Please Stop Slash & Burn Game Design

[notionphil]

When each new update and every piece of content threatens to instantly de-value and trivialize your entire aresenal, investing real-world time and money into Warframe becomes a risky proposition.

 

Think of all of the players who spent plat to purchase void keys specifically to farm the iconic Bratton Prime, which was instantly outclassed by the credit-buyable Soma.

 

Think of the money spent inserting catalysts into Heks, Boars and Struns which are now wholly deprecated by the Strun Wraith which was literally given away to essentially anyone wanting it, free.

 

Not to mention the formas and time spent upgrading these weapons out of a desire to see them stronger - replied to by Warframe with an impetuious chuckle, threatening that more new 'content' is right around the corner. Enjoy your Soma. Remeber, a Prime could come at any time, says DE with a wink.

 

Content that makes other content trivial or useless is 'destructive content'.

 

New weapons and frames that outclass old weapons are replacements. They don't make the game world bigger. They don't give you more fun, tactical options or immersion. They simply give you a momentary diversion, and a warning that every minute and dollar you spend in effort to enhance your Tenno's overall performance is subject to nullification, in the immediate future, on a whim and without a reason.

 

Constructive content gives us new things to do. It makes Warframe a bigger, better place.

 

Nekros is constructive content. He is different without being inherently better. The Boar prime is content. Conclave is certainly content (for pvpers). And Golem + Derelict key system, hell, that is constructive content (if used as a new system of mission discoveries)

 

Please keep up the constructive content. Create mechanisms to preserve the time/money we spend - upgrading to prime etc. Most importantly, STOP the linear destructive content.

 

I can't speak for others, but it makes me personally less likely to 1) spend money, 2) forma gear 3) catalyze equipment and most importantly 4) care about Warframe.

Edited September 17, 2013 by notionphil

[Neronicify]

they most earn money for it so....

[Noctal]

RING OF NARNIA!

[Sekkeisha]

No one has to buy Platinum.

 

Balancing a game + creating unique content at the same time is VERY difficult!

 

It is still Open Beta and we have a long way to go until it's not beta anymore. Until then, they work on balancing the game + adding new content.

 

Be patient. Embrace the future.

[immolator1001]

I think you have a good point but need to remember eventually they wont be able to add new stuff that doesn't beat old content. And its not like they can only release bad or equal stuff because I don't want a new crappy pistol I want a new awesome one.

[TectonicKnight]

Its not "slash and burn game design", its called power creep, and its typical of poorly designed F2P games. Devs keep making new content that needs to sell in order for the game to stay afloat, how do they ensure it sells? Make it vastly outclass the previous content. Doing this totally ruins the balance of the game, if this was a PvP oriented game it'd be vastly more noticable. Coincidently, the PvP we do have requires you to strip off your most powerful gear. Gee, I wonder why.

[notionphil]

I think you have a good point but need to remember eventually they wont be able to add new stuff that doesn't beat old content. And its not like they can only release bad or equal stuff because I don't want a new crappy pistol I want a new awesome one.

 

Your new pistol could be awesome because it does something different, not because it does all of the same things (deal damage), but better.

 

Maybe it fires through walls innately.

Maybe it knocks enemies down when shooting their legs.

Maybe it can change damage types on the fly.

Maybe it can charge up a shot.

Maybe it deals massive damage on headshots only

Maybe it has a different firing mode when zoomed in

 

Maybe its actually creative and doesnt just have bigger numbers attached to it

Edited September 17, 2013 by notionphil

[Hezekiah]

The weapons will continue to get better, the once "ultra" Hek will be replaced, just like the Gorgon was by the supra.  The point is that the Gorgon is relatively easy to get, not much effort, but getting a supra took me a month.  

 

I am all for new and more powerful frames and weapons added, as long as they continue to refine the existing content as well.  

[notionphil]

The weapons will continue to get better, the once "ultra" Hek will be replaced, just like the Gorgon was by the supra.  The point is that the Gorgon is relatively easy to get, not much effort, but getting a supra took me a month.  

 

I am all for new and more powerful frames and weapons added, as long as they continue to refine the existing content as well.  

 

Yes, and if the Ultra Hek requires that you kill 99 bosses in 99 seconds and farm the universe for drops, a task commersurate with its power, that is fine.

 

But my concern is that more likely the Ultra Hek will be given out to all players in a random weekend event, or buyable for credits.

[Zakalwe]

Your new pistol could be awesome because it does something different, not because it does all of the same things (deal damage), but better.

 

Maybe it fires through walls innately.

Maybe it knocks enemies down when shooting their legs.

Maybe it can change damage types on the fly.

Maybe it can charge up a shot.

Maybe it deals massive damage on headshots only

Maybe it has a different firing mode when zoomed in

 

Maybe its actually creative and doesnt just have bigger numbers attached to it

Yep, while there will always be clear cut better items, each weapon should have a personality and functionality that sets it apart.

[NIL0S]

I concur with OP

[nakatotaiyou]

completely agree with this... i hate new content  that make the old ones useless, for example strun wraith... i dont need or want more stuff like this. just as the op suggested, just make them unique, not completely outclass previous ones, and if you cant do that just bring new content in another area for now... 

