Rejuvination/physique Mod Suggestion.

[Estred]

Currently we have 2 "Defensive" Mods. Given how damage goes and may still go after the update. I feel both need a bit of tweaking.

 

Physique currently is 15% Max HP which is less than Rank 1 Vitality which is frankly pathetic. I think it should be half what Vitality is (20% per rank). So max Rank it would give 120% HP to the team, this is now a useful mod as it doubles a squishy frames HP at the cost of an offense slot for your frame, which opens more team-play.

 

Rejuvenation currently is .8 heal rate or just under 1HP per second. That really is nothing at the least it should be 1 heal rate. I would prefer it was 1 percent heal rate meaning 1hp/100hp ration. So a Warframe with 1000 HP would heal at 10hp a second which at high levels is not enough to keep you alive very long once shields are gone but it will help you last a bit longer if you are running. By making it percent based it means those who equip it on durable frames will get more benefit from it but it also will help the team more.

 

Thoughts?

[Aratir]

120 % hp for max rank multiple it with 4 because everyone can equip one so 480 % hp is too much, 50% at max rank is more fair and 200 % with 4 people

[Anorax_Xarona]

I'm gonna say totally YES.  Physique, while stackable, is kind of useless.  I put Steel Charge on my Rhino instead of that because rather than have a negligible HP bonus, I can just punch the things that are in my face.
And Rejuvenation is... nice... but yeah, I agree with the percentage regeneration.  I would say personally 1% regen at max, because even THAT is a lot for high health frames, plus stackability...

[Estred]

120 % hp for max rank multiple it with 4 because everyone can equip one so 480 % hp is too much, 50% at max rank is more fair and 200 % with 4 people

I had thought about that but really if you want to drop all your teams utility on a huge HP pool, who is to say that is a bad thing?

Looking at it this way we will take Saryn for example because of her high base HP.
Base: 450
Base+Vitality(440%): 1980
Base+Vit+Vigor(120%): 2520
Base+Vit+Vigor+old Physique x4(60%): 2790
Base+Vit+Vig+new Physique x4(480%): 4725

So the highest HP in the game would be 4725 if your whole team devoted their Aura's to it. Most player's probably will not do this but I do see your point. Factor in Saryn's Armor of 125 but with max Steel Fiber (110%) makes it 262 Armor.

Hitpoints Lost = 100/ (Armor + 100) so that is with Saryn 100/362 or if my interpretation is right 27 damage for every 100 points of damage take or 73% damage reduction. This means with full HP stacked up to the sky Sayrn will take 175,000 damage to knock her down. A level 120 Infested Ancient can donkey Punch a 1000hp Rhino down with at least a 50% Steel Fiber through his Iron Skin. 1000hp and 225 Armor means he has the equivilant of 3333 HP and you add his Focus'd Iron Skin of 1560 damage. So that Ancient is punching for at minimum 4893 damage. If you max Steel Fiber on Rhino that is 5726. That is assuming the arbitray 1000 HP. With max Vitality though Rhino has 1320 (if the formula is X multiplied by percent but i think its (X*1+Health %) which makes it 1620 which means roughly the Ancient is punching for ~8000 damage a hit. So yes 480% may be OP if you stack it all the way.

Very well, I concede your point as being a good thing to consider. Perhaps 60% per mod would be more acceptable which is 1/2 of the original suggestion. Four of them would only stack to 240% HP rather than 480% HP which would bring down Saryn's effective HP by a massive quantity. Both she and Rhino would greatly benefit from Physique though with this change.

As Anorax_Xarona just pointed out too if you stack Rejuvination as a percentage regen that is 4% HP Regen or 4hp/100 ratio which is 40/1000 which hey now you have a lot of healing for devoting your whole team to it. Basically it allows teams more diversity within aura choices rather than having to use select mods because they are inherently better such as the case with Energy Siphon or Rifle Amp.

Thank you both for the feedback. Edited September 19, 2013 by Estred

[Shroudb]

I had thought about that but really if you want to drop all your teams utility on a huge HP pool, who is to say that is a bad thing?

Looking at it this way we will take Saryn for example because of her high base HP.

Base: 450

Base+Vitality(440%): 1980

Base+Vit+Vigor(120%): 2520

Base+Vit+Vigor+old Physique x4(60%): 2790

Base+Vit+Vig+new Physique x4(480%): 4725

So the highest HP in the game would be 4725 if your whole team devoted their Aura's to it. Most player's probably will not do this but I do see your point. Factor in Saryn's Armor of 125 but with max Steel Fiber (110%) makes it 262 Armor.

