Dont Make Old Weapons Weak. [Updated]

[Vladokapuh]

Dont release new weapon as much stronger. Some people including me like older weapons, you should make newer and higher tier weapons have more polarities by themselves..
OR something else, that would let me keep my weapon as strong as newer weapons are.
I want to work on my weapon, and keep it strong. I dont want to keep changing to weapons i dont like, just because they are stronger..

[uPDATE]
I wasnt clear enough, so i will use an example.
You get some low tier cheap weapon (gorgon?), its good, but when you progress to tier 6 you can get something more expensive, and harder to acquire, OR spend time and resources on your weapon instead, and upgrade your weapon to higher tier.

This way higher tier weapons arent exactly the same as first guns you get, but if you love your gun, you spend just as much or even more time upgrading it to a higher tier.

This way noone get good guns cheap. To get good gun you have to work for it. This way new weapons are worth getting, but if someone really likes his  weapon, he can keep it competitive.

Edited September 19, 2013 by Vladokapuh

[OUTAKE]

I think the devs are trying to get us to use alot of dif weapons and warframes. i dont let them push me around to much with there asking us to play dif things to get mastry. I got put 5 forma into my ignis and now it got a huge buff, so i think they will even things out after they put items into the game. nurfs and buffs will be had by all. but in the end it will all be the same

[Lady_Khaos]

[Vladokapuh]

yeah, forma soma 5 times and compare with others. They said that higher tier weapons will be more rewarding, They should not. They should have something special about them, but should not be stronger by themselves.
Equal polarities should mean equal power.

[Volt_Cruelerz]

The argument of sidegrades vs upgrades was a long and hard war on the forums, but eventually Scott basically settled it in a livestream by saying that they're doing upgrades.

[TwiceDead]

Weapons shouldn't scale vertically by a huge amount, I agree. 

Horizontal Progression is where it's at. 

[Kinperor]

I myself was broken-hearted when they released Soma and learned that my triple-forma'ed Grakata was rendered obsolete by the new hooker.

 

Well WHATEVER, I'll forma my Grakata a fourth time and I will delve in my obsolescence. 

 

CRITKATA FOREVER BAYBAY

[ZephRG]

Vertical progression is fine when it gives you more options instead of making previous options obsolete. Anything else is just an insult to players who invested a lot of time and money on an ultimately inferior option (I feel you fellow Grakata fans, but it's so hard to pass up "Grakata but better"). You wouldn't even have to remove the mastery system, just change the perk it gives and not handle it the worst possible way.

 

The whole "working as intended" debacle has proved in the past that DE isn't immune to making bad calls (or reconsidering them when people make strong points against them), but this time a lot of people seem to be supporting them and I'm not convinced they're doing it for the right reasons. The "no nerfs ever" crowd is especially toxic and it sickens me that DE seems to actually be listening to them (except when the game becomes literally impossible to lose like with Ember/Trinity).

Edited September 18, 2013 by ZephRG

[Alphascrub]

yeah, forma soma 5 times and compare with others. They said that higher tier weapons will be more rewarding, They should not. They should have something special about them, but should not be stronger by themselves.

Equal polarities should mean equal power.

You Braton should never compare to my Flux rifle, forma's or not. That simple. Not saying it is in anyway right now, just giving an example.

[ZephRG]

You Braton should never compare to my Flux rifle, forma's or not. That simple. Not saying it is in anyway right now, just giving an example.

 

Why not? "It should be stronger because it's more expensive" or "It should be stronger because it requires more mastery" are the exact points we're arguing against.

[Vladokapuh]

Isnt using a nice lazor or flamethrower instead of a normal non special rifle nice enough? higher tier weapons are cooler, and more unique, and that should be it imo. Give them more polarieties by default so they are worth more, and who wants to, will work more on older weapons and will make them useful too.

[Alphascrub]

Why not? "It should be stronger because it's more expensive" or "It should be stronger because it requires more mastery" are the exact points we're arguing against.

Because you can buy your braton for a small sum of credits. I had to craft my Flux rifle. I put work into mine, you blew up a few ships and killed some dude named Vor finance yours. Mine took more work, time and effort, yours took and hour of shooting guys in green body armor. Should I not be rewarded for my investment? Should death ray not be better than a short barrel rifle? Its not like yours doesn't have some differences, like its effective range, but in the role that my rifle plays, its way way better, else what would be the point of even researching it?

[Alphascrub]

Isnt using a nice lazor or flamethrower instead of a normal non special rifle nice enough? higher tier weapons are cooler, and more unique, and that should be it imo. Give them more polarieties by default so they are worth more, and who wants to, will work more on older weapons and will make them useful too.

No. Why would I even bother wasting time on weapons that weren't worth the investment? Don't give me, its part of the game crap because the truth is, you need to answer that question yourself.

[Jandor]

I wouldn't mind some vertical progression, but horizontal is better for the most part.

 

Grinner/Corpus weapons: low tier - Tenno weapons: mid tier - Vandal/Wraith weapons: mid+/high tier - Clantech/Prime weapons: high tier. And then you'd have a whole bunch of variety within those tiers, that IMHO would be the best way.

In the future I'd like to see Tenno weapons be upgradable into Prime equipment with the proper parts and blueprints, and very long term I'd like to see some of the Clantech require Grinner or Corpus weapons as research requirements.

 

The stock Braton shouldn't be as good as the Dera/Flux Rifle, but the Brandal should be on almost the same level and the Braton Prime should definately be comparable.

 

Edit: You'd could also make the tiers have slightly different focuses, Grinner and Corpus weapons would be all about bullet spam and blunt damage, Tenno weapons would be precise scalpel like weapons with good chance of crits, Clantech would be weird and wonderful varients of stock faction equipment, and Primes would be basically damage upgrades for Tenno weapons.

Edited September 19, 2013 by Jandor

[Vladokapuh]

And pretty much what you have said means, that if i spent much time and resources on my braton, it should be just as good as your flux, because ive spent time and resources on it. Pretty much what i have said earlier, and this is using your words.

[zombaio]

Vertical progression is fine when it gives you more options instead of making previous options obsolete.

This^

[Histori]

Old weapons will be weak, so they can add new weapon that is much stronger and you will spend your Forma.

That is like the things are going in this game.

I liked Gorgon back in CB before nerf, now we got Soma.

Edited September 19, 2013 by histori

[fatpig84]

That why we are waiting for armor re-work...

If it work as I interpreted a lot of old weapons will be saved.

[Vladokapuh]

Old weapons will be weak, so they can add new weapon that is much stronger and you will spend your Forma.

That is like the things are going in this game.

I liked Gorgon back in CB before nerf, now we got Soma.

I would actually have to spend more forma on older weapon, not on newer one.

[Tattutattikawa]

Nature of progress... nothing worse then re skinned equality. No game you start with BFG

[Voidcrash]

MK-II [insert Weapon Here] skin

 

Boom! Problem mostly solved!

[Vladokapuh]

MK-II [insert Weapon Here] skin

 

Boom! Problem mostly solved!

Well... yes, make it a skin which adds damage, fire rate or w/e weapon is based on, and problem is solved imo

Would be quite simple to do too

[Duralumin]

Weapon balance is 100% fine because DE believe in tiers.

It is okay for older weapons to be inferior because reasons.

[Vladokapuh]

Nope, its discouraging, i dont want to put forma into my weapon, because it will get outdated soon, and i want to stay as strong as possible.
Upgrading lower tier weapon to higher tier would make sense, and would be fair for evryone.