The Market. And Why, In Its Current State, Will Be Warframe's Downfall.

[SlimShazbot]

Its fine. Keep in mind nearly everything can be obtained in game for free. DE needs to make money somehow.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Dude, those games after they are release it's done 90% of the time for content. What you bought is what you get and that's it.

This game continuously adds new stuff FOR FREE.

And when triple A games DO add more content 90% of that time they charge you for it.

 

If this was a packaged game you would probably would end up getting half of the frames half of the weapons for 60 bucks and anything else would be DLC for 20 bucks for each package. Void Package for Void Maps and prime weapons, hek, this last patch would be a DLC.

 

You are just looking at one thing and ignoring every single factor around it.

Again, showing price of weapons vs a full game.

 

Go on, try and tell me 4 weapons are equal a full game. Go on. Grasp at straws you silly person you.

 

Lets see, I can wait for discounts, spend $30 and get a frame and a stack load of slots and potatoes. I can then play the game for far longer than I play any AAA title. While I am playing I get another 5 frames and 30 weapons for free.

 

That is how it is well priced.

Just because you can earn the weapons for free doesn't make their cash cost suddenly fine. And if the price is only fine under a discount, then something is wrong.

 

 

Its fine. Keep in mind nearly everything can be obtained in game for free. DE needs to make money somehow.

Right, because if they price the weapons and frames well, they'll lose money. /sarcasm

Edited September 15, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1

[Mak_Gohae]

Again, showing price of weapons vs a full game.

 

Go on, try and tell me 4 weapons are equal a full game. Go on. Grasp at straws you silly person you.

 

Well, im not trying to convince you.....im just stating some information that should be taken into account.

 

The prices arent for you, the prices are for another audience.

If you are having trouble with a simple comparison and are only putting the value based on a number you will never purchase any number of weapons. So for you there is slots. For the people that dont mind dumping cash the prices are not going to matter.

 

This is what you folks dont understand, you folks that have a problem with the price will never buy enough weapons for DE to get a continuous cash flow because of THE NUMBEEEEEEEER! So lower the prices to satisfy your ideas is not going to do anything at all. There will be a rush to get whatever weapons you want but after a while that idea, "I bough enough weapons that equal the price of COD," will kick in and then you will stop until you can convince yourself to get more through some deal of whatever. Which is strange because i worked in a video game store and people constantly bough 60 dollar games and its very like you do to. You folks buy 60 dollar games that you can finish in 10 hours over and over and that's fine.... because it's a whoooole game......

Edited September 15, 2013 by Mak_Gohae

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Well, im not trying to convince you.....im just stating some information that should be taken into account.

 

The prices arent for you, the prices are for another audience.

If you are having trouble with a simple comparison and are only putting the value based on a number you will never purchase any number of weapons. So for you there is slots. For the people that dont mind dumping cash the prices are not going to matter.

 

This is what you folks dont understand, you folks that have a problem with the price will never buy enough weapons for DE to get a continuous cash flow because of THE NUMBEEEEEEEER! So lower the prices to satisfy your ideas is not going to do anything at all. There will be a rush to get whatever weapons you want but after a while that idea, "I bough enough weapons that equal the price of COD," and then you will stop until you can convince yourself to get more through some deal of whatever. Which is strange because i worked in a video game store and people constantly bough 60 dollar games and its very like you do to. You folks buy 60 dollar games that you can finish in 10 hours over and over.

"The prices arent for you, the prices are for another audience."

 

They should be for everyone, it makes no sense for DE to overprice weapons and frames. It can't help them, but go on, explain why it does. Pricing something for ONE audience in a video game is stupid, especially in a F2P, where people play because they don't want to buy a full price game (or atleast in one go)

 

"This is what you folks dont understand, you folks that have a problem with the price will never buy enough weapons for DE to get a continuous cash flow because of THE NUMBEEEEEEEER! So lower the prices to satisfy your ideas is not going to do anything at all."

 

Well, no. I might not spend $60 on weapons alone, but that doesn't mean 4 weapons in WF should be the price of a new game. But, if every single weapon was 50 to 75 plat and every frame was say 75 to 100 plat, I think I'd buy quite a few of everything I'm missing/don't want to farm for. Why? Because the prices would be reasonable enough. And I imagine a ton of other people would jump at the chance of well priced weapons + frames.

 

"There will be a rush to get whatever weapons you want but after a while that idea, "I bough enough weapons that equal the price of COD," and then you will stop until you can convince yourself to get more through some deal of whatever."

