Reku1 Posted September 19, 2013 Author Share Posted September 19, 2013 For some reason people are using the conclaves number systems are a legitimate reason to pick who gets to go on missions and who doesnt regardless of their actual skill level or not. Its been that way before the conclaves depending on your frame. The conclaves itself, if used between friends and clans mates, is fun and a good break from the grind so not it doesnt need to be thrown away. LV =/= Skill. You can be the most skillful player in the game, but if you're running a lv2 loki/excalibur in a t3 void mission, you'd sooner run out of ammo with your weaker weapons then you would kill everything with skill. Like it or not, lv matters in this game. It's why planets have suggested lv's, it's why weapon are mastery locked. And it's why i like reflecting players based on their conclave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KvotheTheArcane1 Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 (edited) LV =/= Skill. You can be the most skillful player in the game, but if you're running a lv2 loki/excalibur in a t3 void mission, you'd sooner run out of ammo with your weaker weapons then you would kill everything with skill. Like it or not, lv matters in this game. It's why planets have suggested lv's, it's why weapon are mastery locked. And it's why i like reflecting players based on their conclave. However, sometimes you DON'T need levels, hell I could be useful on T3 defense with an unranked frost (because of auras), All I need to take is snowglobe, same with nyx, all I need is chaos/MC, same with vauban (to an extent) with bastille, or nekros with terrify (as long as they get close like infested, or moas), or with desecrate on survival, or nova, with m prime, or trinity with blessing/eng vamp (and toss it on a heavy), or rhino, with rhino roar, or or saryn (before the "nerf/fix") with venom, or with molt, or with miasma, or with mag, pulling/crushing enemies, or banshee with sonar/sonic boom. Sometimes level DOESN'T matter. Edited September 19, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reku1 Posted September 19, 2013 Author Share Posted September 19, 2013 However, sometimes you DON'T need levels, hell I could be useful on T3 defense with an unranked frost (because of auras), All I need to take is snowglobe, same with nyx, all I need is chaos, same with vauban (to an extent) with bastille, or nekros with terrify (as long as they get close like infested, or moas), or with desecrate on survival. Sometimes level DOESN'T matter. And i would expect you to die a lot more than someone who's ranked and modded. And when i refer to lv's i'm including weapon lv's not just warframes. You can snowglobe all you want, it's not going to stop and ancient from coming up and smacking you dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinnyb Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 (edited) To those of you who are against Conclave because it's "exclusionary", why do you feel that every veteran player is required to carry newbies around? I know none of you have actually said this outright, but it is what many are implying. Yes, there will always be noobs that need experienced players to show them the ropes. "How will they learn?" "You were a noob once." etc. However, after playing with and carrying low leveled players for 7 or 8 mastery levels, why is it a bad thing for me to want to run a high tier mission with high tier players? This is what I would call endgame at this point: you take 4 people with their best weapons and mods and go for the most challenging content you can find. Many of you will counter this with, "Find some high level friends and just run with them." Why? Why can't I just jump into a PuG knowing that there's a rating system in place to match me with players that have invested a similar amount of time into this game? Higher levels of Outer Terminus, for example, can be extremely challenging and having even one weak player can hinder your entire team. While you can carry them, it's not enjoyable pulling someone else's weight. In short, I think Conclave rating should remain. If you don't think it's a representation of skill or achievement, then that's fine. You can just ignore it and continue playing with any player, regardless of their level. The Conclave system helps the more "hardcore" players find the optimized, high tier teams that they crave. Edited September 19, 2013 by skinnyb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorez Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 It's optional, and will never be the main aim of the game. People will still complain. That's why I hate most of humankind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KvotheTheArcane1 Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 (edited) And i would expect you to die a lot more than someone who's ranked and modded. And when i refer to lv's i'm including weapon lv's not just warframes. You can snowglobe all you want, it's not going to stop and ancient from coming up and smacking you dead. Why would you use snowglobe on an infested mission? Or if it is T3, that's a priority focus to take out ancients, just like moas are, as both like to get close in, rather than stand back and shoot. In short, I think Conclave rating should remain. If you don't think it's a representation of skill or achievement, then that's fine. You can just ignore it and continue playing with any player, regardless of their level. The Conclave system helps the more "hardcore" players find the optimized, high tier teams that they crave. That's kinda the opposite of PuGs... that's an organized group. Edited September 19, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabadath5 Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Short answer to title, they are afraid of loosing Afraid of losing the game to all the shootah peh ve peeh cowadoody mlg's out there and having the game shifting from PvE into a PvP/PvE hybrid that's gonna annihilate the game's uniqueness and turn it into another whine-storm regarding weapon/warframe balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FonFabre Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Why would you use snowglobe on an infested mission? Or if it is T3, that's a priority focus to take out ancients, just like moas are, as both like to get close in, rather than stand back and shoot. That's kinda the opposite of PuGs... that's an organized group. I mean once you step out of that globe.... Oh and the railgun moa can shoot through the globe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reku1 Posted September 19, 2013 Author Share Posted September 19, 2013 Why would you use snowglobe on an infested mission? Or if it is T3, that's a priority focus to take out ancients, just like moas are, as both like to get close in, rather than stand back and shoot. That's kinda the opposite of PuGs... that's an organized group. I'm pretty sure someone else just had an entire forum post about using snowglobe in infested. Anyway, just because it's a priority, doesn't mean its going to never happen. If you go in with no redirection/vitality or something to keep you alive, then you will die. You can't expect and entire team to stop fighting other enemies and focus specifically on ancient/moas just for your sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KvotheTheArcane1 Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 (edited) I mean once you step out of that globe.... Oh and the railgun moa can shoot through the globe. Why would you being stepping out of the globe unless you