Hitpoints Lost = 100/ (Armor + 100) so that is with Saryn 100/362 or if my interpretation is right 27 damage for every 100 points of damage take or 73% damage reduction. This means with full HP stacked up to the sky Sayrn will take 175,000 damage to knock her down. A level 120 Infested Ancient can donkey Punch a 1000hp Rhino down with at least a 50% Steel Fiber through his Iron Skin. 1000hp and 225 Armor means he has the equivilant of 3333 HP and you add his Focus'd Iron Skin of 1560 damage. So that Ancient is punching for at minimum 4893 damage. If you max Steel Fiber on Rhino that is 5726. That is assuming the arbitray 1000 HP. With max Vitality though Rhino has 1320 (if the formula is X multiplied by percent but i think its (X*1+Health %) which makes it 1620 which means roughly the Ancient is punching for ~8000 damage a hit. So yes 480% may be OP if you stack it all the way.

Very well, I concede your point as being a good thing to consider. Perhaps 60% per mod would be more acceptable which is 1/2 of the original suggestion. Four of them would only stack to 240% HP rather than 480% HP which would bring down Saryn's effective HP by a massive quantity. Both she and Rhino would greatly benefit from Physique though with this change.

As Anorax_Xarona just pointed out too if you stack Rejuvination as a percentage regen that is 4% HP Regen or 4hp/100 ratio which is 40/1000 which hey now you have a lot of healing for devoting your whole team to it. Basically it allows teams more diversity within aura choices rather than having to use select mods because they are inherently better such as the case with Energy Siphon or Rifle Amp.

Thank you both for the feedback.

 

vitality isn't working as that. it multiplies the base health (lvl0 health) of the frame.

 

so for a frame with 450max health (150starting health) he would have:

150*4,4 +450 = 1110

physique max lvl is 15% of 150 and that is 23hp...

Edited September 19, 2013 by Shroudb

[Estred]

vitality isn't working as that. it multiplies the base health (lvl0 health) of the frame.

 

so for a frame with 450max health (150starting health) he would have:

150*4,4 +450 = 1110

physique max lvl is 15% of that = 166,5 health

 

let's say that a team is compromised of 2 frames with 450hp and 2 with 300hp:

100*4,4 +300= 740

physique gives 111 health.

 

so the aura gives a total 111*2 + 166,5*2 = 555hp to the team.

as a referance, for a 100hp base frame, max level vitality is 440 hp and for a 150hp base frame max level vitality is 660hp

 

still imo kinda weak, but not so far worse as rejuvenation which is total garbage (if 4 players stack max level rejuvenation you need exactly 6minutes OF DOING NOTHING (since damage cancels it) to fill your health bar...)

I see, well then thanks for clarifying how the system was working on that for me. If that was the case assuming a 100hp as your base that is 440 for Vitality and 480 from the new Physique if your whole team stacks it up it up. Then you have 120 from Vigor. So a 100hp Warframe with the maximum HP Mods available would have 100 + 1020 from those mods then whatever they get from normal levels correct? If that is how it works then defenitely 120% Max HP as an Aura is not broken.

 

Your math is why I suggested Rejuvination be maxed out at 1% Max HP Regen. That way you need exactly 100 Seconds of uniterrupted combat to regen your full HP Bar rather than as you pointed out 360 Seconds. Maybe it could go up to 1.5% at Max Rank which makes it take 66 seconds which is a pretty generous regen rate.

Edited September 19, 2013 by Estred

[Shroudb]

I see, well then thanks for clarifying how the system was working on that for me. If that was the case assuming a 100hp as your base that is 440 for Vitality and 480 from the new Physique if your whole team stacks it up it up. Then you have 120 from Vigor. So a 100hp Warframe with the maximum HP Mods available would have 100 + 1020 from those mods then whatever they get from normal levels correct? If that is how it works then defenitely 120% Max HP as an Aura is not broken.

 

Your math is why I suggested Rejuvination be maxed out at 1% Max HP Regen. That way you need exactly 100 Seconds of uniterrupted combat to regen your full HP Bar rather than as you pointed out 360 Seconds. Maybe it could go up to 1.5% at Max Rank which makes it take 66 seconds which is a pretty generous regen rate.

i failed in my math the first time, see my edited post. it IS crap, it gives 15hp for 100hp base frames and 22.5 for 150hp ones because i forgot to calculate the auras from base.

[Estred]

i failed in my math the first time, see my edited post. it IS crap, it gives 15hp for 100hp base frames and 22.5 for 150hp ones because i forgot to calculate the auras from base.

It's alright. I think between us both we have proven that you can really only push 1500-2000 HP Maximum even with a full 480% from the new Physique Suggestion. Thanks all the same for helping me with my math, even if we both made mistakes.

[Estred]

Shame bump, I feel that these mods need attention.

[noneuklid]

It's hard for me to imagine a health amount other than 'functionally infinite' that would make me want to use Physique.  If it did some other interesting thing/s, like 41% poison resistance (additive with itself and Antitoxin) or increased the effectiveness and/or drop rate of Health Orbs or, I dunno, made my Warframe 15% physically larger... maybe.

 

As it stands, though, nah.  Even if it doubled the final health capacity of each Warframe for each instance on the team, I'd only consider it for a fringe Trinity build at best.  The only way to make me want straight-up health is to make it mandatory for a certain fight mechanic... and, well, that's just obnoxious design.