Maybe, but this doesn't mean they shouldn't price the weapons and frames well. If I thought I'd get my money's worth from $60 worth of weapons in WF, I'd buy them. If I felt like it saved me enough time/mats/whatever. I'd probably buy more than that actually, but whoever prices the stuff at DE is so bad at his/her job, that it's not gonna happen.

 

"Which is strange because i worked in a video game store and people constantly bough 60 dollar games and its very like you do to. You folks buy 60 dollar games that you can finish in 10 hours over and over."

Personally, I don't buy 10hr games, but yes some people do. However it's because they feel they can get their money's worth out of it, i.e. CoD's multiplayer, BL2's very replayable content, etc

 

My point remains, 4 weapons will never have a value of $15 At some point X weapons and/or + Y frame they will, but it's not 4 weapons/frames.

Edited September 15, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1

[Silvershadow66]

My point remains, 4 weapons will never have a value of $15 At some point X weapons and/or + Y frame they will, but it's not 4 weapons/frames.

 

That is your Opinion. Considering I bought my Frost using Plat your opinion does not extend to all players. To me that frame was worth the real money amount that I paid.

Edited September 15, 2013 by Silvershadow66

[KvotheTheArcane1]

That is your Opinion. Considering I bought my Frost using Plat your opinion does not extend to all players. To me that frame was worth the real money amount that I paid.

And you're in the minority, most people balk at the idea of spending $25 on ONE frame.

[Mak_Gohae]

"The prices arent for you, the prices are for another audience."

 

They should be for everyone, it makes no sense for DE to overprice weapons and frames. It can't help them, but go on, explain why it does. Pricing something for ONE audience in a video game is stupid, especially in a F2P, where people play because they don't want to buy a full price game (or atleast in one go)

 

 

If everyone could buy weapons no one would farming for them, which is tremendously easy now, and then there would be an epic cry for content which DE wouldn't be able to keep up.

 

This pretty obvious.

 

 

"This is what you folks dont understand, you folks that have a problem with the price will never buy enough weapons for DE to get a continuous cash flow because of THE NUMBEEEEEEEER! So lower the prices to satisfy your ideas is not going to do anything at all."

 

Well, no. I might not spend $60 on weapons alone, but that doesn't mean 4 weapons in WF should be the price of a new game. But, if every single weapon was 50 to 75 plat and every frame was say 75 to 100 plat, I think I'd buy quite a few of everything I'm missing/don't want to farm for. Why? Because the prices would be reasonable enough. And I imagine a ton of other people would jump at the chance of well priced weapons + frames.

 

So you agree with my point.

You just explained my exact point.... you know this, right?

 

"There will be a rush to get whatever weapons you want but after a while that idea, "I bough enough weapons that equal the price of COD," and then you will stop until you can convince yourself to get more through some deal of whatever."

Maybe, but this doesn't mean they shouldn't price the weapons and frames well. If I thought I'd get my money's worth from $60 worth of weapons in WF, I'd buy them. If I felt like it saved me enough time/mats/whatever. I'd probably buy more than that actually, but whoever prices the stuff at DE is so bad at his/her job, that it's not gonna happen.

 

So you agree with my point AGAIN.

All you are adding is that in your eyes the value isnt what you think should be but you need to think of the wider audience and not just yourself.

 

"Which is strange because i worked in a video game store and people constantly bough 60 dollar games and its very like you do to. You folks buy 60 dollar games that you can finish in 10 hours over and over."

Personally, I don't buy 10hr games, but yes some people do. However it's because they feel they can get their money's worth out of it, i.e. CoD's multiplayer, BL2's very replayable content, etc

 

My point remains, 4 weapons will never have a value of $15 At some point X weapons and/or + Y frame they will, but it's not 4 weapons/frames.

 

You whole point of your argument seems to be only your view while i have been talking about whole audiences. 

This went nowhere.

[ZukaBazuka]

No its not. The discounts allow you to get better rewards for money that you can spend anyway. You argument is like saying that a 50% sale offer at a shop is hurting the shop.

Well it is hurting them, but they have to get rid of stuff in the shop to make place for new stuff. They can't send back the item because they had it far to long so either its just throwing it away or selling it at half price. It also means they have to get customer to their shop if they have to resort to that kind of deal. All that happens is they get less money than previous. Who do you think have to pay for the 50%?

