from combat exercises... So why is it in the future thousands of years! After a Godly era where Orokin existed, and somehow a anti-matter wielding chick appeared... We don't have a better version of the system used in Deadliest warriors that gives us EXACT NUMBERS... if you think about Nova's warframe had to have a TON of numerical values involved in order to perfect it and make it do the amount of damage it does instead of destroy a whole planet...

 

Logically speaking since all logic is already broken by something that would take thousands of years to even perfect if it were even possible to master Anti-matter... why is it you say we can't have a system that gives exact numbers?

[honeybadger]

I never argued that numbers are bad. I pointed out using empirical numbers don't make sense.

 

It's logical to say, "based on the number of this kind of creature we have seen, we can safely estimate it's health/ability to performe acitons at 100%". But to come up with an exact number for health and damage is just nonsense.

A) Lets look at the definition of empirical, just so we are all on the same page:

empirical -- based on, concerned with, or verifiable by observation or experience rather than theory or pure logic.

This is a word most often used in engineering contexts to model things that have not been fundamentally understood yet.

B) So you are saying you want percentages instead of raw numbers? Well, those percentages are based on a raw number. Give me a percentage, one gun, and two enemies and I can start creating the raw health numbers based on an arbitrary unit that I will call...toasters. This gun does x% of damage to mob x and y% of damage to mob z. I can conclude that mob z has 5 toasters less health than mob y.

From there, its just a matter of collecting all of these relationships to refine your new Toaster unit. And soon enough, my Acrid will be dealing 153.6 Toasters per Second.

Edited September 12, 2013 by honeybadger

[MaxHardwood]

If you can accept "space ninjas" and all the other sci-fi silliness, then you should be able to accept advanced technology that can read empirical based damage displays, surely?

 

I can accept them because it's possible technology. Any type of damage display based on empirical data would have to be against something that is measurable. Attacking shields is measurable. Attacking living flesh isn't.

[Arlayn]

A) Lets look at the definition of empirical, just so we are all on the same page:

empirical -- based on, concerned with, or verifiable by observation or experience rather than theory or pure logic.

This is a word most often used in engineering contexts to model things that have not been fundamentally understood yet.

B) So you are saying you want percentages instead of raw numbers? Well, those percentages are based on a raw number. Give me a percentage, one gun, and two enemies and I can start creating the raw health numbers based on an arbitrary unit that I will call...toasters. This gun does x% of damage to mob x and y% of damage to mob z. I can conclude that mob z has 5 toasters less health than mob y.

From there, its just a matter of collecting all of these relationships to refine your new Toaster unit. And soon enough, my Acrid will be dealing 153.6 Toasters per Second.

Supporting

9% = 0.09

look I turned a percent into an exact number...

[honeybadger]

I can accept them because it's possible technology. Any type of damage display based on empirical data would have to be against something that is measurable. Attacking shields is measurable. Attacking living flesh isn't.

I think you have a bone to pick with any Pen and Paper RPG player.

[Zakalwe]

A) Lets look at the definition of empirical, just so we are all on the same page:

empirical -- based on, concerned with, or verifiable by observation or experience rather than theory or pure logic.

This is a word most often used in engineering contexts to model things that have not been fundamentally understood yet.

B) So you are saying you want percentages instead of raw numbers? Well, those percentages are based on a raw number. Give me a percentage, one gun, and two enemies and I can start creating the raw health numbers based on an arbitrary unit that I will call...toasters. This gun does x% of damage to mob x and y% of damage to mob z. I can conclude that mob z has 5 toasters less health than mob y.

From there, its just a matter of collecting all of these relationships to refine your new Toaster unit. And soon enough, my Acrid will be dealing 153.6 Toasters per Second.

 

Ahh, education.

[GottFaust]

I've felt this about pretty much any game you can "game" the numbers at. When you know exactly how much damage you're doing, how much life an enemy has and what mods boost, I find it ruins a bit of the game.

 

For example, by knowing every detail, there is in fact a perfect gun with the right mods, without a doubt, against a certain enemy. That means if you don't spend the time to know this stuff, you can't compete with the people who sit down and figure all the numbers down empirically.

 

In reality (I know this is a game), there is no life bar. There is no dps calculator. There is no "damage per second". There are ways to figure out which weapons are more powerful against certain materials though.

 

I'm not saying they should remove dps and enemy life, but it would be nice if it was unknown. Maybe this gun layout is better than this gun layout, but it's hard to say because there wouldn't be any actual numbers to base it off of. It opens the field for other weapons to be used more and balanced better. It doesn't make sense to know if an enemy has "1000 HP and requires 20 shots with x gun using y mods" but rather to know that certain enemies take a hell of a lot more damage before falling.

 

I know I can always disable the stuff on my side, but if that's your suggestion you didn't read what I wrote. This is just something that made me a bit disappointed to see in this game.

 

/rant

That all depends on your definition of fun. I find min-maxing my builds and customizing my gear extremely enjoyable...

[Eremes]

not knowing of the enemy weakness and health would simply increase the gap of power on those that crunch numbers and those who dont.

 

its honestly not hard to plot for warframe weapons. theres literally no variation. base damage + multishot+rof + all 4 elements with a 8th slot for whatever you want on any gun you have is endgame. dont wanna use orokin reactor? base damage + rof + armor piercing and you are as good as it gets.

[TwiceDead]

[Arlayn]

JEFF BRIDGES!!!

[MaxHardwood]

 

Of course it is! Isn't that the point of this forum?