[litlit]

Agreed. Slash-and-burn design might seem profitable in the short term, but in the long-term it's unhealthy for the game as a whole.

[notionphil]

Its not "slash and burn game design", its called power creep, and its typical of poorly designed F2P games. Devs keep making new content that needs to sell in order for the game to stay afloat, how do they ensure it sells? Make it vastly outclass the previous content. Doing this totally ruins the balance of the game, if this was a PvP oriented game it'd be vastly more noticable. Coincidently, the PvP we do have requires you to strip off your most powerful gear. Gee, I wonder why.

 

Power Creep is a symptom of Slash-and-Burn game design. An example of Power creep is when a new weapon has better stats than the old, making it a direct upgrade.

 

Slash and Burn is when the weapon you spent 30 hours and $5 attaining is now outclassed by a weapon that is free and given to all new players. It's far worse than plain power creep.

 

Making the Soma, for example, mastery 10 and cost 1M credits would be power creep. That's bad, but not as bad as making the highest DPS rifle in the game available to all players instantly, which is what DE has done.

 

Thus, slashing-and-burning all the in-line content that came before and making your time investment worthless, as all can now attain greater results with far less effort.

 

Slash-and-burn also implies that one is starting over. As in, the next starter rifle that DE makes will have to be BETTER than the Soma in order to be used, which is already better than everything else. So we've essentially reset our entire rifle arsenal with Soma as the baseline.

Edited September 17, 2013 by notionphil

[Aure7]

No one has to buy Platinum.

 

Balancing a game + creating unique content at the same time is VERY difficult!

 

It is still Open Beta and we have a long way to go until it's not beta anymore. Until then, they work on balancing the game + adding new content.

 

Be patient. Embrace the future.

they could learn that from valve (tf2) I am very serious.

[syle]

dat open beta argument ... lol

but hey we will charge you like its not huehuehue

[litlit]

dat open beta argument ... lol

but hey we will charge you like its not huehuehue

 

It's like there's a plague that infects people and makes them act like children, expecting a pat on the head after interrupting an adult conversation to say something obvious

Edited September 17, 2013 by litlit

[Eggus]

You gotta give players something to work for. By releasing weapons that is of equal/less power wouldn't push players to go and get them.

 

What's the point of acquiring a equal-power weapon if I have this one? Aesthetics? Is it worth the grind?

 

Though I do get your point, new weapons and warframes must be "delicious" enough for players to grind them.

 

P.S. I wouldn't mind grinding for a uber-cool looking weapon with the same stats though.

[MeteorKing]

they could learn that from valve (tf2) I am very serious.

Tf2 doesn't have leveling up, resistances (barring a few weapons), or damage type multipliers (barring a few weapons), additionally weapons are restricted to their respective class, and its a PVP game. So its difficult to compare the two, but I 100% understand what you mean.

2 guns functioning the same way with one being an upgrade of the other is not the way to do things.

[litlit]

It's been thoroughly proven that cosmetics do sell. Equipment doesn't have to have better stats for players to grind hundreds of hours for it.

[notionphil]

You gotta give players something to work for. By releasing weapons that is of equal/less power wouldn't push players to go and get them.

 

What's the point of acquiring a equal-power weapon if I have this one? Aesthetics? Is it worth the grind?

 

Though I do get your point, new weapons and warframes must be "delicious" enough for players to grind them.

 

P.S. I wouldn't mind grinding for a uber-cool looking weapon with the same stats though.

 

read my post about "the different pistols" above.

 

[NIL0S]

Your new pistol could be awesome because it does something different, not because it does all of the same things (deal damage), but better.

 

Maybe it fires through walls innately.

Maybe it knocks enemies down when shooting their legs.

Maybe it can change damage types on the fly.

Maybe it can charge up a shot.

Maybe it deals massive damage on headshots only

Maybe it has a different firing mode when zoomed in

 

Maybe its actually creative and doesnt just have bigger numbers attached to it

Quoting it on second page because i think it has a lot of merit, not just for pistols, but Warframe's design philosophy in general.

Edited September 17, 2013 by NIL0S

[Eggus]

Your new pistol could be awesome because it does something different, not because it does all of the same things (deal damage), but better.

 

Maybe it fires through walls innately.

Maybe it knocks enemies down when shooting their legs.

Maybe it can change damage types on the fly.

Maybe it can charge up a shot.

Maybe it deals massive damage on headshots only

Maybe it has a different firing mode when zoomed in

 

Maybe its actually creative and doesnt just have bigger numbers attached to it.

I don't think we will see that happening anytime in the near future. Firstly, giving pistols(or any other type of weapon) their own abilities might create some balance issues. Secondly, isn't that the mods' job, to provide special upgrades and abilities?

 

Nevertheless, it seems like a feasible option. +1

[NIL0S]

I think what is meant would be to give weapons more character to be desirable instead than just higher numbers, encourage variety over plain statistical improvement that in turn invalidates anything players have worked / paid for previously.

I.E. lets say you have Torid, don't just make another poison grenade launcher but more powerful, make a napalm grenade launcher that does a similar thing but with innate fire damage, make a mine launcher that has a delayed explosion, this sort of thing.

Edited September 17, 2013 by NIL0S

[Valiant]

It is still Open Beta

This point is becoming quite tiresome and weak now.