have to? Frost's job is to keep it up, and only leaving to to collect energy (although we do have energy consumables now), then sprinting right back in. As for railgun moas, again, priority target. I'm pretty sure someone else just had an entire forum post about using snowglobe in infested. Anyway, just because it's a priority, doesn't mean its going to never happen. If you go in with no redirection/vitality or something to keep you alive, then you will die. You can't expect and entire team to stop fighting other enemies and focus specifically on ancient/moas just for your sake. A logical person would see in T3 defense that heavy gunners/corpus crewmen, or grineer would be fighting at range, which means the only dangerous enemy is the ones that run in close, which on T3 are moas, and ancients. As for snowglobe on infested, don't. Just never. It's not THAT useful compared to something like avalanche which stops them completely, or another vauban. Edited September 19, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FonFabre Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 (edited) only leaving to to collect energy (although we do have energy consumables now). Not everyone uses energy consumables :P Edited September 19, 2013 by FonFabre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrayptorCraw Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 You don't have to play it! You don't gain any cosmetic items or even regular items! Rating is meaningless at this point! The game isn't evolved around PVP so it's extremely imbalanced int the first place, since it is a PVE orientated game! IT IS JUST FOR FUN. Stop complaining already. THIS IS NOT WOW ARENA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelonious Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 -snip- Agreed. Also, I would so love that conclave was incorporated to pve as a system to prevent leeching: you shoudn't be able to join a high level mission "naked". I had the worst experiences of my 1000 hours game time in Kiste with 3 pugs joining, trying to kill waves of lvl60 grineers with their unranked weapons. "But I need to level it up". /facepalm You end up with half the kills, half the xp, half the mods and me sweating like a pig trying to keep the pod alive. Good times. Co-op at its finest moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grulos Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 It actually is kinda fun. Would like to see 4vs4 or deathmatch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reku1 Posted September 19, 2013 Author Share Posted September 19, 2013 You don't have to play it! You don't gain any cosmetic items or even regular items! Rating is meaningless at this point! The game isn't evolved around PVP so it's extremely imbalanced int the first place, since it is a PVE orientated game! IT IS JUST FOR FUN. Stop complaining already. THIS IS NOT WOW ARENA. I'm not even arguing about pvp dude....i'm taking about comparing players conclave to choose people for void key missions. I don't think you even read the thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KvotheTheArcane1 Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Not everyone uses energy consumables :P Are you just trying to find little points that COULD be wrong and ignore everything else? A properly set up group, minus the one "newb" would have all sorts of consumables, weapons, and skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FonFabre Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Are you just trying to find little points that COULD be wrong and ignore everything else? A properly set up group, minus the one "newb" would have all sorts of consumables, weapons, and skills. A properly set up group using unmodded frost? o.o oh and calm down please I'm not attacking you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KvotheTheArcane1 Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 A properly set up group using unmodded frost? o.o oh and calm down please I'm not attacking you. Upset? Not upset, just using caps for emphasis (the same way some people might use underlines) And yeah, we're assuming a properly set up group, minus the one frost/nyx/etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reku1 Posted September 19, 2013 Author Share Posted September 19, 2013 Upset? Not upset, just using caps for emphasis (the same way some people might use underlines) And yeah, we're assuming a properly set up group, minus the one frost/nyx/etc If the one frost is excluded from being properly set up, then why would you assume he has consumables for energy and that he wouldn't step out for energy, get shot and die forcing the team to go help him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KvotheTheArcane1 Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 If the one frost is excluded from being properly set up, then why would you assume he has consumables for energy and that he wouldn't step out for energy, get shot and die forcing the team to go help him? Why? Because I assumed he farmed frost. Although, if it's just a frost + low level guns with a high enough aura for snowglobe. And note, I never said HE had consumables, the team in general does (since they apply to the team, not one person now). And might he step out? Sure, but with the nyx/frost combo that works so well in T3, the nyx pops chaos, frost gets time to sprint around and collect energy. Conclave doesn't mean S#&$, it's a gear score, it's just something to say who has the most costly mods equipped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinderain Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Because it's PvP and that makes people cry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinnyb Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 That's kinda the opposite of PuGs... that's an organized group. PuG = Pick up Group = A group of players that you find on a whim. Just because we have high tier weapons and mods doesn't necessarily mean we're an "organized group". Being an organized group usually implies a level of predetermined strategy and synergy. I'm not asking for that, only that your weapons and mods be on par with mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KvotheTheArcane1 Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 (edited) PuG = Pick up Group = A group of players that you find on a whim. Just because we have high tier weapons and mods doesn't necessarily mean we're an "organized group". Being an organized group usually implies a level of predetermined strategy and synergy. I'm not asking for that, only that your weapons and mods be on par with mine. I always understand pug = pub = random group of players. You're talking about an "organized" group of players, i.e. not being stubborn about using what you want to, but changing to say, a frost to fit the mission, or a nekros, or a nova, or a nyx, etc. Conclave is really meaningless as a gear score though, I mean, necro's soul punch is like 120 or so. Excal prime can easily score 500+ without any extra forma. Conclave score is a simple attempt to balance PvP without any real effort (and it kinda works I guess). It is NOT a gear score for PvE. Edited September 19, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOYALTOTHEGANK Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 (edited) Because it's PvP and that makes people cry. x 1000 Edited September 19, 2013 by Ninjaraijin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VScipii26 Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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