 

If DE can only get most of the people to buy platinum at 50-75% off the original price then yes they are losing money of it because we are not buying when we don't have those. How often do you get those? Once a year if you are a lucky,

 

 

Micro transaction are solely for impulse payment. It took off in the mobile market and the prices where often under 1$ dollar or less for stuff. Hence the name Micro transaction. They wanted people to look at the shop and go "Oh its not that much really and it helps me with the game". Its not built for those with little time. Its built to suck you dry of money little by little.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

If everyone could buy weapons no one would farming for them, which is tremendously easy now, and then there would be an epic cry for content which DE wouldn't be able to keep up.

 

This pretty obvious.

They already can't... farming for weapons/frames would STILL be farmed for.

 

 

 

So you agree with my point.

You just explained my exact point.... you know this, right?

"If they were well priced." They are not.

 

 

So you agree with my point AGAIN.

All you are adding is that in your eyes the value isnt what you think should be but you need to think of the wider audience and not just yourself.

Well, according to the number of threads like this, I think I am. Are you HONESTLY trying to say most of the community is fine with the plat price is fine on weapons + frames?

 

 

You whole point of your argument seems to be only your view while i have been talking about whole audiences.

Ayiyiyi. No, you've been going "People buy $60 games, therefore you're wrong."

 

This went nowhere.

Because you are DEfense force. Anything DE does, or says, you're there to go "IT'S FINE, IT'S FINE!" OF COURSE this goes nowhere.

F*** it, I'm done trying to reason with you Mak, you're always DEfense force, there's not a single subject where you haven't gone "DE iz gud, they dun fine."

[Mak_Gohae]

They already can't... farming for weapons/frames would STILL be farmed for.

 

If the prices are for "everyone" as you suggest..... why would anyone be farming?

Outside of people trying the game out, if prices where for EVERYONE, EVERYONE would be buying stuff.

 

Seriously... can i get a clear explanation of you version of the game?

Cause it just doesnt make any sense.

 

[quote]"If they were well priced." They are not.

 

You just keep posting this without even reading with what i said now?

That quote explains that the line where people stop buying will just be moved a bit further along which isn't going to help DE because you folks will STILL compare it you packaged games and still stop buying at some point. That does nothing but have a small influx and thats it.

 

Well, according to the number of threads like this, I think I am. Are you HONESTLY trying to say most of the community is fine with the plat price is fine on weapons + frames?

 

Dude, there are a handful of threads like this. There are more threads about scarves EASY.

 

Ayiyiyi. No, you've been going "People buy $60 games, therefore you're wrong."

 

I never said that.... do you even read what i post?

I said that i find it funny for people to spend 60 week after week on a packaged game but they have a problem spending the same amount on a F2P game simply because it says it's F2P. This whole argument is simply about labels.

 

 

 

F*** it, I'm done trying to reason with you Mak, you're always DEfense force, there's not a single subject where you haven't gone "DE iz gud, they dun fine."

 

There are plenty of subjects i dont agree with, the new smaller fonts for mods are a pain,  i didnt see a point in fixing the last wallrunning room in the galleon, and im not really liking the new Grineer voices either, i think im going to make a post about that. You dont see them so therefore they dont exist. Hek, Nova is OP, i've said this, but since most people are complaining about that.... i dont see the need to add that much there.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

 

If the prices are for "everyone" as you suggest..... why would anyone be farming?

Aside from the people who don't want to buy plat? Or those who don't want to buy more? Or those who have plenty of mats?

 

Outside of people trying the game out, if prices where for EVERYONE, EVERYONE would be buying stuff.

OH NO! People would buy some of the things they want at a reasonable price! OH NO! DE would earn money which they could use to improve their game!

 

Seriously... can i get a clear explanation of you version of the game?

Cause it just doesnt make any sense.

Right, wanting reasonable prices is crazy. What's your version of the game? My version is having the option to farm the weapons if you want to, OR buy them at a decent price. 

 

 

"If they were well priced." They are not.

 

You just keep posting this without even reading with what i said now?

That quote explains that the line where people stop buying will just be moved a bit further along which isn't going to help DE because you folks will STILL compare it you packaged games and still stop buying at some point. That does nothing but have a small influx and thats it.

"small influx" right. You're forgetting the new players who join, and think "huh, $10 for 2-3 weapons? that's not too bad.", etc. It'd be FAR more than a small influx, because the prices would be encouraging more people to buy plat to buy more than cosmetics, slots, and maybe potatoes.

 

Dude, there are a handful of threads like this. There are more threads about scarves EASY.

Your point is? There are more threads saying plat is overpriced, than plat is well priced. There are more threads about plat being overpriced, than the new voices for the grineer. What's your point?

 

I never said that.... do you even read what i post?

It's a summary/in a nutshell

 

I said that i find it funny for people to spend 60 week after week on a packaged game but they have a problem spending the same amount on a F2P game simply because it says it's F2P. This whole argument is simply about labels.

No, it's not about labels. What do you get with a $60 game? A FULL game. What do you get with $60 in WF? 4 weapons. See the difference? It's not about labels.

[SergeantHam]

The price is obviously not for people who are complaining about it.

F2P game doesnt mean free or cheap items, F2P means that there is a section that is free.

 

How can you defend the clearly overinflated prices? do you not see an issue with them? I purchased the masters pack knowing dam well what i was getting into but with that said the prices of weapons/frames are atrocious.

[shut]

Its fine. Keep in mind nearly everything can be obtained in game for free. DE needs to make money somehow.

See, that's the problem. Not that everything can be obtained for free, but more so that people who are loaded with Platinum will craft things for free rather than spend a crapton of Platinum for a weapon.

The price of new weapons and Frames is simply too daunting to encourage anyone to buy them, which is why DE makes so little money off them and has to resort to what they did with this update.

Edited September 15, 2013 by SortaRandom

[Mak_Gohae]

How can you defend the clearly overinflated prices? do you not see an issue with them? I purchased the masters pack knowing dam well what i was getting into but with that said the prices of weapons/frames are atrocious.

 

If there is a free option what is the issue? If DE is making money with the current prices what is the issue?

The issue all of these price discussions bring up is, "I want them to lower the price to a value where my skewed perspective of value agrees."

The discussion doesnt have anything to do with a market plan where DE has a constant cash flow and can continue to produce this game.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

If there is a free option what is the issue? If DE is making money with the current prices what is the issue?

The issue all of these price discussions bring up is, "I want them to lower the price to a value where my skewed perspective of value agrees."

The discussion doesnt have anything to do with a market plan where DE has a constant cash flow and can continue to produce this game.

Who says they're making money off the weapons and frames? They make money once you buy plat, not once you buy the frame. And even so, they could be making MORE with reasonably priced weapons. If a weapon cost $5, instead of $15, I'm sure more people would buy it. It might not happen instantly, but it would be better.

[Mak_Gohae]

Who says they're making money off the weapons and frames? They make money once you buy plat, not once you buy the frame. And even so, they could be making MORE with reasonably priced weapons. If a weapon cost $5, instead of $15, I'm sure more people would buy it. It might not happen instantly, but it would be better.

 

If the prices where a problem this would have been fixed a long time ago. Do you really think this company, who is self publishing and says the P2P connection was used cause they have no cash for servers, is really going to leave a market plan that gives them nothing for an extensive period of time?

 

 

Plus you idea that if they lower the prices it  will give them more money fails when your excuse for the current prices being bad is that it costs the same as a packaged game for a the purchase a few items. If that line of thought exist for the current prices it will still exist for the lowered prices which STILL limit the number of purchases made. Your argument destroys itself. A few more items will be bought but then the complaining about that price will pop up again.

[Spammie]

Well i spent 15Euros got slot for warframe and weapons, I'll never ever spend a cent in this game, overpriced S#&$, is like DE doesn't have a market deparment and they make up the prices on the spot ...

[KvotheTheArcane1]

If the prices where a problem this would have been fixed a long time ago. Do you really think this company, who is self publishing and says the P2P connection was used cause they have no cash for servers, is really going to leave a market plan that gives them nothing for an extensive period of time?

Again, because you missed it

 

They make money once you buy plat, not once you buy the frame

And I'm sure they make plenty off of slots/forma/potatoes/rushing builds

 

 

Plus you idea that if they lower the prices it  will give them more money fails when your excuse for the current prices being bad is that it costs the same as a packaged game for a the purchase a few items. If that line of thought exist for the current prices it will still exist for the lowered prices which STILL limit the number of purchases made. Your argument destroys itself. A few more items will be bought but then the complaining about that price will pop up again.

Alright, lets compare it to other games. Again. Since you forgot I did this already.

TF2: $60 can get you most of the weapons in the game, compared to the 4 from warframe.

LoL: Champs on average are $7.50, not the best, but that's the AVERAGE (last I checked), and is still better than WF. Also, plenty of champs are far more than $7.50, and plenty are under $7.50. For $10 I can up to 5 champs, while in WF, I can get 2 weapons/frames if they cost the lowest amount (75 plat) for $10.

 

There you go, my argument about 4 weapons equaling the price of a AAA title, was just an example of how overpriced the WF market is.

Your argument is "DE would have changed the market already." When in the last livestream (12 I think) Steve said "the people who could work on the market, are people who are working on the armor system."

[Silvershadow66]

Well it is hurting them.

 

And you have evidence for this?

 

The evidence that it is not hurting them is that the prices have not gone down. DE, like any company, watch the sales numbers carefully and they DO track what is bought as well as how much platinum is bought. If prices were too high on certain items to attract the right number of purchases then they would be lowered slightly or DE would be offering everyone a discount prices on some items.

 

Prices have not been adjusted so the sales have been sufficient to meet the targets DE want.

 

 

but they have to get rid of stuff in the shop to make place for new stuff. They can't send back the item because they had it far to long so either its just throwing it away or selling it at half price. It also means they have to get customer to their shop if they have to resort to that kind of deal. All that happens is they get less money than previous.

 

Any evidence for this? You are wrong from the start because there is no "old" stuff, F2P games have a constant influx of new players and they will buy the cheaper "old" items as well as the newer items. Some players will buy the old item purely because it is there and they want to try everything but don't want to farm for it.

[Kato-san]

Soma is a tier of its own though, its the best rifle in the game atm, so why not cost more?

[Mak_Gohae]

Again, because you missed it

 

And I'm sure they make plenty off of slots/forma/potatoes/rushing builds

 

 

Stuff that cost a lot of plat means you got to get more.

2+2=4

 

 

Alright, lets compare it to other games. Again. Since you forgot I did this already.

TF2: $60 can get you most of the weapons in the game, compared to the 4 from warframe.

LoL: Champs on average are $7.50, not the best, but that's the AVERAGE (last I checked), and is still better than WF. Also, plenty of champs are far more than $7.50, and plenty are under $7.50. For $10 I can up to 5 champs, while in WF, I can get 2 weapons/frames if they cost the lowest amount (75 plat) for $10.

 

There you go, my argument about 4 weapons equaling the price of a AAA title, was just an example of how overpriced the WF market is.

Your argument is "DE would have changed the market already." When in the last livestream (12 I think) Steve said "the people who could work on the market, are people who are working on the armor system."

 

Will some one trying to prove a point about some Warframe mechanic ever have the foresight to not compare it some some other game with a huge backing behind it?

[KvotheTheArcane1]

And you have evidence for this?

 

The evidence that it is not hurting them is that the prices have not gone down. DE, like any company, watch the sales numbers carefully and they DO track what is bought as well as how much platinum is bought. If prices were too high on certain items to attract the right number of purchases then they would be lowered slightly or DE would be offering everyone a discount prices on some items.

DESteve has said, the people who could work on the market, are instead working on the armor issue (a more pressing issue, as they ARE making enough money from slots/cosmetics/etc)

[Silvershadow66]

The price of new weapons and Frames is simply too daunting to encourage anyone to buy them, which is why DE makes so little money off them and has to resort to what they did with this update.

 

Again...Evidence for this? I bought Frost, so its not too daunting for "anyone to buy them".

 

You have nothing other that your own wishful thinking to back up your claim. If DE was making so little money off them they would lower the prices so that more people would buy them.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Stuff that cost a lot of plat means you got to get more.

2+2=4

What? More expensive items mean more in ONE purchase, but I don't see your point here.

 

Will some one trying to prove a point about some Warframe mechanic ever have the foresight to not compare it some some other game with a huge backing behind it?

There aren't many F2Ps that don't have big backing behind it, and SO WHAT? Even if they didn't have big backing behind it, why does that mean they only have reasonable prices because of the big backing? FFS man, make a real argument, or admit you're wrong. I gave F2Ps that do it right, and you come up with "but they have big backers!"? Try again with a REAL argument.

[Silvershadow66]

DESteve has said, the people who could work on the market, are instead working on the armor issue (a more pressing issue, as they ARE making enough money from slots/cosmetics/etc)

 

I'd like to see where he said that because I bet he was talking about those people not working on the mechanics of the market (e.g. the UI) and was not talking about the prices. In any case that only applies to the last month or so. Do you really think that the person who handles the financial side of DE's business has done no analysis of sales since the cash shop started?

 

 

What? More expensive items mean more in ONE purchase, but I don't see your point here.

 

You really are in denial. Your argument is equivalent to saying that people don't put more money on a prepay card when they plan to buy more expensive things with it.

 

People buy plat to buy in game items, if they want to include a more expensive item they buy more plat. So yes they are buying those items with cash.

Edited September 15, 2013 by Silvershadow66